Blogs


Notices

Worst drunk ever hopes to launch into AVRT

Old 11-12-2012, 03:37 AM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Quinnleigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 43
Worst drunk ever hopes to launch into AVRT

Hello, Im new here. Despite drinking heavily for 7 years Im only just realising Im a drunk, with a big drinking problem, having just been caught drinking at work.

I drink as soon as I get up and it goes down hill from there. Despite this I am a young attractive successful person, but about to lose it all. I went to one AA meeting and knew it wasnt for me.

I have been off work and have spent 2 weeks (!!) reading the 5 part thread on AVRT, and know it is the way. My next is step is the crash course on the site and the book should arrive from Amazon (all the way here to Australia) in about a week.

I sh*t scared. Im only just admitting accepting how bad a drunk I am (as Im so high functioning and have managed to fool just about everyone, including myself apparently) and to have to make a Big Plan, as in forever forever... is my stuck point.

Even now as Im still drinking Ive begun to be aware of my AV, but I know without a committment to a big Plan, Ive no chance. Its just endemic in my society, family, relationships, country to drink. But Ive just read in another thread that to not drink is rebellious and I kinda like that.

I do not like who I have become. Who drinks before they even make their morning coffee?? Who needs to drink just to step outside the door and talk to the neighbour? How am I going to deal with this without my wine??? Who am I going to be without it?

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to the many contributers past and current who wrote in all those threads and have gone before me.

I hope I make it too.

Q
Quinnleigh is offline  
The Following 33 Users Say Thank You to Quinnleigh For This Useful Post:
4444lost (12-12-2012), Auvers (11-12-2012), azureseas (11-12-2012), bemyself (01-23-2013), Cleopatra1 (11-12-2012), clink (12-08-2012), Critica76 (11-15-2012), dybehfar (11-12-2012), Fandy (11-12-2012), GerandTwine (11-12-2012), hypochondriac (11-12-2012), jakec (11-17-2012), jazzfish (01-24-2013), KariSue (11-27-2012), koalabear (11-12-2012), Lenina (11-12-2012), Lionhearted1 (11-12-2012), LSC1 (11-12-2012), onlythetruth (11-12-2012), Pondlady (11-12-2012), ReadyAndAble (11-26-2012), RevivingOphelia (11-12-2012), RobbyRobot (11-12-2012), Robinson (01-05-2013), Scott6433 (11-24-2012), serious (11-27-2012), soberlicious (11-12-2012), tammy711 (11-13-2012), Thanume (12-11-2012), Tippingpoint (11-12-2012), topspin (11-12-2012), Toss (11-26-2012), Woohoo (11-24-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 03:48 AM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Member
 
Cleopatra1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: uk
Posts: 725
Blog Entries: 1
Smile welcome quinn

hey quinn, welcome to this section,, i hope it finds you well, and you gain much here.
i too have chosen this path,, i find avrt and rational recovery books a god send(oops maybe wrong choice of words there!) and im now 11 days sober,, not even craved or relaspsed once.
i find the book very refreshing, ive tried detoxing many different ways,, and to no avail,, until i found sr,, and the help and advice i got , is eyeopeneing,, i trully think its the right way for me,, and hope ou do too.
its very interesting isnt it? makes me wonder how i didnt find it years ago,,
so,, hope you get the book very soon,, amazon is fab eh??
and hope to hear from you and your wonderful,, future,
you can do it,, if i can ,, then hey!!!
big hugs to you , from a gloomy uk,, but not a gloomy gal xx
x lv x cleo xxx
Cleopatra1 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Cleopatra1 For This Useful Post:
LSC1 (11-12-2012), Quinnleigh (11-12-2012), Woohoo (11-24-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 03:55 AM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Quinnleigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 43
Thanks Cleo, thats nice reassurance. Did you stop from just the book or from the crash course on the site too? I am looking forward to the book (but my AV isnt)... now I know the end is near Im drinking off the hook.... I feel disgusting. But thats good in a way.

