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Old 09-13-2010, 07:54 AM
  # 141 (permalink)  
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Two things jumped out at me. The first one was when he kept telling you over and over that he doesn't lie. When someone is so adamant about something like that , it's not true. Never trust someone who tells you , "Oh, I never lie, you can trust me"! Run away at that point.
The second one was when you wrote that even his best friend said that he never thought that your bf could love someone that much. The best friend hit the nail on the head. He can't love anyone but himself. He is a manipulator, a sneak, and a con man. I am sorry to be so blunt, but I think you need to hear it. He never loved you. He was using you. He cannot love anyone. He is incapable of love. He is a sociopath. Get away from him as fast as you can. Please for your little boys sake.
H
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Old 09-13-2010, 08:02 AM
  # 142 (permalink)  
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The original poster has left the building LOL
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:08 AM
  # 143 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Live View Post
The original poster has left the building LOL
no.... I haven't

I'm really just taking this all in - quite honestly I'm feeling a little bad for all the tension I've now caused here as well.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:27 AM
  # 144 (permalink)  
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This story hit me quite close to home having been betrayed, and a code, and not being ready to let go until I was, and saw clearly, (with alot of help from SR), and now 3 yrs. later it is like looking back at old pictures. I went to Alanon, got a sponser,went no contact,went to therapy, read the Melody Beattie books, took a meditation/yoga class and learned to quiet my mind, got healthy recovery friends, stayed busy not focusing on the XAH.....AH at the time, read all the stories on SR, slowly began to see the real deal....not what I wanted.......the real deal......got out of the judge/victim circle.....worked two jobs to stay out of my head......and busy.......it wasn't long before my AH was on Match.com saying he was divorced....he wasn't.......and for some reason that was the MIRACLE dealbreaker for me. I filed, moved, stayed doing what I was doing to take care of myself. I LET GO SO I WASN'T DRAGGED........but my poor sponser said I carried that rock around on a string for awhile.....until I let go......just let go......no more drama, no more chaos, no more worrying, no more , daily meetings, peace.....serenity......health.......happy.......a nd by the grace of God. I don't have to live like that anymore and can forgive....(for me). Mine XAH was so sick on so many levels and still is. I gave him to God too. We have the tools when if we are so lucky to start seeing the real deal. The abandonment book is really helping me at this time. I am halfway through it. It is a process. Getting out of the ICK. We are ready when we are ready and I had to take the time it took.....years.....and now I am grateful.....YES.....grateful for the lessons. We are throwing the lifeline . Let go or be dragged then grab ours and hold on. We are not a glum lot. It is fun. It is a miracle. Don't leave before the miracle happens. We are all one.....not alone.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:54 AM
  # 145 (permalink)  
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Hi lost.

I am glad you are going to a therapist.

Mine is a little bit expensive, but for me it is top priority, just after rent and food.

Only a professional can help you find the answers you need.

I would also like to mention someone else's demons and defects are not yours. Sometimes we believe they are ours but ... no, they are not.
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:34 PM
  # 146 (permalink)  
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glad you are still here

I am tremendously busy and will be for about a week....

packing to move and way behind!
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:40 PM
  # 147 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Live View Post
glad you are still here

I am tremendously busy and will be for about a week....

packing to move and way behind!
Good luck in your move Live ... the time u have spent on me is NOT unappreciated. thank you for EVERYTHING.
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Old 09-13-2010, 01:15 PM
  # 148 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by lostfrmbetrayal View Post
Just sitting down to write this post has brought me to tears. I'm still in a fog over what has just happened to me that it sometimes takes my breath away. Since I don't know where to begin... I suppose the "beginning" would be the best place to start.

