lostbutterfly

I picture the part of my brain the urges are coming from and see it as separate to the more advanced 'me' brain. So its a part of me, just there, but doesn't know what's best for me as far as drugs and alcohol are concerned.

soberlicious

Mine is just a distorted image of me I guess. I am not a believer in the supernatural so images of devils and so forth don't much for me lol. I view my "beast" as more pathetic and laughable than I do scary. Like lostbutterfly said, I acknowledge that part of me, but it's just not the part in charge of things.

DrivenHeart85

Yeah, I tried to assign an image but it just didn't work for me. I just like to see things exactly as they are so for me, no image works.

I've been getting a kick out of learning about my mind the past couple months. Between Tolle and AVRT I'm starting to realize the mind can be quite unhelpful if you don't keep it in check.

I've always felt like of victim of my thoughts and emotions; like they are me and they just have to be true. Now, it seems like a lot of the thoughts and emotions are just nothing really. Just things to fill up space. Somewhere in all of these thoughts is your higher conscious. It's up to your higher conscious, you, to sort through all the crap that wanders into your mind and decide what is truth or not. I think this is why people find peace when they shut off their thoughts; because to a certain extent they are excessive, useless even and can evolve into problems.

I remember all sorts of things I've done in life due to my thoughts starting to connect to each other and it created a snow ball effect until they became beliefs and those beliefs became actions...all spawning from thoughts that weren't kept in check. Eating disorders, depression, self-mutilation, paranoia's. I think a lot of these came to be because my higher conscious, I, wasn't paying attention to what was going on in my mind, just accepting these thoughts and emotions as truth and then things got out of balance.

Parts of our mind can run rampant...it's like if your higher conscious isn't "conscious" of what's going on in your mind, then it's essentially like an unorganized government. It's like your higher conscious is the "U.N." of all of your thoughts and if it's always off playing golf or what have you, thoughts will run rampant...there is no judge around to determine what is truth or not.

And emotions have always been a big thing for me too...it's gotten better with age but I've always taken emotions to be "lasting truth" when really, that's the opposite of what they are. Our feelings can be lasting and true, but something like anger or fear can very much be on false pretenses and leave our consciousness just as soon as they came in. Feelings of depression would always get me because I believed they were fact and that I would ALWAYS feel depressed but that's not true either. It's important that we never believe our feelings unless our higher conscious finds them to be true.

So anyway, for me, AVRT is a little like bringing your higher conscious back out of the chaos of your mind and putting it back on guard where it needs to be and saying, "My drinking is no longer acceptable...go seek out and dissolve all thoughts and feelings related to drinking."

Thrifty

Driven Heart, I too am starting to read a lot of Tolle I plan to read more with a mind toward the AV.

I just got my copy of the RR book yesterday. I read a some yesterday and some today and am up to page 35. I was sober yesterday evening(a first in a few weeks) and talked back to my addictive voice quite a few times. Today is another matter, it seems like the more I read, the more the AV keeps trying to chime in. It's really bothersome. It's only noon and I'm afraid. I know it's just my addictive voice screaming at me probably realizing something new is up, not just the usual "I won't drink today", but knowing I'll give into it by the evening.

To be honest, I haven't even gotten to the big plan part of the book and haven't made one. I can however say "I never drink now", which seems to be more like living in the present moment. For some reason this doesn't irritate the AV as much as "I will never drink and I will never change my mind"

I guess I would like to hear from people about the early stages of the process. Was AVRT a moment of clarity or was it a short process that you had to practice for a little while? I think the only way that it would work is if you are 100 percent certain of your big plan and can make a guarantee of never drinking. Is there still hope for it working for someone like me , at the beginning stages who is not at the big plan yet? Or is simply hoping for the process to have a learning curve the AV saying "Phew, I can stall her for a little while and in the meantime I'll keep working on her to give up on this AVRT thing"?

Any advice would be really welcome. In the meantime, I will continue reading. Thanks all.

soberlicious

In psychology this is called an "extinction burst" or "response burst". It is common and predictable whenever a behavior is being extinguished. When the reinforcer that is normally paired with a behavior is removed, a period of frenzied activity to get the desired reinforcer is often observed. I have dealt with this in relation to my addiction and also in relation to my son's autism. In working to modify some of his inappropriate behaviors, I often observed this "resonse burst" and it was almost unbearable at times. This is a critical time because often people just give up...thinking "see, this just isn't going to work." The behavior gets reinforced again, often becoming more deeply imbedded. However, if one can "hold out" through the burst, when it passes the behavior decreases and is eventually extinguished. Just knowing what it is makes it easier to "hold out" through that period, in my opinion. Sort of the old "it gets worse before it gets better" axiom.

FT

Hi Thrifty,

When I quit drinking, either AVRT wasn't around yet or I just didn't know about it (20+years ago). I don't know exactly how many years I drank, but it had to be close to 20. During the latter 10 years of it, I had made mulitple attempts to be a "normal" drinker, and I few times I managed to pause my drinking. Like for two extended periods of time during pregnancy, I didn't drink at all. Since it wasn't all that hard for me to do that, I figured I must not be a "problem drinker".

