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My hubby, my sweetheart, my BFF... he cheated...

Old 01-18-2011, 12:16 PM
  # 161 (permalink)  
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The problem as I see it, is that your drunken, coked-up husband committed adultery and the sober husband is the one who feels remorse (or more likely fear) for the drunken husband's actions, has promised to stay faithful to you for the rest of eternity, and to seek help for his addictions.

What is happening here is that one person (the sober one) is taking responsibility for another person's actions (the drunk one). While they reside in the same body, they are not the same people. You've seen the difference between these two people plain as day. That would be like me apologizing for an act that someone else committed and swearing that it will not happen again. I have no control over somebody else's actions. And your sober husband has no control over your drunken husband's actions.

The sober husband may well be a fabulous friend, a great person, and a great father, but the drunken, coked-up husband is not. And the drunken husband has not apologized to you for his infidelity, nor has he promised to change his behavior one bit. So, when your husband has a weak moment and gives in to his addiction, as happens frequently with addicts, that weak person--the cheater, the liar, the one who will do things that the sober husband wouldn't dream of doing is in charge again.

Until the drunken half of your husband understands and takes responsibility for his actions, this pattern will continue. This is the nature of addiction.

You have the ability to choose what you will and won't tolerate in your life. But a 2-year-old child does not. And a future newborn does not. They deserve two parents who are always there for them. Who take responsibility for their actions. And who don't choose other women, booze, and drugs over fatherhood.

It may seem like an easy decision to forgive and forget now, but alcoholism is a progressive disease. It only gets worse; never better. And if you continue to overlook the seriousness of his behavior as your children grow and as his disease progresses, a drunken man may be in charge of your minor children, and he may drive under the influence with them. If you can't make those tough decisions that will keep your children safe, then the state may step in to do it for you.

So, the decision whether to stay or to leave is, indeed, up to you. But it's important to look at the big picture and consider what might be in store for your children if you continue to overlook the seriousness of his addiction and rely on hope for change.

As one smart poster said a few years ago, "hope is not a plan."
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:37 PM
  # 162 (permalink)  
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Lushwell - thanks, I guess. Both my hubby and I bring different things into our relationship. And there's something in his personality that makes him think whatever great things happen for him, he's bound to lose them and doesn't deserve them. He's improved a lot and is starting to believe he's worthy and wonderful and I love him for who he is.

FormerDoormat - I know it's 2 guys. I don't want my husband to promise me 'the other guy' (the drunk) won't do coke or cheat on me. The only thing he promised to do and the only thing I hold him accountable for is not drinking, so not becoming 'the other guy'. That's all he can control. I don't know what else to say.
And I do believe he will change, isn't AlAnon all about hope? That's all they wanted me to admit at the forst meeting I went to - that I had hope. And I didn't back then. I do now.
And although I don't have a guarantee he won't drink again, I cannot put my and my daughter's life on hold, or our marriage on hold. I'll see where we are in a few months and we will then decide whether to have another kid or not. I can't hold off and only have another child after he's been sober for 10 years. It's the same uncertainty. I know the risk is higher in an alcoholic's case, but when deciding to have a child, no couple has any certainty they'll live happily ever after.
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:44 PM
  # 163 (permalink)  
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Alanon is hope for change for you (and me); not the alcoholic. AA is for the addict. Alanon is for the friends and family of addicts. The theory is that when the friends and family of addicts change their behavior, the addict HAS to change their behavior as well because their friends/family are no longer inadvertently enabling them to continue the addiction. Understand? If not, attending more meetings will help you understand.

And there is no such thing as happily ever after. There is just the ebb and flow of life.
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:54 PM
  # 164 (permalink)  
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FormerDoormat - if you see my previous posts you'll see, that I changed. I have a clear boundary now and he knows he can't cross it or that's it for us. The ball's in his court now. I'm good and happy with myself. Don't mean to sound snotty or anything, but I truly am comfortable with myself, my life and choices. He has yet to get there and I'm there for him should he need my help.
And yeah, Alanon... I don't think I'll warm up to them. I'll try to go again, but now him going to his meetings and to his counseling is definitely our priority and with the baby and only one car - we have to choose. Also, I get to watch lame movies we'd never watch together when he's at meetings, so it's a win-win.
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:38 PM
  # 165 (permalink)  
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This is my first post but really wanted to chime in because I am a guy that prob knows a lot about this kind of stuff and have been through alot (on the wrong end).

