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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 3

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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 3

Old 02-19-2012, 07:32 PM
  # 481 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot View Post
My reading up on RR:TNC continues. Fascinating stuff. I'm beginning to appreciate an inner awareness of AVRT in action as I prod the Beast, lol.
I'm glad you are enjoying it. You'll probably find that AVRT will grow on its own as you use it, to the point where the AV will stick out like a sore thumb. Eventually, that inner awareness will extend outwardly to those around you, and you'll be able to notice other people's AV just as effortlessly as your own. I have to constantly resist the urge to 'quote' posts on this forum and highlight the AV embedded in the text.

Originally Posted by RobbyRobot View Post
There is a special kind of sureness and purpose experienced in slamming the Beast down and kicking it to the curb. It feels righteous
Indeed. People unfamiliar with how this 'works' assume that I must be constantly struggling against the Beast, but if anything, I'm kicking its ass and enjoying it. AVRT is like a magic sledgehammer that turns Beasts into anvils.
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Old 02-19-2012, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
........, and you'll be able to notice other people's AV just as effortlessly as your own. I have to constantly resist the urge to 'quote' posts on this forum and highlight the AV embedded in the text.

.
Ever since you suggested this earlier, ......It's been a helpful excersize. Mentally highlighting the AV anyway.

On a side note, after reading some of Mr. Trimpey's blogs tonight, I'm esp grateful to have gotten introduced to AVRT from this thread.

I can imagine myself having gotten a little sidetracked with parts of his worldview; .....initially.
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by topspin View Post
....It's been a helpful exercise. Mentally highlighting the AV [in other people's posts] anyway.
It certainly is very good practice. There's so much AV flying around the forums that your AVRT skills will sharpen considerably.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:18 AM
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What advice could be given to one that has made many Big Plans, perhaps all of them half-hearted, and then broken it? Each time the Beast would appear to be in a stronger position:

Go ahead, make a Big Plan, it won't last, like the others. This is too easy.
Once a Big Plan has been broken the Beast can easily undermine it because it has a reply for whenever you tell it you will not change your mind.
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:32 AM
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At the end of RR:TNC, Chapter 13, titled Lapses, Relapses, and Other Nonsense on p. 210, it reads -
"If you have made a Big Plan, try getting out of it and discover the meaning of the word never.
Tomorrow, your Beast will be busy at work, trying to salvage a foothold in your thinking. Will you be ready? I bet you will be."
I think that with a detailed backtracking of a person's thoughts from the point of pouring alcohol into his/her mouth and swallowing, a person can logically expose and understand more clearly how he/she had not really made a Big Plan in the first place.

To point out the irrational stubbornness of my Big Plan, I am perfectly aware of, and very comfortable with, the idea that if discoveries were made in the future that allowed anyone to drink alcohol and not get drunk, I would still not drink - I could not drink. It doesn't even matter anymore why I quit.

In the movie North by Northwest, Cary Grant is forced to drink at gunpoint. I do not consider such an ingestion of alcohol to violate a Big Plan. That said, my Beast would love that to happen to me. Yes, my AV says it's worth risking getting shot to death. It says, just take the drink, and everything will work out OK.

Early on, I actually spent time with serious shifting on this sort of total improbability. Today the shifting is completely lopsided in my favor. I have to shine a light in a dark corner of my past to even recognize my AV anymore. It almost feels like a form of rhetoric, today.
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by kanamit View Post
What advice could be given to one that has made many Big Plans, perhaps all of them half-hearted, and then broken it?
As GerardTwine pointed out, by definition, a Big Plan is irreversible, so did you really make a Big Plan? Your Beast, of course, will certainly try to use any previous reversals of intent as 'evidence' of your incompetence. This is a fallacy, of course, since you are ultimately free to do whatever you want to do. There are two ways of looking at things. You may have 'failed' at staying abstinent, but you certainly succeeded at drinking, which is what you wanted to do at that particular moment.

See "Mr. Beast, Esq." on page 172 of RR:TNC.
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Old 02-20-2012, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by kanamit View Post
What advice could be given to one that has made many Big Plans, perhaps all of them half-hearted, and then broken it? Each time the Beast would appear to be in a stronger position:
"Go ahead, make a Big Plan, it won't last, like the others. This is too easy."
Another thought on this, prompted by RobbyRobot's response in a different thread...

You can think of the Big Plan like a marriage vow it is for better, or for worse. Obviously, some people have no qualms about getting divorced, but they do often re-marry. However, can you imagine the wedding officiant saying the following during your second wedding ceremony?

Officiant: "Kanamit, do you take [Name] to be your wedded wife to live together in marriage. Do you promise to love, comfort, honor and keep her For better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health. And forsaking all others, be faithful only to her so long as you both shall live?"

Kanamit: I do.

Officiant: You've said that before !

This is essentially the same stunt the Beast will try to pull. It's nonsense. Pure AV.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:56 PM
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Thanks.

I only raised it because in the early days I was making Big Plans almost daily (literally) just like I did "Final Drinks" when I was reading Allen Carr.

I can't really remember how I got round it but thankfully I did.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:38 AM
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I've noticed my beast has 'switched tactics' now...

My beast's previous main justification was the addicto-depressive state of 'ain't it awful, we must have something to relieve this pain before we kill ourselves!'

Now the beast seems to have got the message I won't fall for that one any more I've noticed it trying to change strategy to 'hey, let's wait till our life is really in order then we can AFFORD to have a little splashing out here and there'.