I divorced an ACTIVE alcoholic (he is still drinking today) in December 2007. Together about 12 years. He never cheated (my opinion all my life has always been, CHEATING IS GROUNDS FOR TERMINATION OF THE RELATIONSHIP - PERIOD) - In any of my adult relationships, i have never been cheated on. Hmmm.. let's say for reality purposes that I've never KNOWN that I was ever cheated on and I've never broken up with or have been broken up with by someone because of cheating. He never physically abused me either, but the mental and drunken verbal abuse was overwhelming and horrible (because he drank at home - always - every day) and the lack of "attention" from him was heartbreaking...he refused to recognize his problem (and I never went to Al Anon) so - we split up. We have a 10 year old son together.

I stayed TOTALLY single, concentrating completely on my son and my job until December of 2009 when I met what I thought was "a man sent to me by God"... and this is how it happened: (i will get to why this type of post is being placed on Sober Recovery.com)

This man's daughter (18) and sister (38) work at a Convenient store across from my house. I'd been going there for years... for 6 months leading up to December 2009, every single time I walked into the store, this man's daughter and sister would come up to me and say "You really need to let me give me brother or dad - (depending on who was saying this to me at the time) your phone number!!!" And for 6 months I told them "thanks so much, but I just don't do blind dates". Needless to say, they were very persistent everytime I came into that store. Finally, they caught me on a good day and I just said "OK!!"... and so the saga begins

He is 41 years old and 10 YEARS SOBER.... 10 YEARS!!! I hope after what you've read above, you can see how that would attract me to him! NO ALCOHOL! WOW! I'm gonna LOVE this... I am not a drinker AT ALL... perfect! He was married for quite a long time -but he changed (became sober) and she did not... they've been divorced now 6 years.

He told me that in those 6 years... it was his 1st girlfriend, immediately after his divorce that he said the words "I love you" too. Only one. Since, he has never said it, nor felt it.

I had him up on a pedistal... now, not to HIM necessarilly... but to my family & friends I placed him high on a pedistal. Sober 10 years, still close with his sponsor, goes to yearly silent retreats with monks, weekly meetings still, does many leads, takes care of his home, job and kids - and continued to pride himself with the same words to me, over & over: "I do not lie Lisa... that is detrimental to my recovery and against all that I've learned in my recovery - I DO NOT LIE" - he has said these words so much that I hear it in my head every day right now - and continue to weep over it, constantly.

I also hear in my head the words that were spoken in LATE February (2 months in)... when HE asked ME to be "his" and be in a committed relationship with him... HE ASKED THIS OF ME... also telling me that he has never wanted THAT either in the 6 years he's been divorced (maybe a 'little bit' he'd say about that 1st girlfriend). So.... it was going so well (in my mind) and he was saying all the right/perfect things that of course I said YES!! I hadn't felt that kind of happiness in 15+ years.

April arrives (4 months in), he tells me that he loves me for the first time... with a twinkle in my eye I respond with the same "I love you so much too!" He also tells me (this is a very important part of the story to me) that he STRONGLY belives that it is now time that he meets my son. Let me explain... this man is my 1ST BOYFRIEND since my son was born! I made a very strict rule for myself that I would not be introducing any man to my son (to avoid him getting attached quickly, because my boy would.. his father isnt much of a father) until I knew FOR SURE that he was the one... I was only trying to protect him. Well, even after him asking me to commit and then telling me he loves me, I was still very worried as it is still a very new relationship and I'm protective over my son... as all parents are. BUT - he pushed and continued to tell me OVER AND OVER - directly to my face: "you are all I have ever wanted or needed and I want us to mve forward together in our lives and I want to be a part of your sons life - PLEASE!" So - he convinced me it was time. Of course they hit it off and became 'friends' quite quickly.

In May, he tells me that one day "I'm going to make you my wife". WOW. WOW! He said I was never going to marry again... ever! But you! Your so different! Can you only imagine how wonderful this made me feel? I don't know that I can express in words how FANTASTIC it felt... again - I havent felt this kind of "true" happines in 15 years. (really.. more than that).

