Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion — Part 3
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Thanks Watcher, I will definitely put into practice not debating at all with the beast. I thought the above example was more shifting and not really debating. Watching the show through the beast's eyes and then through my eyes.
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Originally Posted by Thrifty 
Thanks Watcher, I will definitely put into practice not debating at all with the beast. I thought the above example was more shifting and not really debating. Watching the show through the beast's eyes and then through my eyes.
If you're talking to yourself (not the AV) this is a good practice.
Your reasons are yours alone and the AV need not know them. The only thing the beast needs to know is "I will never drink and I mean it".
As long as your abstinent and stick with your big plan, you're doing great in my opinion.
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Originally Posted by Thrifty
I have been working on the separation of I and it and the separation is tougher to get during the 5-8 pm hour. It seams like it's all beast then. I still feel like I'm white knuckling. Do I just repeat my big plan and shift when I get that white knuckle feeling?
Originally Posted by Thrifty
It took reading the RR book to realize the exact reason I like the [Intervention] show so much. It's a reinforcement for my beast to talk me into keeping up drinking.
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Originally Posted by Watcher
If you're talking to yourself (not the AV) this is a good practice.
Your reasons are yours alone and the AV need not know them. The only thing the beast needs to know is "I will never drink and I mean it".
Your reasons are yours alone and the AV need not know them. The only thing the beast needs to know is "I will never drink and I mean it".
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Hi all
Yes I definitely found my beast playing up when there was a segment on the news about the major problem of alcoholism in this country and the effects on our young people etc
AV was telling me
"who are you kidding - you have a SERIOUS problem and now you are a dry drunk - you need to get back to AA and work on a new design for living"
Worked out what was happening after a bit (when it wants booze it's more obvious - when it's not even after booze initially but rather attacts the method that is more subtle .. although it alwasy finishes a suggestion above with SO DRINK TONIGHT AND GO BACK TO AA ON MONDAY - it always wants to get the drink
I'm finishing off the book and have made a new big plan
I have to say that there is a lot of other crap going on in my life and I know being abstinent wont make alll my problems (step children, family issues etc) go away but it will put me in a far better position to deal with them
Yes I definitely found my beast playing up when there was a segment on the news about the major problem of alcoholism in this country and the effects on our young people etc
AV was telling me
"who are you kidding - you have a SERIOUS problem and now you are a dry drunk - you need to get back to AA and work on a new design for living"
Worked out what was happening after a bit (when it wants booze it's more obvious - when it's not even after booze initially but rather attacts the method that is more subtle .. although it alwasy finishes a suggestion above with SO DRINK TONIGHT AND GO BACK TO AA ON MONDAY - it always wants to get the drink
I'm finishing off the book and have made a new big plan
I have to say that there is a lot of other crap going on in my life and I know being abstinent wont make alll my problems (step children, family issues etc) go away but it will put me in a far better position to deal with them
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Peta,
There are a lot of ideas floating around in recovery circles (eg, "relapse is a part of recovery") that implicitly support continued self-intoxication, and your Beast has a keen eye for such ideas. Your Addictive Voice will probably be pumping many of these ideas back at you over the weeks and months to come. Just remember the definition of the Addictive Voice — "any thinking that supports any possible future use of alcohol, ever" — and recognize it for what it is.
Such ideas will become progressively easier to recognize as AV, to the point where eventually they will stand out like a blinking neon sign. If you want to get some really good AVRT practice, read the posts in the newcomer's section, and filter what people write through the definition of the Addictive Voice. It won't take you very long to start to recognize the AV in other people's posts. I usually get more AVRT practice on here in a half hour than I would in a month otherwise.
There are a lot of ideas floating around in recovery circles (eg, "relapse is a part of recovery") that implicitly support continued self-intoxication, and your Beast has a keen eye for such ideas. Your Addictive Voice will probably be pumping many of these ideas back at you over the weeks and months to come. Just remember the definition of the Addictive Voice — "any thinking that supports any possible future use of alcohol, ever" — and recognize it for what it is.
Such ideas will become progressively easier to recognize as AV, to the point where eventually they will stand out like a blinking neon sign. If you want to get some really good AVRT practice, read the posts in the newcomer's section, and filter what people write through the definition of the Addictive Voice. It won't take you very long to start to recognize the AV in other people's posts. I usually get more AVRT practice on here in a half hour than I would in a month otherwise.
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Some questions my Beast didn't want me to know the one word answers to:
Can you be certain that you are (or were) addicted?
Who else can be certain that you are (or were) addicted?
Can you lie to yourself?
How many times can you make The Big Plan?
Can you rescind The Big Plan?
Is The Big Plan an oddity of human choice?
Does swearing at your Beast shut it up faster, longer, better?
Can you be certain that you are (or were) addicted?