I know you keep checking this thread for anyone who has had positive outcomes from something like this but it's easy to see why you can't. You should realize there are around 50-100 people viewing this section at all times and this is one of the largest threads right now. Don't you think people would be jumping in to share a success story? You've heard about 20-30 bad stories and maybe 1 or 2 "good stories" that weren't even first hand.

Obviously this comes from someone who went through this in a bad way but I am just pointing out what everyone else is trying to say to you. You are not in a forum where everyone is fine and dandy. We have all been through tough times, and a big one is relationship problems. What I am sayin is that you are looking for comforting responses in the wrong place, so take it for what it's worth.
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:40 PM
  # 166 (permalink)  
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I relate to having hope cutelittlewife BUT I have learned that what I have hope in may change. My name (24Years) represents how long we have been married. My AH’s addiction didn’t start becoming obvious until after many years of marriage.

My hope that my husband would prefer family over booze has changed to hope that my children and I will make the best of a situation we can’t change (and that my children will never be addicts...so far so good).
My hope that my husband’s love for me would win over his love for booze has changed to my belief that I can have a wonderful life without him despite that I never wanted to consider this and hope in a bright future despite his choices.

…and so on.

It has been painful to accept that certain hopes and dreams may never occur, but I recognize the importance to continue to have hopes and dreams.
Overcoming addiction is a full-time commitment and hard work. Many think they are ready to make the change only to find that addiction wins out over and over again. I think it’s more than reasonable to say that the average addict has no idea what they are in for when they tell you and me they are quitting for good. Let his actions speak to you because no matter what is said, addiction is way more powerful than his best intentions.

Truth be told…I still hope my husband will overcome addiction but he has had ample time to show if he wants it as much as I do, and no *miracle* has taken place. Nothing I have said or done has been powerful enough to get him to overcome his addiction (despite his many *attempts*) (for me, it affirms the three C's).
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:40 PM
  # 167 (permalink)  
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oh my. I have been following this thread and feel the need to interject. CLW, I get you and your situation and have lived through it. Others close to the situation, mainly XAH's family, tried telling me the same thing everyone here is trying to tell you. Reading through this thread for the last week or so has been eye opening for me. My XAH did the same things (minus the coke) that your husband did. I see now that I sounded a lot like you sound (or at least, what I am hearing) I think if you read back through each of your posts on this thread, you may see what I am saying. Please, please, please do not take this as a personal attack on you........but what I see is what others are seeing.......you are making excuses for him (he was demoted, his sponsor relapsed, times were hard, etc.) Yes, these are true life challenges.......used as an excuse. I will tell you, my XAH was so sorry, so loving, such a good, cute father and all the rest too. He also got better at hiding what he was doing. Please look out for yourself and your daughter. Stay on your toes. The next cut to your happiness and trust will be the deepest.
Again, please don't take this as a personal attack, or me being mean in any way. I am sharing because my story, in the early years, mirrors yours. I understand your thought process through this. I am just saying-keep the hope alive if you are willing to accept these things, but also protect yourself and your daughter. Keep your "eyes and ears open".
M
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:40 PM
  # 168 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by cutelittlewife View Post
FormerDoormat - if you see my previous posts you'll see, that I changed. I have a clear boundary now and he knows he can't cross it or that's it for us. The ball's in his court now. I'm good and happy with myself. Don't mean to sound snotty or anything, but I truly am comfortable with myself, my life and choices. He has yet to get there and I'm there for him should he need my help.
And yeah, Alanon... I don't think I'll warm up to them. I'll try to go again, but now him going to his meetings and to his counseling is definitely our priority and with the baby and only one car - we have to choose. Also, I get to watch lame movies we'd never watch together when he's at meetings, so it's a win-win.
clw, believe it or not, most of us have been where you are. Not with the adultery or coke in my case (to my knowledge, anyway - anything is possible in the course of the dishonest life I was inhabiting, though), but with drinking and bad decisions and little children.

