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Old 10-16-2010, 09:48 PM
  # 181 (permalink)  
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L2L,
My impression:

very caring and empathetic. If I had some major stuff going on I would want you as a girlfriend in my life f2f....or counselor.

The piece where you spoke about "false compass" had me do a doubletake and I re-read that part several times! Awesome!

Your message is strong and gently shared...very clear.

But what really grabbed me emotionally...was that simple post following that said "Please tell me you didn't sell your house."
That speaks volumes and volumes!

Your vivid share about your own experience and how it tore you up...your story...very powerful and helpful. Thank you for being willing to bring up something so very painful and personal.

And, God love it....I got a giggle (and admiration for your creativity) at the story of Eve and "grab the effing shovel.."

Thank you so much for speaking up about the mental health results...I don't speak about my mental health issues on this forum very much.
Very courageous and right on!
PTSD is a too common result of this kind of thing, as is depression and anxiety.
You didn't specify and I don't care to either right now.

I am certain I have neglected many things..but we are rather known to each other and the common messages and implicit understandings amongst so many of us...I probably take for granted.
applause!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-17-2010, 01:28 AM
  # 182 (permalink)  
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Our stories are so very similar . . . single, outgoing, independent mom. I remember clearly the shock and horror of what you are experiencing.

I went back to him. . . many times.

It got MUCH, MUCH worse.

I truly wish I had walked away immediately. When I was where you are - I hurt so badly. By the time he was done with me . . . I was almost destroyed. . . literally.

I wish you the best.

True
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:01 PM
  # 183 (permalink)  
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Live honey you are one sensitive, intuitive woman. I love every one of your posts. Thank you for your observations and feedback. I like the way you organize things in your mind and share from the heart. You are truly my sister.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:08 PM
  # 184 (permalink)  
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Hey, L2L, I have been noticing that too....sisters.

When I laid down more things kept whirling into my head that I wish I had shared those observances with you...

unfortunately..(oh, wait FORTUNATELY) I then fell asleep.

I do remember that I wanted to tell you that your AUTHENTICITY in your initial big
OMG RUN
was a necessary (I am grateful you are at home enought with yourself) post in this thread.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:27 PM
  # 185 (permalink)  
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Live commented:
He will prove to you that you don't call the shots, he does.
I agree. And I agree with what Live said about this being abuse.

When we are abused, we often do not recognize the behavior as abuse. We think abuse means getting punched so hard we get a black eye or being pushed down the stairs. And even then we do not recognize that the behavior is abuse, because we think it is our fault and that we DESERVED the black eye and being pushed down the stairs. We often believe it is our fault and we deserved it because the abuser often tells us so, either directly or indirectly, through the words "It's your fault I ..." or through manipulations and mindgames.

Which is what he is doing to you. Playing mindgames. They NEVER take responsibility for their own actions, they blame it on everybody and everything but themselves. One of my A&AXBF's blamed his father for everything that was wrong in his life, for DECADES. Or, they blame it on fate. Another A&AXBF of mine blamed everything in life that went wrong on "The Black Cloud that follows me around everywhere."

Yes, they even blame it on untreated alcoholism. But here's the thing, lostfrmbetrayal, there is NO SUCH THING as blame. It is a human CONSTRUCT, something we convince ourselves in our minds, in order to remain in denial and continue doing the $hitty and ****** up things we do to others. But remember, they really BELIEVE the excuses they come up with for their bad behavior. That is what makes them "sick."

The person you have been involved with is sick. He has a sick way of thinking and a sick way of living and as long as you continue to be involved with him, in any way, shape or form, you will continue to feel like ****. The more time and distance you get from a sick person, the faster you will feel better. In my experience I have gotten well the fastest by throwing all his **** out on the front lawn, calling him on the phone and telling him to come get it, and washing my hands of it. If you personally can't do it that way for whatever reason, I would take ONE day and pack it all up and put it out at the curb and tell him to get it or the trashman will get it on the next trash day.

