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A long road - Part 1

Old 06-13-2014, 07:25 AM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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Chic, you are smart and organized.

Set yourself up a list of tasks and make a specific time to talk to your son in law and daughter whose assistance and back-up muscle you require. Please be honest about sharing with them, because this stress is eating you alive and it WILL affect your physical health, it just beats you down when you have to live with him every day.

no drama, just tell them what you think needs to happen, it's your house, you live it, not them. I would say stop sheltering and not wanting to "bother" anyone else and preserve your own sanity. As you are getting older, (sorry i don't mean for that to sound snotty) it is getting harder. What is going to be in 10 years if you don't act now? You will be more upset and he won't have moved in a forward direction.

make a list of what you expect him to do, hand it to him in writing and give a copy to your daughter he has NO RIGHT TO DISRESPECT YOU IN YOUR OWN HOME, if he wants his little room, he has to come out and listen to the owner.

these are just suggestions about what I would, i'm not trying to tell you what to do, big hugs and a big bowl of ice cream to follow.
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:49 AM
  # 42 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chicory View Post
My son is an alcoholic, of that I am sure, finally.

Yesterday was his birthday. 42 years old. I hate to admit some things, it is embarrassing to admit how much I enable him. He lives with me, because no one else wants to have him around. He is jobless, no transportation, and I believe a mental disorder to go with it. He has always been the most argumentative person I have ever known. Lets just say only a mother would want to sacrifice her peace for this guy.

He does not drink, unless he gets work. He never asks for a thing. except maybe tobacco money when he is out. smokeless tobacco now. at least that's a good thing for his health, and my safety. lol at least I know he isn't lighting up cigs in his room drunk, when he does drink. best investment for my peace of mind , so far... I say so far, because I want him out, some how, some way. for me, for him.

He went to his friends this weekend. his best friend since childhood. they are like bro's. and I am glad he has a friend. he burned all other bridges, long ago.

I bought him some new shoes, as he has a job interview this week. and a pair of nice shorts, to replace his raggedy ones. about 85 bucks worth. I do the same for all of my kids, on their birthdays.

He came home last evening. He was pretty much stoned, I can tell. He appreciated the gifts, but they were the wrong sizes. So I was going to exchange them today, for the right sizes.

my daughter was talking with me today, about how we can't even plan for my grandbabies to stay overnight, tonight. I do often keep them when he is not working or drinking. he has no way to get stuff other wise.

I tried not to engage him on the subject, but I did go ahead and ask him if he was going to be doing either, as I wanted to make plans for my grandbabies to stay. He got all incensed over it, how can his sisters be hypocrites, they drink, (moderately), etc etc. would not even give me a straight answer... he is the king of evasive, non-committal answers. about everything. whether he likes this kind of food, this hat, this person,etc.

anyway, I know he wont pass the drug test, if he even gets considered for the job. I wont let him use my truck to get there, as I dont know if he would be smoking pot or not. I would take him, however. I dont know why I bother anymore, I have no hopes that his jobs will work out. I do not encourage him anymore either. it only leads to him drinking up his first paycheck. a binge of sorts, albeit he does not get crazy drunk anymore. just drinks quietly till its gone.

I know he has anxiety. He has depression. He has nothing , at his age, even though it is his fault, which he will argue til the cows come home. I dont even argue with him anymore.

I did send him the sticky from SR on what alcohol does to the body and brain. he did not know all that, and he seemed to appreciate my doing that, for some reason. Actually, he said it made him feel better, as he did not drink like that anymore. He is in denial about what alcohol has done to his life.

I know that his issues have a lot to do with it too, though. He has so much anxiety, he makes me a nervous wreck, when he is all anxious about something. I understand why he self medicates. but it will kill him, and its not doing a lot for me, either.

