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A long road - Part 1

Old 06-14-2014, 06:01 AM
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Great great great

Originally Posted by chicory View Post
Thanks everyone for your thoughtful ideas and support. and the prayers.. I believe in prayer, very much.

a man came in at work and asked me if I had anyone who needed prayer, and I said my son. He prayed right then and there.

I shall use all this positive support, and go forward. praying myself for direction and so thankful for the support here.

My granddaughter is still here. I have the weekend to work out a written plan. I like that Idea Fandy.

You know, it must be depressing in itself, when others have given up on expecting normal behavior from you. I am so guilty here, and I am grieved at the lack of wisdom in myself.

love and hugs.
I knew God would respond. He always does. You have made the breakthrough now and may I suggest the next step for you ?

Here is the story :

There was a judge, who never cared about God neither about what people will say about him.

But coming to him, there was a widow, who constantly asked for just judgement against her opporesors.

Finally, this arrogant and blunt judge, who never cared about God nor men, was thinking to himself: I better give her justice, for I shall never be able to rid myself of her. And, he gave her justice.

Why ?

Because she would keep coming back.

In other words, if worldly judges give to persistent supplicants, how much more should your heavenly father give to those who ask Him !

May I ask if you have looked into becoming disciple of Jesus yourself, since that is a real turnaround and gain in your situation ?

For certain, God adds difficulties in our lives to remind us of greater dangers - if you, God forbid, die in your present spiritual condition - where do you think you would end up ?
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Old 06-14-2014, 06:06 AM
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I had a long post typed out to you and my connection poofed out from the tablet at the other end of the house...must have been a fat cat body blocking the signal...I will place aluminum foil on everyone's tail to improve this, yes?

I think that you have had ENOUGH, you sound as though you are reaching that saturation point and self-preservation is kicking in....detaching from him is hard, but necessary, you are formulating an ACTION PLAN in your mind and paper will help, bringing in a strong male figure (who you have explained this to in depth that it is killing you) will help too.
Your son, KNOWING AND SEEING a change in mama will also stop him from manipulating you further. That you can do right away and easily, without stomping or drama, just a subtle change that lets him know you ain't kidding around....

If you cater to him with food or cigarettes, stop NOW. Eat what you want, buy what you like and do it when YOU want to.

one more suggestion, get outside today, go somewhere and do not give him any information about it. take charge.

we are here with you, I wish you lived closer, I would come and drag out the door to go walk Sammy.

I can never imagine Ann in her previous turmoil, yet I know she was there. She worked really hard to get to a good place and I think you can get there too. big hugs.
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Old 06-14-2014, 06:06 AM
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Husband ?

Originally Posted by chicory View Post
his best friend is his source. He does not see him often, as he lives in another town, but when he does he comes home with a bit of it, I think.

I just confronted him, telling him that i want my grandbabies to be able to stay over and I cannot when he is using and that I do not want to live this way and wont. that I will turn him in if I need to.

he said he does not know where i get my ideas, and that he has been up and working on stuff, and that I imagine this stuff. I told him I was not stupid, and that when my sister was here last evening, his eyes were swollen and red, and that I knew he was high.

of course, he went right into his room, shut the door, and as always I was talking to him through the door. It will probably be a scene to get him out.

I'd like to imagine a lot of things right now.
This is father's job - to confront arrogant children. This is serious, slamming doors to his only support - what would happen if his mother was not there for him ?

So, forgive me for asking, what happened to your husband ? This is man to man type of confrontation.
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Old 06-14-2014, 06:08 AM
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Thank you for your post and for caring1

I am a born again Christian, and believe I will be in Heaven when I die. I wish the same for my children as well, but its their choice and their journey.

I was talking with my sister about that last night. How many times have we asked for His help? A lot. but we keep asking and must keep trying to do the right things.

As a child, I prayed a lot, for God to help me. I believe He did, kept me alive, gave me three beautiful children, who showed me what true love was.

