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I'm so lost...

Old 09-10-2010, 08:53 PM
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I'm so lost...

Just sitting down to write this post has brought me to tears. I'm still in a fog over what has just happened to me that it sometimes takes my breath away. Since I don't know where to begin... I suppose the "beginning" would be the best place to start.

I divorced an ACTIVE alcoholic (he is still drinking today) in December 2007. Together about 12 years. He never cheated (my opinion all my life has always been, CHEATING IS GROUNDS FOR TERMINATION OF THE RELATIONSHIP - PERIOD) - In any of my adult relationships, i have never been cheated on. Hmmm.. let's say for reality purposes that I've never KNOWN that I was ever cheated on and I've never broken up with or have been broken up with by someone because of cheating. He never physically abused me either, but the mental and drunken verbal abuse was overwhelming and horrible (because he drank at home - always - every day) and the lack of "attention" from him was heartbreaking...he refused to recognize his problem (and I never went to Al Anon) so - we split up. We have a 10 year old son together.

I stayed TOTALLY single, concentrating completely on my son and my job until December of 2009 when I met what I thought was "a man sent to me by God"... and this is how it happened: (i will get to why this type of post is being placed on Sober Recovery.com)

This man's daughter (18) and sister (38) work at a Convenient store across from my house. I'd been going there for years... for 6 months leading up to December 2009, every single time I walked into the store, this man's daughter and sister would come up to me and say "You really need to let me give me brother or dad - (depending on who was saying this to me at the time) your phone number!!!" And for 6 months I told them "thanks so much, but I just don't do blind dates". Needless to say, they were very persistent everytime I came into that store. Finally, they caught me on a good day and I just said "OK!!"... and so the saga begins

He is 41 years old and 10 YEARS SOBER.... 10 YEARS!!! I hope after what you've read above, you can see how that would attract me to him! NO ALCOHOL! WOW! I'm gonna LOVE this... I am not a drinker AT ALL... perfect! He was married for quite a long time -but he changed (became sober) and she did not... they've been divorced now 6 years.

He told me that in those 6 years... it was his 1st girlfriend, immediately after his divorce that he said the words "I love you" too. Only one. Since, he has never said it, nor felt it.

I had him up on a pedistal... now, not to HIM necessarilly... but to my family & friends I placed him high on a pedistal. Sober 10 years, still close with his sponsor, goes to yearly silent retreats with monks, weekly meetings still, does many leads, takes care of his home, job and kids - and continued to pride himself with the same words to me, over & over: "I do not lie Lisa... that is detrimental to my recovery and against all that I've learned in my recovery - I DO NOT LIE" - he has said these words so much that I hear it in my head every day right now - and continue to weep over it, constantly.

I also hear in my head the words that were spoken in LATE February (2 months in)... when HE asked ME to be "his" and be in a committed relationship with him... HE ASKED THIS OF ME... also telling me that he has never wanted THAT either in the 6 years he's been divorced (maybe a 'little bit' he'd say about that 1st girlfriend). So.... it was going so well (in my mind) and he was saying all the right/perfect things that of course I said YES!! I hadn't felt that kind of happiness in 15+ years.

April arrives (4 months in), he tells me that he loves me for the first time... with a twinkle in my eye I respond with the same "I love you so much too!" He also tells me (this is a very important part of the story to me) that he STRONGLY belives that it is now time that he meets my son. Let me explain... this man is my 1ST BOYFRIEND since my son was born! I made a very strict rule for myself that I would not be introducing any man to my son (to avoid him getting attached quickly, because my boy would.. his father isnt much of a father) until I knew FOR SURE that he was the one... I was only trying to protect him. Well, even after him asking me to commit and then telling me he loves me, I was still very worried as it is still a very new relationship and I'm protective over my son... as all parents are. BUT - he pushed and continued to tell me OVER AND OVER - directly to my face: "you are all I have ever wanted or needed and I want us to mve forward together in our lives and I want to be a part of your sons life - PLEASE!" So - he convinced me it was time. Of course they hit it off and became 'friends' quite quickly.

In May, he tells me that one day "I'm going to make you my wife". WOW. WOW! He said I was never going to marry again... ever! But you! Your so different! Can you only imagine how wonderful this made me feel? I don't know that I can express in words how FANTASTIC it felt... again - I havent felt this kind of "true" happines in 15 years. (really.. more than that).

