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I Drank After 2 Years and Six Months: I’m in Despair



I Drank After 2 Years and Six Months: I’m in Despair

Old 08-24-2019, 06:34 AM
  # 301 (permalink)  
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Morning All!

Coffee here too...furbabies sleeping again after waking me to eat. What's up with that?

Oh and my special needs Aunt calling me at 530am....I do love her but she calls most mornings extremely early...she's on the East Coast. I keep telling her 'call after your lunch' but I think she thinks breakfast is lunch so dunno. She's 83 so doubtful she's going to change much. She's my alarm clock.

Hope you are ok Tatsy. This stuff is so hard. That obsession that returns is brutal and it can take quite a beating before it quiets down again.
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Old 08-24-2019, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye13 View Post
I’m having my coffee watching the fishermen heading out for a day on the lake. The first feel of fall with a barely-crisp breeze kissed with cool. Sliding doors to porch actually open.

Two pups asleep on my lap, extra coffee in reach in a thermos. This is my idea of heaven, brought to me in part by my sponsor Sobriety.

Hope you are all well. Big hugs Tats. . .you got this.
That does sound like heaven, good for you, enjoy.
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Old 08-24-2019, 07:14 AM
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Hey girl, so I see ya been posting on other threads -- you ghosting us?

Waas up with that?
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:54 AM
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You know, one thing that’s really got me thinking is what we do with Hope in / and Action.

Tatsy, would you like to co-create a thread on personal recovery toolboxes? By that I mean what we do and can do idiosyncraticlly and individually to design our own recovery as distinct from a group program?

For me, SR is my social support but the other “tools” are individual choices. This is a fertile subtopic I see emerging. . .
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Old 08-24-2019, 09:00 AM
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Not ghosting Drops, just avoiding my thread, as a protection mechanism, because my AV pounced upon the words of well meaning, kind hearted folks, who related their own experiences: that they couldn’t stop and stay stopped under their own power, that they needed outside agencies, etc. Thereby weakening my resolve that I had the power over what to place in my mouth (and feeding my AV).

I fully tried outside agencies twice. They didn’t work, for me. When I landed on SR shore in 2016, I learnt a method that worked for me, AVRT. After decades of problematic drinking, the last years of which were all day, every day, so pretty hardcore.

The AVRT threads on SR and the kind folks who experienced success, taught me how to utilise my own power, my higher brain, and ignore the AV, the base-brain/ego’s mal-adaptive desire to drink, as a coping mechanism.

I didn’t drink again because AVRT failed me (the AV saying you can drink normally now after two and a half years and me agreeing) I drank because I made the choice to ‘knock myself out with alcohol’.

What I didn’t envisage, and after much research, now realise, is the originally laid down, alcohol seeking neural pathways in my brain, would immediately ramp back up to previous levels, as a diversion from the non-drinker status pathway.

Drinking alcohol, brought into action the brush cutters, lawnmowers, chainsaws and the alcohol seeking neural pathway was fully cleared. It became a super-smooth hghway, which diverted my thinking from the sober highway, to the addictive highway, at previous imbibing levels. It was shockingly fast.

I believe that stopping drinking once more, ignoring the AV, the addictive highway will become overgrown, and via the same process that it sprang back into life, the non-drinking neural highway will become fully operational. It’s just a mal-adaptive learning process, I believe, and this belief helps me.

I do hope I haven’t offended anyone. Tatsy’s back in control. I never really lost it. On reflection, I just abdicated my responsibility (credit to Fini and MesaMan).

This time it’s UNconditional, no matter what!
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Old 08-24-2019, 09:18 AM
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I want some serious stickers and brush to fill up my addictive neural highway. . .

Glad you are back on track Tats. What you say makes sense to me. How are you feeling physically? Maximizing physical health is a major tool in my recovery toolbox.
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Old 08-24-2019, 09:42 AM
  # 307 (permalink)  
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Hawks, I’m in no doubt, that post sobriety, all avenues should be explored in pursuit of optmizing one’s life. Physically, pretty run down, the equivalent of a minimum of 750ml of vodka a day, usually far more, because the neural pathways escalated to previous levels. Crazy.

