Lenina

(((((chicory)))) I am so sorry for this. I can only imagine the turmoil you must be in. I wish I had some words of wisdoms. I don't. I'm grateful you've got the appointment on
Wednesday. Keep breathing until then. It sounds like your son is having a tantrum.

When I was visiting with my brother, I was listening to his recollection of things. It sure was far from the reality that I remember. I don't think he knows how bad he was. Doesn't remember, maybe. His timeline was sure off. Blaming this one and that one. I wasn't around so much so maybe I'm wrong.

I do know youre taking care of business. Be as calm as you can be, there's nothing to be argued. Continue with your plan, it's a good one. Take care of you. You deserve a peaceful life.

Much much love from Lenina

dandylion

chicory....It would be my suggestion to avoid these kinds of exchanges at all cost. Of course, that means that you will have to exercise a LOT of detachment. None of your logic will be any more successful than it has ever been. It would be just like the wife of an active alcoholic arguing and hoping to get somewhere.

I would suggest sticking with the "master plan" and keep a very low profile from him until he has been diagnosed and taken into the system by professionals---various testings and the appropriate referrals for treatment...and perhaps job training and alternate housing--that sort of thing.

Trust me, a mother is the least likely person to make headway---professionals know how to deal with him---and...most importantly--he would never deal with them the same way he does you!!...LOL

good thing you have another appointment on WED.! You need this support.

dandylion

chicory

Thanks Leelee.

I got so angry, I could feel my bp going crazy. He would ask me a question, in pretense of wanting to talk, and I realized that he was just going to argue anything I said.

I was almost ready to call the mobile mental health people who come in crisis! He would not stop badgering me. It was a very bad hour.

I will breathe and just let it ride, until I see her on Wednesday. She may commit me, I can only hope.

chicory

Dandylion,
I fear he wont go and won't get diagnosed, and I cannot imagine getting him to cooperate.
Perhaps it will come down to me turning the internet off, and then he would probably do something.

I will avoid talking. I guess no more baby steps til I get some help. It does not look good.

Thanks for being here. I was blown away by his crazy ranting. temper tantrum? do adults do that?

Fandy

ah, that HTN....I swear honestly Mr. Fandy and I would argue and I could feel the blood roaring in my ears....as you might remember I had a seizure in my office..(I was sober it was 10AM, I was at work)...we were arguing about his vicious biotchy mama (God rest her black evil soul)...I hung up the phone on him, felt the blood roaring in my ears, the next thing I knew I had drool down my shirt and my slacks were wet. I felt "calm but spent" like I popped a blood vessel. I walked to the ladies room cleaned myself up and called Mr. Fandy again. I told him what happened, told him to please get his asss home (he was at Saratoga) and pick up the cat at the vet, he was in for getting neutered. I had paid for it, just pick him up in his bag and bring him home. I waited 2 hours, instead of walking to the ER, I got in my car and drove myself home...its only 4 miles. Mr/ Fandy took me to the neurologist and I was admitted for 8 days into the neuro floor where they ran every test in the book both cardiac and neuro...found the aneurysm in my head and strongly advised me to stop drinking...I did ...8 months later after I kicked him out and had more problems.

sorry to hijack, but I made myself sicker with the stress and self medicating by drinking and I know better...it took me almost 2 years to feel like a normal person, it stole my peace. I hope you can take a walk, chic or go visit the grandkids, get some ice cream and talk to your daughters tonight or your sister. I have no other family than my brother who I can't bother as I don't want to cause him stress...he has his own.
I am so glad you have a therapist to help you

Lenina

((((chicory))). Yes, adults to throw tempted tantrums. Ive seen them. many times, in people with addictions, the tantrums are actually throw by the addiction but acted out by the addicted. does that make sense? Doesn't change anything but might help you understand the magnitude of the addiction. Cutting off his Internet and messing with his cosy life is a huge threat to his way of life. addiction will protect its self at all costs.

you've got nothing more to say. you've told him how it's going down. you've set your boundaries and youre keeping to them. The ball is in his count at this point, I think. He can stew and steam all he likes or needs to, but that has nothing to do with you. you're done.

I'd love to whisk you away, I really would.

much love!

LeeLee

chicory

No Fandy, I need to hear this. no hijacking going on.. just good sharing. You are a strong woman Fandy. driving yourself home, not going hysterical.

I too hate to call the girls, with things like this. Even though they want to support me, they say things like " why do you try to talk to him.(even though they are right) I just wanted someone to help me calm down. thats why I am here

I am sorry any of us have to be here, but thank God for this place. I would truly lose my mind if I was not able to talk here. that is what brought me here in the first place, frustrations and anger and what not, about him.

I know I can get sicker from this stress. I am getting older and I have felt this weird tingling on the side of my head for over two weeks now.. I think I have done it before. maybe just the Hbp?

what is HTN , Fands?

chicory

Thank you Leelee, its nice to know that you would rescue me if you could. the kind thoughts are worth more than anything.

Lenina

(((chicory))). I believe HTN. Is hypertension High Blood Pressure.

XXOO. LeeLee

chicory

Thank you Leelainie!

I am getting dumber through this experience.

xoxoxo

hopeful4

Dont engage. Turn off internet or just change the password?

Either way, stick to your guns. He sounds like a naughty toddler.

XXX

Lenina

((((chicory))). No, you're not dumb to begin with and certainly are becoming wiser through this experience. painful wisdom, I'm afraid.

You've got a good plan. You deserve a peaceful life. He needs to grow up and take some responsibility. If he's not able to take responsibility maybe he needs an assisted living situation, like a group home. it's something to think about.