August 15, 2010 arrives and he asks me (and my boy of course) to move in with him. WOW AGAIN! But... this would mean a lot of changes.. big ones... including a little boy.... this means that I would have to sell my home (the home I worked very hard to buy all on my own) I would have to change my sons school (something I hold very true to my heart that I thought I would NEVER do to my child - as my childhood was horribly unstable) My son has been going to the same school with the same children since PRESCHOOL - for 6 years! So, to change my sons school was a BIG, BIG DEAL.
We sat down with my son and talked it over... my son said YES! I want to move in with him, YES!, but do I have to change schools? We told him yes. Even though he was very sad about it... he weighed it out in his mind and said "OK... I can do this - when will we move?" We told him that our target date was October 1st - and this very smart little boy said... "Mom, school will be starting next week... can I start this new school THEN, instead of having to be the "new kid" in October?" I was soooo impressed with his thought pattern and his strength that I agreed "what a GREAT idea!". That week, I went through the motions to withdraw him from his school and enroll him in the NEW school. He has been going to the new school now since August 24th. This is important... I've changed my sons LIFE here !!!

So, here goes...

On Sunday morning, August 29, 2010 - this man got up early to go to work at a side job. Now, let me first start by saying... I have NEVER - my hand to God - snooped and looked in his cell phone... NEVER. But... 4-5 weeks ago he bought a new phone... and that morning he left his OLD phone on the night stand, next to the bed. I cannot tell you what the force was exactly that made me roll over and grab that phone... but I can tell you that part of me wishes I never had. I went to the photos... I will try not to be to descriptive, but the magnitude of it it UNREAL. I found a picture, dated MAY 12, 2010 (right around the time I was told "I want to make you my wife someday", more convincingly than anyone has ever spoke to me before). The picture was of a NAKED woman in HIS KITCHEN, bent over and clutching his refrigerator. There were other pictures of them out in a restaraunt dated in February.. March... and June and other naked pictures from other daysd thoughout my ENTIRE RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM! Not to mention the plethora of text messages to and from her. Did I mention this woman is married? wow.

I lost my mother 7 years ago... I had never felt loss like that before then... and I had never felt pain like that again until NOW. Crushed, betrayed, lied to in such a sophisticated way... such a masterful liar

I sent him a message that morning that I looked in his phone and told him what I had found... i was soooo hurt and angry (understandably I hope?) I'm telling you I was IN SHOCK... literally physical SHOCK. I told him to never contact me again, that what he did to me... carrying on a relationship with another woman THE WHOLE TIME (ouch...OMG ouch) was unforgivable and that he will never see my face again. And that i hate him and now look what I have to do with my son and what do I tell him and how could you do this?? He just begged for forgivness and would ONLY admit to what I had as proof in that phone.

Now...some may not agree with what I'm about to say that I ALSO did... but I have to be honest and tell you ALL, otherwise you can't help me... I found this woman's husband and I called him. I felt strongly that he should know was happening. The next day - SHE CALLED ME! SHE was apologizing TO ME!? Swears she didn't know about me and wouldn't have done this if she had. That her marriage was close to over anyhow, but claims she didn't want to hurt me and then actually cried when i told her about my son.... she continued to swear she that she didn't know about me and my son. She told me everything. EVERYTHING. Things he prayed she wouldn't... actually, he was texting her while I was talking to her begging her to "shut up, enough damage has been done, she is hurt enough, dont tell her anymore!" But she said at this point she had nothing to lose... and wanted to make sure I knew what an absolute liar he was so that I wouldnt "even think about patching things up with him" She told me things that right now are choking me of air just to think about it.

Now that I have probably truly bored you crying the blues here... I'm going to finally get to the reason why I'm posting this HERE. It's because I need help from YOU. My friends, my family... they can't help me, they are too close - and IF I were to tell them (no, I havent told ANYONE) they would FOR SURE angrily tell me that I better be running in the other direction right now... right? Right.

So, if you are still reading this... I hope it's because you have some educated and experienced advise about this "type" of alcoholic... i dont even know if i said that right, i'm obviously so uneducated when it comes to active or receovering alsoholics. But I am lost and torn. And I need HELP... I need EDUCATED AND EXPERIENCED HELP FROM YOU. because here is where I am today, Septmeber 10, 2010:

He wouldn't let me nor will he now "let" me break up with him! Please don't get me wrong.. I'm not a silly school girl and he is not threatening IN ANY WAY... what I mean by he won't let me is.... he is QUITE CONVINCING?? The therapist called him a "master manipulator -a master liar.....but he is begging for forgiveness. He tells me that he CANNOT let me go... that this is the biggest mistake he has ever made -EVER- since the day he stopped drinking. That he is full of shame, that he cannot look himself in the mirror without crying. That it ripped a hole in his heart to see the pain I am in... pleading that I go to counseling with him... that he can promise and assure me that it would never ever happen again. That he is going to re-start his 12 steps with his sponsor becasue his sponsor feels this "must have been a form of self-sabotage" Self-Sabotage?? What?? That he truly feels allll of those things for me, but never ever thought that he would or could feel those feelings for a woman... the feeling of being in love. That he fought it and fought it out of fear of being hurt.