I’m eating nutritious food, popping vitamins, minerals and olives, spending time under the sun (courtesy of Wholesome because as a fair skinned person I normally shy away).

Tomsteve got it, he said look in the mirror and say ‘I love you’. Thanks Tomsteve 💓. Because I lost sight of my value, I felt worthless. So it’s self-care, whatever format it might take.
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Old 08-24-2019, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
Not ghosting Drops, just avoiding my thread, as a protection mechanism, because my AV pounced upon the words of well meaning, kind hearted folks, who related their own experiences: that they couldn’t stop and stay stopped under their own power, that they needed outside agencies, etc. Thereby weakening my resolve that I had the power over what to place in my mouth (and feeding my AV).

I believe that stopping drinking once more, ignoring the AV, the addictive highway will become overgrown, and via the same process that it sprang back into life, the non-drinking neural highway will become fully operational. It’s just a mal-adaptive learning process, I believe, and this belief helps me.

I do hope I haven’t offended anyone. Tatsy’s back in control. I never really lost it. On reflection, I just abdicated my responsibility (credit to Fini and MesaMan).

This time it’s UNconditional, no matter what!
Hey Tats,

Glad you're back!

You didn't offend me, though I do wonder if I'm one of "those" people you perceive as weakening your resolve. Having just wrote that, I actually feel like calling you on that. In the world of AVRT, how do other people weaken your resolve? I mean, I get it if we were helping you to rationalize drinking or asking you out for a cold one, that's the only way I can really see that happening.

I just read back over the past several days and see just one post that suggests you can't get and stay sober under your own power. Maybe there were more, but I didn't see them and anyhow the larger point is that you were citing reasons to drink like your outlook being bleak and your health probably being in ruins. You weren't saying, "I simply can not stop putting the booze in me," You were saying, "I am neither mentally or physically capable of getting out of this dire situation."

As far as drinking goes, I believe your AV was using your own perception of your AV against you if you know what I mean? Sort of like a smoke n mirrors show. It's every bit as clever and intellectual as you are, with a healthy shot of self-pity and fatalism mixed in. It will keep learning new tricks every time you give it a new opportunity.

So. We all know that drinking is irrational for people like us. We know that the urge/beast will only lie dormant as long as we don't feed it ANYthing. Doesn't matter which stop drinking route you follow, this is a singular truth throughout everything I've ever heard, read, been taught or experienced.

I can't speak for anyone else, but from what I've read (your words), it seems that you have virtually debilitating worries or hurts or stressors that are impacting your overall mood and outlook. At least they feel that way at times. Trimpey says straight up that AVRT will do absolutely nothing to help with those other problems. My suggestion that you get those things out in some way that involves interacting with other people (here or elsewhere) was intended to address those bits.

My apologies to you if I have given offense, Tats. I think as much as you'd like to be an Amazonian Warrior with the rationality of a machine, you're actually a real person with mushy inside parts; one of whom I've become very fond and one for whom I wish only the very best.

xo
O

p.s. I hope I don't sound all holier than thou; I surely am the least qualified for that crown. If I just ticked you off, it's of course fine to say so here on your thread or by PM. But I hope I didn't.

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Old 08-24-2019, 11:43 AM
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Tatsy,

I’ve been following this thread. I’m just thrilled to read you’ve gotten your power back. I knew you could do it bc you’ve done it before. I’d like to offer you a huge congratulations!!!!! We should all be celebrating this right now. You have got some brain work ahead of you, as you know, but the terrific news is that you now see (as you did in your prior sobriety) that there are TWO highways. You just took a momentary accidental detour onto the wrong one for a bit. Can happen to anyone. What’s important is not that you got lost but that you found the directions back. Well done!
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Old 08-24-2019, 12:14 PM
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Thank you, Sohard, for your congratulations and understanding me and my personal stance, and experience 😃
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Old 08-24-2019, 12:47 PM
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Tatsy, I know that believing in yourself and loving yourself are just what you need to get back on track and stay there. You got this!
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Old 08-24-2019, 01:13 PM
  # 312 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Anna View Post
Tatsy, I know that believing in yourself and loving yourself are just what you need to get back on track and stay there. You got this!
Anna. your supportive words mean so much to me. I’m still reading the book you recommended, oh my, how I can relate! 😃
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Old 08-24-2019, 03:47 PM
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Not ghosting Drops, just avoiding my thread, as a protection mechanism, because my AV pounced upon the words of well meaning, kind hearted folks, who related their own experiences: that they couldn’t stop and stay stopped under their own power, that they needed outside agencies, etc. Thereby weakening my resolve that I had the power over what to place in my mouth (and feeding my AV).
This is classic AV tho - separate the user from the herd, cut them off from support.
It will even do it under the guise of protecting you....

