Dee74

water wings Nands

D

kenton

We call them arm bands over here. Just looked on world news and read about the rain and the floods. Must be terrifying. Hope everyone is and will be ok.

I love reading these posts. It's like spiritual soup for the soul. Apologies if I don't reply to everything. It doesn't mean your words haven't joined Buddha inside my head. I imagine your words having a cup of tea with Buddha inside my head (stole that idea with you Ananda!!).

First of all, Steely how did it go with your sister? Been thinking of you xxx

Ananda, loved what you wrote about inviting AV thoughts in for a cup of tea. Loved it so much I extended it to good thoughts. They're all in there having a cup of tea with Buddha. My head is an awesome place to be these days!!

Poppy, I hear you loud and clear. I was at a family function yesterday and every single adult was drinking. And no one was falling over drunk. How do they do it???? At one point I saw my sister pour herself a glass of wine in the sunshine and it looked so lovely and sophisticated and I looked at my diet coke and thought, "why can't I have the wine??" But of course I know why. I know that if I'd had one glass of wine yesterday, I would have ended up falling over drunk and then I wouldn't be up early this morning googling world news to read about flooding in Australia. Instead I'd be consumed with self hatred, fear, shame and probably suicidal thinking that I wouldn't want to invite in for a cup of tea. And Buddha would definitely have left the building. I'm always only one drink away from hell on earth. It's that simple. Well done for recognising your AV, ignoring it and getting out of there. You're doing awesome Poppy xxx

So, I survived my first social function with my birth family since I got sober! More than survived it, I rocked it!! Been thinking about it ever since and it made me realise that being an active alcoholic is sort of like turning up for a battle with no armour. Worse than that, it's like giving all your ammunition to your opponent then feeling surprised when you end up battered in a heap on the floor.

Being sober was my defence yesterday. And being sober meant I didn't give anyone any ammunition to throw at me. Obviously my mum tried. When she saw I wasn't saying or doing anything stupid and/or offensive, she started throwing some of her own ammunition at me and I guess that's to be expected. But I took it with dignity and in the end I could tell people were thinking that she needed to leave me alone and move on. My brother even had a word with her and told her if she wanted to keep attacking me, she'd be doing it on her own. I LOVE my brother.

And I realised that being sober meant I listened, really listened to what others had to say. More than that, I was interested in what others had to say. And guess what? Normal drinkers have issues too. They get into spats with friends and neighbours and feel insecure and get angry and frustrated too. I listened and I gave advice where I thought I could help and people seemed interested in what I had to say. And these are the people who know me. Who really know me. Who knew what I was like when I was drinking and who I thought had turned their backs on me. And here I was giving them advice and having conversations like proper equals.

At one point, and this really made me and my inner Buddha laugh, I even started giving drinking advice to my teenage nieces and nephews!! I opened up and was honest about my drinking and told them some people can't handle alcohol and should never drink it. My 15 year old niece asked me how a person knows whether you can handle it or not. And I said, never knowing when to stop drinking is a big red flag as is drinking in secret, blacking out and thinking about alcohol a lot. My 16 year old nephew then said that I should go into their school and talk about alcoholism because no one has ever explained it that clearly before!!

Can you imagine?? Nobenders in schools. Spreading the word to the younger generations. I guess it makes sense that if you want to understand addiction, ask an addict.

I love being sober. I really, really love it. And when I went to bed last night, I thought about dad. It was weird being with all my family and him not being there. I miss him so much but there were no tears last night. Because when I thought of him, I imagined him looking down at me and feeling proud. I'm going to beat this addiction for him, I'm doing it in his memory. And I'm doing it for me. Because I've finally worked out that I'm worth it. Thank you so much everyone, I love you all xxxx

Steely

You just rocked my world kenton because the same happened for me when visiting my sister. I engaged, I laughed, I shared, and people were interested and laughed and shared with me, and there was a huge rack of wine sitting right next to me, all dusty. Mine never had a chance to gather dust

People didn't drink, but not to 'protect' me they just didn't drink had yummy apple juice instead and a great lunch. I took some fancy coconut cakes for dessert, whereas normally it would alcohol under my arm. I feel so stoked.

And I really love being sober too kenton even though those dusty old bottles of wine grabbed my attention more than a few times. I ask the same question kenton, how do people have wine just sitting there? Got me beat.