RELENTLESS! in not letting me go.... He is insistant that whatever it was that was wrong with him he is going to fix. that the way he was living was awful and he is going to fix it. that his consequence is the pain he caused me and my son and everyone around us - his entire world was turned upside down and no one in his life claim to have ever seen him with emotions like this and feelings like this for a woman - ever. His best friend of 37 years said he never knew this man could feel anything towards a woman.. let alone this much love and emotion.

What the heck happened? omgoodness, i'm beside myself trying to figure out what happened... what IS happening?

i begged him to tell me what, if anything i may have done wrong - just as a learning and growing tool. he claims -he swears i did NOTHING. he tells me im the most loving and trusting and sincere, happy -sweetest woman he has ever known. i said in our short relationship, have i ever denied you "intimacy" and he answered truthfully - NO. So i beg him and i beg God through my tears to tell me why. WHY? If he is so in love with me, how could he do what he has done?

I'm a strong, independent woman... who would drop a guy for MUCH MUCH less. PLEASE.... tell me...

Why am I not gone? Why am I even still considering giving him the chance to attempt to earn my trust back?

Will i really EVER truly trust him again? Will i ever forgive him?

I am praying now and once I post this I will continue to pray that someone out there on this site has the time in their busy lives to have read this post and have some helpful insight, experience and/or advise for me.

I PRAY.

Thank you so much for listening... i wrote so much because if i want true advise... you would have to know just about all of it.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:07 PM
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The therapist called him a "master manipulator -a master liar.

I tend to agree with the therapist. He sounds awfully pushy and I just do not trust pushy people. If it were me, I would tell him it is over, then block him from my phone and email and have absolutely no contact with him whatsoever. I wouldn't trust him any farther than I could pick him up and throw him.

I'd also find another convenience store with which to do business.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:23 PM
  # 3 (permalink)  
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Oh, I'm so sorry.

I've been there, Lostfrmbetrayal. All the words, the begging, the desperate pleas to come back. And I did. And I couldn't get over the fact that my exA was continuing to contact the "other", who was married, and no matter how many times I heard about how it "wasn't sexual anymore" I couldn't get over it.

All of the words worked for a while because I had given up so much to be with her. I wasn't ready to be alone and had to keep going back until the pain of going back was greater than the pain of facing my own fear.

I still work to maintain the "sobriety" I have--staying away from her for almost 6 months now. It's a huge relief, and yet, just today someone told me that they remember seeing us together and felt that we had something "special." We did. And maybe you had "something special" with him. But "special" is not enough, my friend. I know that I couldn't ever get "over" the fact that she CHOSE to break my heart over and over. That relationship is another one of her addictive behaviors, in my opinion. Being dry and being sober are 2 different things.

I'm so sorry for you and your son. I hope you'll keep coming back here. Sending you big, big hugs~
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:34 PM
  # 4 (permalink)  
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oh my, so much pain and heartbreak!

sometimes we have a saying around here....sober up a drunken horse thief and you still have a horse thief.

I can hear the sheer shock and astonishment in your head and heart.
I am so very sorry this has happened to you and your son and your life.

I can't explain what he did...but it came from a very calculated and cold hearted place.
Love does not do this....no excuses.
It sounds like he is well practiced in deceit.

You have NO BASIS to trust him one more second, not realistically.

I believe you have been and are being conned and I am sorry to say that to you knowing how very much it hurts.

You deserve everything you hoped you had found and I hope you will free yourself from this nightmare, heal and give yourself and your son that opportunity in life.

No one can stop you from leaving...that is your choice.
You can choose to stay but I shudder at the thought of a future of more and more grief and pain.

You have been abused.

You did not cause it.
You can't cure it.
You can't control it.

It must be hard to hear your own heart and voice with that full-out camapign to sway and control you.
Very glad you have a therapist to help you negotiate this horrid turn in your life.

and here's some ((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:01 PM
  # 5 (permalink)  
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It's very telling that the only reason he stopped is because he got caught.

If he hadn't been caught, would it have continued indefinitely?

