Go Back  SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information > Secular Recovery > Secular Connections
Reload this Page >

Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion — Part 3

Blogs


Notices

Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion — Part 3

Old 01-20-2012, 08:50 AM
  # 341 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by Thrifty View Post
I will never drink again and I will never change my mind. Made my big plan.
Congratulations, Thrifty. Welcome to the world of the living.

Originally Posted by Thrifty View Post
I agree that Jack seems like a really [nice] guy.
For the purposes of our own addiction recovery, it doesn't really matter whether he is or not, for the simple reason that Jack didn't invent AVRT. It is simply the collected lore, or wisdom, of self-recovery, essentially a body of knowledge. Jack certainly studied the subject and synthesized a coherent paradigm that could be taught, but it was around before Trimpey ever existed, and it will be around long after he is gone.
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
FT (01-20-2012), soberlicious (01-20-2012), Thrifty (01-21-2012), topspin (01-21-2012)
Old 01-20-2012, 09:39 AM
  # 342 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 364
Originally Posted by Thrifty View Post
I will never drink again and I will never change my mind.

Made my big plan.

Another motivating factor for me to do this right now is that I signed up for a 12 week nutritional weight loss program with a consultant. I was pretty shocked to realize that I need to lose about 20 pounds. I didn't think I was that bad. I start a 7 day detox tomorrow to jump start the program. It's all vegetables and some fruits. Obviously no alcohol. I know the beast wouldn't care if I had 100 pounds to lose and my blood pressure was through the roof, the AV is still going to be ruthless.

I know it's not only extremely unhealthy for me to continue to drink, it's extremely immoral for me. If I continue with my lifestyle, something is bound to happen to me sooner rather than later. That will leave my husband and
son to care for me and for my autistic son.

In all my attempts to curb my drinking in the past, I don't think I ever thought about the immorality issue. I always thought of it as something I'm compelled to do and I somehow never thought of the consequences as being my fault. It was as though the consequenses were something happening to me. The "disease mentality".

I agree that Jack seems like a really guy.
Congratulations! Once I got it sussed I dropped a quick email of thanks to Jack and got a reply pretty much straight away—which isn't bad given the eight hour time difference.

By the way, if you're interested I can recommend a book that will allow you to safely lose that weight in half the time, without having to pay a nutritionist. PM me if you're interested.
kanamit is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to kanamit For This Useful Post:
FT (01-20-2012), Thrifty (01-21-2012)
Old 01-20-2012, 03:27 PM
  # 343 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by Harambulus View Post
Last night my beast was having a field day in my dreams. I dreamt I found an ecstacy tablet and was researching online whehter it was a good one or not.
Though not universal, drinking or using dreams are common. Nothing to be concerned about, since you can't very well get high when you are asleep. You might hear the AV when you wake up, making a big deal out of it, but it just means the Beast is in retreat, getting weaker. If it weren't getting weaker, it would come out and play when you are awake instead of when you are paralyzed.
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
FT (01-20-2012), topspin (01-21-2012)
Old 01-20-2012, 03:40 PM
  # 344 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,272
So many people kicking their addictions.
I love this thread. I find the people here smart, funny, and able to converse about serious and sometimes very controversial topics in such a skillful way.
Damn...I almost feel like giving parenthases hugs.
soberlicious is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to soberlicious For This Useful Post:
DrivenHeart85 (01-21-2012), freshstart57 (01-26-2012), Tippingpoint (01-21-2012), topspin (01-21-2012)
Old 01-20-2012, 03:58 PM
  # 345 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
So many people kicking their addictions.
By its very nature, AVRT goes straight for the jugular, skipping the detours that might prolong the addiction. It really is recovery with an attitude.

Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
Damn...I almost feel like giving parenthases hugs.
NO, NO, NO !
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
FT (01-20-2012), soberlicious (01-20-2012), Thrifty (01-21-2012), topspin (01-21-2012)
Old 01-21-2012, 06:25 PM
  # 346 (permalink)  
Always, Never & Forever
 
DrivenHeart85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest
Posts: 313
I ditto that comment soberlicious! I've been trying to read when I can on here but have been quite busy lately...and it's FANTASTIC! lol I'm working 50 hours a week and at the gym 6 hours a week...have lost about 15 lbs since December and not drinking is the most ridiculously easy thing ever with AVRT. I'm working at getting my life back now and am so happy about it! Sorry, that's all a really overly positive attitude for me...I kinda wanna give myself the stink eye for sounding so peppy. bahaha But thanks again to everyone posting on this thread!
DrivenHeart85 is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to DrivenHeart85 For This Useful Post:
FT (01-21-2012), soberlicious (01-21-2012), Terminally Unique (01-21-2012), topspin (01-21-2012)
Old 01-21-2012, 07:57 PM
  # 347 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 123
Sorry to dampen the positive mood on here at the moment but wanted to be completely honest - without that, was is the point in even posting