You still feel horrible because you have not gotten away from that sick man long enough. Think of it like the flu. When you get the flu, you go to the drugstore and buy all the best stuff for yourself so that you can feel the best fastest and get back up on your feet: You take GOOD CARE of yourself. You stay in bed and nurture yourself. You call a close friend or family member if you are really sick and need help. You might even go to the doctor or the hospital if it is really bad.

Remember this: Sick people will make you sick. Avoid them like the plague.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:33 PM
  # 186 (permalink)  
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Live, I am replying to you by posting a new thread.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:46 PM
  # 187 (permalink)  
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Sounds like you've got a stalker on your hands. If he won't leave you alone, file a protection order. My recovery process is also complicated by a stalker. Every time I try to take steps in the right direction he slanders me online, makes fun of my drug addictions, etc. Right now I've done all I can legally and am just waiting on the law...it's a slow process but the end can be found, Im sure.
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Old 10-17-2010, 01:21 PM
  # 188 (permalink)  
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Oh, I have to add one more thing. Another way we hurt ourselves and stay sick WITH them is by buying into THEIR way of thinking, by believing that THEIR behavior has something to do with US. We are unable to separate the two.

What happens is, we either have compromised self-confidence and self-esteem to begin with (going into the relationship), or our self-confidence and self-esteem are eroded over time by allowing ourselves to continue to be exposed to the other person's hurtful behavior. Either way, we begin to believe that everything they do in the relationship is OUR FAULT because we allow ourselves to feel bad about ourSELVES (for example we think, "He cheated on me because I am too fat" or "If he loved me he would not do that"). And anyone and anything that says or does something that tells us we SHOULD feel bad about ourselves just digs the hole even deeper for us. Every time I have fallen into the habit of blaming myself for being treated badly like this, allowing myself to continue in a relationship that makes me feel bad about me, it has taken me YEARS to get out of it, to stop, and to rebuild my self-confidence and self-esteem. Now, though, after going through it so many times through so many relationships, I think I am strong enough to SEE it and get out of the relationship EARLY ENOUGH to prevent further damage to ME and my psyche. ANYONE who causes me to doubt or feel bad about ME is OUT--NOT ALLOWED in my life AT ALL. And that stands for ALL relationships, not just "romantic" ones.

It's like Iyanla VanZant says: When you see crazy comin', CROSS THE STREET.
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Old 10-17-2010, 05:08 PM
  # 189 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Live View Post
What has been going on over the last few weeks, if you feel like sharing?
Since the whole schmeal is progressive, it might help us better to understand what is going on now.

People here really are not judging you.....we care.

(hope i did that "quote part" right)

LIVE

The last 49 days have been overwhelming, to say the least.

Since I have still told no one, I've been in this alone - aside from the help here on SR. I strayed from SR for a couple of weeks because I wondered why I was allowing "strangers" to give me advice about a relationship they hadn't been living every day?
That they knew nothing about?
Why am I allowing people who don't even know me... or him to read only MY story and then express judgement?
Why am I pouring my heart out on the internet to people who have no idea who I am or what I've REALLY been going through?

.....then it dawned on me. WOW.. no other 'people' EVER have been MORE right.

Let's back up though -

A day hasn't gone by since 8-29-10 that he hasn't done everything in his power to convince me that staying with him would be the best choice I could ever make in my life. The 58 cell phone calls a day. The literally 100-120 text messages a day... the emails... the instant messages... the phone calls at work... trying to show me he is now transparent and being as "accountable" as humanly possible and portraying emmence remorse and sadness. My favorite is: "I know my whole life has changed because of this Lisa, I'll never be that person again." and "I get the mind-movies too Lisa, except mine are of the pain I saw in your face that day. I'd never seen emotional pain like that before." I ALLOWED it all to continue.

You see... I am not proud of what I am about to say - but I am a truth seeker and if I want to TRULY help myself as I've always wanted to do in my life... then HONESTY is the only way to get there. By honesty... I mean honesty ABOUT MYSELF.