Who else can be certain that you are (or were) addicted?
Can you lie to yourself?
How many times can you make The Big Plan?
Can you rescind The Big Plan?
Is The Big Plan an oddity of human choice?
Does swearing at your Beast shut it up faster, longer, better?
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Thanks TU
I think that's a good idea
I'm feeling very emotinal is that the beast (dying) or is it me??
I havent drunk but i'm struggling - it's struggling I should say
I keep recognizing it but it's relentless and then I feel like crying and I just feel so sad but perhaps it's the thing feeling sad
I'm nervous becasue I'm not feeling like this is totally effortless like it's meant to be??? It does feel like i'm white knuckling it because I"m obviiously considering the AV's arguments and trying to discount them rather than just observing and not absorbing them
Feel better after coming on here thanks
I think that's a good idea
I'm feeling very emotinal is that the beast (dying) or is it me??
I havent drunk but i'm struggling - it's struggling I should say
I keep recognizing it but it's relentless and then I feel like crying and I just feel so sad but perhaps it's the thing feeling sad
I'm nervous becasue I'm not feeling like this is totally effortless like it's meant to be??? It does feel like i'm white knuckling it because I"m obviiously considering the AV's arguments and trying to discount them rather than just observing and not absorbing them
Feel better after coming on here thanks
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Peta, I'm afraid I have no response to your question as I feel the exact same way. I just wanted to thank you for posting since what you said put what I have been feeling into words. I too feel a constant nagging and I'm constantly noticing the beast talking to me. The sadness is there too.
I am looking forward to anybody's insights to your post.
Thanks
I am looking forward to anybody's insights to your post.
Thanks
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Originally Posted by Peta
I'm feeling very emotinal is that the beast (dying) or is it me??
I havent drunk but i'm struggling - it's struggling I should say
I keep recognizing it but it's relentless and then I feel like crying and I just feel so sad but perhaps it's the thing feeling sad
I havent drunk but i'm struggling - it's struggling I should say
I keep recognizing it but it's relentless and then I feel like crying and I just feel so sad but perhaps it's the thing feeling sad
You can use the AVRT® Matrix to practice shifting back and forth between these two points of view. The Upper Right cell (
) represents the certainty principle of the Big Plan, which lets you know that you won't be creating any more problems for yourself from drinking. The Lower Right cell () is the infamous dry drunk, but through the lens of AVRT, we can see that the dry drunk is just the Beast feeling deprived. While the death of the Beast can be a noisy affair, like a newly caged animal, it will eventually get used to captivity and settle down.
NOTE: The AVRT® Matrix is copyrighted material, which may not be reproduced without explicit permission of Rational Recovery Systems, Inc.
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Originally Posted by Thrifty
I too feel a constant nagging and I'm constantly noticing the beast talking to me. The sadness is there too.
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For me, AVRT is an extremely pure and ironclad polarization technique.
It is about an extremely self-conscious series of physical actions that took place 2 1/2 inches from my eyes, and 1 1/2 inches from my nose, and required full muscle coordination of at least one arm down to my thumb and a finger. That's just the half of it. Then I had to decide to open my mouth and either swallow or inhale.
And, it is about very specific substances that I can identify with utter simplicity.
I haven't been able to come up with an analogy in major life experiences that has the precision that is possible when using AVRT.
With all that said, regarding the evolution of my emotional response to using AVRT, the analogy I feel that fit best for my quitting alcohol and pot is when someone very old and dear to me who has become severely mentally incapacitated by their age finally dies. Righteous, good, yet sad, and full of grief.
My Big Plan forced the absolute death of a strongly habituated physical experience, I know I can't rescind it, I know I had never "quit" this way before, and I know I cannot lie to myself.
My Beast was persistent. It took the harmless experience of drinking dreams and was able to impose that dream anxiety of having failed at abstinence, and brought it into the background of my conscious emotional structure. For a period of time, when the thought of drinking would pop into my mind, for 2 to 5 seconds I felt an initial anxiety of having a real, recent history of struggle and failure; and I actually had to jar my consciousness back to the truth - that, of course, I had not failed at my Big Plan.
My Beast was taking the memories of the real struggle and ambivalence I felt before I finally quit and was trying to superimpose them into my life after my Big Plan - Hah! - not a chance. It was truly one of those "What on earth is it going to come up with next!" moments, and thereafter "Wow, there it is again. What a crock!" It had tried to sneak up on me, but every time I felt very competent very quickly.
It is about an extremely self-conscious series of physical actions that took place 2 1/2 inches from my eyes, and 1 1/2 inches from my nose, and required full muscle coordination of at least one arm down to my thumb and a finger. That's just the half of it. Then I had to decide to open my mouth and either swallow or inhale.
