I Drank After 2 Years and Six Months: I’m in Despair
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Chester, UK
Posts: 684
We can take it as a given that anyone posting on this thread wishes the best for Tatsy. All we can do is try to say what has helped us, within the constraints of the forum, and hope that at least some of it helps. For me, anyway, it's never just one thing I read or hear that suddenly sorts a problem out, it's always a number of things over time that I think about and come to my own understanding of them. The beauty of this forum is that, while we probably all wish we could say that one thing that would really help Tatsy, it's more likely that it's the sharing of a variety of personal experiences that, hopefully, makes a difference. And because a lot of different perspectives have been put forward in this thread I wouldn't be surprised if Tatsy feels the need for some time out now and again while she accommodates all the input. The important thing is that she keeps coming back.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
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Well I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I think vulnerability can be a powerful antidote to shame. Things we hide from others (or project) are often things we can’t accept in ourselves, and therefore remain “out of our reach” so to speak. That applies to a lot more than just alcoholism, so is not meant to pertain or not pertain to any specific recovery method.
While I still think it’s a form of projection (just with no 2nd party involved), AVRT works. There’s no doubt in my mind about that. Tatsy has already recognized it’s her AV that exploits others supportive words to confirm a narrative that she is powerless, when in reality she is not. You are capable and worthy of stopping completely Tatsy. Imo any discussion about whether it’s best to do it alone or with support from others is just further engaging and entertaining the AV. Does it really matter? My mantra in the beginning was whatever it took.
It’s totally possible to use one’s own power to quit drinking while not being closed off and isolated at the same time.
While I still think it’s a form of projection (just with no 2nd party involved), AVRT works. There’s no doubt in my mind about that. Tatsy has already recognized it’s her AV that exploits others supportive words to confirm a narrative that she is powerless, when in reality she is not. You are capable and worthy of stopping completely Tatsy. Imo any discussion about whether it’s best to do it alone or with support from others is just further engaging and entertaining the AV. Does it really matter? My mantra in the beginning was whatever it took.
It’s totally possible to use one’s own power to quit drinking while not being closed off and isolated at the same time.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
Tats,
Well you sure have a huge number of supporters who love you, that much is clear!
Sohard may not have followed O's thread of which you are a huge and indeed much loved and important part, so I will forgive the coffee clutch comments.
By asking for coffee, you know we are just saying that we support you, that is it, and of course we congratulate you.
But you scared us (and yourself) when you stopped again and then started again quickly with a vengance ( as we all would BTW). It was this concern (and your question to Fini) that lead to the thoughts about what you might add to your toolbox. I suggested you might check out Hip Sobriety, others had other thoughts.
But as O said, although you can and did prove that you can stop drinking without any o/s help (as Dee and I did and many others), this does not fix the rest.
I have a genius therapist guru, other have other ways. But I was having a chat with a renowned psychiatrist one day who said that he tells everyone that if that cannot afford therapy, [] is the best free therapy in the world. I know it did not work for you, but others may not know that.
If I lived in the US, I may go myself to try and solve my issues, but luckily I have my guru for that. Not everyone is so lucky.
I do think that most people, not only drinkers, have underlying issues that if they could solve, they would be happier.
And isnt that the point!
Well you sure have a huge number of supporters who love you, that much is clear!
Sohard may not have followed O's thread of which you are a huge and indeed much loved and important part, so I will forgive the coffee clutch comments.
By asking for coffee, you know we are just saying that we support you, that is it, and of course we congratulate you.
But you scared us (and yourself) when you stopped again and then started again quickly with a vengance ( as we all would BTW). It was this concern (and your question to Fini) that lead to the thoughts about what you might add to your toolbox. I suggested you might check out Hip Sobriety, others had other thoughts.
But as O said, although you can and did prove that you can stop drinking without any o/s help (as Dee and I did and many others), this does not fix the rest.
I have a genius therapist guru, other have other ways. But I was having a chat with a renowned psychiatrist one day who said that he tells everyone that if that cannot afford therapy, [] is the best free therapy in the world. I know it did not work for you, but others may not know that.
If I lived in the US, I may go myself to try and solve my issues, but luckily I have my guru for that. Not everyone is so lucky.
I do think that most people, not only drinkers, have underlying issues that if they could solve, they would be happier.
And isnt that the point!
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
I just want you to quit drinking Tatsy! I don't care how you do it, as long as you quit. Remember your quote, it's not will power, it's won't power. I still use that line all the time in my real life!
I also think it would do you good to talk to someone about your grief. You've been covering it up with booze, once the booze is gone, it will still be there.