I ALLOWED him to continue to 'persuade' me on how good it's going to be now. Because that is what my HEART needed. I continued to allow him to convince and coerce me into believing that I WILL heal one day, even with him - and I WILL be able to trust him again - and I WILL have a wonderful life with him. Again, all the while ALLOWING it because this is what my heart needs so badly. It felt good to me that he was miserable... it felt good to me that he was hurting... I WANTED him to grovel... continue to show his overwhelming remorse... continue to kiss my ass and do and say whatever I wanted. Loved it... I'm sick too, remember? So again, I'm not very proud of this behavior of mine... and thank goodness I'm not proud of it... thank goodness.

For 49 days I've been battling MYSELF!!! Not HIM!!! Not what happened... but MYSELF!

My heart keeps telling me to run to him, because he loves you so much and NEEDS you so much and is soooooo very miserable without you... RUN! RUN TO HIM..... because THIS is what is going to make that CRIPPLING pain go away in my HEART. ....and it did. ... it worked everytime. it temporarilly healed my heart... for the moment.

My brain and my gut however... they STRONGLY disagree. They KNOW Lisa.. they know her pretty f'ing well!

Here is how they battled:

When I ALLOWED my heart to take control and spend time with him... it was a FALSE sense of RELIEF. I know this now... But when my heart was in control... I was the Lisa that I haved missed sooooo much for so many weeks now... it was the caring, somber, loving, sweet, attentive, sensitive, empathetic, helpful, calm, selfless, giving and happy Lisa that had been missing for so long. It made me feel "good" and as much as he enjoyed me being that way again - I was able to see (even when he thought for sure I wasn't looking) that he did feel bad. It was almost like when I was the 'real' Lisa... he would feel worse - he would hate himself more for what he did when I was "nice & sweet".

So... I would go on for 1 full day being "myself" again...
but then POW!!!! I would wake up the next morning and the moment I sat up in bed a very heavy baseball bat came barrelling at my head..... BAM!!
Time to SELF-PUNISH!
Screaming at myself.... how DARE you be so nice to that son-of-a-bitch? How DARE you show him any sensitivity... any empathy, sweetness and selflessness!!!!!!!!! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU???!!

Ya know, nothing is WRONG with me! I'm a human being... I'm a GOOD human being, with a gracious heart... and if that's a crime... then we need more criminals! That's just Lisa TRYING to forgive.. so I can get that instant gratification of a "painless heart" - we are only human to want to stop hurting... and to do almost anything to make it stop hurting.

I would HATE myself for DAYS, just for being nice to him for one day.

I took it out on him. HARSHLY... BADLY... I thought because he was willing to take it, it was what I was SUPPOSED to be doing. I thought it was what was going to make my brain and gut part "feel better" -But it made me feel worse... even UGLY. It also scared me something awful to think: "Remember what you're mom said... if you keep your eyes crossed like that for too long, they'll stay that way!" I got scared... if I continue on like this... I might STAY this way! The Lisa I personally worked hard to become would vanish - and I would be this nasty, bitter bitch that would only grow old alone.

Counseling was OK... I decided that I would not go back to the 1st one that HE located. I found my own. I called the therapist that got me through my mothers death. I was comfortable with him.. but we only saw him once. Our second appointment was last week. I cancelled it and re-scheduled an appointment for JUST ME.

No, I wasn't married to this man... but when I committed to him and decided that I was not going to date nor have any emotional or sexual relationships with any other men because of my committment to him... having that piece of paper or not didn't mean anything when it comes to MY MORALS. I was committed... I was in it for "better or worse" - married or not. A committment is a commitment - and my word is my word. I personally, take my WORD very seriously.

SO

I never moved out of my house. Never put it on the market.

I swallowed ALL of my pride (and I know you will all think this is silly.... but dammit! this was one of the hardest parts!!!) and I walked into my sons original school with my head held as high as I could raise it.... only 5 weeks from when I was there last to WITHDRAW him.... I was so full of fear that my son's school was going to view me as UNSTABLE... UNFIT... UNABLE to keep a stable household for this child... sooo scared.