Many have seen contrition and shame and swearing it would never happen again. And it doesn't have to happen again. It may not. We all want you to be right, for your marriage's sake and for the sake of your baby daughter.

But please, please, please make YOURSELF the priority. Not his getting help or his counseling. That's what happens in all alcoholic relationships - they become all about the Alcoholic. He gets the car, the time away from the family, the counseling, the attention, the focus, the hope, the help, the prayers, the support. And he may relapse or he may not, but in the meantime YOU (the non-alcoholic) put all your needs on the back-burner, waiting for him to come home.

That isn't fair to you or your child, and I promise you, that should the addiction overtake him (again), you will be in a really sorry position.

Al-anon is for YOU. To grow strong. To take care of yourself. To enable you to not just set those boundaries, but enforce them should the need arise.

Please don't dismiss what we all know from our own experience.
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:57 PM
  # 169 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by stella27 View Post
clw, believe it or not, most of us have been where you are. Not with the adultery or coke in my case (to my knowledge, anyway - anything is possible in the course of the dishonest life I was inhabiting, though), but with drinking and bad decisions and little children.

Many have seen contrition and shame and swearing it would never happen again. And it doesn't have to happen again. It may not. We all want you to be right, for your marriage's sake and for the sake of your baby daughter.

But please, please, please make YOURSELF the priority. Not his getting help or his counseling. That's what happens in all alcoholic relationships - they become all about the Alcoholic. He gets the car, the time away from the family, the counseling, the attention, the focus, the hope, the help, the prayers, the support. And he may relapse or he may not, but in the meantime YOU (the non-alcoholic) put all your needs on the back-burner, waiting for him to come home.

That isn't fair to you or your child, and I promise you, that should the addiction overtake him (again), you will be in a really sorry position.

Al-anon is for YOU. To grow strong. To take care of yourself. To enable you to not just set those boundaries, but enforce them should the need arise.

Please don't dismiss what we all know from our own experience.
Best post on this thread, IMHO.

That's because, looking back with my 20/20 hindsight, I see myself and all the mistakes I made being played out again right before my eyes.

I didn't need help--he was the one with the problem. If "we" could just get his problem under control, then "we" would be okay. Me? My only problem was that I married an alcoholic. Other than that, I was just fine, thank you very much.

I only wish I would have realized sooner about taking care of myself, letting him own his own stuff, and dealing with my own stuff. I could have avoided much pain.

But, hey, we all learn our lessons at our own pace......

L
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:13 PM
  # 170 (permalink)  
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I have many slogans in my blog...come and check them out....

here is the serenity prayer

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...on-slogan.html
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:33 PM
  # 171 (permalink)  
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Oh, I forgot to mention, there are many ways to make yourself a priority. Alanon isn't for everyone (me included). Personal therapy changed my life.

L
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:01 PM
  # 172 (permalink)  
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Hi CLW - I've never posted on this side of the forum - but something about your posts made me want to chime in.

I'm in recovery myself and I have a wonderful fiance who's been really supportive and no words can express how much I love her. But, even though I love her more than anything, that didn't stop me from getting drunk over and over again and breaking many promises about not touching alcohol. It wasn't until I really really wanted to be sober that I finally took my recovery seriously looked for help and stopped drinking.

The reason I mention all that is because, and forgive me if I missed it, from what I've read your husband doesn't want to drink again because of what he did. From personal experience I know over time guilt disappears and that drink starts to sound like a good idea. Has he said that he wants a sober life or has he stopped drinking because he effed up so bad?

Another thing I noticed was that the priority in both your lives is his sobriety, my question is where on the list of priorities are you and your needs? What are you doing for yourself? His sobriety is his and only his responsibility, it's great to have support from our loved ones like I said I'm truly thankful for my family, but I would never ask, expect, or be ok with my fiance making my sobriety her priority.

