I Drank After 2 Years and Six Months: I’m in Despair
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Hi Tatsy! I hope you have a lovely day- you and I pm'ed about my back surgery - - today I am celebrating it by seeing our pastoral counselor and my therapist....then dinner at our absolute fave place that's like family (for a lot of reasons - it's part of the company where I work the restaurant industry recovery group) and tomorrow my last hurrah is getting a blow out! I figure if can't shower for 3 days at least I have some hope of feeling pretty from the neck up!!!
I hope you find something to treat yourself to today- it's the one day we have now!
Glad you are with us- you are a special person.
I hope you find something to treat yourself to today- it's the one day we have now!
Glad you are with us- you are a special person.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
.
Monin' Tatsy ~
'And you raised me up and gave me hope, in my time of crisis.'
Your compelling sentence got me motivated to find the origin of the Song linked below; vs. more familiar Covers. From a Norwegian/Irish Duo that led Norway to winning Eurovision in 1995. Apparently, the Singer is a Hunk, but what do I know?
Just another positive aspect of this Secular Song.
~ 'You Raise Me Up' ~ Secret Garden ~ Live in Shanghai ~
Besides the heady AVRT/RR Moral Component that forever took Ethanol off the Table for me, and having lost in parallel any/all interest in Drinking anymore, I'm simply too busy to cop a buzz. I've got Projects, interspersed with RV Trailer Travel, lined up through Year-end. It was 50 F [10 C] outside this Morning with a zippy Breeze, and Fall's imminent here at 6,150' [1,875 Meters].
I knew a paraphrase of this Quote from the hilarious Steve Martin Film L.A. Story, and just ran it down. From Ar_node. Who woulda thunk?
“Where the mind goes the body will follow” ~ Arnold Schwarzenegger
This current Sunrise off the Patio - accompanied by stellar Coffee - is for you!
Monin' Tatsy ~
'And you raised me up and gave me hope, in my time of crisis.'
Your compelling sentence got me motivated to find the origin of the Song linked below; vs. more familiar Covers. From a Norwegian/Irish Duo that led Norway to winning Eurovision in 1995. Apparently, the Singer is a Hunk, but what do I know?
Just another positive aspect of this Secular Song. ~ 'You Raise Me Up' ~ Secret Garden ~ Live in Shanghai ~
Besides the heady AVRT/RR Moral Component that forever took Ethanol off the Table for me, and having lost in parallel any/all interest in Drinking anymore, I'm simply too busy to cop a buzz. I've got Projects, interspersed with RV Trailer Travel, lined up through Year-end. It was 50 F [10 C] outside this Morning with a zippy Breeze, and Fall's imminent here at 6,150' [1,875 Meters].
I knew a paraphrase of this Quote from the hilarious Steve Martin Film L.A. Story, and just ran it down. From Ar_node. Who woulda thunk?
“Where the mind goes the body will follow” ~ Arnold Schwarzenegger
This current Sunrise off the Patio - accompanied by stellar Coffee - is for you!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 164
Tatsy - been reading the last couple pages of your thread and you seem really focused. So proud of you. You are going to make it back to that land of sobriety that you have visited before. We are a lot alike. I was sober for five years before my demons got the best of me again. I am going to use your strength to help me fend them off again. Thank you.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,423
Morning Tats
Sun just popped over my horizon and feels good on my face.
Yesterday when I went out to see the stars come out I could feel the cool fingers of Fall rubbing my shoulders.
Time is a funny thing. Seems faster all the time.
Hope you having a good day.
Sun just popped over my horizon and feels good on my face.
Yesterday when I went out to see the stars come out I could feel the cool fingers of Fall rubbing my shoulders.
Time is a funny thing. Seems faster all the time.
Hope you having a good day.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Originally Posted by MesaMan 
. 'And you raised me up and gave me hope, in my time of crisis.'