But... I've learned that you can't be brave without first being scared.

I changed him back to his original school and re-enrolled him in his original daycare facility. Since... my brain and intelligence have shown up again (man-o-man they have been showing up A LOT MORE lately ) and I realized that I'm smarter than that to think that way because I'm actually doing the stable thing here.. not the unstable thing! I realized duh.. do you have to tell them what REALLY happened? Hell no! Goodness NO! LOL Just change him back with your head held high and with "matter-of-fact" in your voice and your tone and that's it!!

Know what? That was it! I stressed soooooo long... weeks I waited to make this change out of humiliation... that it was going to be "one of the hardest things I've ever had to do" - turns out... I did it just like I said I would... and I received only smiles and "ok's" -

It took a degree of acceptance to make the change.... because I know also, that deep down it was fact.. if I move my son back to his original school knowing no matter what, I'll never uproot him like that again - well... that kinda means I've just put a nail in my relationships coffin....

My son is soooooo happy to be back in his school - it's been 2 weeks now... however he is very sad that we aren't moving in - "YET".

DON'T FREAK OUT - I am NOT moving in with this man.. and agree with me or not.. this is how I've decided to handle things with my son... I will "ween" him off of this man, while keeping them seperated 100% of the time. It'll work.. I'm sure of it.

So - where am I with HIM since I moved my son back? Well... 1st off, the day before my appointment to move him back he did everything in his power to change my mind... EVERYTHING. Because he also KNEW... if I move my son back - there is NO chance that I'm moving into HIS home, at least not anytime soon --in his mind... not to mention, I had already advised him that I truly don't give a **** that you have torn up your house. I've now come to the conclusion that I will NEVER live in THAT house. So then what's his next con? "OK.. then I'm fixing this one up as quick as possible, selling it and buying us a new home.... OUR home Lisa - that WE can share.. and we can have a great life"...

Now.. these past 6 days... leading up to just yesterday (Saturday) morning.. I have been the WORST to him that I have EVER been to ANYONE. I think secretly hoping that he would finally throw his hands up -tell me F-U and be done already! Cuz my coward ass is scared to death to make a choice... I can't dare trust my own judgement right now! Look at where my original judgement got me! I can't trust myself! Please... tell me to F-off and GO ! It never came... he just keeps taking the abuse.... showing the remorse and telling me how sorry he is and how much he loves me still.

I took a HUGE step yesterday.. mole hill to you guys - MOUNTAIN for me - but I got to the other side... no matter how bad I wanted him to continue to validate and help "make my heart feel better" with his text messages and loving and convincing phone calls... I took the step to subscribe to "Smart Limits" through AT&T for $5 a month - can block up to 15 phone #s on my cell.

I DID IT !!!!! It took me 6 hours from when I purchased this feature (lol) but -never the less... I DID IT! I blocked allll his phone #'s... I'm sure that this is going to bring me some anguish tomorrow at work... he WILL blow my phone up tomorrow at work - but... like a big girl - I'll cross that bridge when I get to it (a mere 13 hours from now) and I'll solve it tomorrow - cuz I still gotta get through today!

So... he called, got blocked and then...... You got it! He came to my house. I had my son home... neighbors all around - I was so embarrassed that he was saying "awe Lisa, come on... let me in... I have your Sweetest Day present.. cmon!" He's never been violent with me... however still - I told him to meet me on the back patio... that we can talk for a few minutes there.

It's a good thing I did... It only made me stronger!

Ironically, before he came over - I came BACK to SR and re-read my post/thread... it's AMAZING what I missed while in the fog !! WOWOWOOW!!! I'm a bit stronger now... have always been a tough girl.. a fighter.. and maaan.. re-reading really hit home.