August 15, 2010 arrives and he asks me (and my boy of course) to move in with him. WOW AGAIN! But... this would mean a lot of changes.. big ones... including a little boy.... this means that I would have to sell my home (the home I worked very hard to buy all on my own) I would have to change my sons school (something I hold very true to my heart that I thought I would NEVER do to my child - as my childhood was horribly unstable) My son has been going to the same school with the same children since PRESCHOOL - for 6 years! So, to change my sons school was a BIG, BIG DEAL.
We sat down with my son and talked it over... my son said YES! I want to move in with him, YES!, but do I have to change schools? We told him yes. Even though he was very sad about it... he weighed it out in his mind and said "OK... I can do this - when will we move?" We told him that our target date was October 1st - and this very smart little boy said... "Mom, school will be starting next week... can I start this new school THEN, instead of having to be the "new kid" in October?" I was soooo impressed with his thought pattern and his strength that I agreed "what a GREAT idea!". That week, I went through the motions to withdraw him from his school and enroll him in the NEW school. He has been going to the new school now since August 24th. This is important... I've changed my sons LIFE here !!!

So, here goes...

On Sunday morning, August 29, 2010 - this man got up early to go to work at a side job. Now, let me first start by saying... I have NEVER - my hand to God - snooped and looked in his cell phone... NEVER. But... 4-5 weeks ago he bought a new phone... and that morning he left his OLD phone on the night stand, next to the bed. I cannot tell you what the force was exactly that made me roll over and grab that phone... but I can tell you that part of me wishes I never had. I went to the photos... I will try not to be to descriptive, but the magnitude of it it UNREAL. I found a picture, dated MAY 12, 2010 (right around the time I was told "I want to make you my wife someday", more convincingly than anyone has ever spoke to me before). The picture was of a NAKED woman in HIS KITCHEN, bent over and clutching his refrigerator. There were other pictures of them out in a restaraunt dated in February.. March... and June and other naked pictures from other daysd thoughout my ENTIRE RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM! Not to mention the plethora of text messages to and from her. Did I mention this woman is married? wow.

I lost my mother 7 years ago... I had never felt loss like that before then... and I had never felt pain like that again until NOW. Crushed, betrayed, lied to in such a sophisticated way... such a masterful liar

I sent him a message that morning that I looked in his phone and told him what I had found... i was soooo hurt and angry (understandably I hope?) I'm telling you I was IN SHOCK... literally physical SHOCK. I told him to never contact me again, that what he did to me... carrying on a relationship with another woman THE WHOLE TIME (ouch...OMG ouch) was unforgivable and that he will never see my face again. And that i hate him and now look what I have to do with my son and what do I tell him and how could you do this?? He just begged for forgivness and would ONLY admit to what I had as proof in that phone.

Now...some may not agree with what I'm about to say that I ALSO did... but I have to be honest and tell you ALL, otherwise you can't help me... I found this woman's husband and I called him. I felt strongly that he should know was happening. The next day - SHE CALLED ME! SHE was apologizing TO ME!? Swears she didn't know about me and wouldn't have done this if she had. That her marriage was close to over anyhow, but claims she didn't want to hurt me and then actually cried when i told her about my son.... she continued to swear she that she didn't know about me and my son. She told me everything. EVERYTHING. Things he prayed she wouldn't... actually, he was texting her while I was talking to her begging her to "shut up, enough damage has been done, she is hurt enough, dont tell her anymore!" But she said at this point she had nothing to lose... and wanted to make sure I knew what an absolute liar he was so that I wouldnt "even think about patching things up with him" She told me things that right now are choking me of air just to think about it.

Now that I have probably truly bored you crying the blues here... I'm going to finally get to the reason why I'm posting this HERE. It's because I need help from YOU. My friends, my family... they can't help me, they are too close - and IF I were to tell them (no, I havent told ANYONE) they would FOR SURE angrily tell me that I better be running in the other direction right now... right? Right.