Now, I have more to learn. How to trust, and not hold so tightly to those children that I strangle them. that is the hard stuff for me.

Oh, about their father... he is not in the picture, at least not physically. He does play games online with my son(he never grew up much either). And lets his wife rule his life... no help from his corner. I will have to find another male to help make him listen when the time comes for our discussion. He does not respect me, and his father is as much to blame for that , as I am.
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Old 06-14-2014, 06:23 AM
  # 65 (permalink)  
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[QUOTE=Fandy;4716740]I had a long post typed out to you and my connection poofed out from the tablet at the other end of the house...must have been a fat cat body blocking the signal...I will place aluminum foil on everyone's tail to improve this, yes?

I think that you have had ENOUGH, you sound as though you are reaching that saturation point and self-preservation is kicking in....detaching from him is hard, but necessary, you are formulating an ACTION PLAN in your mind and paper will help, bringing in a strong male figure (who you have explained this to in depth that it is killing you) will help too.
I have always been one to not ask for help.. but I see that has not been a good thing. I have the perfect son-in-law for this...in law enforcement.

I will pick this up each day, and work with it. Contact agencys, speak with family. Tell daughters that I need help from the hubs and from them too. They love me,they will help. Not everything in family life is pretty...

I dont fix his dinners,, I come and go as I please, but I shall forewarn him, so he can be thinking about it. I told him today that I want no drugs in my home and I would not hesitate to turn him in if he does bring them. my detachment and lack of nagging him has seemed to bring about a very lax state of affairs on his part. surely he must be miserable and depressed about it? When he is upset, he talks about how he has no home, no family , no job, no one helps him. I guess he does need help, other than the kind he has been getting!







we are here with you, I wish you lived closer, I would come and drag out the door to go walk Sammy.
Me too..

[QUOTE]I can never imagine Ann in her previous turmoil, yet I know she was there. [QUOTE]I know, its hard to imagine.


you are a pal.
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Old 06-14-2014, 06:24 AM
  # 66 (permalink)  
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to answer Pavao...

Originally Posted by chicory View Post
Thank you for your post and for caring1
I am a born again Christian, and believe I will be in Heaven when I die. I wish the same for my children as well, but its their choice and their journey.

I was talking with my sister about that last night. How many times have we asked for His help? A lot. but we keep asking and must keep trying to do the right things.

As a child, I prayed a lot, for God to help me. I believe He did, kept me alive, gave me three beautiful children, who showed me what true love was.

Now, I have more to learn. How to trust, and not hold so tightly to those children that I strangle them. that is the hard stuff for me.

Oh, about their father... he is not in the picture, at least not physically. He does play games online with my son(he never grew up much either). And lets his wife rule his life... no help from his corner. I will have to find another male to help make him listen when the time comes for our discussion. He does not respect me, and his father is as much to blame for that , as I am.
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Old 06-14-2014, 06:34 AM
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You sound much less depressed and more determined to get through this. I wouldn't "forewarn" him of anything. You made a statement, now if he ignores it you have to act on it. (of course this could be your son in law too).
You made a boundary. Now you gotta stick to it. no more pussyfooting around.
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Old 06-14-2014, 06:34 AM
  # 68 (permalink)  
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chicory---thanks for sharing your plan, so far. As for my thoughts on this--I would say that it is a good skeleton of a plan--but will need to be fleshed out in detail.......... along with timelines. Include--at least, in your own mind what consequences will follow if/when these boundaries are not honored. Of course, I love the idea of cutting the internet off. That is a powerful leverage.

If you have such a talk--I would gather every single family member that you can to present a united front. Trust me--a show of force by numbers counts!! Cook a big meal to bribe them to come if necessary (LOL). Food is powerful, also.
**Helpful hint--remove the door from his room minutes before beginning the talk. The first thing they will do to shut you out is go to their room and shut the door. It is your door.