When we bid our farewells I could tell that the smiles were genuine. I feel so very happy.

I did see you out of the corner of my eye nands, I saw you all as I twirled my sobriety ring and thought of you beside me, and you were. I would not have seen my sister today if not for you. I thank you so.

Was only thinking of you this morning Poppy and was hoping you were doing well. Congratulations on your 7 months, but please don't be seduced by the glass of wine in the sun illusion. I've fallen for that one so many times. Like really fallen

I reckon we've got the mainsail up girls....land ho....shite I'm a dork.

Love you all xxx

kenton

I love you too Steely and I'm so glad your lunch with your sister went well.

The dusty wine bottles made me think about a wine fridge I once won in a raffle. Only thing I've ever won in my life and it was a wine fridge!! Anyway, maybe some wine loving alcoholics can keep a wine fridge stocked but not me. My wine fridge was always empty even though I was always buying wine. Hmmmmmm

Don't know how these normal types do it. I take my hat off to them. Maybe next lifetime I'll come back as a normal drinker and understand their secret. For now, I'm happy to live out this lifetime as an alcoholic but a recovering one. All the recovering alcoholics I've met seem awesome. Particularly the Nobenders xxxx

Ananda

I thank you all for adding a level of joy and of support that was missing in my sobriety!

The corner of the eye thing is actually the title of a Dean Kontz book that I enjoyed. I came to associate it with my father after his death and later Connie.

After dad died, one time I was upstairs and I could have sworn I caught a glimpse of him out of the corner of my eye. I have some really odd thoughts and beliefs about time as an illusion, so this all fit very well in my belief system (which could be right or wrong...just is what it is LOL).

So when I can't "see" "touch" or "hear" someone, I think of them being there, just out of sight. Sorta like the deer around my little woods. To quote small soldiers (I think that was the movie) "just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there"!

I'm glad everyone's visits went well. I find that there are people who love me being sober and then those who wanted me sober, but don't like the results ... It has taken away the ammunition, much as Kenton said.

Now Steely! Can I call you Captain Dork from now on???? (in a loving way).

I get to be Private 1st Class Dork grouphug:

kenton

I just went shopping and while I was walking around the store, I heard a female Australian voice and I turned around to look at the speaker whilst thinking, "I wonder if that's Steely?" Even though I know Steely is in Australia!! I like the corner of the eye thing Ananda. Sometimes the presence of my dad is so strong I can't believe he's not there. Luckily he chooses appropriate, non embarrassing moments to show up, he seems to choose his moments wisely hope everyone is doing ok today xxxx

Ananda

I sorta got "called out" without my name being spoken in the AA meeting. Called out may be a bit harsh ...

I had told someone in a meeting once that sometimes the people in AA get tired of people who keep getting drunk.

So ... I had a reaction...which means I have to look at why ... as I comptenplated this, I found several things.

1. My comment was too general ... it would be more accurate to say that some people in AA. I think it is probably "most", but I should have gone low on this.

2. I was sharing my experience, and she shared that it was not her experience. So why was that upsetting ... well I tend to think that my experience is the only experience and that is just not so. I'm sure her experience is real and she correctly stated it.

3. When I say "my experience" it is suppose to only indicate that we only share our experience, not our opinions and views, etc. However I almost always emphasis the MY ... as if it is somehow more important cause it is mine, or as if anything else anyone experiences would be untrue. I'm gonna have to watch that!

4. She was doing something I often do. She was concerned the newcomers in the room might be afraid to come back after a drink based on what I said. She turned into Mama bare. She sounded attaching ... and how often do I do that? well quite a bit. And I have to say that I do these things a lot more In AA (in an inappropriate manner) than I do on these threads... not sure why except maybe I still have some resentments and haven't let go of how things were 3 years ago ... therefore missing how things may be now.

5. I don't own the truth. My perceptions and views and opinions are just that ... Every one has a diferent perception, view and opinion.

Anyhow ... just wanted to share about my troublesome relationship with face to face. I'm working on it as I think it is helpful to have f2f when possible. Plus I care about many of the people and often get great comfort in a share.

I think Steely is still in bed, and Kenton is at dinner....

kevlarsjal

Last night and today was spend with my BF. And I'm very confused. I think he senses something's wrong on my side.