I put him out once, he went to a shelter, and it did open his eyes for a second. but a friend took him in, and then when that friend could take no more, he had no where to live. I took him in, and he promised to get help. He did go to a counselor and a diagnostic therapist (?) and they said situational depression. I know he understated his drinking to them. no doubt at all about that . he always does. I could watch him drink a whole bottle of booze, fall down and he would still say he wasn't that drunk. dont they all say that sort of stuff?

anyway, today I am taking back the birthday stuff, and keeping my money. And I will tell him why. NO job, no need for shoes.. he has good enough ones to sit around in. I need better ones for work, myself.

I don't feel like I have gotten very far in my recovery from codependency. I only fear putting out my son onto the street and he does not have the sense God gave a lemon, as someone I know likes to say.

I only wish he would swallow his pride enough to go and get disability for his mental issues and he would probably qualify for rental help. and medicines for his disability of anxiety and depression. but it is not the sort of buzz he wants..... thats what it boils down to, I think.

Sometimes it is months between times he drinks. he never steals from me nor asks me for money for booze, like he used to. so that is progress. a teensy bit of it. but still , he is getting no where. he blames the economy, and/ or anything else he can.

I hope to get better at this. stronger, and hopefully somehow force him to get help, without causing him to end up in a more dangerous situation. The fear I have has a grip on my brain, and its strong. I dont know how to overcome it.

Thanks for listening. I hope this helps someone else, and not hurts by showing how little strength I have garnered so far.
Is your husband alive ? How many other children do you have ? Do you live close to each other, I mean your other children ?

Let me pray for you.

God, you were victorious in exiling all the demons, that you encountered. You also said you would give anything I ask for in your name. I ask for this mother, who has a lot of love for her son. I ask that her son be met by you - Jesus, on your terms. Are you not the God whose glory is most revealed in what we humans call helpless ? Are your plans not higher than our thoughts ? Dear God, I claim your promise over this man and his mother now. May your glory be revealed in his case. May his mother be proud of him and herself for not giving up, and may you perform a complete turnaround in his life. I ask that you make a successful man out of him. May all the demons leave him, sine I claim this man for your work of rescuing others.

In Jesus name, amen.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:27 AM
  # 43 (permalink)  
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Thanks everyone for your thoughtful ideas and support. and the prayers.. I believe in prayer, very much.

a man came in at work and asked me if I had anyone who needed prayer, and I said my son. He prayed right then and there.

I shall use all this positive support, and go forward. praying myself for direction and so thankful for the support here.

My granddaughter is still here. I have the weekend to work out a written plan. I like that Idea Fandy.

You know, it must be depressing in itself, when others have given up on expecting normal behavior from you. I am so guilty here, and I am grieved at the lack of wisdom in myself.

love and hugs.
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Old 06-14-2014, 03:24 AM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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I spent time with my sister yesterday. We talked about our sons. Her son is in the same place, pretty much, as my son. He has been more functional, as in getting jobs and having a place, for a time. He is an alcoholic as well, hits up AA meetings but not regularly. The drinking begins again, and he has ended up at home, saying when he is alone, he drinks too much. He knows AA, he has a choice, but is doing so badly that they have given him a week til he must leave.

It is so strange, to me, that all the males in our family struggle with addiction. both of my sisters have sons, who are most likely alcoholics. my A fathers grandsons.

My son was so stoned yesterday. How can someone smoke stuff and it not be smelled in the house? Or perhaps it is something else, pills? I know his source of pot, no doubt of it.

I cannot approach him when he is stoned, or whatever, in fear of him becoming crazy mean. but I want to just rip him out of this house.

I am going through plans, in my head for now, of what to say, and who I am going to ask to be here when I do.

Once in a while, I feel excited about having a different life than I have been living for the last 8 years. A teensy hopeful feeling.
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Old 06-14-2014, 03:46 AM
  # 45 (permalink)  
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"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune--without the words,
And never stops at all..."
Emily Dickinson

This stanza of this poem means a lot to me chic; we keep moving forward with hope and light, and life will open its doors to us. I believe that.