Congrats on your success... its very helpful to hear the positive stories so quickly (and seemingly effortlessly)... xxx Q
Quinnleigh is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Quinnleigh For This Useful Post:
Cleopatra1 (11-12-2012), LSC1 (11-12-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 03:57 AM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Water's Edge
Posts: 239
Blog Entries: 2
Welcome. You said you HOPE you make it. Make a list of all the people who could stop you and get them in your corner.
Auvers is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Auvers For This Useful Post:
Cleopatra1 (11-12-2012), Critica76 (11-15-2012), freshstart57 (11-12-2012), LSC1 (11-12-2012), Quinnleigh (11-12-2012), Woohoo (11-24-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 04:09 AM
  # 5 (permalink)  
Member
 
hypochondriac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5,665
Originally Posted by Quinnleigh View Post
I sh*t scared. Im only just admitting accepting how bad a drunk I am (as Im so high functioning and have managed to fool just about everyone, including myself apparently) and to have to make a Big Plan, as in forever forever... is my stuck point.
The beautiful thing about this is you don't have to be scared. It's your beast which is sh*tting it. Once you recognise your AV it is easier to dismiss it. There are lots of difficult points in early recovery, like doing anything without alcohol! But all will be well if you just don't drink. It will get better x
hypochondriac is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to hypochondriac For This Useful Post:
Cleopatra1 (11-12-2012), Lenina (11-12-2012), LSC1 (11-12-2012), Quinnleigh (11-12-2012), RevivingOphelia (11-12-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 04:20 AM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 2,859
Welcome

I'm glad you found us!

I know how it feels when EVERYONE around you seems to drink and it is ingrained in you as the only way to enjoy yourself.
But believe me when I say there is so much more to life.

Perhaps getting caught at work can be your bottom, and your life can start to go upwards. It will if you rid yourself of the misery that drink can bring.

It's not always easy, can be fustrating, can wera you down but I found it's mostly fabulous!!!!
I will never go back to how i used to be.

I hope you post more and come and share how you are doing, good or bad...

Xx
Sasha4 is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Sasha4 For This Useful Post:
Cleopatra1 (11-12-2012), Fandy (11-12-2012), Lenina (11-12-2012), LSC1 (11-12-2012), Quinnleigh (11-12-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 04:31 AM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
I used to think i was fooling people too.
a long hard stare in the mirror when not blotto drunk shows what you truly are.
every day sober is a victory, every time you choose not to drink is a victory.
You can do this and feel amazing.
Fandy is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Fandy For This Useful Post:
Cleopatra1 (11-12-2012), HitRockBottom70 (11-12-2012), Lenina (11-12-2012), LSC1 (11-12-2012), Quinnleigh (11-12-2012), Woohoo (11-24-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 05:16 AM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Self recovered Self discovered
 
freshstart57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,147
Originally Posted by Auvers View Post
Welcome. You said you HOPE you make it. Make a list of all the people who could stop you and get them in your corner.
For me, the only person that could ever stop me from getting sober was me. Nobody else had anything to do with me picking up that bottle.

Wait a minute...Oh Auvers!
freshstart57 is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to freshstart57 For This Useful Post:
HereIAm321 (01-23-2013), Lenina (11-12-2012), lilac0721 (11-12-2012), Lionhearted1 (11-12-2012), LSC1 (11-12-2012), Tippingpoint (11-12-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 05:20 AM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Member of SMART Recovery
 
onlythetruth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
Originally Posted by Quinnleigh View Post

I do not like who I have become. Who drinks before they even make their morning coffee?? Who needs to drink just to step outside the door and talk to the neighbour? How am I going to deal with this without my wine??? Who am I going to be without it?

Q
I know how this feels...most likely, everyone reading this does too. It's stunning what addiction does to good people, the way it distorts our lives. And it's also unbelievably intimidating at first, not knowing what life will be like without the addiction...so much so that we even wonder WHO WE ARE without alcohol.

Well, the thing I've found is that I turned out to be quite a nice person without the alcohol. The voice that told me I was a useless piece of crap who didn't deserve anything good, the voice that told me I needed to drink myself into a stupor to get through my miserable life: that voice was the Beast. It was all a lie.

The truth is that you are not your addiction. You are much bigger than that, and the cool thing is that now you get to see it. Enjoy learning who you are: it is amazing to finally know.
onlythetruth is offline  
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to onlythetruth For This Useful Post:
bemyself (01-23-2013), lilac0721 (11-12-2012), LSC1 (11-12-2012), Quinnleigh (11-12-2012), RobbyRobot (11-12-2012), Thanume (12-11-2012), Tippingpoint (11-12-2012), Woohoo (11-24-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 05:28 AM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Do You Believe
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 112
Hi Quinn,

Welcome! Sorry you are at this point in your life. I wish you weren't in such an uncomfortable position but many of us have been there so we all can relate. SR is a great site and has lots of vey caring helpful people. I wish the AVRT thread was a bit busier than it is but perhaps that is becuase group discussions are not necessary using AVRT. My speculation anyways.