I also think it would do you good to talk to someone about your grief. You've been covering it up with booze, once the booze is gone, it will still be there.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Originally Posted by Dee74 
This is classic AV tho - separate the user from the herd, cut them off from support.
It will even do it under the guise of protecting you....
The constraints of this particular forum rules aside, noones prescribing the way you have to get sober Tatsy
D
It will even do it under the guise of protecting you....
The constraints of this particular forum rules aside, noones prescribing the way you have to get sober Tatsy
D
Sometimes I think of what my dad (ALWAYSSSS) told me: simplify. When I get all jumbled up in my head, with lengthy whys and wherefores, I could very well be making a situation worse, serving to confuse myself and the action I truly need to take -and, basically, I need to cut the c**p.
You know I'm rooting for you.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,435
Cushy women’s group and coffee clutch are sexist generalizations about a conversation that has been going on for years, quite often by PM, that you have just recently entered sohard.
You also essentialize all of the regular posters as advocates of outside support which is also untrue. Look back through the posts and you can verify this if you read more carefully.
I haven’t logged on for years to support a friend to be patronized and get misogynistic blowback from someone who may mean well—which I think you do so hard—but who feels their limited snapshot of what’s actually transpiring in our form of support is somehow wrong.
You also essentialize all of the regular posters as advocates of outside support which is also untrue. Look back through the posts and you can verify this if you read more carefully.
I haven’t logged on for years to support a friend to be patronized and get misogynistic blowback from someone who may mean well—which I think you do so hard—but who feels their limited snapshot of what’s actually transpiring in our form of support is somehow wrong.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
I appreciate you all, and I want my thread to continue, and not descend into flame-wars. Let’s save those flame-killers for clearing the bush from the addiction neural loops! Once I stop drinking, as I did before, via separation from the AV, I’d like to be able to pick your brains on life rectification etc.
Sohard and me go back years, also. She’s been incredibly supportive recently.
I’m fighting for my life here!
Sohard and me go back years, also. She’s been incredibly supportive recently.
I’m fighting for my life here!
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
Originally Posted by August252015
This is what I wanted to say, too - I cannot really grasp your concept of the AV (I have not studied the intellectual methods, if you will, sufficiently enough to speak on them except that the AV concept makes no sense to me). To me, it still seems you are giving your power to something(s) else. I'm not trying to tell you that you must have a spiritual component. But I am kindly saying that the idea of being in control, as you explain it, still seems conditional on MANY things.
Sometimes I think of what my dad (ALWAYSSSS) told me: simplify. When I get all jumbled up in my head, with lengthy whys and wherefores, I could very well be making a situation worse, serving to confuse myself and the action I truly need to take -and, basically, I need to cut the c**p.
You know I'm rooting for you.
Sometimes I think of what my dad (ALWAYSSSS) told me: simplify. When I get all jumbled up in my head, with lengthy whys and wherefores, I could very well be making a situation worse, serving to confuse myself and the action I truly need to take -and, basically, I need to cut the c**p.
You know I'm rooting for you.
Simplicity itself. Make a very narrow and wholly discrete pledge to yourself to never again drink booze and resolve to never change your mind and you can't help but become the teetotaler you were born to be.
AV , in AVRT , also includes the idea that any doubt in your ability to remain abstinent is itself AV. The idea that it is somehow beyond one's control to remain abstinent, other than by resolving to be, is the embodiment and precursor to future drinking.
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,283
Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
Cushy women’s group and coffee clutch are sexist generalizations about a conversation that has been going on for years, quite often by PM, that you have just recently entered sohard.
You also essentialize all of the regular posters as advocates of outside support which is also untrue. Look back through the posts and you can verify this if you read more carefully.
I haven’t logged on for years to support a friend to be patronized and get misogynistic blowback from someone who may mean well—which I think you do so hard—but who feels their limited snapshot of what’s actually transpiring in our form of support is somehow wrong.
You also essentialize all of the regular posters as advocates of outside support which is also untrue. Look back through the posts and you can verify this if you read more carefully.
I haven’t logged on for years to support a friend to be patronized and get misogynistic blowback from someone who may mean well—which I think you do so hard—but who feels their limited snapshot of what’s actually transpiring in our form of support is somehow wrong.
however, none of this matters, what matters is that I offended you, and I apologize for starting anything. I really didn’t mean to offend anybody. I think I ruffled quite a few feathers, but can we all just forget about me (feel free to push ignore
) and get back to matters? I know that’s what we all want. Now back to Tatsy!