Would she be there any time you're not?
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:07 PM
  # 6 (permalink)  
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Naw.......get the Abandonment book some of us are reading......that damn book....you can't trust him anymore......honesty is the biggie in recovery.......I hope you haven't sold your house. Your son can go back to his school with his old friends, and you can go back to your life and maybe to Alanon. You are experiencing abandonment added to every other time you have experienced it before. Be grateful you found out before you married him. Let go or be dragged. Ask yourself maybe why you choose alcoholics? You will be ok. You survived the other one. No contact really is best.
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Old 09-11-2010, 02:24 AM
  # 7 (permalink)  
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Your story is like mine and like so many others. Minor details are different, but the manipulative tactics are the same. Read past posts, then read more. Every day, every week, there is another similar one. Sometimes, even when advised not to, we have to make our own mistakes. This is one time you don't want to. All that lies ahead is more pain. Your trust is broken. You have doubts and suspicions. These will haunt you.

You sound like you are a strong woman. Gather up your self-respect, hold your head high, admit you made a mistake, take time to heal and continue raising your son. He is the one that needs you, not this grown man that lies and cheats.

I, like all here, understand the hurt, sadness and overall injustice. It's not fair that we give our trust and take risks to love only to have it squashed by the one person we held so close to our heart.

I just wasted a whole year trying to hang on to a relationship that was sour from the start. I wanted to have faith in our "love" that was so "special". But when one scrapes away all the sugar coating, it's the facts that are left--plain, simple and basic.

You will find a lot of support here, whenever you are in need. Always look for the positive, no matter how small it may seem. Take care.
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Old 09-11-2010, 04:42 AM
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I have been begging God, with tears, for a long time to explain how my AH could have done what he has done. The magnitude of the deceit and betrayal is numbing, isn't it? I have only one piece of advice: NEVER trust him again. NEVER

You don't ask God why there's a snake in the garden do you? Or a scorpion in the cellar. You say, "Oh, there's a scorpion or Oh, there's a snake." You recognize the danger and you avoid it. Do it now -- don't imagine God has a mission for you with this man.
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Old 09-11-2010, 05:03 AM
  # 9 (permalink)  
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Hi Lost

I agree with Firestorm - if he hadn't got caught...

MY RAH has lied (hopefully not about cheating but other things) and he would say sorry - but it's ok cause he admitted it- so he did the right thing - NO! you got caught then admitted it. Not the same thing.

If I were you I would forget you ever knew this man. As far as your son - this guy was just a big mistake - forget him and move on.

Another thing - you could anyone - no offense I'm sure you are awesome. But you are probubly just the next in a long line of other poor unsuspecting woman. And you won't be the last.

And if he has lied about the girl then the saying "I love you to only you" and the monk thing - it's all crap.

Save yourself - it will just be an endless nightmare!

:ghug3 hug for you and keep posting
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Old 09-11-2010, 06:12 AM
  # 10 (permalink)  
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I am sorry for you lost. I think this guy is what he is and I don't think he should use his alcoholism as an excuse. If he does you shouldn't accept that. People cheat, non-alkies and alkies alike.

I won't offer an opinion on whether you should stay and go. You need to look inside and see what you should do. Can you ever trust him again? I don't think you can and there is your answer.

Good luck. There is a lot of support here. Keep us posted.
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Old 09-11-2010, 06:53 AM
  # 11 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Live View Post
sometimes we have a saying around here....sober up a drunken horse thief and you still have a horse thief.
This.
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Old 09-11-2010, 07:03 AM
  # 12 (permalink)  
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I think you and only you have to decide what you are willing to accept and not accept from the relationship. Some people can live with one infidelity, or even more (think of Hillary Clinton)--it sounds like you are NOT one of those people, given what you said up front in your post about cheating being the line in the sand for anyone you have a relationship with.

It is possible to adjust those boundaries and accept him for who he is, I suppose--accept that he will probably cheat again, and will certainly lie to you (he made a point of saying he doesn't lie, and then committed the ultimate lie). If you get from the relationship so much that it balances out the fact that he is a manipulator, a liar, a cheater, continue with the relationship.

Also, I hate to say it, but 10 years of sobriety doesn't mean that much--he is still one drink away from being an active alcoholic. Not to demean his sobriety and the wonderful accomplishment in sobriety he has maintained at all--but you, like him, will have to accept that blessing just one day at a time and not pin your future on it.

If anything happens to my relationship with my AH, I personally would rather not go into a relationship with anyone who has ANY history of alcoholism--I've gotten too many bumps from falling off the wagon with all the As in my life. And I do know lots of absolutely wonderful RAs... I've just been burned too much.
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Old 09-11-2010, 07:42 AM
  # 13 (permalink)  
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He is a con artist, a person who will do anything to get what he wants, hence all the begging now...for another chance...to do it again. He is a sick man who cannot be trusted. As soon as he feels he can get away with it, he will cheat again.