Do your homework and research first. You have lived like this for years---you can take the time to find out where the help is. I believe that you need him to be diagnosed from the developmental disabilities community, first.....otherwise you will have no idea of who to get for counseling. I think that just grabbing anyone for counseling is a BIG mistake. You might even let him help you with the research and picking where he would like to go for evaluation. If he understood that he could get lots of help with the practical things of life by this route he might actually be more co-operative than resistive. Actually tell him that you want him to help you to help him.
He might eventually end up in a half-way house, for instance--which is much better than living with one's mother.
I am just spitballing, of course--throwing out ideas. You will have to put in a lot of thought and planning of each aspect in order to completely flesh this thing out.But--at least, you have some ACTION starting to formulate---that is a good, proper start, I think. You have spoken a lot about your own fear and how you seem frozen by your fears.
I think any mother can relate to what you are saying. Who is helping you--I mean, at a personal one-to-one level? Counselor? therapist? ACOA meetings? Other parents who have walked in this path? church?
This is too big and hard to walk alone. You do need others by your side. We all need a soft place to fall---someone to nudge us when we falter--some to renew our courage when we feel weak--someone to cry to when we need to. Others who understand.
Chicory--if you don't have it--you gots to get it.

Here I am--on the soapbox, again. I will shut up when you tell me to.

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Old 06-14-2014, 06:45 AM
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I know its just a skeleton of a plan for now. I had the grandbabies over the last few days and need to do my research, I agree.

I have SR. that is pretty much it. perhaps when I contact these resources, they can give me ideas. I still want to get to Al-anon meetings too. have located one that is possibly still active, in my town.

maybe the family gathering will help , but he would only get pizzed, most likely, by a crowd during confrontation. He is very proud, and of course, this is my problem(as he says). but, i see where it might let him see that I am not alone .

Yes, Fandy, I know I need to keep this boundary. I dont want drugs in my home. period. what a jerk he is.

hugs.
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Old 06-14-2014, 07:01 AM
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chicory---of course he will be pissed and angry, at first. Expect it. He is free to react in any way he chooses. By the same token, you have the same right to choose your reaction. This is precisely why a show of united front is helpful--you have less reason to be afraid of his anger.
By the way, he knows that you are afraid of his anger--that is why he uses it--because it has worked soo well, for him. He knows where your buttons are better than you do..LOL! This is why they always gather everybody they can for interventions. There is power in numbers--especially if they are all on the same page.
You have got to stop worrying so much about if he "likes" you in the m oment. All kids get pissed a lot by their parents. But, down deep they still love you the same----and that is what counts.

It is good to know that he will resent you a lot less when he doesn't feel so dependent on you. All kids resent being dependent on their parents after they hit about a certain age---like, age 13yrs.!!!!!!!!!!! LOL.

You would benefit from the support and validation at alanon, I believe. I do think that an individual counselor would be worth the weight in gold for you--in addition to alanon. So many others, here on this forum have said that this was so true for them.

by the way--I believe that a strong faith of some kind is essential. I remember my dear grandmother telling me about a gazillion that "god helps those who help themselves". She turned out to be right, as far as I can see. Who do you think is helping me pound this keyboard?

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Old 06-14-2014, 07:44 AM
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You know, I don't actually care if he likes me or not...honest. I know he loves me.
I just think that he will get mad enough to walk out the door. that is what i am thinking will happen if I have a large group. at least, when I talk about whats going to need to happen.

I just want a male here, so he will respect a lot more what I am saying. He does not try to bully males. he is not a big guy.

Its a shame, but I am going to cancel my sleepover with my four year old grandson. I will go there to watch him.

I worry to have him here. I told my son this morning that the drugs have to be out of my home. that I would turn him in and whoever else is implicated. He said, I dont know where you get your ideas mom,,, I think i have a cold.. quack quack.