Reading JT's "Rational Recovery: A new cure for addiction" book will exlain in great (yet simple) details on just about everything you need to know to deal with your beast. You can read much of it on Google books. At least enough to get started until your material arrives. I will say the first few days are a bit rough if you have to go through withdrawl. Have you quit yet? Have you experienced withdrawl before? Not sure where you are in the process.

I found educating myself or at least comparing notes helped me plan out my initial detox and what to expect. At the top of the alcoholism fourm there is a quitting and what to expect thread.

Let us know if you have any questions or concerns. I would be happy to lend a hand. I am not and expert my any means, but have much practical experience and others here have tons of experience.

Hang in there.
dybehfar is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to dybehfar For This Useful Post:
Cleopatra1 (11-12-2012), LSC1 (11-12-2012), onlythetruth (11-12-2012), Quinnleigh (11-13-2012), RobbyRobot (11-13-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 06:45 AM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Member
 
Cleopatra1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: uk
Posts: 725
Blog Entries: 1
ditto that dybehfar,, quinn, get stuck in on the booka,, i have not done the crash course, but have the above book, and its amazing.
so , let us know how yr doing xx
x
lv cleo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cleopatra1 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Cleopatra1 For This Useful Post:
LSC1 (11-12-2012), onlythetruth (11-12-2012), RobbyRobot (11-13-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 09:01 AM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Galatians 5:13
 
tammy711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 329
Blog Entries: 7
I followed a similar path as you, Quinnleigh. I read about AVRT online, learned a little about it - also did the free crash course. Then ordered the book. The book at first seemed like too much review, but do stick with it. I'm glad that I did. It is beyond helpful. And by the time you get to chapter 12 your knowledge and resolve about the Big Plan and your AV are so solid and personal you'll wonder how you lived so long with alcohol at the center of your lifestyle.

I was talking to my husband on a 2 hour drive this past weekend. I mentioned to him that I don't like to say or think that, "I quite drinking." He seemed surprised. I told him, "I just don't drink. Period." And of course, "I will never change my mind."

My AV is so powerless at this point. It isn't as dormant as I would like, but powerless nonetheless. I can almost find myself amused at times when I get a sneak attack that I didn't instantly recognize as my AV.

Good luck and reach out to me if you ever want to correspond about AVRT. I am an advocate and feel like each day my experiences will help others.



-----
tammy711 is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to tammy711 For This Useful Post:
freshstart57 (11-12-2012), Lenina (11-12-2012), LSC1 (11-12-2012), onlythetruth (11-12-2012), Quinnleigh (11-12-2012), RobbyRobot (11-13-2012), Thanume (12-11-2012), Tippingpoint (11-12-2012), Woohoo (11-24-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 02:19 PM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Quinnleigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 43
THANK YOU all for your support and replies.. it made me cry. I am astounded by your resolve, but even in writing that I realise it isnt resolve... its something much stronger than that...

Hypochondriac (sorry havent learnt to do the quote thing yet) - yes the Beast is Sh*t scared... I was given 2 weeks off work to pull myself together, and I had delusions I would quit in this time, but each day I have drunk more and more and the more I read and know what Im going to do (the AVRT) the more the Beast is acting up... My quantities have become huge.

My goal today was to not drink before 10.30am before my counselling session but I doubt i can... I really cant do anything without drinking - no one knows Im drunk - My own personal low is turning up plowed to my beloved nieces 5th bday party (I didnt cause a scene or anything but just the fact I couldnt do it straight).

I guess that is the main fear. How will I go on a date, how will I have sex, how will I go to a party, how will I speak to the shopkeeper, how will I talk to people at all, underneath the alcohol is a scared mess that cant do any of it (ok that sounded like the AV??). I tell myself I am drinking to manage my anxiety. That is still gonna be there??

Tammy Im glad to hear you went about finding AVRT the way I have... I found the RR site first, then this forum and got stuck reading the thread... being over in Australia the book takes a while to get here, but I spent more on shipping than the book costs to get it here asap (I got the RR Book).

I havent quit yet, I doubt I will be able to until I have read the book (AV stalling??)..

Even though My life is wasting away, I will probably get fired, not be able to have kids and other major consequences and yet I still dont want to stop.... What is wrong with me.

