Worst drunk ever hopes to launch into AVRT
Galatians 5:13
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 329
Quinnleigh,
I struggled with the forever until just recently. I read one of the chapters in the RR book and OMGosh it was like the chapter was written for me. Well, I should say my AV struggled with 'forever'. In the back of my mind when I said, "I will never drink again", I was secretly whispering to myself, "well, when you're 70 or 80 years old, you can drink. You can enjoy a few glasses of wine again. And at that age who would care if you drank too much!?"
I kept those thoughts to myself because, why not drink then!? I won't have anything else going on! Oh boy, I kept that thought for the longest time. I harbored it with the same type of secrecy I use to hide the amount of wine I drank each day. I really didn't care either, because it made sense to me.
Then one night while making progress in the RR book, I came across a chapter about common AV tricks. My AV got me. It didn't get me to drink, but it kept me from the true freedom and liberation of "never again!"
Quinnleigh, I don't drink and I will never change my mind.
I hope you don't think you're alone, Quinnleigh. As much as we think we are unique drunks, I have discovered we all have so much in common. We just colored within our lines different shades of gray.
I, like you, feared doing things sober. Not so much out of anxiety. I knew things just wouldn't be as much fun without my best friend in the whole wide world, chardonnay. I feared losing things I loved to do because I wouldn't enjoy them sober. I can tell you with all honesty, I absolutely ENJOY them more! I can't even believe I am saying those words let alone living this life.
I hope you find the answers you're looking for and I can 100% guarantee you one thing. Your answers won't be found in a bottle of wine (or a box of it ;- )
Cheers!
Tammy
PS: Please note my AV's use of the word "you" in my first paragraph. A great way to detect "it".
-----
I struggled with the forever until just recently. I read one of the chapters in the RR book and OMGosh it was like the chapter was written for me. Well, I should say my AV struggled with 'forever'. In the back of my mind when I said, "I will never drink again", I was secretly whispering to myself, "well, when you're 70 or 80 years old, you can drink. You can enjoy a few glasses of wine again. And at that age who would care if you drank too much!?"
I kept those thoughts to myself because, why not drink then!? I won't have anything else going on! Oh boy, I kept that thought for the longest time. I harbored it with the same type of secrecy I use to hide the amount of wine I drank each day. I really didn't care either, because it made sense to me.
Then one night while making progress in the RR book, I came across a chapter about common AV tricks. My AV got me. It didn't get me to drink, but it kept me from the true freedom and liberation of "never again!"
Quinnleigh, I don't drink and I will never change my mind.
I hope you don't think you're alone, Quinnleigh. As much as we think we are unique drunks, I have discovered we all have so much in common. We just colored within our lines different shades of gray.
I, like you, feared doing things sober. Not so much out of anxiety. I knew things just wouldn't be as much fun without my best friend in the whole wide world, chardonnay. I feared losing things I loved to do because I wouldn't enjoy them sober. I can tell you with all honesty, I absolutely ENJOY them more! I can't even believe I am saying those words let alone living this life.
I hope you find the answers you're looking for and I can 100% guarantee you one thing. Your answers won't be found in a bottle of wine (or a box of it ;- )
Cheers!
Tammy
PS: Please note my AV's use of the word "you" in my first paragraph. A great way to detect "it".
-----
Last edited by tammy711; 11-12-2012 at 05:37 PM. Reason: typo
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
I guess that is the main fear. How will I go on a date, how will I have sex, how will I go to a party, how will I speak to the shopkeeper, how will I talk to people at all, underneath the alcohol is a scared mess that cant do any of it (ok that sounded like the AV??).
When you do (and you will) date, have sex, go to parties, conversate with others without alcohol, with clarity, with authenticity, with confidence, with candor, you will experience such a sense of freedom and fearlessness...it's a far better high than the booze ever provided. Any thought or notion that you can't do this is false, it's pure AV. You can.