The constraints of this particular forum rules aside, noones prescribing the way you have to get sober Tatsy

D
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Old 08-24-2019, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
This is classic AV tho - separate the user from the herd, cut them off from support.
It will even do it under the guise of protecting you....

The constraints of this particular forum rules aside, noones prescribing the way you have to get sober Tatsy

D

Dee, this really upsets me. Please understand, I have the upmost respect for you and think you give stellar advice every single day. What you do is life-saving. There’s no other way to describe it. It’s simply life-saving. In this case, though, I just don’t think it hit the mark. Please let me explain. I totally respect if you disagree with me.

You made the assumption Tatsy’s AV cut her “off from support” (the regulars on her thread). I did not read it that way at all. To me, she was saying her high-level brain told her the thread advice was not working for her. And it wasn’t, right? I’d say ‘way to go, Tats!’ for finally recognizing this.

I mean, I think the thread became a little too like a cushy women’s support group. It’s value had diminished. Again, this is just my opinion. Addiction is a scary sometimes fatal reality. Casual and seemingly clever comments about cups of coffee and tea and views are, to me, worthless. I think Tatsy realized she needed direct steps, real help. I was practically getting offended by the casual nature of many of the posts. This isn’t social gathering. Someone is hanging from a cliff and needs help. Again, just my opinion.

Let’s pretend she had a serious illness like cancer and it didn’t seem likely you she was going to survive, and then she you got into this test study (called AVRT) under an unknown doctor and ended up going into remission for two years. Wow, she beat the odds and didn’t die! If that cancer then popped up again two years later, would anyone ever say, “oh, that first test study and doctor were CLEARLY awful! You are powerless! Let’s sit around and make coffee jokes because THAT will definitely help things!”

No!! They’d say run back to the doctor. RUN!!!!!!!!!

I read back through the thread, and I must wonder why no one with pushing Tatsy to to go back to what worked for her before. That was beyond frustrating to see. I see no way you can say “no one is prescribing how you have to get sober, Tatsy”, because (1)unless I’m wrong, you aren’t reading her personal correspondence and (2) I think by ignoring at least a real push to go back to AVRT, she is being not so subtly prescribed to stay away from it.

I’m disturbed that the coffee clutch crew is now not coming back to say how excited they are that she has found a way of thought that she thinks can work for her. It’s not supposed to be about the other posters right now. It’s supposed to be about Tatsy. She feels good. She feels like she is set up for success. And she has my 100% support for that. With the exception of Hawkeye and Anna, why isn’t everyone applauding this? The fact that she hasn’t gotten that round of applause and affirmation has made it clear to me that what she said in her thread was accurate.

Again, I mean this all respectfully. I truly don’t mean to be argumentative. I think what you do is amazing, Dee. I really do. And Hawkeye, I agree...there is a wealth of tools in our toolbox we should share with one another more often. Great idea. I know I’ll try every tool in everyone’s box!!
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Old 08-24-2019, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
I believe that stopping drinking once more, ignoring the AV, the addictive highway will become overgrown, and via the same process that it sprang back into life, the non-drinking neural highway will become fully operational. It’s just a mal-adaptive learning process, I believe, and this belief helps me.
I have to say, I love this
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Old 08-24-2019, 05:35 PM
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Hi So Hard

Yeah I don't agree with your characterisation of the thread as a cushy womens support group /coffee clutch crew not offering any real support.