However, the final few years, I really had a tough time of it. Eventually, I decided I was NEVER going to be a non-drinker, so I just set about making sure I knew where to get alcohol and just didn't go places that didn't have it. It wasn't long before I realized that alcohol was running my life and not me. I didn't like it.

After a BUNCH of failed attempts to quit, which only seemed to drive up my quantity of drinking every day (lots of "last chances" to drink, ya know?), the LAST time I tried to do it, it took. I guess by then, I really had had enough. I actually bought alcohol that day (my story is elsewhere here, the "cold duck method"), but I decided I was not going to drink it. After a few days of NOT drinking the bottle I brought home, I began to consider myself a "non-drinker".

I realized later on, looking back at that, that what "the difference" was between that time and all others was my self identification as a "non-drinker". Once I began to consider myself in that way, everything change. Every decision not to drink was no longer a question or a challenge, or a deprivation. I was just a non-drinker. No questions. No arguments. Period. End of story.

Much later, only recently, I discovered AVRT and realized that was exactly what I had been doing years ago. In 2010, I used my version of AVRT once again to quit opiates. I foolishly did not recognize opiate addiction in myself during rapidly escalating osteoarthritis, torn meniscal ligaments in both knees, and finally double total knee replacements. Once again, I figured I was going to be a lifelong opiate user, just like I had once thought I would just always be a drinker. Once gain, I realized the drug was running my life. I liked it no better in 2010 than I did with alcohol a long time back.

So, I quit. I decided (after MANY attempts at tapering off, which drove up my use much like alcohol once did), hell with this --- I am a non-opiate user, just like I am a non-drinker. No questions. No arguments. Period. End of Story. Again.

I must say that for me, opiates were more difficult to kick than alcohol was, but both times it was not easy. But my fall-back position as a non-user of either opiates or alcohol made every decision a non-decision.

Maybe you aren't there yet, and maybe you are. The whole point of something like AVRT is the finality of the decision. You are either a drinker or you aren't.

I chose to be a non-drinker a long time ago, and eventually it "takes". Don't beat yourself up if you haven't made the decision yet. But do take it seriously when and if yo do make that decision, and really mean what you say.

The Addictive Voice doesn't have to be "annoying". Don't give it more power than it deserves. It is a normal shouting out of your basal urges that are not used to being ignored, so of course they will sound loud. They are only thoughts and do not need to be acted upon. That part is up to YOU. The less you fight with your own thoughts, the quieter they become. Mine are still there, too. But they are only noise, and I can handle noise here and there.

Good luck. Read that book. Get a good grasp of it. Make sure that when you make "the decision" that you mean it. I don't know if reading about it ahead of doing it would have made me act sooner than I did. Maybe. I just know that it is a very powerful thing, our ego. And once I self-identified as a non-drinker, and non-opiate user, I protect my self identity like my life depends on it. And I think it does.

FT

DrivenHeart85

Hey Thrifty,

I didn't accept the Big Plan at first...thinking that it was Trimpey's "confidence trick" or something, but as I went on I started to realize that my anxiety over never drinking again for the rest of my life was just AV. It was a couple weeks before I decided to accept it. So I suppose thinking that you might end up drinking if you don't have a Big Plan is AV. I'd say don't fret it for now, just be aware of how your AV pops up in your mind.

DrivenHeart85

TU posted this before and I always ignored it at first but it really helps. What got me a lot was that the AV can present itself in the form of feelings and also the other one that I needed to have hammered home was that any lack of confidence in the ability to abstain is AV.

"Originally Posted by The Art of AVRT®, Pages 124-125

Functions of the Addictive Voice
Conceal its existence by using the pronoun, "I."
Conceal addiction's primal, pleasure motive.
Justify continued self-intoxication.
Deny the moral dimension of self-intoxication.
Minimize the bad effects of self-intoxication.
Maximize, romanticize positive effects.
Character assassination, global — self and others.
Dignify use of the substance; absolve guilt, responsibility.
Undermine confidence to abstain.
Build socal tolerance for self-intoxication.
Siege, wear you down.
Identify opposition, narcs, moralists as enemies.
Create a support network of other addicted people to act as a safe harbor, provide primary social needs, and to legitimize addiction.
Guarantee perpetual supply of the substance and opportunities to use it.
Manipulate all situations to serve itself.
Organize all thoughts, values, and policies in its own interests.
Emulation of human affairs, of human roles, of human attitudes, of mature human functioning.
Excerpted from "The Art of AVRT®" by Jack Trimpey
Copyright © 2010 by Jack Trimpey
All Rights Reserved"

DrivenHeart85

Well, I think that was the list anyway. I hate going back through old threads because I was such a wreck when I got here...seemed my posts were happy, angry, sad, but never level headed and consistent. I don't suggest my route to acceptance to anyone out there. lol And my emotional/mental life today is like heaven compared to what it was then.

Thrifty

Thanks for all of the great responses, all very helpful. By the way, soberlicious, I too have an autistic son and I know all that you are going through. I think I used his autism as a poor me exuse to keep drinking all these years. In reality, it's an even bigger reason to stay healthy, functional and not in a fog on a nightly basis.