We were talking about the 4th step last night over dinner. He thinks it's to "break" the alcoholic's ego and designed as some kind of punishment, rubbing the alcoholic all his/her flaws in their face. I said that that's how it seemed to me too first but that my point of view changed drastically.

And that it even says in the 12 steps and 12 traditions book that one (especially the ones who have depressive tendencies) has to be careful not to use this step to beat oneself up. And that I now understand it the way that it's supposed to help us identifying and getting rid of all our bad feelings that we have bottled up and carry around with us over time.
During that conversation I also mentioned that I felt really bad the other night because I realised that I wasn't always this nice and caring. He reacted very nicely and said (similar to all of you) that I shouldn't feel bad about it, that it was difficult times for me and also that to him it only counts who I'm now. I thought that was so nice to hear from him. But I felt bad because there are things he told me about his past, that make me judge him. Why do I care so much about who he was years ago? I do find so many things about his past that I dislike and I am starting to wonder what that's all about.

I think I have developed some doubts about this relationship. I do no longer know if the age difference isn't a problem for me. He's 12 years older, has a proper career, has lived in 3 different countries, has had a very serious relationship before and all that stuff. I didn't. He said last week, that he wants to settle down with me and spend his life with me. Which is extremely nice to hear and touching but I'm not sure that's what I want in the next few years. I don't know if I'm ready for that.
I always hoped to live abroad for a while, alone. Then I think maybe it's stupid to give up on a relationship for that reason and maybe I would regret it later.
I also don't know how happy I am with him. I was extremely happy in the begging but I start to think that this was mainly cause I loved how committed and excited he was about me. Now that he wanted to break up with me 3 times I feel like me feelings for him have cooled down quite a bit. I also worry that the new sober me will develop in an direction that he won't like.
For example I always thought I liked being alone but I recently discovered that I prefer having people around me most of the time. Maybe I just liked drinking alone. And that I like being active and doing things in the evenings or weekends. He prefers to sit at home and draw. Which I find boring these days and I feel bad about thinking that way.

Sorry to bother you with my confusion but I had to get it out. I'll read through your posts now, I wanna know how your weekends were

Steely

Wow! Where to start?

First, I suppose is to say that I woke this morning thinking about you kenton and our successful alcohol free visits to family.

I jolted awake thinking "kenton's brother stood up for her!" and I hadn't raised it in my reply. So I jumped out of bed and here I am. Good morning!

I was so happy for you kenton, maybe the Nobenders were channelling your brother(or maybe he's just a good brother) and he came to your side. The Nobenders have got mighty powers! Dork call, dork call.

Believe me when I say that though everyone was welcoming and happy to see me sober I know many who do not like the fact that I am growing stronger. Like my other sister called me a cretin for forgetting to bring a document on a visit to see my Mum. And it wasn't said in a fun way.

Don't think you could call anyone a cretin in a fun way, really. And I'm a funster

Usually, I would just hang my head and embody that awful word but this time I didn't. I simply said, "no G, not a cretin. And she shut up like a clam. I felt empowered in myself, and smiled secretly.

Did I ever tell you that my brother used to call me "the scum excreted from the bowels of society"? He used to call me a cretin too, and I'm not, and it has only been you guys that have have given me these little pieces of confidence.

So the fact that your brother stood for you kenton was integral to my reply, and shows the shift that is happening within ourselves and with (some) others. It's so great.

Wish it were me standing behind you in the Department store we could have had a cuppa.

I have only just woken and have read everyone's posts but need to sit with my tea and a lousy cigarette. Gee, cigarettes must be so much cheaper on the Indian Reserve nands - a 3 hour drive is a long way, and you've got fuel on top.

During the 60's (here) white fellas fed alcohol to indigenous people, who weren't accustomed to it and as a means of control. History cites alcohol being used as a means of preventing Aboriginal people from voting. That's when they eventually did get the vote!

Will close now as still tired but want to respond to everyone's posts with proper thought.

As always, my love to you all. xxx

Steely

Hey nands, you know that guy in the pink suit in the Macklemore video that sings, "I look F'n awesome"?

Well, on the way home on the train yesterday I was singing in my head, "I did sumpin' sober", to the same tune.

Ananda

Hi to the "Dork Brigade"

I have to go wash my dogs (2 takes a while ... they are very big).