Actually where Im stuck is, I want to stop, but not forever. Anyone else had this one?

big love and thanks to all... youre inspiring. xx q

Last edited by Quinnleigh; 11-12-2012 at 02:23 PM. Reason: spelling
Quinnleigh is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Quinnleigh For This Useful Post:
hypochondriac (11-12-2012), Lenina (11-12-2012), LSC1 (11-12-2012), RobbyRobot (11-13-2012), Scott6433 (11-24-2012), topspin (11-12-2012), Woohoo (11-24-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 02:38 PM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Member
 
hypochondriac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5,665
There's nothing wrong with you Quinn. Like the RR stuff says, it's the response of a normal healthy brain. And you're right, all that doubt is your AV. Any thought which makes you doubt your decision to quit is your AV. It is nothing to do with wanting to stop, you already know that part of you does want to stop, it is just your AV which is stopping you. Arbitrarily set your confidence at 100% and don't engage with your AV.

I really struggled with my decision to quit. I tried and failed daily for years. When it came to it, it was a bit of a now or never moment. It was a bit depressing and I felt like I was prying the drink from my hands. I was well versed in tipping it down the sink at this point, the difficulty was not buying more the next day. AVRT worked a treat on that. By simply not engaging with my AV I managed to stick to my decision. And things started getting better almost immediately. I felt rotten for a while but mentally I was better. And things have only got better since. My only wish is that I did it sooner. This really will be the best thing you've ever done. You'll get lots of support here too. Maybe join the Class of November thread in the Newcomers forum too. Good luck x
hypochondriac is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to hypochondriac For This Useful Post:
bemyself (01-23-2013), Dalia (11-12-2012), lilac0721 (11-14-2012), onlythetruth (11-12-2012), Quinnleigh (11-13-2012), RobbyRobot (11-13-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 02:47 PM
  # 15 (permalink)  
JJK
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 145
quinn, welcome. i know what its like to not what to stop but to also want to. i was reading yesterday, some doctor on the website for hbos addiction series, was saying that "needing to hit bottom" to obtain sobriety is a huge myth. ive thought ive hit bottom several times. had horrible consequences. had nothing. and this time, although i had a short run, i just saw myself doing nothing and becoming more and more depressed about my situation, to be like, "i dont want this".

but i have to say, it does take what it takes..

again, welcome.
JJK is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JJK For This Useful Post:
onlythetruth (11-12-2012), Quinnleigh (11-13-2012), RobbyRobot (11-13-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 03:22 PM
  # 16 (permalink)  
Self recovered Self discovered
 
freshstart57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,147
Quinn, I know my first post to you was a little flippant, but believe me, I know what you are speaking of. I came to a watershed moment one day, and made the call - ENOUGH! To hell with this, I am not doing the drunk thing any longer. I have all sorts of fears, doubts, regrets, you name it, but I am going to face them sober from this moment.

That was the last drink I took, Quinn, well over a year ago now. I didn't have a book or a crash course at the time, but I did have a working knowledge of my brain. I had dealt with deprivation before, making decisions about things and sticking to them, breaking up with bad partners, standard life stuff. I was determined to put aside the drinking ideas and get on with things.

It was only after joining SR and getting some PM information from an SR member that I first learned that what I had been doing all along had a name - AVRT. I read the crash course, and eventually bought the book. I didn't need these, especially the book, but it has been useful for sure. It put things into a clearer perspective why what I was doing was working so well.

Please keep posting, there is a lot of support for you here.
freshstart57 is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to freshstart57 For This Useful Post:
Junebugapril (11-25-2012), Lenina (11-12-2012), onlythetruth (11-12-2012), Quinnleigh (11-13-2012), RobbyRobot (11-13-2012), Tippingpoint (11-12-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 04:09 PM
  # 17 (permalink)  
Not The Way way, Just the way
 
GerandTwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,414
Blog Entries: 13
Hi Quinnleigh,

The pledge method of quitting has been around for many hundreds if not thousands of years - ever since people started getting hooked and finally knowing better. So, you've picked a tried and tested way to quit for good - at some point in your future.

It sounds like you have been very successful with your drinking up until you got caught at work, and since then you have come to realize you would be better off totally abstinent. (In my case, I got caught while driving.) Nevertheless, you are continuing to drink and actually succeeding quite well at it. No further problems to speak of. But here's the rub.

Learning AVRT effectively while continuing to drink is impossible.

Your beast wants you to be mad as hell that you got caught at work, but try this. YOU are grateful you got caught at work because it jolted YOU're better thinking to pass judgement on your drinking. YOU now know you are of TWO MINDS about having more to drink, whereas before you were of just ONE MIND - do it and be careful. And guess what? I don't think you can go back ever again to being of ONE MIND about your having more to drink. You will always now be of TWO MINDS about it.

The Big Plan is not a difficult goal to attain, but first you have to begin to recognize the Beast and the Addictive Voice from your right mind, and I don't think you've done that yet.

