Terminally Unique

Please do. If you do end up taking the in-person course, it would be interesting to get your take on that experience. I recall a few posts from people who watched the DVD documentary and took the course, some preferring the DVD set, others the course.

The comments on "AVRT: Live" from the Journal of Rational Recovery indicated that one of the main features of that set are the "captions" highlighting the Addictive Voice in the client's speech as he talks. Wouldn't you miss reading all those captions if you only listened to it?

IAmAbstinent

I am up to the big plan part and almost definitely dont think im ready for my own big plan.

I find it dogmatic and irrational.

Maybe I wont mind my beast having a little feed sometime in the future.

Currently Im finding it more useful whenever I think about taking drugs again to just remind myself how bad I felt to even things out.

White-knuckling for the win!

Dogmatically saying 'im not taking it just cos' I dont think is a good rational basis for abstinence.

oh my beast my beast!

---

The big plan has definately triggered strong beast acitvity but im not sure im ready for the final showdown with it yet.

soberlicious

Yes, I've said it several times in all 3 threads lol
At the risk of sounding like some hippie freak in heels (which I am btw) being "high on life" is what it's all about for me. BUT, the notion of separating ME from my midbrain was crucial in determining how I would go about "feasting on healthy pastimes" (even though I understand they are both parts of "me") My midbrain's idea of "healthy" does not necessarily match what works out well in my life. For instance, sex is healthy...sex with a stranger I met at a stoplight - not so much. I think each individual would have to define for themselves what are stupid urges and what are healthy pastimes...not always easy for me though because I do think life is all about fun and spontaneity...I have to make sure I'm very clear and honest about "who" is at the wheel when an idea hits me lol
The drinking/drugging one is easy though...because it's never even "an option"

FT

Harambulus,

I don't understand the wording of your post. You don't explain what you find dogmatic and irrational. Maybe it is your Beast that finds "it" dogmatic and irrational?

Why not just admit you are not ready to quit using? "White knuckling" is not part of AVRT.

If you still need "convincing" that you should quit drugs/alcohol, maybe you really don't want to stop. Stopping for any reason other than you WANT to be a non-drinker and non-drug-user is going to fail. I don't think you are there yet.


FT

IAmAbstinent

I have been having discussions in other forums on the matter and further drug use is seeming more and more redundant to me since Iver realized any appeal to change my natural state of consciousness is mainly just lazyness.

Instead I want to work the 'fun muscle' which means leanring how to enjoy things myself.

As such its better to get in the habit of having fun on my own right now.

Guess Im talking myself into the big plan 'one day at a time' - i jest

FT

The main problem with "one day at a time" is that tomorrow never comes.

IAmAbstinent

agree but this is the main challenge i think in the mtv culture.

A challenge I balked at before in favour of just popping some powder but Im ripe to take up the challenge now

soberlicious

Harambulus...you're just dancing with your beast right now. Mmmmmmm, those sweet whispers in your ear make so much sense, don't they?

I think you are ready to quit.

Recognize what's going on for what it is and "strive on with diligence".

soberlicious

Funny it's not really as big a challenge as I originally thought. If there is a party, I'm in...if there is a debate, I speak my mind...if there is a conversation, I am fully present...if there is a plane, I jump from it...if there is a pole, I dance on it.

I have said this before but in my opinion those who do not know how to get their groove on without being chemically altered lack imagination and passion.

Carpe Diem dude

harry101

But ambivalence is the essence of addiction. The rational part of us wants to quit because of the negatives effects, yet a more primal part of us wants to continue getting high.

The fact that Harambulus is on this forum and reading the RR book would indicate that he/she does genuinely want to stop and is only using against his/her better judgement.

FT

No, ambivalence is the essence of the Addictive Voice / Beast. It is when the rational self allows the AV/Beast to engage it in an "argument", as though the argument has merit, that ambivalence results.

"Genuinely wanting to stop" is just a euphemism for that argument. Until someone actively decides to become a non-drinker or non-drug-user, the desire to quit is only a thesis and not a decision.

You are describing the Addictive Voice very well. Coming onto a forum implies interest, not intent.

FT

harry101

I haven't read the RR book yet, but my understanding is that the AV/Beast is not ambivalent at all; it has one aim and that is continue to get high from drink/drugs.

Addiction is the conflict between the rational self that wants to quit and the AV/Beast that wants to get high. The end of addiction can happen when the rational self can see the AV/Beast for what it is and how it operates.

Generally, people don't come onto forums like this out of curiosity. People are here because they realize they have a drink/drug problem and they want a solution.

FT

Hi harry101,

I'm so glad you are here to find out more about AVRT.

I am not a spokesperson for AVRT, and I am certainly not an expert on it. All my posts are my experience and my opinion, so please refer to the book and to Terminally Unique on this forum, for actual answers about the method. And of course Jack Trimpey himself, as I understand there are other resources both in print and on line, as well as on broadcast media.

Having said all that, my impression about the forums is that SR does get a lot of interested people that come and go. I sincerely hope they are here seeking solutions and not just curiosity.

No, the beast is not ambivalent. The Addictive Voice, which is the mouthpiece of the Beast, argues the point for the Beast. It is when the individual engages in an argument or discussion with the AV that ambivalence can occur. To me, all these concepts are abstracts that are meaningful or not, depending on your use of analogy that makes sense to you.

Once the Big Plan is made, there is no ambivalence. If there is, then the person has not implemented the plan.

Again, please refer to the book and to Terminally Unique here for clarification, because I might just confuse you.

FT

freethinking

Why? Whats the harm in curiosity? This is all sort of a strange thing to be curious about if you don't have some problem with substance abuse in your life.

freethinking

Actually, no - the beast/av is not ambivalent...it knows exactly what it wants.

freethinking

My impression of "One Day at a Time" is that it implies taking things in the present moment, and NOT living for or worrying about tomorrow.

FT

Hi freethinking,

I've never claimed to be an AVRT expert. Far from it. I used this method, or something akin to it, before I even realized it had a name. Or maybe before it did.

I was not clear in how I answered about ambivalence, and I see my wording was why. I have no idea what "the book" says about it.

What I am trying to say is that AVRT is not about ambivalence, from my understanding of it. It is quite the opposite.

I was tring to say that the Beast is not ambivalent, for as a primal drive there is no "intention" behind it and ambivalence implies thought -- it is the Addictive Voice on behalf of the Beast that is ambivalent. The doubts and questions that arise about drinking or drugging are the Addictive Voice. The ambivalence is the addictive voice. So my sentence you quoted above should have left off the "/Beast" part. I type fast, and I don't always read back over what I wrote until it is too late.

Authoritative? Hell, no. Assertive to the point of irritation, yep. No, I am no authority on AVRT, and I try to make that disclaimer often, lest someone take me for an AVRT rep, which I am not.

FT

FT

Yes, except that the Addictive Voice might subvert "one day at a time" into, "I'll worry about it tomorrow", meaning "I'll quit drinking tomorrow."

I am a "compartmentalizer" myself, so I always take one day at a time, but I prefer to think of it as "now", because I am also a procrastinator, and my own AV is pretty good at putting things off.

FT

Did I say there was any harm in curiosity? I sure wouldn't want you reading something into my words that is not there.

Maybe I should have put "just" into italics.

I hope that people come on here looking for answers and not just out of curiosity, but who am I to say why someone should or should not read any of the threads on any of these forums.

Since I am not clairvoyant, I shall never know.

freethinking

I sent you a PM .

I think it's good if people are curious. The only real thing that makes me flat out uncomfortable on here (like I literally get this queasy feeling while reading certain posts) is when some people get way too gung ho about it in almost a manic manner.