I dont trust him. He hasn't slept decently for days. up on the computer, then quiet for a few hours then up again. I know because his room is directly across from mine, my place is small, and I have been here with the granddaughter for the last two days and its just easy to see his patterns.. but anyway, I am afraid if he goes bonkers, since I threatened his life style, that he may be sleep deprived, take something else, go nuts while my grandson is here. not going to risk it. I will go to their house, and explain and my SIL will likely want to kick his butt , though SIL is a great guy...

I am sick of this affecting my life. with no hope of good coming out of it, you know?

I know he uses his anger to control me.. tried last time and I called the police. and I will do so in a heartbeat, and next time, I will tell them that he may have bad stuff in his room, let them look and take him away if he does. he deserves that, for ruining my peace. 42 years old is pretty old to be just wasting away, with no good reason. I know he needs help. I believe he is self medicating, but its not excusable.. he does not go bonkers without it.. just nervous and distracted and miserable.
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:53 AM
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Chic i have not read all the responses, just your post. Im wondering if your state has anything like ours here in MO. Its called Vocational Rehab. While they help the blind, they also help those w other disabilities, including assistance in diagnosis. My XAH went to them. He has depression and anxiety and possibly a form of Asbergers. They gave him tests to see what sort of work would be fitting for him and then sent him to several places to try out a few different jobs. He did get a couple of different offers. I know they also help w housing and additional schooling in some situations.

You may look into it in your state. The caseworker was great and very understanding.

I cannot imagine the anxiety all of this has to cause you. You deserve a break and some peace.

Hugs my friend...
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:56 AM
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Correction, you may tell him so he can look into it, hes a grown adult.
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Old 06-14-2014, 11:29 AM
  # 74 (permalink)  
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Thank you hopeful. we do have that here, but he refused thinking it was only about how to fill out job apps.... sigh... this is one pita!

hugs back. you will all never know how much you have helped my state of mind today. and every time your caring has extended to me. lots.

hugs.. I am going to be with grandson soon.. fun times!
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Old 06-15-2014, 02:52 AM
  # 75 (permalink)  
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Chicory..I also have been following your story.
I haven't any words that haven't been said yet know the agony
this is causing you.

I was looking way back in my notes of saved things that helped me make
a few decisions toward my son..I found this little letter from a Mom to her
son..it helped me many times over.

To my son, It's Your Move

~Unknown Author


I gave you life, but I cannot live it for you.
I can teach you things, but I cannot make you learn.
I can give you directions, but I cannot always be there to lead you.
I can allow you freedom, but I cannot account for it.
I can take you to church, but I cannot make you believe.
I can teach you right from wrong, but I cannot always decide for you.
I can give you life, but I cannot force it upon you.
I can teach you to be a friend, but I cannot make you one.
I can teach you to share, but I cannot make you unselfish.
I can teach you respect, but I cannot force you to show honor.
I can grieve about your report card, but I cannot make you study.
I can advise you about friends, but I cannot choose them for you.
I can teach you about sex and the facts of live, but I cannot decide for you.
I can tell you about drinking, but I cannot say "no" for you.
I can warn you about drugs, but I cannot prevent you from using them.
I can teach you about goals and dreams, but I cannot achieve them for you.
I can teach you kindness, but I cannot force you to be kind.
I can warn you about sin, but I cannot make your morals.
I can love you as a son, but I cannot place you in God's family.
I can pray for you and your future, but I cannot make you walk with God.
I can teach you about Jesus, but I cannot make Him your Savior.
I can tell you how to live, but I cannot give you eternal life.


Thanks for listening.
Good luck with your future.


I love you, son. Mom.
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Old 06-15-2014, 04:23 AM
  # 76 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chicory View Post
I can never imagine Ann in her previous turmoil, yet I know she was there.
Indeed, I was, but you know, Chic, I wasn't ready until I was ready. I acted and reacted to my son's 'situation of the day", I got mad at God for not helping...when in fact He was waiting for me to get out of the way. I had my heels dug in deep even when I knew the advice I was getting was solid and true and said with love.