V xx ♥
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Old 06-14-2014, 03:58 AM
  # 46 (permalink)  
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(((Venus)))
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Old 06-14-2014, 04:09 AM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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Chicory--I hate to think of the paper that I have wasted in writing up plans and contracts and agreements and "rules"--when my adult son was living in the house--on and off, over the years with me and my sweet husband (who passed suddenly).

I learned that if you make a boundary--you had better be willing and able to enforce it!

Certainly, I don't know all the particulars about your situation---but I get a feeling that you are proceeding with little to no help.......?

Am I mistaken about this....?

dandylion

p.s.--you DID say that you wanted us to held your feet to the fire!
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Old 06-14-2014, 04:11 AM
  # 48 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chicory View Post
My son is an alcoholic, of that I am sure, finally.

Yesterday was his birthday. 42 years old. I hate to admit some things, it is embarrassing to admit how much I enable him. He lives with me, because no one else wants to have him around. He is jobless, no transportation, and I believe a mental disorder to go with it. He has always been the most argumentative person I have ever known. Lets just say only a mother would want to sacrifice her peace for this guy.

He does not drink, unless he gets work. He never asks for a thing. except maybe tobacco money when he is out. smokeless tobacco now. at least that's a good thing for his health, and my safety. lol at least I know he isn't lighting up cigs in his room drunk, when he does drink. best investment for my peace of mind , so far... I say so far, because I want him out, some how, some way. for me, for him.

He went to his friends this weekend. his best friend since childhood. they are like bro's. and I am glad he has a friend. he burned all other bridges, long ago.

I bought him some new shoes, as he has a job interview this week. and a pair of nice shorts, to replace his raggedy ones. about 85 bucks worth. I do the same for all of my kids, on their birthdays.

He came home last evening. He was pretty much stoned, I can tell. He appreciated the gifts, but they were the wrong sizes. So I was going to exchange them today, for the right sizes.

my daughter was talking with me today, about how we can't even plan for my grandbabies to stay overnight, tonight. I do often keep them when he is not working or drinking. he has no way to get stuff other wise.

I tried not to engage him on the subject, but I did go ahead and ask him if he was going to be doing either, as I wanted to make plans for my grandbabies to stay. He got all incensed over it, how can his sisters be hypocrites, they drink, (moderately), etc etc. would not even give me a straight answer... he is the king of evasive, non-committal answers. about everything. whether he likes this kind of food, this hat, this person,etc.

anyway, I know he wont pass the drug test, if he even gets considered for the job. I wont let him use my truck to get there, as I dont know if he would be smoking pot or not. I would take him, however. I dont know why I bother anymore, I have no hopes that his jobs will work out. I do not encourage him anymore either. it only leads to him drinking up his first paycheck. a binge of sorts, albeit he does not get crazy drunk anymore. just drinks quietly till its gone.

I know he has anxiety. He has depression. He has nothing , at his age, even though it is his fault, which he will argue til the cows come home. I dont even argue with him anymore.

I did send him the sticky from SR on what alcohol does to the body and brain. he did not know all that, and he seemed to appreciate my doing that, for some reason. Actually, he said it made him feel better, as he did not drink like that anymore. He is in denial about what alcohol has done to his life.

I know that his issues have a lot to do with it too, though. He has so much anxiety, he makes me a nervous wreck, when he is all anxious about something. I understand why he self medicates. but it will kill him, and its not doing a lot for me, either.

I put him out once, he went to a shelter, and it did open his eyes for a second. but a friend took him in, and then when that friend could take no more, he had no where to live. I took him in, and he promised to get help. He did go to a counselor and a diagnostic therapist (?) and they said situational depression. I know he understated his drinking to them. no doubt at all about that . he always does. I could watch him drink a whole bottle of booze, fall down and he would still say he wasn't that drunk. dont they all say that sort of stuff?

anyway, today I am taking back the birthday stuff, and keeping my money. And I will tell him why. NO job, no need for shoes.. he has good enough ones to sit around in. I need better ones for work, myself.