If I hear the beast piping up in this manner I quickly recite my mantra out loud 'i will never take drugs again and I will never change my mind' x3 which causes the beast to quiet down.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:43 AM
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IamA,

The Beast has an uncanny ability to argue both sides of all arguments. This is why the Big Plan has to be for better or for worse, or it won't stick. If it helps, you might want to actually add that in (ie, "I will never drink/use again, for better or for worse").
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:31 AM
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I'm in. 4 months sober today and just finished reading rational recovery. I got sober going to AA and am thankful for the support I received. But the techniques that avrt teaches is just so simple and makes so much sense to me, I always thought there was 2 of me when it came to drinking, one of me saying yes Drink and one saying no don't. I learned a bit about the monster from Allan Carr when I gave up smoking, but I didn't know how to control the alcohol beast. So as of today I NEVER DRINK ALCOHOL AND I WILL NEVER CHANGE MY MIND FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE. It feels amazing to have my power back and not have to worry about relapsing on a daily bases.
Today I could feel my beast kick and squirm when my mates were going out to get smashed tonight, but now I know it's just my Beast and I don't have to worry that I was thinking about drinking and ring a sponsor and do the steps and pray and meditate and go and find an alcoholic to work on ect , I just told the beast my big plan and It all went quiet. I found out about avrt from all of you here at sr so I just wanted to say Thank you.
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by SoberDan View Post
It feels amazing to have my power back and not have to worry about relapsing on a daily bases.
Congratulations. This is how you feel when you make a Big Plan and this uplifting feeling is yours to experience any time you fancy it.
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Old 02-24-2012, 06:39 AM
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Iamabsitnent and TU, it is so interesting how clever the beast is. But the more I practice AVRT the more I recognize it every time. As you pointed out, It is very clever at arguing both sides of the argument. For example, several years ago when I was anticipating results from a blood test hoping my liver function would be ok. I thought that if it was a bad result the only way to cope with the news would be to have a drink (beast talk). As it turned out the tests came out fine so I thought... "I haven't done any damage yet doing what I've been doing so I'll just celebrate the good news with continued drinking" (beast talk as well). Two sides of the argument and two totally opposite feelings, being scared on the one hand and happy and relieved on the other. The beast uses any argument and any feeling as an excuse to drink.

Years ago I would never have thought that there was another entity that was driven to survive inside of me talking me into this rationale. I would have just thought it was me and that's the way I am. It's so freeing to be able to separate and recognize.
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:07 AM
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Just one more thing....I have been thinking about something that I wanted to share.... There were some previous posts about seeing beast talk all over the place. I am a member on another board for quitting or reducing drinking and I haven't really been on it much for the last 2 months. Today I went back to it just to see what was going on and I recognized beast talk in almost every single post.

A common dilemma seems to be, "something just comes over me at 5 pm and it's like I get taken over and I succumb to drinking. I don't know what it is, it's like one minute I'm ok, the next minute Im all alcohol thinking". People in general seem to be aware that something takes over and that there are voices in their head telling them to drink. They are just not aware that this thing that takes over and this voice talking to them is not them. They think it's them, and that's what causes them to think they have to obey. .... I know, a lot of pronouns, but I hope I'm getting my point across. Just recognizing and separating is a huge thing that most people not familiar with AVRT just aren't aware of.
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Thrifty View Post
People in general seem to be aware that something takes over and that there are voices in their head telling them to drink. They are just not aware that this thing that takes over and this voice talking to them is not them. They think it's them, and that's what causes them to think they have to obey...
They are fully in the grip of their Addictive Voice, at one with the Beast, with no separation, or in RR parlance, 'all Beast'. One of the prime functions of the Addictive Voice is to conceal the existence of the Beast, and the AV usually does this very well. You might want to consider doing them a favor and telling them about AVRT.
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SoberDan View Post
I'm in. 4 months sober today and just finished reading rational recovery...
I recommend that you read through this thread from the beginning as well.
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Thrifty View Post
It is very clever at arguing both sides of the argument. For example, several years ago when I was anticipating results from a blood test hoping my liver function would be ok. I thought that if it was a bad result the only way to cope with the news would be to have a drink (beast talk). As it turned out the tests came out fine so I thought... "I haven't done any damage yet doing what I've been doing so I'll just celebrate the good news with continued drinking" (beast talk as well). Two sides of the argument and two totally opposite feelings, being scared on the one hand and happy and relieved on the other. The beast uses any argument and any feeling as an excuse to drink.
I cannot believe I never spotted this myself. For years and years, if I felt bad about something, I'd drink to console myself. If something good happened, I'd celebrate with a few drinks. It seemed so logical at the time but, really, it's so stupid. The Beast had me right over a barrel. The drug never changes so how can it do two polar opposites? AVRT exposes the Beast as a snide salesman out to sell people things they don't need. I bought into it for a long time, not any more though.
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:39 AM
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Never pity the enemy

On a similar note to the above: If you ever find yourself starting to struggle, remember that any negative feelings/relapse anxiety cannot possibly be yours.



AVRT Matrix Copyright rational.org

If you think you might take a drink after watching an advert on television or you are anxious about having to meet some friends at a bar, remember the anxiety is not yours. By definition, it cannot be. It is your Beast who is worried and by rejoicing in its negative feelings you can feel good about any so-called trigger situations.

It took me a while to get my head around this but I think it is one of the most important aspects as you can turn the tables in your favour in an instant.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:45 PM
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I just wanted to thank TU for introducing me to Rational Recovery. I just read the Quick Start and some of the Crash Course. Everything I have read so far makes such perfect sense to me.
I have to go to work, but intend to start at the beginning of this thread and read it in it's entirity as well as reading the rest of the what I have started.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:56 PM
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On to part four...

This thread is continued here:

For reference, the previous two parts are available here:
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