And, it is about very specific substances that I can identify with utter simplicity.
I haven't been able to come up with an analogy in major life experiences that has the precision that is possible when using AVRT.
With all that said, regarding the evolution of my emotional response to using AVRT, the analogy I feel that fit best for my quitting alcohol and pot is when someone very old and dear to me who has become severely mentally incapacitated by their age finally dies. Righteous, good, yet sad, and full of grief.
My Big Plan forced the absolute death of a strongly habituated physical experience, I know I can't rescind it, I know I had never "quit" this way before, and I know I cannot lie to myself.
My Beast was persistent. It took the harmless experience of drinking dreams and was able to impose that dream anxiety of having failed at abstinence, and brought it into the background of my conscious emotional structure. For a period of time, when the thought of drinking would pop into my mind, for 2 to 5 seconds I felt an initial anxiety of having a real, recent history of struggle and failure; and I actually had to jar my consciousness back to the truth - that, of course, I had not failed at my Big Plan.
My Beast was taking the memories of the real struggle and ambivalence I felt before I finally quit and was trying to superimpose them into my life after my Big Plan - Hah! - not a chance. It was truly one of those "What on earth is it going to come up with next!" moments, and thereafter "Wow, there it is again. What a crock!" It had tried to sneak up on me, but every time I felt very competent very quickly.
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Knowing, not just hoping, that you are recovered.
This "AVRT Tip" from the Journal of Rational Recovery expands on the "static time" idea in AVRT, which is covered in the book "Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction," on pages 138-141.
Static Time
This concept was introduced in Rational Recovery: The New Cure, but when coupled with the probability game, it takes on greater meaning. Briefly, we know that the Beast, an appetite for toxic pleasure originating in the midbrain, is timeless. The concept of time is neocortical, i.e., known only to you, but the Beast has little difficulty exploiting ideas it cannot conceive. The basic strategy of the Beast is premised on the idea, “Then is different from now.” For example , when you attempt to formulate a Big Plan for lifetime abstinence, it will echo, “Yes, you may say that now, but I’ll get you sooner or later (then).” Falling into its trap, you may feel insecure, wondering if this may be so, that at some time in the future, when conditions are much different, you may change your mind and drink or use.
Probabilities
At this juncture, you may feel your confidence level rising and falling, say on a scale of 0% to 100% confidence that you will never drink again. Your Beast will suggest that you pick a number, any number, between zero and a hundred to represent how confident you are that you will remain perfectly abstinent for the rest of your life. Let’s say you rate your confidence at 90%. “Fine, you may think,” that’s a lot better than feeling hopeless, as I did last week, when I was hopeless about salvaging my life from addiction.” You may hope that as time goes by, and as you successfully practice AVRT, your confidence will grow, and your confidence will keep rising and eventually you will reach 100% confidence. But this is only your Beast, playing a game with you.
The game is similar to roulette, in which your number may come up against heavy odds. The Beast accepts your concept of spacial time as if the calendar is the betting board. It places its bets on now (akin to the green 0’s, if you are familiar), plus other squares representing those special times when you would find drinking irresistible and would change your mind, e.g., New Year‘s Eve, while in the back country, when a loved one dies, weddings, celebrations, times of boredom or misery, etc. It is hoping that its number comes up, and that you will lose. In this probabilities game, the Beast has the odds, because the game is never over. When you rate your confidence at, say, 90%, you may as well erase the “9” and call that the new zero point, with the same ten intervals as before. As long as any chance of drinking exists, a plan to drink exists in the present moment, and the Beast is placated. It will hardly stir as you play the high stakes betting game, each waiting for the pea to fall on some future date. You stand by, only hoping that your Beast’s number won’t come up.
In AVRT, the practice of static time allows you to know that you will not drink under different circumstances. Since there is no time, but only the present moment throughout life, there is no statistical game board for speculating on the next drink. Since there is only one eternal moment, the now in which everything exists and occurs, there is no difference between any imaginary “then“ and now. When this concept of static time is appreciated, the Beast has been met on its own turf, and it suddenly becomes easy to say, with perfect, 100% confidence, “I know that I will never drink in the present moment, because it takes no effort to do nothing right now.”
___________
Excerpted from The Journal of Rational Recovery,
Vol. 9, Iss. 4, March-April, 1997, Page 26
Copyright © Rational Recovery Systems, Inc.
All Rights Reserved
This concept was introduced in Rational Recovery: The New Cure, but when coupled with the probability game, it takes on greater meaning. Briefly, we know that the Beast, an appetite for toxic pleasure originating in the midbrain, is timeless. The concept of time is neocortical, i.e., known only to you, but the Beast has little difficulty exploiting ideas it cannot conceive. The basic strategy of the Beast is premised on the idea, “Then is different from now.” For example , when you attempt to formulate a Big Plan for lifetime abstinence, it will echo, “Yes, you may say that now, but I’ll get you sooner or later (then).” Falling into its trap, you may feel insecure, wondering if this may be so, that at some time in the future, when conditions are much different, you may change your mind and drink or use.