The AV has subsided a great deal since this morning. Although I realize that that's not really the point. I think the point is that if the voice starts up, notice it as what it is , don't react to it and move on. Even if the beast speaks to you 10 times an hour or more, just don't respond to it 10 times. It's not about thinking the method is not working because the voice is speaking to you, it's about how you react to it. I think I have to expect the AV to speak to me quite a bit right now and trust my higher conscious.

DrivenHeart85

Yes, I think there is a lot to not reacting to it. I've begun to personally call reacting to the AV as, "assigning it power". You're the only one that can give that voice power and your reaction to those thoughts will do that. It's just like a little kid whining for a toy that he really wants. If you keep telling the kid "no", he will know he has gained a leg up on you because you've entered into debate with him and he could still sway the debate his way. If you keep ignoring the kid, then he knows his pleas are useless...because he can't even get a "no" out of you now! lol

But I'd like to note that I didn't get to this point right away...I did a lot of negating with it at first and that made things tough.

soberlicious

yep yep...I hear ya. It's a pretty handy excuse. The "autism card" I like to call it, and I've been known to play it. My son is 14 now. Don't know what services are like in your area. Florida is really not known for it's exemplary services in the disabled community.
Feel free to PM me anytime.

From your thoughts in your second paragraph it sounds like these techniques are making sense to you and working for you. I am so happy you are finding some relief.

Terminally Unique

This is to be expected. The Beast is a survival drive, albeit a twisted one, and it can sense what you are feeling. AVRT is a potential death sentence for the Beast, so you can bet that it will chime in and try to actively prevent you from taking it all in. What self-respecting Beast worth its salt wouldn't?

Just read the book, then read through this thread from the beginning, and then read the book again, paying close attention to the exercises in the book. Spend some time on the exercises, don't just plow through them. You should be able to get up to speed on AVRT fairly quickly that way.

Thrifty

I thought I'd post if I got an insight or a lightbulb moment while reading the book. I figure it will help me when rereading this thread. So please bear with me if these posts come frequently at first. In my last post I said my hang up was in committing 100 percent to making a big plan and thanks to drivenheart (adorable kitty picture BTW) and reading 3 more pages of the book I think I can get what's going on.

Not committing to a big plan is also the voice and not me. The more you state the big plan "I will never drink and I will never change my mind", the more the beast will say "you just can't do that" . I thought I was getting pretty good at recognizing the voice, I just didn't think to apply it to the big plan, until just now.

I thought I was doomed to fail because "I" couldn't guarantee that I would never drink again..... "it" doesn't want me to ever say that or think that way . It's the worst possible thing "it" can possibly hear, so it pulls no punches. "It" even tries to make me think "I" am the one coming up with the doubt and not "it".

soberlicious

Thrifty...right on, right on...

FT

Hey Thrifty!

Excellent! You are recognizing that the "I can't" statements are your Addictive Voice and not the rationally functional "YOU".

Terminally Unique

You're catching on quickly. When you make your Big Plan, set your confidence level arbitrarily at 100% and recognize all self-doubt as the Addictive Voice itself. It's just the Beast squawking; nothing more, nothing less.

Thrifty

I have gotten further in the book and am in total agreement when the author says that there are basically 3 influences: the real me, the AV and society. And, society supports the AV. I will also be very aware of that from now on. I was just thinking about all the times not only does the AV tell you that you're bored, stressed, anxious, are celebrating so you deserve a drink..... So do your friends and advertising. Other than on this website, everyone around me seems to speak the same beast language.

DrivenHeart85

That's for sure Thrifty! I live in the land of drunks (northern Wisconsin). I just told an old acquaintance that I don't drink anymore and he said, "What do you do on your weekends then?" Really? You stop drinking and suddenly what to do on weekends is the 8th wonder of the world? lol Kinda humorous really and Allen Carr's book has helped me out with rising above the constant pounding waves of "Have a drink!" in this region. I think alcohol dependence and abuse is so common around here that people never even think to challenge their own drinking habits because right off the bat they can name like 15 other people that drink the same way as them, if not worse. lol

Also since I work in marketing/graphic design I like to analyze what the alcohol companies put out there as far as advertising and packaging graphics. I like to laugh at Bud Light's slogans, "Always Worth It", "A Sure Sign of a Good Time". Many Beasts in the marketing business.

FT

Hell with the weekends, I didn't even know how to sit in a chair in the evenings when I first quit drinking. What do you do with your hands without a drink in one of them? What about standing and talking to someone, do you fold your arms, how awkward!

Ha!

I still remember those early feelings.

Yet valid, so I take those kinds of questions in all seriousness. I have never smoked, so imagine it is even worse for ex-smokers.

Yes, DrivenHeart85, the marketing business is ALL about the Beast. Marketers use ALL our senses to entice the Beast into causing impulse buys. Care to SUPER-size that? How about a hot apple pie with that coffee? Lordy, don't get me started.

Thanks for the reminder, though.

FT