But I did want to pop out to Kev that I think that no matter what choices we make, it always means we didn't choose something else... so regret can always be our companion if we aren't careful. To go on a theme ... (not to make a laugh .. but serious underneath) ... Perhaps we need to invite our regrets in to tea. I often would try to skate over and push out my regrets. At this time maybe I need to just let them speak up when they arise and put them back to bed so to speak. Regret isn't really my enemy ... I think it just reminds me that there are many paths and if I took a diferent one ... think of all the good things I'd miss on this path.

Anyhow ... Kev .... what I am saying is you just make what seems like the right decision at the time and accept that regrets happen. If you do what YOU thing is the CORRECT action .... the regret won't have a sword to hold over you ... EEEKKKKS - I'm you you ing instead of me meing....I won't go back and change it cause now you guys will see how come I **** people off so much in real life where I can't backspace and reword....

Ananda

Yes Steely ... he is one of my favorite parts .... that and the pajama's with footies (I rock those MF)...

now shosh so I can go wash the dogs

*sticks out tongue and darts away from the keyboard*

kevlarsjal

I was thinking a bit more about my post earlier and I think what I'm struggling with is finding a balanced approach to the relationship. Cause I tend to either get too emotionally dependent or too distant. It's always been that way for me. And i think neither is good for me or my partner. But from what I heard this is common for alcoholics? I think there was something about this in step 12. That we weren't able to build good and stable relationships and were either making ourselves dependent on other or trying to control them.

And thanks to everyone still being there for me even when I'm not as active here. I feel bad about not giving back as much. I love all of you so much and it's weird to say that because I know neither of you in person but you all mean a lot to me and I do think of you every day.

Ananda, you always seem so reflected, I find it amazing how much insight you have when it comes to your emotions and reactions. I hope I'll get there too one day. Thanks for the advice on putting the 4th step away for a bit and continuing later. I get very eager to make quick progress and to do it "right" and I think I still lose focus on self care too easily. I'll try to connect more to my inner Buddha or my HP or how one wants to call it.

Poppy, good to see you and well done on 7 months!!

Steely, I'm glad to hear you had a good time with your sister! And it's so nice to hear that we have also contributed to that. I find it so touching how we all help each other, it's quite the opposite to what I'm used to. You girls (and guys too, Dee, Phoenix, Solly, tnek) are amazing!
And thanks for saying such lovely things about me! Maybe my doubts about my relationships are just another attempt to burn some bridges as a "misguided form of punishment" again? I think Ananda also suggested something similar and I think you could both be right. I think actually because of the fights with my BF and him wanting to end it, I feel like I have to destroy it in an attempt to protect myself... how do I get out of this thinking again?
Alao, how is it going with the housing?

Thanks for your advice Dee! I think I tend to obsess a bit too much with the past. Maybe it has to do with wanting to control things and trust issues. But I often think that by analysing the past I will get a glimpse of the future. So if someone acted horribly in the past I tend to assume that they will do the same
in the future. Which makes it hard to live in the moment or to forgive. Probably something worth having a closer look at.

Kenton, thanks for your reply to my post 2 nights ago. It really helped me to hear that you recognised yourself in it. And you come across as an incredibly sweet, caring, funny and intelligent woman. Also my BF said pretty much the same thing like you did. That it's important who i am today and that i don't have to be that person anymore cause I recognised my behaviour and that that also means, that I no longer behave in the same way cause otherwise I would've not recognised it.

I liked your story about winning a wine fridge maybe it makes me an untypical alcoholic but I had loads of wine sitting around for years. I was quite specific about what I liked and drank and I only ever touched the other ones in emergency situations but would've rather had some vodka. So basically my whole pantry was a bar and there were some bottles of stuff I just didn't like the taste of that gathered thick dust layers.

Big congrats on doing so well at your family gathering! That makes me so happy to hear, you're doing so well and getting so strong! Also that your brother stood up for you. It's amazing how people actually do that for us and trust us now that we're sober and reliable.
I love the idea of alcoholics going to schools and explaining addiction to teenagers. Not sure if I'm too optimistic there but I think maybe it could help some. Not that I would've cared back then but maybe someone's more open and less self-destructive than teenage Kev was.