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,435
I’m willing to drop it and move on because you matter to me Tats. But I am still planning to offer and serve coffee 
Sohard, I certainly do accept you apology and offer one of my own for assuming you are only recently involved. I appreciate how helpful your posts are and we are all on team Tatsy.
I think being a woman does not immunize any of us against even inadvertently perpetuating sexist stereotypes. We are marginalized enough without delegitimization of our ways of connection and relating.
Sending you a hug Sohard
Sohard, I certainly do accept you apology and offer one of my own for assuming you are only recently involved. I appreciate how helpful your posts are and we are all on team Tatsy.
I think being a woman does not immunize any of us against even inadvertently perpetuating sexist stereotypes. We are marginalized enough without delegitimization of our ways of connection and relating.
Sending you a hug Sohard
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Sorry, Hawkeye but whaaaaat? I'll leave it at that because I cannot comprehend one whit of what you are saying as part of all this.
Also, yes, I understand the concept of the AV. Perhaps I worded it wrong- I don't "get" it because I don't believe a logical solution is entirely sufficient to keep me sober. It's also why terms like the "Beast" are baffling to me - not in the sense that I do not literally understand, so please, no patronizing explanations of either of these to me, again!
Why rely on just myself when I have proven not to be able to do it alone? And why use any combative word like "Beast" - as in something I am permanently pitted against in some "battle"? And, abstinence is not a sufficient goal for me, so while I might commingle some parts of these methods, to me the global points of what intuitively- and actively- work for ME are the same conclusions.
Too bad this thread has veered into territory of judgment and recrimination of different folks' methods of sober living.
Tats- I pm'ed you back.
New thread time?
Peace.
Also, yes, I understand the concept of the AV. Perhaps I worded it wrong- I don't "get" it because I don't believe a logical solution is entirely sufficient to keep me sober. It's also why terms like the "Beast" are baffling to me - not in the sense that I do not literally understand, so please, no patronizing explanations of either of these to me, again!
Why rely on just myself when I have proven not to be able to do it alone? And why use any combative word like "Beast" - as in something I am permanently pitted against in some "battle"? And, abstinence is not a sufficient goal for me, so while I might commingle some parts of these methods, to me the global points of what intuitively- and actively- work for ME are the same conclusions.
Too bad this thread has veered into territory of judgment and recrimination of different folks' methods of sober living.
Tats- I pm'ed you back.
New thread time?
Peace.
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,283
Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
I’m willing to drop it and move on because you matter to me Tats. But I am still planning to offer and serve coffee
Sohard, I certainly do accept you apology and offer one of my own for assuming you are only recently involved. I appreciate how helpful your posts are and we are all on team Tatsy.
I think being a woman does not immunize any of us against even inadvertently perpetuating sexist stereotypes. We are marginalized enough without delegitimization of our ways of connection and relating.
Sending you a hug Sohard
Sohard, I certainly do accept you apology and offer one of my own for assuming you are only recently involved. I appreciate how helpful your posts are and we are all on team Tatsy.
I think being a woman does not immunize any of us against even inadvertently perpetuating sexist stereotypes. We are marginalized enough without delegitimization of our ways of connection and relating.
Sending you a hug Sohard
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
Originally Posted by August252015
Sorry, Hawkeye but whaaaaat? I'll leave it at that because I cannot comprehend one whit of what you are saying as part of all this.
Also, yes, I understand the concept of the AV. Perhaps I worded it wrong- I don't "get" it because I don't believe a logical solution is entirely sufficient to keep me sober. It's also why terms like the "Beast" are baffling to me - not in the sense that I do not literally understand, so please, no patronizing explanations of either of these to me, again!
Why rely on just myself when I have proven not to be able to do it alone? And why use any combative word like "Beast" - as in something I am permanently pitted against in some "battle"? And, abstinence is not a sufficient goal for me, so while I might commingle some parts of these methods, to me the global points of what intuitively- and actively- work for ME are the same conclusions.
Too bad this thread has veered into territory of judgment and recrimination of different folks' methods of sober living.
Tats- I pm'ed you back.
New thread time?
Peace.
Also, yes, I understand the concept of the AV. Perhaps I worded it wrong- I don't "get" it because I don't believe a logical solution is entirely sufficient to keep me sober. It's also why terms like the "Beast" are baffling to me - not in the sense that I do not literally understand, so please, no patronizing explanations of either of these to me, again!
Why rely on just myself when I have proven not to be able to do it alone? And why use any combative word like "Beast" - as in something I am permanently pitted against in some "battle"? And, abstinence is not a sufficient goal for me, so while I might commingle some parts of these methods, to me the global points of what intuitively- and actively- work for ME are the same conclusions.