I don't feel like I have gotten very far in my recovery from codependency. I only fear putting out my son onto the street and he does not have the sense God gave a lemon, as someone I know likes to say.

I only wish he would swallow his pride enough to go and get disability for his mental issues and he would probably qualify for rental help. and medicines for his disability of anxiety and depression. but it is not the sort of buzz he wants..... thats what it boils down to, I think.

Sometimes it is months between times he drinks. he never steals from me nor asks me for money for booze, like he used to. so that is progress. a teensy bit of it. but still , he is getting no where. he blames the economy, and/ or anything else he can.

I hope to get better at this. stronger, and hopefully somehow force him to get help, without causing him to end up in a more dangerous situation. The fear I have has a grip on my brain, and its strong. I dont know how to overcome it.

Thanks for listening. I hope this helps someone else, and not hurts by showing how little strength I have garnered so far.
Hi Chic....my daughter was an addict...i couldn't stand her around...i didn't trust her...she stole..not from me she said..but still i didn't trust her...her mouth was aweful...she would beg me for my prescriptions if i ever got any...i would tell her i flushed them down the toilet...she would cry....but i didn't care..she would want money for this or that...nope sorry...she knew how i felt...and the whole family actually. i just prayed..and would ask for my children to all be happy and healthy. well..that daughter got pregnant...off drugs...is working and loves it..is a really good mom..and i am so proud of her..she did it herself. sometimes tough love and god can make things happen. i wish you the best...i know its hard..my husband is an alcoholic..i try the tough love...but he's buying it...lol....good luck
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Old 06-14-2014, 04:13 AM
  # 49 (permalink)  
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Hi Chicory,

My stepson likely suffers from some form of mental illness/disability, but he has never been diagnosed. He is an alcoholic, crack addict, and well, would take just about anything he could get his hands on.

I won't bore you with the repeated arrests, hospitalizations, etc. What finally hit home with him was his father (my husband) evicting him. It was very hard to think about him being on the street fending for himself, but he is amazingly resourceful. He has realized that he is responsible for himself. It took a while, and he still makes major mistakes, but overall--he's better than he was.

We just had to love him enough to do what was best for him in the long run, even though it was and is painful for us right now. What was best for my stepson in the long run was allowing him the dignity to try and fail and try again--on his own. After all, we won't be around to take care of his messes forever.
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Old 06-14-2014, 04:28 AM
  # 50 (permalink)  
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Chic, he can ingest pot through a vapor, like e cigarette...no smell.
My God, 8 years of YOUR life! walking on eggshells so you don't disturb his mood?
"Hell NO!
This codie stuff must go"!
I agree that you have to make boundaries and stick to them, not make excuses for this bad behavior...if he can get stoned all day, he can get up off his asss and do something productive. He is resourceful enough to get pot.
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Old 06-14-2014, 04:48 AM
  # 51 (permalink)  
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[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
Chicory--I hate to think of the paper that I have wasted in writing up plans and contracts and agreements and "rules"--when my adult son was living in the house--on and off, over the years with me and my sweet husband (who passed suddenly).
Dandylion,
my 'list' isn't for him to read.... its just putting down on paper, my plan of action.

I learned that if you make a boundary--you had better be willing and able to enforce it!
Yes, that is the tricky part of all of this.


Certainly, I don't know all the particulars about your situation---but I get a feeling that you are proceeding with little to no help.......?

Am I mistaken about this....?
You're 100% right .. no help, because unless I am ready for my son in law to throw him into the street, there isn't much else anyone can do.
His dad lives 1000 miles away, and he and his wife do not care... they tried their 'token' help and are done. they have lives to live, and good for them. His dad never did anything for his kids anyway.

and yes, I do need help, from SR. It is my only help. my daughters have no idea what to do either.

my heart is so heavy this morning. and I feel so pressured and hopeless. He was high last evening, and up all night. Heaven knows what he does in his room, but it is depressing the heck out of me, to feel so powerless. For some reason, reading inspirational quotes online only made me feel more sad.

