micealc

I am very Interested In AVRT....the only Problem I could see with it is I may stay a Dry Drunk....Or an Angry Person....If I dont deal with what Caused me to drink or Drug or Smoke in the First Place........Can you be contented and Happy using AVRT.....Any Advice.....Please.

Terminally Unique

There is no such thing as a dry drunk, nor is there anything "wrong" with anger per se. Although pathologized in certain recovery groups, anger exists for a reason, usually to let you know that someone is taking advantage of you. Without anger as an early warning that something is wrong, no one would survive in this world for very long. The good news is that AVRT is rapid deprogramming, and will snap you right out of the "dry drunk" and "anger is bad" mindset.

AVRT is not a design for living, but once securely abstinent, you can be whatever you choose to be. If you have other problems not related to your addiction, there is plenty of legitimate help out there, and in an abstinent state, you will be able to take full advantage of it. If you want to learn AVRT, get a copy of the book "Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction" by Jack Trimpey and read through it. You can get a copy online for less than the cost of a six pack of beer.

Terminally Unique

If you are never going to drink again, what are you counting towards? Counting time to gain confidence is Addictive Voice, implying that one's ability to abstain forever has yet to be proven. The idea that we are setting a new abstinence record every day, and that we should bask in these records as they occur, is simply the same old AV that is behind the one-day-at-a-time scheme. When an addiction is over, it is over. Set your confidence for lifetime abstinence arbitrarily at 100%, recognize all self-doubt as the Addictive Voice, and let the Beast worry about how long it has been since its last drink.

GerandTwine

I felt comfortable contemplating the date I terminated my unnatural appetite for booze and pot. I did it out of curiosity about how my body worked. I wanted to remember how long ago it had been so I could use the knowledge against my Beast, such as when it tried to use drinking dreams to convince me I had been drunk since I made my Big Plan. "When did I make my Big Plan? Oh, yeah. OK." Beast exposed. End of attack.

In studying biology, we properly impose our uniquely human awareness of time to understand the rhythmic timelessness of the desire to satisfy natural (and unnatural) bodily appetites.

Today, I still remember how I behaved when I was drunk or stoned, but there was a point at which I could no longer recall the physical sensation of being under the influence - first of pot, and then of booze. It happened over several years at approximately ten years abstinent.

When I observe people getting high at social events, it's quite easy to see behavioral changes - even after just one drink or toke. Usually they are subtle changes. I sometimes provoke my Beast and ask it, "Where are you, don't you want me to feel like that?", but there is no response other than a rare mild aversion.

I now spend zero time and effort at being a teetotaler.

UofI2008

I agree with TU on the counting sober time. I have been lucky enough to be successful at a few things in my life and I have learned through working at those that one of the worst things to be is to results-oriented. To me counting sober days is like a superb athlete couting points, goals, or touchdowns during a game. I don't think you would ever hear Micheal Jordan or Tom Brady say they were thinking about how well they were doing in a game while playing. It's ok to look back and reflect at milestones, but, it's way more important to be focused on the now and preparation for the future. If you have practiced and prepared for winning or staying sober it shouldn't suprise you when you win or stay sober.

IAmAbstinent

Speakign of other succeses Ive been trying to use these as motivators to remind me that Ive done this kind of thing in the past.

I've lost alot of weight before through diet and excerice.

Ive stopped drinking and smoking.

and

I AM NOW ABSTINENT (I decided I prefer this to the I will never...cos in nlp they say rather than phrase what you dont want its better to phrase what you want/are).

IAmAbstinent

Could ppl reocmend a daily regimen for my AVRT practice?

I have begun reading the thread form part one.

One thing I am wary of is keeping the beast at bay once a few weeks pass. What do ppl recomend for that? as that is usually when it has caught me before. I always have best intentions at first.

Is there just one rule being 'dissociate any tak of future substance use as your beast'. Thats the only thing I have to hold onto as my main artillery right?

So just get in the habit of doing that?

IAmAbstinent

Woohoo, Im up to lapses relapses and other nonsense and things are really starting to make sense now in terms of it being a 'cogent recovery system'. Im now getting spurts of enthusiasm as I turn the pages.

Terminally Unique

Once you get the mechanics down, you don't really need to practice too much, although it may take a bit of time to consolidate the ideas in your thinking. AVRT is more like a seed, that once implanted, seems to grow on its own. You'll soon start to notice all the variations of the Addictive Voice in your own thinking, and quite possibly in the thinking of others. The action exercise on Page 151 suggests tracking Beast activity in a journal, which might help speed things along, though.

For now, finish reading the book, and don't skip over the "action" exercises, or go back to them after reading. They are there to help you cement the separation between you and the Beast. Spend some extra time on Addiction Diction (Page 152), The Felt Presence (Page 182), The Addicto-Depressive Condition (Page 184), Relapse Anxiety (Page 188), Shifting (Page 202), Aggressive Listening (Page 205), and Attack Your Beast (Page 206).

Print out the AVRT Matrix that was posted further up in this thread and spend some time on that as well. It is an updated version of the "Relapse Anxiety Grid" on Page 190, and is useful for the shifting exercises. What I did was to tape a copy at the bottom of page 147, at the end of the section on "The Big Plan," which has plenty of space, and another copy on the inside of the front cover.