I know AVRT is not about counting days but just so you know where I'm at

Hadnt drunk for almost two weeks

My book arrived and was reading section one - was at section two (just starting) at the hair dressers yesterday and full on Beast Attack. They had all these photos of Salon Parties with women drinking wine etc (my drug of choice) and I gave into the Beast - "drink until you've finished the second section of the book... you never really did a proper big plan anyway because you didnt even HAVE the book you just read stuff on the internet and did the free online course to make your big plan.. you were hung over for goodness sake"

And yesterday I did drink - a bottle of wine in fact.. didnt get 'drunk' and was able to stop at the one bottle even though there was heaps more available. Which is also my Beast telling me that I can in fact control it.

Have been reading reading reading and am up to page 132 of the second section. Even Jack points out that for some people perhaps they can drink moderately and before making a Big Plan you need to really decide if you are ready to commit to lifetime abstinence(which my Beast LOVED the idea of) but I know that the structural model of addiction eoes totally apply to me

My Beast LOVES the idea of moderate drinking but as soon as I start I always have more than I intend because the desire for more takes over and my self control diminshes as the neocortex shuts off (because it is being inebriated by the booze)

So a couple of things - which I'd really like to get your opinions on?

I think when I made my original Big Plan I probably hadnt researched the AVRT technique thoroughly enough and making my Big Plan was a knee jerk reaction to my last drinking spree and the consequences OF rather than really studying the structural model of addiction and being ready to do this once and for all. I think in the back of my mind I was holding onto the fact I didnt really need to quit until I'd finished the book.

Having made a Big Plan - albeit most likely prematurely ( hadnt read the book but I did do quite a bit of research subsequently online) and now having drunk.. have I screwed up?? My neocortex tells me no that I can make a decision at any time to be a non drinker .. my consciousness decides and only that part of my brain can physcially do anything...

But my beast tells me Yes I have stuffed up and now no return. Research on here has pointed out that if you continue to drink and use AVRT you weaken it's power

So have I stuffed up to the point of no return?? Did any others of you who have now achieved permanent abstinence want to do it while having some awareness of AVRT, drink again and then when having fully read the book etc 'get it' and it stuck???

Suprisingly, waking up today I didnt feel in total despair like I had when relaspsing in AA. I just thought "well I obviously hadnt really made my big plan (because I had the outclause for when I had finished the book) there is nothing wrong with me, i'm not diseased, I just let my Beast and AV make my mind up that it was OK to drink until I finsished the book.

Any encourgament or advice would be most helpful??
Peta is offline  
Old 01-21-2012, 08:04 PM
  # 348 (permalink)  
Member
 
Watcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 36
I did have a good knowledge and the only absence was making a big plan. I returned to drinking and it was just as before.

I then made a decision, re-affirmed my intent to myself and began my abstinence.

I know it's tired and used much here, but what are your future plans for the use of alcohol?


If you answer that truthfully to yourself, everything else kind of falls into place.


The doubts you have about effectiveness of the technique due to your mistake are pure AV. Ignore it if you are ready. The beast loves to plant seeds of doubt.
Watcher is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Watcher For This Useful Post:
freshstart57 (02-03-2012), Terminally Unique (01-21-2012)
Old 01-21-2012, 08:35 PM
  # 349 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by Peta View Post
Having made a Big Plan - albeit most likely prematurely ( hadnt read the book but I did do quite a bit of research subsequently online) and now having drunk.. have I screwed up??
Well, you did change your mind about not drinking, but you did succeed at drinking, which is certainly your prerogative. You are free to do what you want to do with your life.

Originally Posted by Peta View Post
My neocortex tells me no that I can make a decision at any time to be a non drinker .. my consciousness decides and only that part of my brain can physcially do anything...

But my beast tells me Yes I have stuffed up and now no return.
The Beast is going to be pull up your "rap sheet" and point out what a big failure you are, but it means nothing. As you said, you can decide at any time to finally knock it off for good, but it is something you will have decide on, since one can really do this for you. What I would recommend is that you make a temporary "big plan" that goes like this: "I will not drink again until I have read the RR book twice, within the next two weeks."