So, make a plan to quit for 2 weeks, AND, seriously consider getting medical assistance if you have any possibility of having a serious withdrawal. You will end up loving yourself for it.

I was a binge drinker, and, as I mentioned above, it was getting caught driving under the influence that jolted me into my right mind. I knew it had to happen sooner or later, and the sooner was actually better.

GT
GerandTwine is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to GerandTwine For This Useful Post:
Dalia (11-12-2012), Junebugapril (11-25-2012), onlythetruth (11-12-2012), Quinnleigh (11-13-2012), RobbyRobot (11-13-2012), soberlicious (11-12-2012), Tippingpoint (11-12-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 04:11 PM
  # 18 (permalink)  
Do You Believe
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 112
Quinn...I have been in your situation almost exactly. I did not take time off work, but I used a sick day, a weekend, and a holiday and tried to work through the initial detox on my own (which I did) and then went back to work looking and feeling pretty bad.

Is it the initial pain of the detox which keeps throwing you back in the direction of the bottle? Is it anxiety or physical discomfort (shakes, pains, lack of clarity, etc)? If it is the latter, I see two things you can do. Talk to a Doctor and get a prescription to ease the initial pain and discomfort. If that is not possible you can enlist a friend or family member to sit with you while you go through the process and will help keep yourself honest. Whatever you do I think you need to somehow get over the initial part of the process. If it is anxiety there are lots of ways to ease that. Just be gentle with yourself and realize that it does pass. After 7 years it may take a few days before you are functional and probably 10 - 14 before you feel human again. This was my experience after drinking heavy for 4 years. YMMV. As you know, detoxing can be dangerous so you should seek medical advice if at all possible.

As a last ditch effort the other thing you can do is to taper down. Strictly set a limit of how much you drink and start bringing it down slowly over time. This is hard and fraught with dangers of slipping. Here a friend could help you as well.

It has been my experience that I was incapable of following AVRT for several days after quitting. I understood the concepts, but I was absolutely in the throes of detox and couldn't do anything about it. I could not help myself. I tried valerian root and various herbs for relaxation. Someone on this site once said, "do whatever it takes to get over the first few days" so that you can attack the problem with some sort of clarity.

That is what I did. I was hopeless and felt no other way was possible. In the end it took my wife to help me through the process and keep me away from the easy way out of grabbing a drink. I know you can do it.
dybehfar is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to dybehfar For This Useful Post:
GerandTwine (11-12-2012), Junebugapril (11-25-2012), Quinnleigh (11-13-2012), RobbyRobot (11-13-2012), soberlicious (11-12-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 04:22 PM
  # 19 (permalink)  
Do You Believe
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 112
As for forever....it has been posted here by RobbyRobot, whom I greatly respect, that you simply cannot fathom "forever" in the beginning. That is so very true. You can set your big plan and start using AVRT, but the ability to truely accept forever will come. The first phase is to start recognizing the AV and learning to deal / cope with it.

Make the plan. Share it with a family member, or friend if necessary so that you have some skin in the game. From the sounds of it you do not accept failure easily. I certainly do not, and it took this step for me to get started in earnest. "I cannot fail in their eyes" sort of thing. It is not necessary, but I needed that little crutch to get started. YMMV.
dybehfar is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to dybehfar For This Useful Post:
RobbyRobot (11-13-2012)
Old 11-12-2012, 04:25 PM
  # 20 (permalink)  
Member of SMART Recovery
 
onlythetruth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
Originally Posted by Quinnleigh View Post
I guess that is the main fear. How will I go on a date, how will I have sex, how will I go to a party, how will I speak to the shopkeeper, how will I talk to people at all, underneath the alcohol is a scared mess that cant do any of it (ok that sounded like the AV??). I tell myself I am drinking to manage my anxiety. That is still gonna be there??
.....
Actually where Im stuck is, I want to stop, but not forever. Anyone else had this one?
That's right--the fear is pure AV. You most certainly CAN date, have sex, socialize and do business without drinking. Not only that, but far from being the answer to your anxiety, your anxiety is either caused by, or made worse by drinking.

As far as wanting to stop...but not forever? The more I think about it, the more I wonder if this could be a sneaky AV thing: "you don't want to quit forever, so you have to keep drinking". Sort of like turning the Big Plan against you. I don't know if our resident AVRT experts (I am not one) would agree with this notion or not, but it's something to think about.
onlythetruth is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to onlythetruth For This Useful Post:
applecake (12-05-2012), Quinnleigh (11-13-2012), RobbyRobot (11-13-2012), soberlicious (11-12-2012), ZiggyB (11-24-2012)

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:14 AM.