“Where the mind goes the body will follow” ~ Arnold Schwarzenegger
“Where the mind goes the body will follow” ~ Arnold Schwarzenegger
I appreciate the Schwarzenegger quote, so true: who moves this body? I do. I’ll never tire of your patio view, sunrise, sunset, it’s superb. And the, coffee? Stellar!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
August, I’m glad you’re with us too, you are a very special person, for sure. I have everything crossed, and have spoken to ‘you know who’ that you may have supremely successful surgery, that improves your quality of life and reduces your pain. Truly, rooting for you 💓.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Thank you Anna, I appreciate your kind words 😊.
Today I’m jumping forwards, and posting a recent quote, It was sent by PM by a dear, supportive friend here on SR, who,has given permission to publish it. I hope it helps somebody else, as it did me, when I was in a very dark place, as those of you know, who’ve read my thread since the beginning . I was at the point of giving up, due to my negative circumstances, which I believedwere insurmountable, whilst drinking.
This post lit the fire in my soul, to put the drink down, and fight back . To stop remaining passive to Mr. AV’s dictate: “your’e beyond hope, so might as well drink.” Mr. AV lies, always.
The amazing post:
“Tatsy, I agree with you - you’re ready, or else you wouldn’t be here reading this right now, right?
You wrote “so much rebuilding to do, and much that I’d like to rebuild is simply not possible. And I’m not being defeatist, but some losses are permanent.” All that may be true, and it really is sad, but try to flip it around in your head. While some losses are permanent, you have no idea what you’ll be able to build when you come on over to the good side. It just might be magnificent! And while your losses may be permanent, whatever you lost clearly gave you great joy/fulfillment at one point. So, it isn’t a total loss. Because it’s the journey that matters, right?, not the destination. Be grateful you had whatever it was that you lost for at least some points on your journey. Celebrate and honor that with sobriety, not drinking. Doesn’t it (and you) deserve that?
Not knowing the specifics, I can’t say whether your loss is really permanent or partial AV. But, even if it is permanent, just focus on the fact that you (and all of us) are just doing the best we can. And that is ENOUGH. Don’t whip yourself over and over or live in regret. Who does that help? No one. Well, one person - your cult leader Mr. AV.
Think of the people you love most in the world. Pretend they had your loss. Would you want them to drink over it and ruin their lives? Would they deserve that? Would their loved ones deserve to have them not fully present? Wouldn’t that make it more likely they would have to face another loss? Wouldn’t that make them less likely to contribute to others during this one shot at life they have?? Life is not a dress rehearsal, as the saying goes. You Can Do This!”
Today I’m jumping forwards, and posting a recent quote, It was sent by PM by a dear, supportive friend here on SR, who,has given permission to publish it. I hope it helps somebody else, as it did me, when I was in a very dark place, as those of you know, who’ve read my thread since the beginning . I was at the point of giving up, due to my negative circumstances, which I believedwere insurmountable, whilst drinking.
This post lit the fire in my soul, to put the drink down, and fight back . To stop remaining passive to Mr. AV’s dictate: “your’e beyond hope, so might as well drink.” Mr. AV lies, always.
The amazing post:
“Tatsy, I agree with you - you’re ready, or else you wouldn’t be here reading this right now, right?
You wrote “so much rebuilding to do, and much that I’d like to rebuild is simply not possible. And I’m not being defeatist, but some losses are permanent.” All that may be true, and it really is sad, but try to flip it around in your head. While some losses are permanent, you have no idea what you’ll be able to build when you come on over to the good side. It just might be magnificent! And while your losses may be permanent, whatever you lost clearly gave you great joy/fulfillment at one point. So, it isn’t a total loss. Because it’s the journey that matters, right?, not the destination. Be grateful you had whatever it was that you lost for at least some points on your journey. Celebrate and honor that with sobriety, not drinking. Doesn’t it (and you) deserve that?
Not knowing the specifics, I can’t say whether your loss is really permanent or partial AV. But, even if it is permanent, just focus on the fact that you (and all of us) are just doing the best we can. And that is ENOUGH. Don’t whip yourself over and over or live in regret. Who does that help? No one. Well, one person - your cult leader Mr. AV.