Then, when you are neither drunk nor hung over, read the book, read these threads, read the other material I sent you, and then read the book again, paying close attention to the exercises the second time around. The AVRT Matrix, Relapse Anxiety Grid, Addiction Diction, Shifting, and Aggressive Listening sections are worth reading closely. At that point, you should have a fairly good understanding of AVRT, and should be able to make a decision. You can also post any questions on here.
Terminally Unique is offline  
Old 01-21-2012, 08:46 PM
  # 350 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by DrivenHeart85 View Post
... have been quite busy lately...and it's FANTASTIC! I'm working 50 hours a week and at the gym 6 hours a week...have lost about 15 lbs since December and not drinking is the most ridiculously easy thing ever with AVRT.
So, you mean to say that you're not a dry drunk? I'm glad to hear that you are doing well, April. While it is indeed easy once you get the hang of AVRT, there is a potential downside to this. Your AV might one day say "since it was so easy to quit before, you can start drinking again and quit any time now that you know AVRT so well." I trust you'll know how to deal with that idea.
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
DrivenHeart85 (01-22-2012)
Old 01-21-2012, 09:17 PM
  # 351 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
AVRT Tip

I posted this in another thread in the main forums, but it technically is an AVRT Tip, so I am re-posting here for reference.

I go from KNOWING I can do this, to feeling like a lost little girl in just a day or two. Thinking "one or two" wont hurt... Why can I quit so easily for brief amounts of time, just to return to the same freaking thing!?!
Are you stopping because you think you will feel bad when you drink? If so, here is what usually happens. You feel bad after a bout of drinking, so you stop, telling yourself that you are stopping because it feels bad to drink. However, there is another part of you that knows perfectly well that there was once a time when drinking felt really, really good, and that part of you may never go away.

So, you hold out with this strategy for a while, but eventually, you start to forget the pain, which was your reason for quitting. Unfortunately, since you won't easily forget the pleasure you once derived from drinking, a little voice in your head starts talking. It says something like "Come on, just a little won't hurt, if you're careful. Besides, how do you really know that drinking will feel bad? It might feel wonderful instead, just like the good old days."

Does any of this sound familiar? If so, try shifting your perspective. Instead of quitting simply because drinking will feel bad, presume that drinking will always feel absolutely marvelous, but that you will nevertheless forsake that particular synthetic pleasure. By doing it this way, it won't matter if you forget all the bad stuff, which you probably will.
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
Thrifty (01-22-2012), topspin (01-21-2012)
Old 01-22-2012, 04:12 PM
  # 352 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 123
Hi everyone

Thanks TU and Watcher for your advice

I havent drunk today and have been reading the book a lot. The booze is probably not all out of my system but I dont want to wait any longer.

Reading section two has been very enlightening and helpful to grasp all the tactics of the beast. While I got the basic premise before - doing the exercises etc have really helped. The bit on Vertigo was very much how it felt when I picked up on Saturday (it's Monday here in New Zealand now).

It was if, after a bit of Beasty activity - the decision had already been made for me

I dont want to wait two weeks to make a Big Plan

Would I be acting prematurely if after making my way through all of section Two I committed to a Big Plan?? (as opposed to reading through twice as you pointed out TU?
Peta is offline  
Old 01-22-2012, 04:26 PM
  # 353 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by Peta View Post
Would I be acting prematurely if after making my way through all of section Two I committed to a Big Plan?? (as opposed to reading through twice as you pointed out TU?
No, but I do recommend reading through the book twice, simply because the Beast will inevitably chime in during your first read.
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
pangur (01-24-2012)
Old 01-22-2012, 04:46 PM
  # 354 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 123
Thanks TU

Section two is the most important part to read twice isnt it given thats where the AVRT is most thoroughly laid out?
Peta is offline  
Old 01-22-2012, 04:52 PM
  # 355 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by Peta View Post
Section two is the most important part to read twice isnt it given thats where the AVRT is most thoroughly laid out?
I would definitely read at least Part II twice, along with the transcript of an AVRT session in Part III, on pages 274-291.
Terminally Unique is offline  
Old 01-22-2012, 05:01 PM
  # 356 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by Peta View Post
The bit on Vertigo was very much how it felt when I picked up on Saturday...It was if, after a bit of Beasty activity - the decision had already been made for me
Careful, there. It sounds like your Beast has latched onto the "vertigo" section as proof that you were out of control and powerless.

I posted about "vertigo" here:

Shifting and Vertigo —

The "AVRT Matrix" is useful for the shifting exercises, and I would print it out and have it on hand while you read through the book.