So as he was talking to me... pulling out all his same tricks - can I just say that all he did was VALIDATE everything that everyone has been saying here all along... I was ACTUALLY able... through some miracle.. to SEE each and every single trait of a sociopath with every single slimy word that came from his lips... even sicker? WE BOTH KNEW IT !!! He knows I'm on "a site" that is schooling me about his kind... he MUST have seen the lightbulb go off in my head... I swear to you he saw it... we both just smiled.. in a sick way! He knew I was seeing right through it! He flipping knew it!! I believe they have that skill too....

That was yesterday afternoon. He can't call so resorted to email.. "I'm fricking dyin' over here Lisa, I should be there with you" - my immediate thought was

"hmmmm... why do you say that? Then WHERE are you and with WHOM are you with?"

Now please understand... I don't think I neccessarily give a crock where or with whom he is with anymore... the point is - that what my brain had just absorbed with that thought was the TRUTH. The truth that no matter what, I will ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS think that and feel that with someone who has done this to me.
And you know what? I'm better than that...I DESERVE better than that... my son deserves a mother that seeks TRUE happiness.. a mother that doesn't SETTLE or live the rest of her life "getting over something... or simply learning how to live with something".

No more. His emails have all been blocked. I've blocked his instant messages in my messenger window... and then did one even better. Since I have his passwords to his messenger accounts... I logged in as him and removed every trace of me there had ever been. I've blocked him from my son's phone (because he called it at 3am - bad call on his part, cuz I saw it coming and had my sons phone by my side in case... and because it just continues to validate my current feelings.) Blocked from my home phone as well. Again work... work is my next "blocking obstacle".

So today... I'm still feeling strong. I don't know what tomorrow morning is going to bring... and I don't know what he is going to do tomorrow (or even tonight) as he continues to grow more and more desperate (finding other phone #'s to call me from - because if he blocks his phone # before calling, that comes thru and he still at least gets the opportunity to leave me a coercive, convincing message).

But.. I guess I'll have to just wait and see what's next and hope that my decisions are the RIGHT decisions... because then I know I'll get through whatever is coming my way.

So, how have I done guys? are you a little proud of me? I know it's not much - and it "took me long enough" but it sure seems HUGE to me... it's a step is SOME direction!
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Old 10-17-2010, 07:26 PM
  # 190 (permalink)  
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Girl, "not much"??? You have done AWESOME!!!! And yes, I have to admit, I felt proud of you reading your last post. WOW.

I'd like to post more but am too tired but I do want to tell you one thing. I don't want to scare you but please keep your safety first in your mind. Please do not meet with him alone and keep your doors locked. I am not saying be paranoid but be safe. People do some even out-of-character things when breakups occur, especially when they carry a lot of guilt, shame and blame which it sounds like he is doing. Good for you for seeing it for what it is and choosing to no longer participate in that type of abusive relationship.
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Old 10-17-2010, 08:17 PM
  # 191 (permalink)  
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Lady,

I can identify with every one of your feelings. You see, I have never told you where I come from when I came here.

You are leap years ahead of me in terms of your ability to be honest with yourself while you are in it...and such clarity of thinking and then decisive action.

I vacillitated much much longer than you have.

I am so unbelievably glad that you can see him for what he is now.

That many phone calls and texts is a kind of scary thing to me. okay just plain real worrisome.

If I have been able to help you at all it is only because it it so utterly, eeirly familiar to me that you just wouldn't hardly believe it.

We have been talking about abusive relationships today...and when I remember what was going on and how close things came in the end...I cry and I cry because SR saved my life. It really moves me....this stuff isn't just words to me.

I am so happy for you that you are moving on, seeing the truth and insist on having the very wonderful life you and your son deserve.
Also a great deal of relief that your son won't be exposed to such a deep level of sickness.

You are more rational than I am right now..
But huge congratulations.
SO, glad you came back..you will always be welcome.

Your eloqence and clarity is so outstanding.