Think of the people you love most in the world. Pretend they had your loss. Would you want them to drink over it and ruin their lives? Would they deserve that? Would their loved ones deserve to have them not fully present? Wouldn’t that make it more likely they would have to face another loss? Wouldn’t that make them less likely to contribute to others during this one shot at life they have?? Life is not a dress rehearsal, as the saying goes. You Can Do This!”
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Breckenridge Colorado
Posts: 93
Hi Tatsy. You're sounding good. Sobriety is awesome and such a gift we can give to ourselves. It's there, it's always been there, and it will always be there. We just have to grab onto it. It's way more powerful than the AV.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Good new day to you, dear friend.
I'm not sure about you, but for me, the weekend tended to be problematic in the past. Which is ridiculous since I was drinking copious quantities every single day. From a distance, I can now see clearly that was pure beast - "It's the weekend, now we can totally lose control without impunity!" What a beastly beast.
I know you've got your eyes wide open and your responses prepared for the AV when it comes knocking; just wanted to give you an extra boost in case it's in the least bit helpful. At least you know I get it.
Onward!
xo
O
I'm not sure about you, but for me, the weekend tended to be problematic in the past. Which is ridiculous since I was drinking copious quantities every single day. From a distance, I can now see clearly that was pure beast - "It's the weekend, now we can totally lose control without impunity!" What a beastly beast.
I know you've got your eyes wide open and your responses prepared for the AV when it comes knocking; just wanted to give you an extra boost in case it's in the least bit helpful. At least you know I get it.
Onward!
xo
O
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Thank you gals and guys, for your support 🤗
My quote for today is one that instigated my previous two and a half year sobriety. I owe the author, and a another mentor at that time, my life, when I first stopped drinking.
I let my mentors, and myself down, when I relapsed. Never again. I now have absolute acceptance, that I cannot, in this lifetime, drink again. My brain is forever, whether by desire or habit or addiction or primal: rewired. And consequently, my brain will never forget; in the same way I can’t unlearn how to ride a bicycle, or play the piano; my brain (Beast/primal/Ego and its mouthpiece the AV) will never forget the original high....chasing the dragon, all those decades ago. My experience is that once that line is crossed into ‘addiction land’: the only way out of that swamp, is to stop, forever, by ignoring the AV.
My quote for today is one that instigated my previous two and a half year sobriety. I owe the author, and a another mentor at that time, my life, when I first stopped drinking.
I let my mentors, and myself down, when I relapsed. Never again. I now have absolute acceptance, that I cannot, in this lifetime, drink again. My brain is forever, whether by desire or habit or addiction or primal: rewired. And consequently, my brain will never forget; in the same way I can’t unlearn how to ride a bicycle, or play the piano; my brain (Beast/primal/Ego and its mouthpiece the AV) will never forget the original high....chasing the dragon, all those decades ago. My experience is that once that line is crossed into ‘addiction land’: the only way out of that swamp, is to stop, forever, by ignoring the AV.
Originally Posted by freshstart57
XXXXXX,
I think I want to talk with you about my sobriety. While you believe you know how I feel about ZZ (I am not sure that this is true, but we can save that for another day), I get the feeling from some things you have said that you are not clear on AVRT and why / how I am sober. I don't think you understand how it works. That is what I want to explain.
I got sober by taking responsibility for my drinking. I made a plan in my mind to never drink again and to never change my mind. Any thought that contradicted that plan did not come from me. It came from my Addictive Voice, the voice of the part of me that loves to get hammered. That part of me would have me drink until I lost my job, my marriage, my family, my home, and finally my life. It was taking everything I love away from me bit by bit, day by day.
I knew that I had a bad drinking problem, and of course, I paid attention whenever the topic of alcoholism came up. These are some of the thoughts that were running through my mind before I stopped:
*I can't quit drinking 'just like that'.
*I am out of control and helpless
*I am scared to death of quitting drinking. How could I possibly survive without alcohol?
*If I could quit or control my drinking, I would have done it long before this
*If I could quit, I certainly can't quit now.