AVRT Matrix —
Terminally Unique is offline  
Old 01-22-2012, 05:52 PM
  # 357 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 123
That was Vertigo - IS much more effective than I'm in Vertigo.. brings you back into control

I really like the shifting examples you give

I'm going to do that now RE some times coming up where i'm sure my beast will be excited by the idea of drinking - for example next Sat at a concert in a vineyard we are going to

My Beast will most likely be saying "hey we're in a vineyard for goodness sake, everyone's drinking, you're on holiday, you can sleep in tomorrow"

I will be saying "yes but I dont drink - having a drink would be as foreign as having a cigarette to me because I dont smoke either"

I also know that at those kinds of things,, once I start drinking there is the compulsion for more and more to keep the 'buzz' going - I get agitated when others around me drink too slowly or take too much of my share.. so much more relaxing to just not drink. and even if it isnt too bad becasue I wont drink

I've found that page 144-145 of the book - really helpful breaking down the

I
WILL
NEVER
DRINK
AGAIN

particularly the I, WIll and AGAIN part because I know now that my neocortex is the real me and that the part of me that desires booze is not teh real me or the part of me that has any ability to do anything

WILL - that it is through my intelligence and self reliance that I will abstain

and AGAIN

because no matter what my AV tries to tell me - I have drunk enough times and more so to know what will happen when I do. past behaviour is the best prediction for future behaviour. It wont be any different.
Peta is offline  
Old 01-23-2012, 11:05 AM
  # 358 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by Peta View Post
My Beast will most likely be saying "hey we're in a vineyard for goodness sake, everyone's drinking, you're on holiday, you can sleep in tomorrow"

I will be saying "yes but I dont drink - having a drink would be as foreign as having a cigarette to me because I dont smoke either"
The I/It split is the key. If you have truly decided that you will never drink again, for better or worse, then who cares what that disembodied voice in your head says? It can't do a darn thing, least of all pour a drink down your throat. The Beast can only make you struggle if you leave the option to drink again on the table, and there is a possibility of drinking again. The Big Plan of AVRT ends the inner debate — "should I or shouldn't I" — and forces this I/It split.

AVRT allows you to then partition off any thinking that draws you toward drinking through the use of pronouns in your thoughts. For example, you may decide, "I do not want to drink, but IT, my Beast, certainly does." Then, any time you get the thought, "I want to drink," you can quickly transpose this to, "IT — my Beast, my body — wants to drink. Too bad for IT." Never address your Beast, since that leads to debating and "white knuckling." Always stay in your right mind, in the "I," as in, "I will never drink/use again," and do not converse with desire.
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
Cocteau (01-23-2012), Peta (01-23-2012), Thrifty (01-24-2012), topspin (01-23-2012)
Old 01-24-2012, 05:41 AM
  # 359 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 91
The beast loves Intervention

I have been working on the separation of I and it and the separation is tougher to get during the 5-8 pm hour. It seams like it's all beast then. I still feel like I'm white knuckling. Do I just repeat my big plan and shift when I get that white knuckle feeling?

Just another realization.... I watched Intervention on TV last night. There was a woman on who is a severe alcoholic. She drinks a gallon of wine, a fifth of spirits and a six pack of beer per day. My beast loves watching those shows. It says to me "See, you're not that bad, you only drank a bottle of wine per day. She drinks morning till night, you only drank after 5pm. There are lots of people way worse than you. You might as well keep drinking"

Watching through my eyes, I think "What she's doing to her family is totally immoral, she's using everything that's ever happened to her as a reason that she's drinking instead of what it really is, just an excuse to get that deeeeeeeep feeling of getting drunk. Just like I did. It's immoral for me to drink because of the negative effects on on my family. I am no different, just because of the quantity, the results are the same."

It took reading the RR book to realize the exact reason I like the show so much. It's a reinforcement for my beast to talk me into keeping up drinking.
Thrifty is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Thrifty For This Useful Post:
Peta (01-25-2012)
Old 01-24-2012, 05:47 AM
  # 360 (permalink)  
Member
 
Watcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 36
Thrifty,

I would caution you on too much dialog. Reasoning as to why you no longer drink alcohol is fine, just not as a dialog with the AV. My response to the AV is simply, "too bad, I don't drink and I never will, go back to your corner".

That keeps the rationalizong by the AV under control. When you open discussion you are giving the beast ammunition for self doubt, don't do this. The beast is smart, (just not as smart as you) and will use every dirty mind trick available to get it's stuff. Simply don't allow it.

As for the moments of heightened activity, I always put the beast back in his cage in the corner and find something to do. Anything to get your mind off of that moment, spend time with your wife or kids, cook a meal, anything.
Watcher is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Watcher For This Useful Post:
Thrifty (01-24-2012), Tillies (01-24-2012)

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:56 AM.