You will be in my prayers and I do hope for things to work out for the best.
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:00 AM
  # 173 (permalink)  
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Hi everyone,

Wow, I had no idea my thread was so popular. I really appreciate everyone's input. And just to make things clear - I am not only looking here for success stories, although yes, that was one of the top things on my list. I also wanted to hear people's thoughts so I could try and make sense of what I'm thinking and also see my situation 'from the outside'. And I am finding what I came here for.
I will stand by my decision to make it possible for my husband to stay sober by letting him go to meetings whenever he feels he needs to (and he has been going, sometimes he'd go twice a day). Unfortunately in our case we can't be out of the house at the same time. Which doesn't mean I sit around waiting for him. I have quality 'me' time when he's gone and I've really been enjoying it. I watch lame movies, read books, tonight I'm planning on organizing our 'let's-throw-everything-in-there' drawer.
As for the reason he wants to stay sober - I think what he did just helped him realize how bad it was and how he needs to be serious about the program. I know he has the desire to quit drinking because his life has become unmanageable. He wants to keep his family. Are those reasons enough? I can ask him why else.
I think this whole recent 'sh*tstorm' helped me realize a few things. First of all, to never say never. Also, to not judge things by appearances, and also, stop caring that much about appearances.
I spoke to my counselor yesterday and she helped me realize a few things about my marriage. I wasn't able to say why I loved my husband. I've never needed a reason to, I just love him. She asked about qualities and I could only think of a few, but I'm not good at describing people, I will look into it today and make a list.
I came home and I asked my husband why he loved me. He went on for about 5 minutes straight, saying all the things I never even thought he paid attention to, little things, you know? It was beautiful and I think the first time we've ever had a conversation like that. And that's what made me realize that we never take time to talk about us. I told him I felt like I was giving more than I was getting and the 'I didn't ask you' just doesn't seem right. We have a long way to go from where we are now to a strong marriage we want to be. Where there's a will, there's a way though, right?
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:58 AM
  # 174 (permalink)  
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I am new here, but after reading all of these posts, all I can say is WOW! The combination of cheating, lying, drinking, using coke, etc...and now...regret on his part. So much there. I am wondering if you are getting any counseling? I know that you weren't too comfortable with Alanon - honestly I have never been so I don't know - but it seems you may need to talk to someone professional to sort all of this out and you both may have to go to counseling together. His actions and choices have wounded the relationship and have crushed the trust between you. You are married and have a family and therefore a vested interest in his recovery, but what about the recovery of the relationship and YOUR recovery?

Of course, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I am not married but I have a 3 yr relationship with an alcoholic live-in BF - who can be abusive. I am codependent and as a result of my relationship I have lost a part of myself and am not strong enough (YET) to send him packing. I am going to start counseling and start working on me. I am making myself my first priority which is seriously difficult for me and my codie self. Maybe counseling would be good for you too?! Just a thought.

I wish you all the best!! I admire your commitment to your marriage and your family!!
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Old 01-19-2011, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cutelittlewife View Post
I told him I felt like I was giving more than I was getting and the 'I didn't ask you' just doesn't seem right.
This is huge. It may not seem so, but it is. This is the kind of thing I was getting at. This is a door to the world of answers for you.

It's not about 'giving him another chance,' or any of that. It's about looking deep within and figuring out what you want. And by that I mean who you are and what you want that doesn't involve him or anyone else. Why do you suppose you give so much without being asked? Why do you suppose you can't describe what you love about him?

In my case, it was because my identity was completely dependent on my relationships. I was a wife, mother, employee, but who was I? I had let myself become a 'piece' of others identity and lost my own. I didn't know who I was as a whole and complete entity all to my own.

Maybe reading 'Codependent No More' would be a good way to spend some of that alone time you have.

L
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Old 01-19-2011, 08:06 AM
  # 176 (permalink)  
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LaTeeDa...I couldn't agree more. I do the same thing. I read Codependent No More a few years ago (before I got myself into my current situation) and I think I need to read it several more times. It is so easy to fall off the "independent" wagon and back into codependency. Great post!