*It's genetic, look at my father and my uncles. No wonder I drink.
*I can never do this on my own.
*I have a disease which will get worse and worse.
*Even if I quit for a little while, I will relapse time after time.
*I will never 'recover' from alcoholism
*I will always be in danger of losing control and drinking.
*I will need to be constantly on guard.
*I will need divine help to stop, and the most I can ever hope for is to quit for one day at a time.
*I am a worthless POS, and I need to drink to numb this thought or I will lose my mind.
To all of these thoughts I finally called BS, I refused to accept that I was powerless, that I could not be responsible and stop this. I felt that way, and still do, because I believe that I make my own breaks, that I control my life, not some substance. You have seen my determination to succeed in action before, I know. I was determined to succeed at this. Even if nobody in the history of the whole world had ever quit drinking (baloney, people have been getting dependent on alcohol and quitting since wine was discovered 4000 years ago) I was going to be one of them and quit, come hell or high water. No more drunken crap in my life ever again.
So, I stopped drinking that morning of August 22 with my parents and my family there. I remember it was at 9:30 in the morning. After that moment, any time the urge came to drink, I pretended it came from that old gf who lied and cheated and made me look like a fool time after time, just like alcohol. She made me feel sick and miserable and worthless, just like alcohol. I would never ever get involved in any way with her ever again, not for any reason. That mental association made it easier to turn away from the urge, confident in my resolve for the life I knew I could have.
What I was doing was recognizing urges, and imagining that they came from someplace that wasn't me, that wasn't part of the thinking loving caring hoping dreaming part of me, it was part of my animal brain, my lizard brain, whatever you want to call it, the part of me that loved the pleasure of drinking, the taste, the buzz, the numbness, the euphoria and the rest. I was recognizing my Addictive Voice, and separating myself from it.
Then, through SR, I adjusted my thinking a little through exposure to AVRT and RR, and learned about making a 'big plan', which is nothing more than a line in the sand - a commitment that I will never drink again and I will never change mind. This line pushes all those drinking related thoughts, any thought that might jeopardize my sobriety, across that line in the sand into the territory of the AV, and I know how to handle thoughts there.
So, to emphasize, any idea of ever drinking again, or of failing to keep to my plan, or of needing anything to help me stay sober, or someday doing 'some research' is my AV. I will never drink again, no matter how angry I am, how depressed, how hurt , how lonely, depressed, anxious, you name it. Never. No head space or attitude or event or anything will make me drink because, the thought that it might make me drink is not me, not true, not real and I don't have to listen to it, I will never listen to it, it is my addictive voice. My resistance to my AV is iron clad, it is bullet proof. This is AVRT and Rational Recovery in a nutshell.
Now, to speak to some of the ideas we have talked about over the last few days concerning my sobriety.
Here is why I feel uncomfortable to label myself an alcoholic:
An alcoholic in my mind is someone who drinks, who is dependent on alcohol, who is addicted to alcohol, and even if they are sober for today, could drink again at any moment, out of control. They need to do certain things to remain abstinent. I am not any of these things, nor will I ever be any of these things.
If the definition above is true, calling myself an alcoholic means that I might drink again someday. This is my AV talking, not me, and I don't listen to my AV, that jerk. POS will kill me if I do, I know it.
I used to be dependent on alcohol, I used to be addicted to alcohol, but not now, nor ever again.
My 'obsession was not lifted', as you said. That sounds like something somehow happened to me. Nope, not at all. I quit, I did it. Me. I am in charge of this whole deal.
Here is why I don't consider my alcoholism a disease like cancer that might come back unless I take chemo, as you suggested:
If it is a disease, and if there is 'no known cure' for it, then I might drink again some day. AV.
If it is a disease, and if I am powerless over it, then I might drink again some day. AV again.
Since my alcoholism is not a disease, at least not to me, and can't be compared to diabetes or cancer or schizophrenia, the question Am I cured does not make sense. What does make sense is the fact that I will never drink again and I will never change my mind. There is a difference in my mind.