You really need to be clean from the booze for at least a few days for the RR stuff to sink in. Do whatever it takes to keep the alcohol out of your body so that you have the necessary clarity to read.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto ON
Posts: 1,180
Originally Posted by onlythetruth 
I know how this feels...most likely, everyone reading this does too. It's stunning what addiction does to good people, the way it distorts our lives. And it's also unbelievably intimidating at first, not knowing what life will be like without the addiction...so much so that we even wonder WHO WE ARE without alcohol.
Well, the thing I've found is that I turned out to be quite a nice person without the alcohol. The voice that told me I was a useless piece of crap who didn't deserve anything good, the voice that told me I needed to drink myself into a stupor to get through my miserable life: that voice was the Beast. It was all a lie.
The truth is that you are not your addiction. You are much bigger than that, and the cool thing is that now you get to see it. Enjoy learning who you are: it is amazing to finally know.
Well, the thing I've found is that I turned out to be quite a nice person without the alcohol. The voice that told me I was a useless piece of crap who didn't deserve anything good, the voice that told me I needed to drink myself into a stupor to get through my miserable life: that voice was the Beast. It was all a lie.
The truth is that you are not your addiction. You are much bigger than that, and the cool thing is that now you get to see it. Enjoy learning who you are: it is amazing to finally know.
My voice told me all the same crap. Screw 'em both!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto ON
Posts: 1,180
Quinnleigh,
Like the others have said...time to walk the talk...quit drinking.
It took me about 8 months before I could get my head around the big plan. More important initially is that you start to disassociate from your av. Not drinking will give you some perspective that simply isn't possible in your current state.
Once I got free and clear of the beast I was finally able to commit to never...best moment ever! Truly liberating and so exciting to be free of that guilt, that shame...forever.
It all starts with stopping though.
Btw... I just recently passed the 500 day mark...
Like the others have said...time to walk the talk...quit drinking.
It took me about 8 months before I could get my head around the big plan. More important initially is that you start to disassociate from your av. Not drinking will give you some perspective that simply isn't possible in your current state.
Once I got free and clear of the beast I was finally able to commit to never...best moment ever! Truly liberating and so exciting to be free of that guilt, that shame...forever.
It all starts with stopping though.
Btw... I just recently passed the 500 day mark...
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Welcome to SR, Quinnleigh!
You have a great start with this amazing thread! So much honesty and experience coming from all directions, lol. You're in good company for sure.
AVRT is a self-learned skill. Trial and error experience. As we go along, our clarity becomes crystal and sure. As we separate from our AV, as we realise it is our respective Beast's addictive desire for alcohol, and not of our own... as we feel our Beast's feelings as not ours, then we truly are able to more experience the real life of a non-drinker, a happy and satisfying daily experience for so many who have quit drinking now and forever.
Forget about forever for now. Now is enough to eventually bring you into forever. It will happen for you, no problemo. Eventually, the idea of forever will bring a sense of deep gratitude and surety that all is well with the universe no matter the challenge before any of us.
Your Big Plan will come into its own soon enough. As was noted by several posters in the thread, our Beast of course hates Big Plans, and will do anything to use our own Big Plans against us. Not a problem, really, when one gets past the fears and doubts we all have had early on in our experience of quitting drinking, we realise the Beast is the one who is actually afraid, and doubtful. We are in fact resolute with our Big Plan in hand.
AVRT is an intimate personal experience of a beautiful event, and series of events, of becoming and being now and forever, a non-drinker!
Awesomely interesting thread.
You have a great start with this amazing thread! So much honesty and experience coming from all directions, lol. You're in good company for sure.
AVRT is a self-learned skill. Trial and error experience. As we go along, our clarity becomes crystal and sure. As we separate from our AV, as we realise it is our respective Beast's addictive desire for alcohol, and not of our own... as we feel our Beast's feelings as not ours, then we truly are able to more experience the real life of a non-drinker, a happy and satisfying daily experience for so many who have quit drinking now and forever.
Forget about forever for now. Now is enough to eventually bring you into forever. It will happen for you, no problemo. Eventually, the idea of forever will bring a sense of deep gratitude and surety that all is well with the universe no matter the challenge before any of us.