It is so hard. As a child of alcoholic parents, I lived so unhappily and with such chaos all the time, I guess my tolerance of a##holes is high, and maybe I even feel it is my lot in life. I know that is NOT true, but still, I think it happens to ACA's. Like it is normal and just a fact of life. to suffer because of the choices of those we love. it stinks.

I will be alright. Having a rough time this morning. guess the reality of it all is overwhelming me.

I need to realize that just because I have not done the right things so far does not mean that I cannot do them.

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Old 06-14-2014, 04:54 AM
  # 52 (permalink)  
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You have done the right things.
And you are not powerless.
But yes, being an ACOA can bring these feelings to the forefront in these situations.

You have power, and you have control.
Firstly, you have control over you. Your responses. Your attitude here.

Acceptance my love. Yes, I know you want this situation to change, but in order for that to happen you need some peace of mind. It is what it is right now. OK, he was stoned. There are issues. All of these things make you want to move forward to something better for both you and him. That's a positive thing.

Acceptance. And then we move forward.
You have some great ides. You are a list maker. Write it down. Work through it.
And effect some changes. One at a time if need be...

This can be better.
The path out may not be clear right now, but there IS a path, and you are working your way along it.

I love you.

V xx
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Old 06-14-2014, 04:54 AM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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Chic, I have been following your thread and my heart just hurts for you.

The only difference in my own son's behaviour/recovery/relapses/addiction between when he lived at home and when he did not, was "me" and how removing the chaos of addiction, I could finally find peace. Yes, peace even knowing my son was living on the street/in detox/at rehab/back to the street as his cycle continued...because his cycle had always continued and maybe always will, with or without me.

It's hard, fear gets in our way, fear that they may die, fear that they will live horrible lives. The thing is, they do still have a choice, there are places that will help them far more than you or I ever could.

Having the front row seat to their addictions is the worst seat in the world. Losing the "safe place" of our homes leaves us no safe place at all. It just hurts watching our children self-destruct.

Sacrificing your life for his won't change anything, that's the cold hard truth. If it would there would not be a single mama on these boards.

Keeping you and your boy in my prayers, that God can do for him and for my son what we mamas cannot.

Hugs
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Old 06-14-2014, 04:55 AM
  # 54 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Fandy View Post
Chic, he can ingest pot through a vapor, like e cigarette...no smell.
My God, 8 years of YOUR life! walking on eggshells so you don't disturb his mood?
"Hell NO!
This codie stuff must go"!
I agree that you have to make boundaries and stick to them, not make excuses for this bad behavior...if he can get stoned all day, he can get up off his asss and do something productive. He is resourceful enough to get pot.
his best friend is his source. He does not see him often, as he lives in another town, but when he does he comes home with a bit of it, I think.

I just confronted him, telling him that i want my grandbabies to be able to stay over and I cannot when he is using and that I do not want to live this way and wont. that I will turn him in if I need to.

he said he does not know where i get my ideas, and that he has been up and working on stuff, and that I imagine this stuff. I told him I was not stupid, and that when my sister was here last evening, his eyes were swollen and red, and that I knew he was high.

of course, he went right into his room, shut the door, and as always I was talking to him through the door. It will probably be a scene to get him out.

I'd like to imagine a lot of things right now.
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Old 06-14-2014, 05:19 AM
  # 55 (permalink)  
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You work hard
You have a right to peace and comfort in your own home

Growing up COA means we put up with things other people never would and for much longer but we can change that and honor ourselves.

It sounds like your inner voice is giving you some direction, isn't it?
It is hard to take the first step but then easier.

Saying I would not keep destroying my mental and physical health to keep bringing my mother back to her own home to smoke and drink herself right back into the ER was one
of the hardest things I ever had to say to someone else.

I felt like I was being a bad daughter and not following the family "pattern" of expectation. But it was the wisest thing I ever could have done, difficult as it was.