Am I recovered? Or as you asked me, am I fully recovered (how could I be partly recovered)? Again, in light of this, it is a hard question to answer because it doesn't make sense. The only answer is I don't drink. Is an ex-smoker, someone who will never smoke again, 'in recovery' from nicotine addiction? They just don't smoke, that's it. I think that my alcohol addiction is the same.
What do I do for my recovery, as you asked me, what daily routine do I have? This question implies that I need to do something, and if I don't do it, i.e. if I don't take my insulin or chemotherapy, I will start drinking again. If I get into a bad head space, I will drink again. Remember, this idea is pure AV. My sobriety does not depend on anything at all and the idea that it does depend on a certain condition is, you guessed it, my AV again. I have chosen not to drink ever again and will never change my mind.
OK, I need this also to be very clear. I am talking about only my sobriety. Mine. Not anyone else's sobriety, especially not yours. I am not criticizing anyone who does not think as I do about their own sobriety as I do about mine. I have no right to do that. I know that there are many ways to get to sober, and this one is mine.
Here is what I am asking of you, XXXXX. I am asking you to accept that what I have described above is real, and true, to accept this as fact, just like the sun rises. I am asking you to accept that this is true and real for me. I have decided that I have the power to believe this 'mind trick' as true, and I hold this belief very very strongly simply because my sobriety and my life depend on it. This belief allows me to be sober, and sober for good, no matter what ever might happen, however I might feel.
I hope you understand a little more about my sobriety, and thanks for listening to me.
I think I want to talk with you about my sobriety. While you believe you know how I feel about ZZ (I am not sure that this is true, but we can save that for another day), I get the feeling from some things you have said that you are not clear on AVRT and why / how I am sober. I don't think you understand how it works. That is what I want to explain.
I got sober by taking responsibility for my drinking. I made a plan in my mind to never drink again and to never change my mind. Any thought that contradicted that plan did not come from me. It came from my Addictive Voice, the voice of the part of me that loves to get hammered. That part of me would have me drink until I lost my job, my marriage, my family, my home, and finally my life. It was taking everything I love away from me bit by bit, day by day.
I knew that I had a bad drinking problem, and of course, I paid attention whenever the topic of alcoholism came up. These are some of the thoughts that were running through my mind before I stopped:
*I can't quit drinking 'just like that'.
*I am out of control and helpless
*I am scared to death of quitting drinking. How could I possibly survive without alcohol?
*If I could quit or control my drinking, I would have done it long before this
*If I could quit, I certainly can't quit now.
*It's genetic, look at my father and my uncles. No wonder I drink.
*I can never do this on my own.
*I have a disease which will get worse and worse.
*Even if I quit for a little while, I will relapse time after time.
*I will never 'recover' from alcoholism
*I will always be in danger of losing control and drinking.
*I will need to be constantly on guard.
*I will need divine help to stop, and the most I can ever hope for is to quit for one day at a time.
*I am a worthless POS, and I need to drink to numb this thought or I will lose my mind.
To all of these thoughts I finally called BS, I refused to accept that I was powerless, that I could not be responsible and stop this. I felt that way, and still do, because I believe that I make my own breaks, that I control my life, not some substance. You have seen my determination to succeed in action before, I know. I was determined to succeed at this. Even if nobody in the history of the whole world had ever quit drinking (baloney, people have been getting dependent on alcohol and quitting since wine was discovered 4000 years ago) I was going to be one of them and quit, come hell or high water. No more drunken crap in my life ever again.
So, I stopped drinking that morning of August 22 with my parents and my family there. I remember it was at 9:30 in the morning. After that moment, any time the urge came to drink, I pretended it came from that old gf who lied and cheated and made me look like a fool time after time, just like alcohol. She made me feel sick and miserable and worthless, just like alcohol. I would never ever get involved in any way with her ever again, not for any reason. That mental association made it easier to turn away from the urge, confident in my resolve for the life I knew I could have.