Your Big Plan will come into its own soon enough. As was noted by several posters in the thread, our Beast of course hates Big Plans, and will do anything to use our own Big Plans against us. Not a problem, really, when one gets past the fears and doubts we all have had early on in our experience of quitting drinking, we realise the Beast is the one who is actually afraid, and doubtful. We are in fact resolute with our Big Plan in hand.
AVRT is an intimate personal experience of a beautiful event, and series of events, of becoming and being now and forever, a non-drinker!
Awesomely interesting thread.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto ON
Posts: 1,180
Early in sobriety, I thought I had a big plan...but deep down, I knew that it wasn't rock solid - it was more like, "I will never drink again and I will never change my mind until such a time as I think it is safe to do so..." .
I can distinctly remember using the mantra to ward off urges at trigger moments...whispering to myself..."I will never drink again and I will never change my mind!" But I still didn't really mean it in the ultimate sense...it was more like...I will not drink today and I will not change my mind! Hanging on by a thread.
I really liked what someone said earlier in the thread about having a plan to drink when they were much, much older and how they soon realized that having that out for the beast was allowing the beast to rob them of the tremendous freedom that the Big Plan delivers. This is very important...a rock solid big plan that you truly embrace and believe deep into your soul is the key to recovery. It is so simple, yet so hard to achieve. For me, when I was able to make that transition from future drinker to non-drinker the feeling was indescribable. The closest approximation of a worthy descriptor is ENLIGHTENMENT.
I can distinctly remember using the mantra to ward off urges at trigger moments...whispering to myself..."I will never drink again and I will never change my mind!" But I still didn't really mean it in the ultimate sense...it was more like...I will not drink today and I will not change my mind! Hanging on by a thread.
I really liked what someone said earlier in the thread about having a plan to drink when they were much, much older and how they soon realized that having that out for the beast was allowing the beast to rob them of the tremendous freedom that the Big Plan delivers. This is very important...a rock solid big plan that you truly embrace and believe deep into your soul is the key to recovery. It is so simple, yet so hard to achieve. For me, when I was able to make that transition from future drinker to non-drinker the feeling was indescribable. The closest approximation of a worthy descriptor is ENLIGHTENMENT.
Galatians 5:13
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
Forget about forever for now. Now is enough to eventually bring you into forever. It will happen for you, no problemo. Eventually, the idea of forever will bring a sense of deep gratitude and surety that all is well with the universe no matter the challenge before any of us.
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
Awesomely interesting thread.
---
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Thanks, Tammy. I'm always enthused by your upbeat attitudes!
Sometimes I don't feel worthy either. It happens to all of us, those moments, no matter our particular longevity. Life is a dynamic happening-in-the-now experience, so in that way, we're all new to the scene.
Rock On!
Sometimes I don't feel worthy either. It happens to all of us, those moments, no matter our particular longevity. Life is a dynamic happening-in-the-now experience, so in that way, we're all new to the scene.
Rock On!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 43
HYPOCHONDRIAC “I really struggled with my decision to quit. I tried and failed daily for years”
Yes, everyday Im going to do it tomorrow, or next Monday, but my AV keeps telling me its for the anxiety, Im going through a break up, it would be just mean to quit now (it’s really burrowing in there)..
GERANDTWINE: “Learning AVRT effectively while continuing to drink is impossible.”
Why? There isn’t any other way for me to do it. AVRT is going to be my weapon, without it, it will just be like all the other days I have tried to quit and ended up at the Bottle shop anyway…. I have to prepare before hand, and plan to keep reading it for as long as it takes… (But yes part of me loves it that the book hasn’t arrived yet – any excuse to continue – at least I can see that now).
On the Big Plan
So Im having trouble with the forever part. I can commit to quitting for 2,6, 12 months or something but I feel exactly like what Tipping Point said
Tipping Point: “Early in sobriety, I thought I had a big plan...but deep down, I knew that it wasn't rock solid - it was more like, "I will never drink again and I will never change my mind until such a time as I think it is safe to do so..." .