Probabilities
At this juncture, you may feel your confidence level rising and falling, say on a scale of 0% to 100% confidence that you will never drink again. Your Beast will suggest that you pick a number, any number, between zero and a hundred to represent how confident you are that you will remain perfectly abstinent for the rest of your life. Let’s say you rate your confidence at 90%. “Fine, you may think,” that’s a lot better than feeling hopeless, as I did last week, when I was hopeless about salvaging my life from addiction.” You may hope that as time goes by, and as you successfully practice AVRT, your confidence will grow, and your confidence will keep rising and eventually you will reach 100% confidence. But this is only your Beast, playing a game with you.
The game is similar to roulette, in which your number may come up against heavy odds. The Beast accepts your concept of spacial time as if the calendar is the betting board. It places its bets on now (akin to the green 0’s, if you are familiar), plus other squares representing those special times when you would find drinking irresistible and would change your mind, e.g., New Year‘s Eve, while in the back country, when a loved one dies, weddings, celebrations, times of boredom or misery, etc. It is hoping that its number comes up, and that you will lose. In this probabilities game, the Beast has the odds, because the game is never over. When you rate your confidence at, say, 90%, you may as well erase the “9” and call that the new zero point, with the same ten intervals as before. As long as any chance of drinking exists, a plan to drink exists in the present moment, and the Beast is placated. It will hardly stir as you play the high stakes betting game, each waiting for the pea to fall on some future date. You stand by, only hoping that your Beast’s number won’t come up.
In AVRT, the practice of static time allows you to know that you will not drink under different circumstances. Since there is no time, but only the present moment throughout life, there is no statistical game board for speculating on the next drink. Since there is only one eternal moment, the now in which everything exists and occurs, there is no difference between any imaginary “then“ and now. When this concept of static time is appreciated, the Beast has been met on its own turf, and it suddenly becomes easy to say, with perfect, 100% confidence, “I know that I will never drink in the present moment, because it takes no effort to do nothing right now.”
___________
Excerpted from The Journal of Rational Recovery,
Vol. 9, Iss. 4, March-April, 1997, Page 26
Copyright © Rational Recovery Systems, Inc.
All Rights Reserved
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It's amazing. Three days of working on what I have learned about AVRT and I already feel better about not drinking than 2.5 months of another way. Before, I was always questioning if X was the right thing to do for my sobriety. Now that I have made a pact with myself that I will never drink again alot of challenges I had before just disappear. I still have some residual guilt left over from another program but I have realized that is just my "beast" talking.
I have also started to try and change where my beast's voice comes from and move it from in my head to down into my chest. I feel like it will help me look at the beast as a more gut feeling than a rational and wise thought. I know people do this kind of thing for anger management etc.
I have also started to try and change where my beast's voice comes from and move it from in my head to down into my chest. I feel like it will help me look at the beast as a more gut feeling than a rational and wise thought. I know people do this kind of thing for anger management etc.
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Originally Posted by UofI2008
It's amazing. Three days of working on what I have learned about AVRT and I already feel better about not drinking than 2.5 months of another way. Before, I was always questioning if X was the right thing to do for my sobriety. Now that I have made a pact with myself that I will never drink again a lot of challenges I had before just disappear.
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It is pretty amazing. AVRT really matches my personality and who I am as well. It was really hard for me to swallow the fact that I had to have someone else guide me for the rest of my life. I have never done that in my business and personal life. Frankly, most of the people I was supposed to follow weren't exactly shining examples of what I wanted to be in life either.
I don't want to sound like I'm opposed to help either. It's quite the contrary. I just wanted to figure out what worked, and well, the other program just didn't fit. I'm glad I had TU and others here that quit on their own to guide me on my own path. For that, I am eternally grateful.
I don't want to sound like I'm opposed to help either. It's quite the contrary. I just wanted to figure out what worked, and well, the other program just didn't fit. I'm glad I had TU and others here that quit on their own to guide me on my own path. For that, I am eternally grateful.
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I also agree with alot of people on here about identifying as non-drinkers. Some of my most "AHA" moments in the past few months have been when I just tell people I don't drink. To me there is something therapeutic and helpful when I am offered a drink and say, "No I don't drink". It isn't something I just scream from the mountain tops, but I try to be candid because I am now a non-drinker.
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I am sold on AVRT. I hated going to AA meetings- dreaded them. I dont buy everything Jack says in his book, but I believe in the core concepts. I have made my mind- not drinking again- not changing mind. 75 days and counting.
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