What I was doing was recognizing urges, and imagining that they came from someplace that wasn't me, that wasn't part of the thinking loving caring hoping dreaming part of me, it was part of my animal brain, my lizard brain, whatever you want to call it, the part of me that loved the pleasure of drinking, the taste, the buzz, the numbness, the euphoria and the rest. I was recognizing my Addictive Voice, and separating myself from it.
Then, through SR, I adjusted my thinking a little through exposure to AVRT and RR, and learned about making a 'big plan', which is nothing more than a line in the sand - a commitment that I will never drink again and I will never change mind. This line pushes all those drinking related thoughts, any thought that might jeopardize my sobriety, across that line in the sand into the territory of the AV, and I know how to handle thoughts there.
So, to emphasize, any idea of ever drinking again, or of failing to keep to my plan, or of needing anything to help me stay sober, or someday doing 'some research' is my AV. I will never drink again, no matter how angry I am, how depressed, how hurt , how lonely, depressed, anxious, you name it. Never. No head space or attitude or event or anything will make me drink because, the thought that it might make me drink is not me, not true, not real and I don't have to listen to it, I will never listen to it, it is my addictive voice. My resistance to my AV is iron clad, it is bullet proof. This is AVRT and Rational Recovery in a nutshell.
Now, to speak to some of the ideas we have talked about over the last few days concerning my sobriety.
Here is why I feel uncomfortable to label myself an alcoholic:
An alcoholic in my mind is someone who drinks, who is dependent on alcohol, who is addicted to alcohol, and even if they are sober for today, could drink again at any moment, out of control. They need to do certain things to remain abstinent. I am not any of these things, nor will I ever be any of these things.
If the definition above is true, calling myself an alcoholic means that I might drink again someday. This is my AV talking, not me, and I don't listen to my AV, that jerk. POS will kill me if I do, I know it.
I used to be dependent on alcohol, I used to be addicted to alcohol, but not now, nor ever again.
My 'obsession was not lifted', as you said. That sounds like something somehow happened to me. Nope, not at all. I quit, I did it. Me. I am in charge of this whole deal.
Here is why I don't consider my alcoholism a disease like cancer that might come back unless I take chemo, as you suggested:
If it is a disease, and if there is 'no known cure' for it, then I might drink again some day. AV.
If it is a disease, and if I am powerless over it, then I might drink again some day. AV again.
Since my alcoholism is not a disease, at least not to me, and can't be compared to diabetes or cancer or schizophrenia, the question Am I cured does not make sense. What does make sense is the fact that I will never drink again and I will never change my mind. There is a difference in my mind.
Am I recovered? Or as you asked me, am I fully recovered (how could I be partly recovered)? Again, in light of this, it is a hard question to answer because it doesn't make sense. The only answer is I don't drink. Is an ex-smoker, someone who will never smoke again, 'in recovery' from nicotine addiction? They just don't smoke, that's it. I think that my alcohol addiction is the same.
What do I do for my recovery, as you asked me, what daily routine do I have? This question implies that I need to do something, and if I don't do it, i.e. if I don't take my insulin or chemotherapy, I will start drinking again. If I get into a bad head space, I will drink again. Remember, this idea is pure AV. My sobriety does not depend on anything at all and the idea that it does depend on a certain condition is, you guessed it, my AV again. I have chosen not to drink ever again and will never change my mind.
OK, I need this also to be very clear. I am talking about only my sobriety. Mine. Not anyone else's sobriety, especially not yours. I am not criticizing anyone who does not think as I do about their own sobriety as I do about mine. I have no right to do that. I know that there are many ways to get to sober, and this one is mine.
Here is what I am asking of you, XXXXX. I am asking you to accept that what I have described above is real, and true, to accept this as fact, just like the sun rises. I am asking you to accept that this is true and real for me. I have decided that I have the power to believe this 'mind trick' as true, and I hold this belief very very strongly simply because my sobriety and my life depend on it. This belief allows me to be sober, and sober for good, no matter what ever might happen, however I might feel.
I hope you understand a little more about my sobriety, and thanks for listening to me.
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