Too bad this thread has veered into territory of judgment and recrimination of different folks' methods of sober living.
Tats- I pm'ed you back.
New thread time?
Peace.
I got it though, no more explanations of AVRT to some one that plainly states they do not understand AVRT concepts in an AVRT centric forum , got it.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: US
Posts: 5,095
Hey Tats
Hope you are doing ok. Hope you got my PM yesterday.
I'm not a 'hardcore' devote to any one treatment method so I'll stay away from any discussion of them...one of the reasons I don't post much here is I get my butt kicked by people that are way smarter than I am I just don't drink.
Then I try to work on my life problems. That's what I need help with. That's what makes me vulnerable...the whole homo sapiens thing. Then I can develop coping mechanisms that I practice over and over with the hope that when all hell brakes loose, and it will, I use them before picking up booze.
I know I won't pick up a drink today....that's a cool thing.
Hope you are doing ok. Hope you got my PM yesterday.
I'm not a 'hardcore' devote to any one treatment method so I'll stay away from any discussion of them...one of the reasons I don't post much here is I get my butt kicked by people that are way smarter than I am
I just don't drink.Then I try to work on my life problems. That's what I need help with. That's what makes me vulnerable...the whole homo sapiens thing. Then I can develop coping mechanisms that I practice over and over with the hope that when all hell brakes loose, and it will, I use them before picking up booze.
I know I won't pick up a drink today....that's a cool thing.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
OK, here goes me ‘being me’ as Obladi says.
I completely agree with Sohard’spost #314. I also agree with Dee’s post #316. My AV is canny indeed.
I appreciate every one of you posters here. But this coffee club thing. I know, out of politeness, I’ve probably encouraged it, and I fully realise it’s your way of drawing me back to posting, when I go quiet.
But it isn’t working, it feeds, fuels, my AV. And it”s probably not necessary to explain why, save to say, it hinders me, and aids my AV. I realise I’m probably sounding like the most heinous person on SR for posting this, but as Obladi says, I must do ‘me’. The Authentic Me, not my Addictive Voice.
I completely agree with Sohard’spost #314. I also agree with Dee’s post #316. My AV is canny indeed.
I appreciate every one of you posters here. But this coffee club thing. I know, out of politeness, I’ve probably encouraged it, and I fully realise it’s your way of drawing me back to posting, when I go quiet.
But it isn’t working, it feeds, fuels, my AV. And it”s probably not necessary to explain why, save to say, it hinders me, and aids my AV. I realise I’m probably sounding like the most heinous person on SR for posting this, but as Obladi says, I must do ‘me’. The Authentic Me, not my Addictive Voice.
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,283
Originally Posted by Tatsy
OK, here goes me ‘being me’ as Obladi says.
I completely agree with Sohard’spost #314. I also agree with Dee’s post #316. My AV is canny indeed.
I appreciate every one of you posters here. But this coffee club thing. I know, out of politeness, I’ve probably encouraged it, and I fully realise it’s your way of drawing me back to posting, when I go quiet.
But it isn’t working, it feeds, fuels, my AV. And it”s probably not necessary to explain why, save to say, it hinders me, and aids my AV. I realise I’m probably sounding like the most heinous person on SR for posting this, but as Obladi says, I must do ‘me’. The Authentic Me, not my Addictive Voice.
I completely agree with Sohard’spost #314. I also agree with Dee’s post #316. My AV is canny indeed.
I appreciate every one of you posters here. But this coffee club thing. I know, out of politeness, I’ve probably encouraged it, and I fully realise it’s your way of drawing me back to posting, when I go quiet.
But it isn’t working, it feeds, fuels, my AV. And it”s probably not necessary to explain why, save to say, it hinders me, and aids my AV. I realise I’m probably sounding like the most heinous person on SR for posting this, but as Obladi says, I must do ‘me’. The Authentic Me, not my Addictive Voice.
Lol. You definitely don’t sound like “the most heinous person on SR”.
I’m sure, however, at some point we’ve all been that person! I love that you’re getting your voice out into the convo. It’s healthy! I really do know you can do this. Your words were a real inspiration to me years ago when you first tried AVRT. I want them to keep inspiring others in the future. And they will again, I know it. Last night I went to a coworker’s 50th birthday party. I sober danced!, had some great conversations, and came home and walked my pup. I woke up today and worked out, cleaned, and paid some bills. Basically, I lived. All because of AVRT (my quit app tells me it’s been 112 days!). I can’t wait to hear what you do on your day 112!
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