So, if you are still reading this... I hope it's because you have some educated and experienced advise about this "type" of alcoholic... i dont even know if i said that right, i'm obviously so uneducated when it comes to active or receovering alsoholics. But I am lost and torn. And I need HELP... I need EDUCATED AND EXPERIENCED HELP FROM YOU. because here is where I am today, Septmeber 10, 2010:

He wouldn't let me nor will he now "let" me break up with him! Please don't get me wrong.. I'm not a silly school girl and he is not threatening IN ANY WAY... what I mean by he won't let me is.... he is QUITE CONVINCING?? The therapist called him a "master manipulator -a master liar.....but he is begging for forgiveness. He tells me that he CANNOT let me go... that this is the biggest mistake he has ever made -EVER- since the day he stopped drinking. That he is full of shame, that he cannot look himself in the mirror without crying. That it ripped a hole in his heart to see the pain I am in... pleading that I go to counseling with him... that he can promise and assure me that it would never ever happen again. That he is going to re-start his 12 steps with his sponsor becasue his sponsor feels this "must have been a form of self-sabotage" Self-Sabotage?? What?? That he truly feels allll of those things for me, but never ever thought that he would or could feel those feelings for a woman... the feeling of being in love. That he fought it and fought it out of fear of being hurt.

RELENTLESS! in not letting me go.... He is insistant that whatever it was that was wrong with him he is going to fix. that the way he was living was awful and he is going to fix it. that his consequence is the pain he caused me and my son and everyone around us - his entire world was turned upside down and no one in his life claim to have ever seen him with emotions like this and feelings like this for a woman - ever. His best friend of 37 years said he never knew this man could feel anything towards a woman.. let alone this much love and emotion.

What the heck happened? omgoodness, i'm beside myself trying to figure out what happened... what IS happening?

i begged him to tell me what, if anything i may have done wrong - just as a learning and growing tool. he claims -he swears i did NOTHING. he tells me im the most loving and trusting and sincere, happy -sweetest woman he has ever known. i said in our short relationship, have i ever denied you "intimacy" and he answered truthfully - NO. So i beg him and i beg God through my tears to tell me why. WHY? If he is so in love with me, how could he do what he has done?

I'm a strong, independent woman... who would drop a guy for MUCH MUCH less. PLEASE.... tell me...

Why am I not gone? Why am I even still considering giving him the chance to attempt to earn my trust back?

Will i really EVER truly trust him again? Will i ever forgive him?

I am praying now and once I post this I will continue to pray that someone out there on this site has the time in their busy lives to have read this post and have some helpful insight, experience and/or advise for me.

I PRAY.

Thank you so much for listening... i wrote so much because if i want true advise... you would have to know just about all of it.
im right were u are now he cheated on me few days ago and is trying to win me back and feeling as u are exactly so its true they do all do the same things right now im praying i can survive this cos right now i dont know if i can do it
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Old 09-13-2010, 01:49 PM
  # 149 (permalink)  
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Lost,

You haven't caused any tension or upset here.

And I totally understand why you would have fallen head over heels for the guy...I think most of us would or have.
I understand being single and being oh so careful, cautious and watchful...and how great it feels to be romanced...don't all we women want and love that?
Then finding those photos..stunned doesn't even begin to cover it does it?
Your whole reality goes into shock!

For myself, I knew he was now trying to sell you a bill of goods and that as much as you are hurt now...chances are it would get worse in the future.
I know how much you want to believe him...and how much this makes you doubt everything about yourself.

I fear him being able to isolate you...such that you are alone with whatever comes after.
You still have your home now and all the options...if you follow his path, you won't.
And you will be isolated...feel ashamed and not even able to talk about whatever is going on.
It and you will become too humiliated.

I and the others here do not want that to happen to you and your son.