I don't believe that we mamas were meant to be the "soft landing" for our kids. I don't think we were meant to kick them to the curb either. It's finding that loving place where we finally accept that we are being dragged down with them that we finally let go. In the end, hanging on never changed or helped them at all.

What helped me let go was to provide my son with a list of the "real helpers". Detoxes, rehabs all over the province (Salvation Army was free, as were many others here because of our provincial medical coverage), meeting lists, free counseling services, social services, clean houses/sober living and contacts, and any service that I thought might help him. It was quite a list and yes, I was the one who did the work because it eased my mind knowing he had better options than the street. Whether he chose to use them was entirely up to him. I kept copies of the list for when he might be ready at a later time...and to remind myself that there WAS help out there, all day every day, if my son was willing.

I am at peace today, I embrace life and the beauty each sunrise brings. But I remember like it was yesterday how much my heart hurt when I was trying to save my son who was never mine to save.

Love you lots. You will be ready too...in your own time. God will be there and we both know that He can do for our sons what we cannot do for them.

Hugs and Hugs from one mama's heart to another's.
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Old 06-15-2014, 05:36 AM
  # 77 (permalink)  
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(actually that was my original thought, Ann, but no matter).
Chic, I hope all is OK with you today, please check in, I tend to get concerned if I don't see you posting.

I hope that you all have a peaceful Sunday.
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:27 AM
  # 78 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chicory View Post
to answer Pavao...
Martha, Martha, you worry about many things, but only one is necessary.

When was the list time you sat at the feet of your rabbi and listened to him after making conscious choice to let the household worry for itself until you are finished listening what your rabbi has to say ?

Below is the link about the woman, who came out victorious from more difficult situation than yours, all by listening and obeying.


P.S. Mind if I ask why you keep sacrificing to idols ? This job of yours, isn't that a loss to Jesus ? He has work for you and you keep fishing on the wrong side of the boat.


The link to testimony :

Joyce Meyer's Personal Testimony (1) - YouTube
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:33 AM
  # 79 (permalink)  
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Hello all,

Little grandson just left. we had a great time. Had to secure word that son was not using or a danger to grandson and apparently he kept that word. I gave grandsons parents the option and they trusted my opinion. We live smack in a neighborhood, and if I had seen any stupidity *which normally does not happen with family here*, I'd have been out the door with grandson and neighbor is five big steps away... anyway...

Yes, Ann, that was what Fandy said, about you. I copied it to reply about it. I know it must have been such a terrible time in your lives. But you have found peace and joy.. I want those.

and Lauren, that was good to read. Good reminder that no matter how we raise them, they have their own moral code and hearts desires to follow. I can't expect him to feel as I do. But I can live life the way I want to.

I asked daughter if her hub could sit in with me, on discussing what needs to be done on sons part. She did not think that necessary, but that if son does not do by deadline, that then her hubs could come and enforce. I disagree,,, as I want son to know that others are behind me, 100%. and that it is not a passing phase I am going through, but a definite plan, definite expectations.

I am tired today, its been a busy and emotional week for me. I can look at my son and see the need for his world to be shaken at the core.

thank you, your support is invaluable.

hugs
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:41 AM
  # 80 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by pavaoiztarza View Post
Martha, Martha, you worry about many things, but only one is necessary.

When was the list time you sat at the feet of your rabbi and listened to him after making conscious choice to let the household worry for itself until you are finished listening what your rabbi has to say ?

Below is the link about the woman, who came out victorious from more difficult situation than yours, all by listening and obeying.


P.S. Mind if I ask why you keep sacrificing to idols ? This job of yours, isn't that a loss to Jesus ? He has work for you and you keep fishing on the wrong side of the boat.


The link to testimony :

Joyce Meyer's Personal Testimony (1) - YouTube
Pavo,

I must say, I believe I communicate with my God just fine. He has been helping me all along.
Thank you for your concern, but you and I have totally different opinions here.
You are a bit overboard accusing me of worshiping idols. I,ve been blessed with a job that supports me.

I think maybe you are on the wrong site?
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