Other suggestions in this (wonderful) thread have been..
“So, make a plan to quit for 2 weeks” – Gerand Twine
“Forget about forever for now. – Robby Robot
But the strength in the method seems to be in the finality of it. I will never drink and I will never change my mind. It’s the NEVER that gives it the complete lock down that will kill the Beast. Without it, my beast has wriggle room, will spot the loophole, and talk me down from 2 weeks, to “oh you’ve done 3 days, well done, that’s enough”….
There is something in the certainty, finality, of saying “I will never change my mind” that is empowering.
If only I could do it. Because I only want to quit for a while. But I know it has to be forever.
Are you saying, just make a start, without a Big Plan, and get some clean time under my belt? then the moment will come along where I'll want it to be forever? I think my beast would wear me down before then...
As for detoxing.... i have quit before, but I dont experience too bad a withdrawal, no shakes or sweats, dont know why, I might this time and my quantities are bigger. I certainly get irritable and hate the world, but I do have diazepam which helps the first few days....
Tomorrow I go back to work. I wish I had nailed it in this time off. But I havent but the day will come. I will keep reading the website, and at some point I have to make a date and jump...
Yes, everyday Im going to do it tomorrow, or next Monday, but my AV keeps telling me its for the anxiety, Im going through a break up, it would be just mean to quit now (it’s really burrowing in there)..
GERANDTWINE: “Learning AVRT effectively while continuing to drink is impossible.”
Why? There isn’t any other way for me to do it. AVRT is going to be my weapon, without it, it will just be like all the other days I have tried to quit and ended up at the Bottle shop anyway…. I have to prepare before hand, and plan to keep reading it for as long as it takes… (But yes part of me loves it that the book hasn’t arrived yet – any excuse to continue – at least I can see that now).
On the Big Plan
So Im having trouble with the forever part. I can commit to quitting for 2,6, 12 months or something but I feel exactly like what Tipping Point said
Tipping Point: “Early in sobriety, I thought I had a big plan...but deep down, I knew that it wasn't rock solid - it was more like, "I will never drink again and I will never change my mind until such a time as I think it is safe to do so..." .
Other suggestions in this (wonderful) thread have been..
“So, make a plan to quit for 2 weeks” – Gerand Twine
“Forget about forever for now. – Robby Robot
But the strength in the method seems to be in the finality of it. I will never drink and I will never change my mind. It’s the NEVER that gives it the complete lock down that will kill the Beast. Without it, my beast has wriggle room, will spot the loophole, and talk me down from 2 weeks, to “oh you’ve done 3 days, well done, that’s enough”….
There is something in the certainty, finality, of saying “I will never change my mind” that is empowering.
If only I could do it. Because I only want to quit for a while. But I know it has to be forever.
Are you saying, just make a start, without a Big Plan, and get some clean time under my belt? then the moment will come along where I'll want it to be forever? I think my beast would wear me down before then...
As for detoxing.... i have quit before, but I dont experience too bad a withdrawal, no shakes or sweats, dont know why, I might this time and my quantities are bigger. I certainly get irritable and hate the world, but I do have diazepam which helps the first few days....
Tomorrow I go back to work. I wish I had nailed it in this time off. But I havent but the day will come. I will keep reading the website, and at some point I have to make a date and jump...
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5,678
Originally Posted by Quinnleigh
GERANDTWINE: “Learning AVRT effectively while continuing to drink is impossible.”
Why? There isn’t any other way for me to do it. AVRT is going to be my weapon, without it, it will just be like all the other days I have tried to quit and ended up at the Bottle shop anyway…. I have to prepare before hand, and plan to keep reading it for as long as it takes… (But yes part of me loves it that the book hasn’t arrived yet – any excuse to continue – at least I can see that now).