CLW...I think you would really benefit from reading this book. It is very enlightening! I am going to dig up my copy and read it ASAP! Thanks LaTeeDa!!!
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:37 AM
  # 177 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa View Post
I was a wife, mother, employee, but who was I?
Some guy said that to me in a communication theory course I took a few years ago when we were introducing ourselves. I never understood what the heck he was talking about. I'm still not at the point where I can define myself without using terms that depend on another person, but at least now I understand that I described what I was rather than who I was.
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:48 AM
  # 178 (permalink)  
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I really don't see myself as codependent. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to do nice things for other people and have them reciprocate. I mean, isn't that why we're in relationships? I've been reading some stuff and if anything, I might be a little narcissistic (come on, look at my nickname lol).
And LaTeeDa - how would you describe yourself now? How do you answer a 'who are you' question in the first place? I guess depends who asks it... Are you supposed to talk about qualities? that's more of a 'what are you like?' I guess?
Please give example.
Codie - thanks for the kind words, I really am dedicated to my marriage and I know so is my hubby. I know that after being sober for 21 months he is definitely capable of doing it for longer if he puts his mind and heart to it and I know he is doing that
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:19 AM
  # 179 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by cutelittlewife View Post
I really don't see myself as codependent. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to do nice things for other people and have them reciprocate. I mean, isn't that why we're in relationships? I've been reading some stuff and if anything, I might be a little narcissistic (come on, look at my nickname lol).
And LaTeeDa - how would you describe yourself now? How do you answer a 'who are you' question in the first place? I guess depends who asks it... Are you supposed to talk about qualities? that's more of a 'what are you like?' I guess?
Please give example.
Codie - thanks for the kind words, I really am dedicated to my marriage and I know so is my hubby. I know that after being sober for 21 months he is definitely capable of doing it for longer if he puts his mind and heart to it and I know he is doing that

to be honest, I thought your username shows that you're dependent on him for your identity, not that you're narcissistic. It sounded to me like you derive your identity from being his wife. "Little" sounds like unimportant and powerless and "cute" like you're concerned with appearances.

I do apologize if this is offensive, I don't mean to be.

You probably think we are all reading way too much into every little thing you say, but we have learned and are learning to question our own motives and decisions - and especially to start seeing teh ones we are unconscious of, but which may be glaring to everyone else.

Your codependent vs. healthy relating question is a good one. I really struggle with that myself and don't know that I can explain it adequately. I do know that you have to be sure that a relationship consists of mutual respect and giving and be conscious of times when you are slipping into an over-giving and compensating and excusing pattern.
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:19 AM
  # 180 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by cutelittlewife View Post
So I've done some more thinking (no surprise here, huh?) about what happened. And you know what my conclusion is? If this horrible event was what was needed for my husband to realize just how bad his addiction is, and if that's what it took for him to never in his life pick up another drink - I am willing to live with it. I now see it as a 'wake up call' for him. He himself said that the fact he was able to do something like this to me and our marriage makes him absolutely loathe alcohol and the idea of putting himself in that position again is unthinkable.
Again NOT to be negative here, only real…….my ex’s “wake up call” was being handcuffed and placed under arrest! He was arrested on terroristic threats, then possession with the intent to distribute (little did they realize that the quantity of illegal drugs they found were solely for his own consumption) a restraining order. He lost his business and all his clients, he lost me and my family as well as the support of his own family and friends.

Eventually after he was clean for about 4 months we got back together (mistake on my part) it was too soon I actually see now that he should have truly felt the loss and worked through those feelings before we ever thought about getting back to together, but hind sight is always 20/20. Addicts never think of past consequences as a stop gap not to use, they just get more crafty, more manipulative – especially when that obsession kicks in.

Your husband hasn’t really lost anything from this relapse. He got to drink and use drugs again, then throw cheating into that mix and what’s consequences? A threat that you may leave, you aren’t so what has he learned?

Please remember – we do teach people how to treat us. We set that standard and they follow it.

I can remember the words very clearly in my mind today from my ex “but you love me and you’ll always take me back no matter what”.

Don’t even want to waste my time wondering what he’s thinking today……it’s officially been 1 month of no contact, 2 months of ending the relationship that turned to nothing but lies, hurt and pain.

I hope you far better with the lesson you are teaching yours.
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