You have a child to consider, he does not need to be exposed to a man like this one.

You said that you are an independent woman, show us, think with your head not your heart, walk away from this dive bomber. He has nothing to offer you, but, grief and heartache.
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Old 09-11-2010, 07:47 AM
  # 14 (permalink)  
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Omg RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-11-2010, 07:51 AM
  # 15 (permalink)  
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I agree with people that said "drop him" and move on. If the relationship is starting with lies, cheating and manipulation, how will it be a few months from now. I strongly beleive he will not change. I lived with a master manipulator for 12 yrs, until he almost made me beleive that it was all my fault and that I was a no good person. When I divorced, I felt 20 yrs younger and happier..

I know it's painful now, and unbelievalbe, and you're still in schock, but the sooner you get away from him, the clearly you will see things.

Don't feel a failure, this relationshiop might just have been a step to your best one yet.

Just before I met my husband I was in a relationship that clearly was not going anywhere, but I was so desperate for it, I kept looking for reasons and excuses of why to stay.

Then I got sick and tired and didn't like the feeling like as if I was the begger in the relationship. I moved on and found the love of my life.
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Old 09-11-2010, 08:32 AM
  # 16 (permalink)  
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May I say please.. that I am MOST THANKFULL that all of you actually took the time to read my story! I am AMAZED that you all took time out of your day to read this and reply... so, so very grateful.

There must be something wrong with me if I was expecting... or should I say HOPING that I would get a different kind of reply.

I was hoping maybe that someone would have been able educate me more about alcoholism and that someone, if not all would say to me:

"as long as he gets help -he will and you guys will be ok"

That's not the case -is it?

He tells me -just this morning, via text message -EXACTLY:

"It is so funny Lisa that it seems everytime you tell the story everyone tells you to RUN - but when I tell the story people say "what a blessing that we are trying to work through it"

How can that be? Our stories MATCH.. i know they do. Other than his feelings and mine.. our stories match....So how can this be true?

His sponsor is telling us "we should be living together to work thru this" and that as long as he begins his steps again... everything is going to be ok.

How come we are told 2 different things?

SO SCARED AND CONFUSED.
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Old 09-11-2010, 08:42 AM
  # 17 (permalink)  
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OK, now that I've calmed down a little here is my feedback. But I have to tell you, the entire time I was reading your post and for at least three minutes afterward, my ENTIRE body was covered in goose bumps. I felt like I was watching the events you described unfolding before my eyes. I felt like I was watching a horror film.

I am having a really hard time answering your post. I want so badly to tell you what to do. I think your story is a HUGE trigger for me. I want to tell you things to convince you to get away from this monster as quickly as you possibly can.

I think you need to go to Al-Anon. Here is a locator: How to find a meeting in the US/Canada/Puerto Rico. Please go.

Here I offer my own perspective. Please take what you like and leave the rest.

CHEATING IS GROUNDS FOR TERMINATION OF THE RELATIONSHIP - PERIOD
This is one of your obviously very strong morals/values. Always remain true to your morals and values. When we do not remain true to them, we lose our way. We inherit someone else's false compass. Follow YOUR OWN compass, not his or anyone else's. Look for other ways you may have ignored your own compass and make note of those things and what convinced you to ignore your morals and values. Notice how doing so snowballs.

I met what I thought was "a man sent to me by God"
I have done this too. I have placed many men on a pedestal and thought that God must have sent him to me. Now that I have done this almost ten times, I finally have learned that God does not send men to me. I CHOOSE the men I get involved with. I understand that I have the tendency to make the man I am involved with my Higher Power (my God). No, I don't get on my knees and bow down and chant or say prayers to him, but I give my own personal power over to him and follow him. I have learned that I have to follow God as my Higher Power, not a man. This does not mean I have to belong to any established religion. It also means that I must have a strong sense of what I need for my life now and in the future. It means that I have a very strong idea of where I want to be 5, 10, 20, and even 30 years from now. And I have to be 100% responsible for my own wants, dreams and desires. It means I cannot hand responsibility for those things over to someone else. My life is between me and my Higher Power.
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Old 09-11-2010, 08:46 AM
  # 18 (permalink)  
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Please tell me you did not sell your house.
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Old 09-11-2010, 08:48 AM
  # 19 (permalink)  
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No, I hadn't yet sold my house.
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Old 09-11-2010, 08:53 AM
  # 20 (permalink)  
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Are you in therapy? Can you go to Al-Anon? Do you have support in your community? Please know that your family can be a very important source of support.

Is there some reason why you cannot move back to your own house while you figure out what you want to do about the relationship?
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