Much love to you!

LeeLee

FeelingGreat

Hi chic, you may have to accept that whatever happens, he won't get treatment. Turning off the internet may force him into it, but I think you should do it regardless. He's a very frightened boy right now, and he's dug himself a trench. Pushing him further on the treatment might make him dig in. The only reason he'll have to emerge is if his life gets so uncomfortable he has no choice.

Sometimes when we lose control on an argument we resort to threats. Children (and I count him as one) know once we start threatening we've lost already. You've given him the consequences of his action, now without further discussion it's time to go through with it. That's the only thing that will count for him. He may not go to treatment, or he may do it to 'trick' you into turning it back on, but you have to follow through quietly and resolutely.

The idea is that if he gets a job he will be able to pay for his own internet, right? Leave it at that.

FeelingGreat

On the fibre topic, don't overdo it at first or you may feel like you've got a mile of gum in your gut, which will be literally the case! Start small and build up.

You guys are inspiring me to get out the ancient jar of Metamucil from my panty.

chicory

Thanks all.

Yes, he is very immature and does not have any idea of how an adult works things out, I think. lot of that I take responsibility for.

I am not trying to get him to pay for internet, I am trying to get him out of my home, which he wont do very successfully if he does not get some counsel. If he takes their advice or not, at least he will have heard it from someone besides his mom.

There has been lots of dysfunction in this family. It really helped me to get some counsel, learn here, and I am getting therapy myself now. Sometimes you don't get what you need from the FOO.

I know this thread must sound pathetic to some...but he has deep issues and I want him to be able to get the help he needs, if possible, so he may someday have hope and believe in his self. Isolating has caused him to see things in a very narrow minded way.

hugs~

venuscat

Gosh, this is not getting any easier huh love?

I hear you. I hear all of you here...and Fandy...thank God you are OK now love. (((hugs))).

BUT....I'm going to be a pain in the azz here. I do not believe in tough love.
If this was me.....I would tell him, OK, I want to have dinner with you and sit down and talk. I would say you now know how I feel...we have gone around and around...this isn't working. He will say I know. I would say let's wipe the slate clean, no anger; what can we do now to help you move forward. Get him to formulate his own plan. Give him back some control. He has given up on being an adult. He needs to take that responsibility back.

You may tell me you have done all of this before.
I would suggest trying again.

I do agree that he needs to fill out that paper work and get some help to move forward, but unless he can make this decision on his own it will not work. Cutting off the internet?
Then what? Then you lose your lifeline and he will do what?

I love you chic.
I know my feelings and opinions differ from others, and I hope I am not being out of place. I just wish I could come and help you...

V xx

dandylion

Chicory....I think that, in your above post, you have conceptualized the situation quite well.

I like FeelingGreat's phrase: "quietly and resolutely" !!. Actually, I think that for most challenges, that is the position of power.

When you say "Sometimes, you don't get what you need from your FOO".....I am going to nominate that as the saying of the day!...LOL.
Probably, most all of us could testify to that!
Sometimes, it DOES take a village.
God knows, I couldn't be where I am today if not for some strategic help from those outside of my FOO.

Also, chicory, don't put yourself down....that is not very supportive to your self-esteem.
Every time you do that....you should drop to the floor and give us 10 push-ups!
Or.....put a nickel in the jar....

dandylion

chicory

Venus, dont you worry about giving your thoughts on this! Its great that we can do this. I know where you come from, and I appreciate your input! We are buds, here, and can have different beliefs.

I wish we could sit down and talk. It escalates, every time. He wont consider anything negative about his self. He will not take any blame, til the cows come home. That is why I am pushing for the therapy for him. I really believe he needs it, especially if he does not leave my home. Nothing I say has any weight. He needs to be evaluated and helped.

I am not throwing him out. That did not work before, so my tough love is really not that 'tough'. For him, yes, he may lose internet for a while... if he cannot survive that, there is much more wrong and he needs a crisis to bring intervention, anyway, you know?

From a few remarks he made last night, I think he might go for help. Kicking and screaming, as usual, but he would get a lot from having someone who listens, understands, and is wise and someone he can trust not to be manipulating him..as he thinks I am trying to do.

I am only going to cut the internet if he won't go for help. If he reacts badly to that, I can have him evaluated for a few days, and then if he is diagnosed with something that qualifies for disability, he can file for that and then perhaps get help with housing, meds, food assistance...

just something has to change, you know?

sometimes I think its ok to force something, in hopes of something good coming of it. I know I cannot make him change, but if I can get him to listen to someone else for a little while, perhaps he will find that he can do this without losing his dignity.

And Venus, its sad to say, but if we talk and he comes up with a plan, he will not keep his word. If I give an inch, he takes a mile.

He agreed when he came here that he would get some counselling. he was desperate at that time and miserable. He threw me a bone, went for eval, and did not follow through. I should have done this way back when.. but my soft heart for my children tried to believe in his excuses. his drinking loses his jobs when he gets them.

the end justifies the means..... I am hoping.

Oh, and when I say, 'This is not working', he accuses me of being neurotic, basically.

but I am listening to everything you are saying, love... and I love you for caring.

no more engaging in arguments for me.. I knew better, but hoped that we could talk about it. he just wants to change my mind.

love you!

chicory

Oh , I hate to h ave to go to work, gotta get in the shower.... thanks Dandy.. I will be feeling much supported this morning, from my dear friends here! I welcome all of your thoughts and help, and caring!

I really need the pushups!

love to all.

venuscat

Have a good day chic. I love you.

V xx