Why? There isn’t any other way for me to do it. AVRT is going to be my weapon, without it, it will just be like all the other days I have tried to quit and ended up at the Bottle shop anyway…. I have to prepare before hand, and plan to keep reading it for as long as it takes… (But yes part of me loves it that the book hasn’t arrived yet – any excuse to continue – at least I can see that now).
There is no reason why you can't read up on AVRT while you're still drinking, just be prepared to revisit it sober. If you have done the crash course on line and read all the threads on here I reckon that's more than enough to get you started.
Regarding the forever thing, I think the RR book has a bit on 'forever' being 'now'. It's a bit like ODAAT but not. The only time is now. So when tomorrow comes it is 'now'. It made my head hurt a bit but I like it. Basically, stop worrying about the stuff that happens in the future because the future is now, or something. I'm sure someone with more knowledge on AVRT will explain it better...
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
I looked at it the same way, hypochondriac. Never? When I am 80? When my daughters get married? No, I am not doing that, but I will commit to not drinking 'now'. I learned more about this idea, and it took me to the concept of being mindful and being present. I then committed to 'I will never now drink'.
Quinn, you are right, when I realized that permanent forever sobriety was what I wanted to do, the 'never ever' aspect was liberating. Finally, I am free.
Quinn, you are right, when I realized that permanent forever sobriety was what I wanted to do, the 'never ever' aspect was liberating. Finally, I am free.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by Quinnleigh
Other suggestions in this (wonderful) thread have been..
“So, make a plan to quit for 2 weeks” – Gerand Twine
“Forget about forever for now. – Robby Robot
But the strength in the method seems to be in the finality of it. I will never drink and I will never change my mind. It’s the NEVER that gives it the complete lock down that will kill the Beast. Without it, my beast has wriggle room, will spot the loophole, and talk me down from 2 weeks, to “oh you’ve done 3 days, well done, that’s enough”….
There is something in the certainty, finality, of saying “I will never change my mind” that is empowering.
If only I could do it. Because I only want to quit for a while. But I know it has to be forever.
Are you saying, just make a start, without a Big Plan, and get some clean time under my belt? then the moment will come along where I'll want it to be forever? I think my beast would wear me down before then...
“So, make a plan to quit for 2 weeks” – Gerand Twine
“Forget about forever for now. – Robby Robot
But the strength in the method seems to be in the finality of it. I will never drink and I will never change my mind. It’s the NEVER that gives it the complete lock down that will kill the Beast. Without it, my beast has wriggle room, will spot the loophole, and talk me down from 2 weeks, to “oh you’ve done 3 days, well done, that’s enough”….
There is something in the certainty, finality, of saying “I will never change my mind” that is empowering.
If only I could do it. Because I only want to quit for a while. But I know it has to be forever.
Are you saying, just make a start, without a Big Plan, and get some clean time under my belt? then the moment will come along where I'll want it to be forever? I think my beast would wear me down before then...
A Big Plan works, without fail, because it calls out the Beast from it's hidden secret lair, compels and forces it into the revealing and healing light of a sans-alcohol life. The Beast now suffers.
The Beast knows it's game is up, and it reacts like a stupid, miserable, viscious animal that fears it's immediate death, no less. Although it never really dies...
The distinctions between ourselves and our Beast, the Addictive Voice being recognised as it attempts to convince us we are speaking with our own voice, as if we don't want to quit forever... and just drink away our torments.
There you have it. Its actually total AV that you don't want to quit forever, or you're not sure, or waiting, or not so fast. Its not YOU, though. Its YOUR Beast that dosen't want to quit forever.
The Big Plan makes it easy to descriminate between ourselves and our respective Beasts.
However.
If a Big Plan is made "to soon, or ill-prepared" for the onslaught of AV which will immediately follow such a plan, all to often the person just can't get it straight who is the Beast, the AV, and themselves respectively. Often it is better to wait n' bait the Beast a bit, discover it's basic AV, and all the while learn some essential AVRT skills. Then make an informed Big Plan decision that has success written all over it!