((((((((((((((big hugs)))))))))))))))
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Old 10-17-2010, 08:21 PM
  # 192 (permalink)  
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Can I come back tomorrow to chat with you with a clear head? (mine, that is)
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Old 10-17-2010, 08:51 PM
  # 193 (permalink)  
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You've done amazingly!!! You should be verry proud of yourself and I think you're doing the right thing with your son too. Telling him he will never see him again can be scary for a little one, "yet" is a great idea because eventually he'll just forget.

I too would be worried about the sheer number of calls and texts. This is definitely a man who is used to getting his own way. I believe he will step it up a notch before he gives in. Be careful and stay safe. x
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:11 PM
  # 194 (permalink)  
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Way to go, Lisa! Reading your story of all those steps you just took, and how savvy you were (to keep your son's phone for instance) was impressive.

You are doing good, and yes, honesty helps immensely, doesn't it?
When you see yourself clearly, you know where you've been and where you need to go.

Take good care, and keep us posted.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:02 AM
  # 195 (permalink)  
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Yea, I agree, you did good and your intuition is strong and you have enough courage to follow it. I know all too well sometimes, even when we feel in our gut something is wrong, we stay in it until it hits us flat in the face more than a few times in order to recognize the sign.

I've been through that myself. Just remember to move forward in a sense that you find OTHER things to focus on instead of just battling him. Even if you get really lonely, stay away.

I remember feeling that I'd rather die alone than go back to my ex in any way shape or form. Of course, I found someone much much better.
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Old 10-24-2010, 10:42 AM
  # 196 (permalink)  
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he used.

10 years. ****and he used.

this was the first weekend since nc that my son was away with his dad. **he couldn't reach me/get to me. *he drove himself crazy when all I would have had to do was answer the fricking phone and he wouldn't have done it!
I am so responsible for the 10 years of sobriety he had that are now gone. *had I only answered the phone. *

now I feel even worse. **I shouldn't have been so selfish. *I should of helped him. **he is a person, another human being and having the knowledge of knowing I could have helped him (15 minutes on the phone.... that's it) ...but I didn't. *i failed and made a huge mistake.. *everyone is telling me nc, nc, nc. **!!!! **and this is what happens. *

I do... I feel so responsible for this. *what about his kids? his grandkids? **what now? **it all is and is all going to be my fault. **
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Old 10-24-2010, 11:00 AM
  # 197 (permalink)  
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YOU did not cause this man to use. He made that decision completely and solely by himself and for himself! HE did it, not you, NOT your decision to go no contact!

Manipulation at its finest is at work here. Please remember that manipulation is one of their sharpest skills. This is guilt shifting...they are exceptionally good at transferring blame. A healthy, truly healthy man would not be using and blaming you for his use. You are not responsible for his well-being. That is his job alone.

Huge hugs to you. Please go easy on yourself. This is not your fault, Lost!!!
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Old 10-24-2010, 11:25 AM
  # 198 (permalink)  
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How do you know he used? How do you know that he has not been using all along? You don't. Actually he has been using, YOU have been his drug and since he can't have you he may have turned to something else.

If he did, it's NOT yours to own. No one is powerful enough to stop someone else from using or make them use.

You are NOT responsible for him and he is just trying to hook you back in. Do you want to be with someone who holds you responsible for their behavior?
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Old 10-24-2010, 11:56 AM
  # 199 (permalink)  
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Oh, sweetie, don't you think that if we had that much power of someone's choices that this board would not exist? Because then we could all stop the alcoholics in our lives from drinking and all would be hunky dory.

He had choices. That he chose to use (if, in fact, he did) is on him. And if he is blaming you for that choice and you are blaming yourself, then what do you envisage your future together to be? One of sweetness and light and love or one of tip-toeing around and blame-shifting? ETA: I have just read back to your first post - he had even more choices than most. He had a whole support network around him - his sponsor, his retreat contacts etc. Why would this be laid on your shoulders?

Can you seek out some support in real life? Friends, family or al-anon, perhaps?
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Old 10-24-2010, 06:20 PM
  # 200 (permalink)  
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I seriously doubt that THIS self-reported relapse was the first. Lisa, please go to Al-Anon.
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