The "Functions of the Addictive Voice" list is also worth printing out, but I recommend reading through this whole thread, since there are tips scattered throughout.

1. AVRT Matrix —
   
   
2. Functions of the Addictive Voice —
   
   
3. Another Function of the AV —

IAmAbstinent

Ah your link to 'relapse anxiety' just pointed out something I was about to bring up and pretty self explanatory that it is what I was concerned about. I still have the resolve that I will never drink again right now unlike before I made my big plan where I wasnt ready to say never. I am definitely still saying never but woke up today 'scared' I may lose my resolve. So this is just to be marked up as beast activity? Not quite up the that page yet (183) but just jumped ahead.

So my beast is just masquerading in my mind thoughts of relapse anxiety and to be flushed out like any other beast thought?

Terminally Unique

The Beast can only make you struggle ("white knuckle") if you are uncertain about the possibility of future drinking/using. Therefore, set your confidence level for lifetime abstinence arbitrarily at 100%, and recognize all self-doubt as the Addictive Voice, as the Beast trying to wear you down.

Remember the definition of the Addictive Voice: "Any thinking, imagery, or feeling that supports or suggests the possible future use of alcohol or drugs -- ever."

Relapse anxiety is just AV, since it obviously suggests the future use of alcohol or other drugs. You can't "flush out" the AV, but you can recognize relapse anxiety, along with any other desires for alcohol or drugs, and attribute them to the Beast, as opposed to yourself.

This is the AVRT Law of Attribution, so that all thoughts of drinking/using belong to the Beast, and not to you. In this way, you may even say to yourself "since all addictive desire is not me, but the Beast, then not only will I never drink/use again, but I will never even want to do so."

Once you get the hang of this attribution idea, it will help immensely with any ambivalence or self-doubt. Spend some time thinking it over, and try to commit it to memory.

IAmAbstinent

As I read the last cpl paragraphs I got a sudden jolt feeling running through my body like a weight lifting off me, it was a momentary feeling but certainly distinct. I will think about it more. Where abouts in the book does he talk about this law of attribution? since either my beast caused me to not take it in 1st read or I havent read it yet.

Terminally Unique

I don't know if the term "Law of Attribution" is mentioned explicitly in RR:TNC, since I haven't read it in a while, but it is certainly implied. One of these days I should really go back and re-read the book, but I probably picked up the term either from the Journal of RR or from the RR forums. I do know that it is made explicit, if not exactly named, in The Art of AVRT. I referenced it fairly explicitly myself in the following two posts, though.

1. Law of Attribution —
   
   
2. AV Chatter & Separation —

IAmAbstinent

Reading thru the book at the part where the girl is at the show and realizes anxiety to hug the band member as a beast excuse rang a bell in my mind.

I just thought that this realization wipes out my 'relapse anxiety' I had the other day since my beast's usual excuse was 'im really angry and depressed I -Mr. Beast- deserve a release'.

So these reasons should logically evapourate since I have decided I will never take drugs again and I will never change my mind.

Of course life brings it's ups and down but I will deal with them from a position of 'secure abstinence'.

RobbyRobot

Fasinating thread! Impressive!

I finally made my way over here to see what was what with AVRT. Yeah, I'll purchase the book as recommended for learning / understanding AVRT.

Have no working knowledge of AVRT -- as of yet. Seems to have alot I might already be in agreement with from a different perspective perhaps.

Hope you guys don't mind me hanging around here as I come to an understanding of AVRT. <GRIN>

Terminally Unique

Don't mind at all — I've seen some parallels from your posts. I look forward to your input.

freethinking

Just know that if anyone comes in here and calls you a sobriety giant like I saw the other day, we're all going to get scared off and run.

(kidding!!)

IAmAbstinent

Guys Ive been wondering once I feel I have the concepts down how long do you think its wise to keep coming on the forums and actively looking for new information?

In one sense Im thinking I should keep things up to scratch by doing this but in another sense Im thinking once I know RR it gives all the tools to practice myself in day to day- and indeed rather than relying on others this is encouraged.

Ie I want to put this chapter in my life behind me and focus on 'the real concerns of living' as trimpey put it or similar.

So Im wondering what the best strategy is here. Im thinking the book is always a good goto to have but practically once I know the structural model well I can just execute on the fly right?

Not Im at that point where its automatic yet just thinking what the best way to go forward is so that I can go back to spending my time on day to day life in full 'secure abstinence'.

Thoughts?

IAmAbstinent

btw i may certainly come back to show appreciation for the help (thought perhaps the best appreciation is to NOT come back ) but just talking about in terms of abstinence and the method in above post.

Terminally Unique

By its very nature, AVRT-based recovery is ultimately a private experience, and is not really conducive to endless, group-based recovering. Indeed, this is in large part why the RR meetings were eventually disbanded once AVRT matured. While others can shed light on some concepts or ideas that may not be immediately clear, at the end of the day, you will have to put them to use. On the official RR forums, the mods encourage people to move on once they have a sufficient understanding of AVRT.

I won't tell you what to do, but I will say that I fully expect that people won't hang around here forever, and this includes me. This practically ensures that SR will never get a large number of AVRT'ers hanging around, but that's not the point of AVRT. The point is to drive a stake through your addiction and to get on with the business of living life. A forum setting such as SR is an ideal way to allow for this sort of thing, though, since it saves a history of past discussions for others who may come later.