I appreciate your concern for Tatsy is real, but I'm gonna leave you swinging in the breeze on that one bud - sorry.

Support comes in a variety of different guises and colours. We all have our different ways of interacting and sharing our experiences.

It takes a village, and it makes sense to me for that village not to made up of the same one recovery method or support template.

my AV pounced upon the words of well meaning, kind hearted folks, who related their own experiences: that they couldn’t stop and stay stopped under their own power, that they needed outside agencies, etc. Thereby weakening my resolve that I had the power over what to place in my mouth (and feeding my AV).

I've known Tatsy for a long time, and I'm sure she'll agree I've seen her get a little lost in recovery method wars.

I'm making the suggestion that her AV would not be above using that focus on different methods to seperate her from good advice, or support.

That may be an unnecessary suggestion, who knows - I hope it's totally superfluous.

I’m disturbed that the coffee clutch crew is now not coming back to say how excited they are that she has found a way of thought that she thinks can work for her. It’s not supposed to be about the other posters right now. It’s supposed to be about Tatsy. She feels good. She feels like she is set up for success. And she has my 100% support for that. With the exception of Hawkeye and Anna, why isn’t everyone applauding this? The fact that she hasn’t gotten that round of applause and affirmation has made it clear to me that what she said in her thread was accurate.
I've interacted with Tatsy on other threads too, not just this one

I don't think I've been stingey with the congrats, but if I have - congrats again Tatsy

I didn't follow any method when I got sober. I don't mind how Tatsy gets and stays sober so long as she does.

D
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Old 08-24-2019, 05:42 PM
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Hold up.

We all care about Tatsy and her success. Serving up virtual coffee and tea is a different way to let her know we care and an effort to keep it light in the absence of more information. I think Tats gets that.

I made it pretty clear in my last post where I stand. I'm a fan of AVRT, but we all have "other stuff" to deal with. AVRT says "screw support" when it comes down to drinking. Fine. But in my experience, drinking is fueled by a lot more than the simple desire to drink.

The AV will and does use every trick in the book, and that is my perception of what just happened here the other day, as I said.

You're right, I don't see anyone's PMs, so all I can go on is a host of posts that are affirming, and only one that suggests Tatsy can't do it on her own.

Apologies for speaking about you in the third person, Tats. Correct me if I said anything that is not valid.

O
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Old 08-24-2019, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Tetrax View Post
I have to say, I love this
Me too! She gets it!!!!
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Old 08-24-2019, 07:24 PM
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Tatsy, i might well be a person who you saw share her experience and figured i said you cannot do it with your own power, when i shared my experience.
to which i will say that i have no opinion on what YOU can or cannot do, and that i shared my own experience because you specifically asked for it.
i don’t volunteer it here much because of the restraints imposed on this forum.
which are likely the reason you put your thread here, i figure

and Sohard, out of all your points i would like to address just one that jumped out at me: the concept of pushing someone towards “what has worked before”. in all good conscience i cannot “push”someone towards a method that ultimately didn’t help them accomplish what they set out to do. but this is a can of worms, and not the thread to do that in, i think.
we might add that conversation to the thread Obladi started re support for folks who have relapsed?
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Old 08-24-2019, 11:58 PM
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Not ghosting Drops, just avoiding my thread, as a protection mechanism, because my AV pounced upon the words of well meaning, kind hearted folks, who related their own experiences: that they couldn’t stop and stay stopped under their own power, that they needed outside agencies, etc. Thereby weakening my resolve that I had the power over what to place in my mouth (and feeding my AV).
Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
This is classic AV tho - separate the user from the herd, cut them off from support.
It will even do it under the guise of protecting you....

The constraints of this particular forum rules aside, noones prescribing the way you have to get sober Tatsy

D
These were my exact thoughts when I read the post last night. But fear of saying the wrong thing meant I kept quiet.

I can only speak for myself that anything I posted was done with the very best of intentions. Not to trigger or avert from any form of recovery that works for the individual.

We can but try to help.

All the best Tatsy.
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