Sounds like you may have a choice like this to make Chicory.
You deserve more from your life, and so does he. He isn't going to find that
hiding from life in his room in your home.
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Old 06-14-2014, 05:23 AM
  # 56 (permalink)  
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OOPs--sorry chicory---I just assumed the list was for him....my bad.

I would actually like to hear your plan of action. Maybe we could help you with it.

I will keep reminding you that there is a world of help out there in the world that you have not (yet) connected with. How do I know? Because I have seen it. I have seen others seek help and get it. I have seen people gather together to help each other. I have gone to virtual strangers a sought help...and, received it.

So, often our greatest limitation is in our own minds and our lack of knowledge or vision. Our world becomes so narrowed that we think that what we know is all that exists--and, we have no faith that there is something else.

It would be so nice if your family were able to be a solid source of help for you---but, it sounds like you are in the same boat as a lot of us...not too much that you can count on.

I believe that you are going to have to count on the help of those outside your family for your support and help and resources. You have to be able to say: "I need help--please help me". "I need help for myself" "I need help for my mentally disabled child".
The National Mental Health Association would even be a starting point. As well as the other Ohio organizations that I listed for you. Their websites have phone numbers to make your first contacts.

Heaven help me if my family of origin was the only place I ever sought help--I would have been in a world of hurt!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL! Except for my grandmother and her generation--they were of limited experience and vision.

I have been on my soapbox to you......because I CARE. I will climb down for the moment.

Again, I would like to see your plan or list--if you don't mind, of course.

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Old 06-14-2014, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by venuscat;4716636
This can be better.
[QUOTE
The path out may not be clear right now, but there IS a path, and you are working your way along it.
Yes, I have to believe that, and keep trying to MOVE.. and to not get frozen with fear of ... whatever it is I fear.

I love you.

V xx
[/QUOTE]
I love you too. thank you.
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Old 06-14-2014, 05:41 AM
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[QUOTE=Ann;4716637]
It's hard, fear gets in our way, fear that they may die, fear that they will live horrible lives. The thing is, they do still have a choice, there are places that will help them far more than you or I ever could.
This is the truth! I know it is.


Losing the "safe place" of our homes leaves us no safe place at all.
The worst feeling. all grown up and still at the mercy of someone elses choices. I know my choices got me here, but it began as wanting to help.

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Old 06-14-2014, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye13 View Post

Sounds like you may have a choice like this to make Chicory.
You deserve more from your life, and so does he. He isn't going to find that
hiding from life in his room in your home.

You are so right. I am not helping at this point. I know this with all my heart. Just giving him a hiding place. hiding from help.
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Old 06-14-2014, 05:57 AM
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[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
OOPs--sorry chicory---I just assumed the list was for him....my bad.

I would actually like to hear your plan of action. Maybe we could help you with it.
no no, I was not clear.. you are kind.

My plan so far....First thing will be to have someone, son in law, or my brother or some male... sit down with me and son and have a talk. or internet goes off. must talk about what changes will be made. He cannot live here with out doing something to become independent, and or get help counselling.

that is as far as I have gotten. I need to figure out who will sit in on this. his dad is too far away and would be useless anyway. he has heart issues that would put him in danger , besides.


So, often our greatest limitation is in our own minds and our lack of knowledge or vision. Our world becomes so narrowed that we think that what we know is all that exists--and, we have no faith that there is something else.
I am hopeful. I shall maintain hope.

It would be so nice if your family were able to be a solid source of help for you---but, it sounds like you are in the same boat as a lot of us...not too much that you can count on.
My family is supportive, but only so much they can actually say to him, he wont listen to his sisters either. but they will support me, I just hate upsetting their lives too.
son-in-laws however, would love to boot his butt. lol




I have been on my soapbox to you......because I CARE. I will climb down for the moment.
thankyou dandylion. I appreciate the help, honestly, very very much.

I dont know how to summon my strength. this helps me to do that.

love and hugs, to all of you caring angels.
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