My brother's wedding's coming up and I'm already stressing about it. I got away without seeming rude or explaining why with not drinking at family dinners but I am stressing about saying "no" to just a glass of champagne after the ceremony.
Not in the way that i will feel too tempted to drink. But I can't use my normal excuses and i have not told any family member why I don't drink. I just always said 'not today' and I doubt they understand how serious it is to me. So I worry that they won't understand why I can't even have a sip and that they will think I'm rude.
Then another thought was that I think I could just have a sip and then leave the glass somewhere. I don't think this would tempt me to drink more. I was always a pretty controlled drinker at family gatherings anyway and didn't have the "once I started I couldn't stop" ever. For me it was always the problem that i wanted to drink all the time. A glass in the morning, a glass with lunch, 2 with dinner and so on. I don't know if I'm fooling myself again. But I think I could do that, just have a sip and then put it away and as long as I wouldn't feel it it would be okay I guess. But then I think this would maybe open a door that I should better keep shut. Also I think I wouldn't wanna tell this to anyone at AA because they'd consider it a relapse. Same with my BF. I know it shouldn't be much about what others think. Ugh, i just am so confused these days. I don't like thoughts like this. Sometimes I think it makes it harder to remember why I can't even have one glass at a wedding when situations like that never led to problems or me getting drunk in the past. I just have to remember that the loss of control wasn't about the amount consumed in one go but about the frequency. And if drinking became an option again I'd spend 24/7 trying to find reasons why a glass would be okay right now or why it wouldn't count.

Also in other (very good) news, my dad is recovering quickly from the surgery and today he even went for a little walk on the hospital grounds. He might be able to go home in a couple of days!

I feel like my post is all over the place and so is my brain. Thank you all for being there and for always helping me, you are all particularly wonderful souls. Love to all of you! Xxx

Steely

Gotta say this first because I lost my long and hopefully thoughtful post in reply to your experience at AA nands, but finished up disappearing up my own a/hole, so maybe for the best

No, it took me time because there was a lot of thought required, so complex, and getting my ideas together still very difficult.

I was often in trouble at AA nands when I crossed the party line but at the same time knew that it had a lot to offer. Good example being kev's understanding that Step 4 is not about punishment, but a time for self examination and change.

I dunno I seem to have a problem with Groupthink, but as I say, AA taught me so very much. I regret none of it and learnt heaps.

I hope you continue with it kev because it really seems to have you thinking about you in the world. And that's the way to go imo.

And I WAS logged on SR

Aren't our views borne from our experience nands?

Steely

You are right kev. Nands is very wise

And I love that in a person.

That was very funny about not being able to backspace or delete in f2face nands. I loved that too.

Ananda

Yes Kev ... I agree with Steely ...

It seems like AA is really helping you sort things out. It has done that for me on many occasions. You might want to think about what happens to you when you drink ... at first blush it may seem like alchohol was fun ... but it also made me feel good...why didn't I feel good enough? And in time, Alchohol became the solution to every problem.

I also ws thinking that when I was 29, over 2 years in AA and the same time sober... I drank again... yep I seemed to have control, but that was an illusion. It was like playing Russian roulette back then ... I might just drink a night to black out, or I might be back in the bottle for weeks, months or even years.

Maybe not play Russian roulette today, and maybe there would be one family member you could tell that it is imperative that you not drink and let them give you some support.

And some people claim they can't cause of medicine they take...but that might not work with family who might start freaking about what is wrong...

Yes steely .. views opinions and thoughts ... almost everything is a result of my experiences, it's just that I usually don't know if my views are correct ... I usually don't have all the information and can't read peoples minds etc. a lot of what gets us to a view is oh I don't know You scrambled my brain! See I'm not so smart

I just know that everyone's "memory" of an event is usually a bit different (example). Of course I have lots of views, opinions and ideas of all types! And boy do they sometimes drive me into talking out my arse about things I don't really know!!! and assumptions galore They are fine ... I just try to remember that weather its my memories or my opinions ... they are almost always changing a bit here and there as I go along...so I try to just take them for what they are worth.

When I spaze out later about something, will you guys remind me of all this stuff... I can talk the talk, but when the rubber meets the road I tend to just swirl into a storm. It's only later I can see...

Steely

I'll remind you nands if you remind me. I'm riding a dirt bike

Ananda

At least you have a dirt bike!!!!!!!


rubber meets the road p.jpg


well crap ... that is too small

Ananda

rubber meets the road p2.jpg

well ... a bit better

Steely

You are cracking me up nands. too good.