I hope you are hanging in there today!
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:38 PM
  # 150 (permalink)  
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Whew! lostfrmbetrayal I am glad we wacky codies didn't scare you away!
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:33 AM
  # 151 (permalink)  
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I too am glad you're deciding to stick around. In my opinion this place is above all about personal recovery and growth. It is about us who come here and not our partners because of whom we ended up here in the first place.
So I really hope you'll continue coming here and open yourself up to the possibility to start working on yourself. As that is the kind of thing that will help you to never again feel the way you do now.
That being said, I just have to say again I don't think your, meaning his, problem has anything to do with alcoholism or recovery. I think if you continue looking at it from that angle you're just bringing more confusing into the whole picture. He is using alcoholism as an excuse, don't fall for it.
But apart from that I think all other things we talk about on this forum can apply to you too, since, as I said, it is mostly about working on ourselves, and removing disfunction and madness out of our lives, finding peace and happiness. And I really think you can benefit from learning about that.
Take care
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Old 09-15-2010, 04:11 PM
  # 152 (permalink)  
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i feel like i'm getting angry now...

..like really angry

i frown because i don't like myself when i'm angry.. i have a bad tendency of turning anger into hate... i haven't had hate in my body since i lost my mother 7 years ago - i learned the hard way about hate...

but this anger that's building.. it scares me.

still in a little shock tho too i think... i really don't know.

just wanted to write this i guess... still fresh to me
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Old 09-15-2010, 04:23 PM
  # 153 (permalink)  
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Just go no contact and go to a meeting and stay busy and do what is fun for you.....you didn't know him this time last year-correct? What would you do this time last year for fun? Who were your real friends? It helps me to go in nature. I live near the Blue Ridge Mts. and a day up there will clear your head. Get some good movies or a good book. Keep sharing here. It gets better. Mad is really good....because the brain can't do mad and sad at the same time. Mad is good.
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Old 09-15-2010, 06:00 PM
  # 154 (permalink)  
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I am glad you are feelin' the anger. I'm wonderin' what you're angry about.

The same thing happened to me that happened to you. A person I had fallen in love with, who said all these great things to me, had sex with someone else and hid it from me. Here all this time he asked me to marry him, bought me this diamond engagement ring, brought me into his family, and I thought I was going to be the mom his little daughter never had, and then this. My entire world exploded and collapsed. It seemed I lost EVERYthing. And Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING I had believed up until this point turned out to be a lie! I was so devastated that I became like a zombie. I was walking around outside in the snow, broad daylight in February freezing temperatures, barefoot with no coat or jacket. My mind raced 24 hours a day. I could not sleep my mind would just not stop. I dropped out of life completely. I don't know how long this went on. A friend gave me a telephone number and told me to call it. I did. It was a mental health clinic. They gave me some pills and told me I needed to take them. So I did.

I think it took a good six months before I felt anger. I am glad you feel it.
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Old 09-15-2010, 06:46 PM
  # 155 (permalink)  
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thanks... i know what you mean when you say that you're glad i'm feeling anger... even though i'm not. it took an "action" today that made me angry.. the action was HIM questioning my whereabouts. HOW DARE HE QUESTION ME IN AN ACCUSITORY TONE???? I'm not the f'ing betrayer here, YOU ARE! YOU ARE THE ONE ON TRIAL HERE!! Yes... this anger gave me enough strength to ignore him since... but - it's only been a couple hours.

i was extremelly angry when i wrote that post, however after bringing my boy home from football tonight.... i have been a sobbing basket-case ever since.. and it was only an hour later..

pardon me -but WTF is this HUGE SWING of back and forth.. not daily, but almost hourly ??????

how am i so angry at times that i want to inflict pain and "get revenge" one minute... and the next minute so, so low and sad and pain stricken that i hide in the bathroom for 15 minutes while i sob my eyes out.... then the next minute i'm so somber it's scary... then the next minute i can't sleep... i can't close my eyes (afraid to close my eyes!) because all i see is "them" doing the deed. then the next minute im so fricking tired that i cant take it so my body shuts down - then the dreams come.... yet i must only be 1/2 asleep because all of a sudden i realize that i'm sobbing! I'm crying ??!!! so must be awake and never slept??? - cuz i cant possibly, be literally crying in my sleep -- RIGHT?

the back and forth is torture... i could really do without being my own worst enemy right now.
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Old 09-15-2010, 07:10 PM
  # 156 (permalink)  
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It does sound torturous.