So, when I say "forget about forever for now" I'm saying a Big Plan is not required the same moment you quit drinking. A Big Plan is required when you need to examine your Beast and its dialogue with you via your AV. Again, when you "know" the Beast is the Beast, its time for a Big Plan.
Otherwise, just making a Big Plan to be polictically correct and go-with-the-flow-camp is not really the best strategy going forward, imo.
So, learn and become prepared to make your Beast suffer. Make it wail. Make it howl. Kick it down and out. Then walk away, and forget about it, the Beast. Indifference to its existence is what a Big Plan eventually delivers on.
Living in the now is a surety of eventually living in forever. Time is such a relative experience. A true paradox.
Good questions, Quinnleigh. I hope I've helped explain my statements.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by hypochondriac
If you are drinking you will not hear your AV. You're still feeding it booze so it's all sedate and happy. Take away it's favourite toy and it will kick up a big stink and the work really begins
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto ON
Posts: 1,180
Let me get this straight...
Can't commit to not drink for a short time as that would surely lead to drinking.
Not ready to make a big plan...still got some drinking to do.
Who's running this show?
Can't commit to not drink for a short time as that would surely lead to drinking.
Not ready to make a big plan...still got some drinking to do.
Who's running this show?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto ON
Posts: 1,180
And...because it took me a very long time to figure out how to quote and multi quote other people's posts...
There's a little button at the bottom right of each post with a + and a " mark on it. Click it for the posts you would like to quote. Then click the Post Reply button at the bottom of the page. You will then be able to edit and reply to all the posts that you selected.
There's a little button at the bottom right of each post with a + and a " mark on it. Click it for the posts you would like to quote. Then click the Post Reply button at the bottom of the page. You will then be able to edit and reply to all the posts that you selected.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
But the strength in the method seems to be in the finality of it. I will never drink and I will never change my mind. It’s the NEVER that gives it the complete lock down that will kill the Beast. Without it, my beast has wriggle room, will spot the loophole, and talk me down from 2 weeks, to “oh you’ve done 3 days, well done, that’s enough”….
There is something in the certainty, finality, of saying “I will never change my mind” that is empowering.
If only I could do it. Because I only want to quit for a while. But I know it has to be forever.
There is something in the certainty, finality, of saying “I will never change my mind” that is empowering.
If only I could do it. Because I only want to quit for a while. But I know it has to be forever.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 43
Today was my first day back at work (after being caught drinking there).
Today for the first time in a long time I was sober all day, until 10.30pm at night when my shift finished.
It is not much of an accomplishment, but I am pleased with myself.
I know you say I cant yet hear my AV as Im still drinking, but I have already begun to hear it. I hear it say, "have another glass, yep go on open the next bottle, um no dont go out to the clothes line, drink this first, it will be easier...."..
Today when I took "its favourite toy away" .... I had a slight withdrawal, and really heard it, wanting to go drink in my break, but I just kept wanting to achieve this small thing (of not drinking til I got home).
And when I got here, the book arrive. So it's on. Time to immerse in the book. Take the leap. Thanks all for the support and guidance so far. I feel not worthy as Im still a boozer, but when I do it, I'll post again, and no doubt need lots of tips as to my tricky sticky beast..
big love. x x Q
Today for the first time in a long time I was sober all day, until 10.30pm at night when my shift finished.
It is not much of an accomplishment, but I am pleased with myself.
I know you say I cant yet hear my AV as Im still drinking, but I have already begun to hear it. I hear it say, "have another glass, yep go on open the next bottle, um no dont go out to the clothes line, drink this first, it will be easier...."..
Today when I took "its favourite toy away" .... I had a slight withdrawal, and really heard it, wanting to go drink in my break, but I just kept wanting to achieve this small thing (of not drinking til I got home).
And when I got here, the book arrive. So it's on. Time to immerse in the book. Take the leap. Thanks all for the support and guidance so far. I feel not worthy as Im still a boozer, but when I do it, I'll post again, and no doubt need lots of tips as to my tricky sticky beast..
big love. x x Q
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
I feel not worthy as Im still a boozer,
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