Yes, you can cry in your sleep. When I was in that period of my life that I was just talking about, I went through exactly what you just described. I sobbed and cried in my sleep. Sometimes it was like I was in some hazy foggy dream. I wonder if it was because of what was happening to my brain from the trauma of the betrayal. I remember waking up to a soaking wet pillow. I remember waking up crying, from the depths of my soul.

I don't know what your swings are. All I know is what they were for me. The way the doctor explained it to me was when you suffer a loss or a trauma like I did, the neurotransmitters (chemicals like dopamine) in the brain go haywire. Think of it like a drop in the level of good chemicals in the brain. When those neurotransmitters go haywire, your emotions fluctuate like that. I am willing to bet you are very stressed right now but not aware of just how much.
Are you able to eat?

The questioning and accusations from him could be anything but just sounds typical to me. Sometimes the cheater accuses in order to draw attention away from themselves. Sometimes they do it to justify their own cheating. Sometimes they do it so they can blame you. Sometimes they fear that now that you know, you will do the same either to move on or to retaliate.
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Old 09-15-2010, 07:58 PM
  # 157 (permalink)  
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Anger is good (not the hate part though)
It's been 6 weeks since I left the ex for cheating and lying and I could not feel anger..........not until today! It finally kicked in because I realized something and I finally had enough.
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:26 PM
  # 158 (permalink)  
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There are stages you will go through anger, bargaining, acceptance, denial and you go back and forth and skip around. I forgot one of them. Focus on yourself and your son. God's grace keeps pace with whatever we face. My therapist had me take 5-HTP from the vitamn shop to get my head chemicals straight. It gets better.
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Old 09-16-2010, 01:05 AM
  # 159 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Carol Star View Post
There are stages you will go through anger, bargaining, acceptance, denial and you go back and forth and skip around. I forgot one of them. Focus on yourself and your son. God's grace keeps pace with whatever we face. My therapist had me take 5-HTP from the vitamn shop to get my head chemicals straight. It gets better.
They are 5 stages of grief. You forgot depression: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. One goes back and forht through them, supposedly.

I too think taking some vitamins or some stress relief herbal pills could be a good idea.
Few months ago my RAH was facing death because of liver cirrhosis. My emotions were overwhelming at the time. I started taking some herbal stress relief pills, and they were very helpful. It stopped wild swinging of my emotions and gave me some clarity. I started to breath, and since than everything got much better for me. Aslo, very important: remember to eat properly, it is as important as getting enough sleep (you can't control that) but you can force yourself to eat. When we are hungry, tired and lonely everything looks much worse that it is. Make sure to eliminate as much of that as you can.
Also, anger can be good, it can give you the strength to make the right decisions, but also in my experience the angrier I got, the more I went into the guilt once the anger wore off. But some people can stay angry for healthy amount of time, stick with that anger and make it work for them. I am not one of them, I had to find the balance, the center of myself, get in tune with reality, and the sadness it the emotion that worked best for me.
I wish you well
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:47 AM
  # 160 (permalink)  
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it took an "action" today that made me angry.. the action was HIM questioning my whereabouts. HOW DARE HE QUESTION ME IN AN ACCUSITORY TONE???? I'm not the f'ing betrayer here, YOU ARE! YOU ARE THE ONE ON TRIAL HERE!! Yes... this anger gave me enough strength to ignore him since... but - it's only been a couple hours.

Yep...his true colors are showing, just like we warned you about. What happened to all the talk of treating you the way you deserve? What happened to the remorse on his part for the things he did previously? Why are you still associating with him? He's a jerk and you are in for more of the same shoddy treatment if you continue with him.
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