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feeling hopeless

Old 02-18-2011, 10:14 AM
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feeling hopeless

background overview

son 38, who is most surely alcoholic, perhaps self medicating. still not working, lost last job, due to calling off ( drank when he got paycheck, but paid a lot of fines his self) has not drank for mponths, but is on edge due to being here and totally dependent.

no one can really understand his view of things. he is super good with verbally skill, but most of it sounds like a castle he has built his self. full of excuses - lack of "fortune". everything but his own fault.

i have been unable to put him out during winter- no car- no friends, no girl, no anything and no sense whatsoever. fear that he would die, fear that he is mentally unable to function, fear that he has a mental disorder, and he will not go for any kind of help - says he needs a job, and then things will be great. yeah, till he gets money , then he pretty much stays loopy. he tried harder the last time, to get to work, and to function, but he seems to have a nervous disorder, and medicates it. i have no problem calling him an alcoholic, but i think it is more than that. alcoholic due to not being able to function in the world or to be understood. he talks in his head a lot, picking up a thought, mid stream, and it takes me a while to figure out what the h he is talking about, then it makes sense.

but why start a conversation out of the blue with a sentence like "Well, hope her thinking was not from her high horse", without saying "mom, about my sister....

it is making me crazy and always did. i think we always were hard on him, judgemental about his opinions and the way he spoke them. i should have gotten him evaluated as a kid, for he has done this forever. he makes sense, but will start a conversation in mid thought like we were already discussing it.. i dont know how to help him. i know he has nothing much to do, and i know he is not happy- very lonely and sad that he does not have the things hat others usually do at 38 years old. it hurts us all for him.he cant seem to see what he is doing wrong- he does not always talk strangely, actually. he can function well in certain areas. he can reprogram a computer and he can work construction, and cook chinese food, and has held some jobs for more than a year, but something is not right.

he has friends , smart guys, who understood him and could talk the same way. they ahve been burnt by his couch surfing for the past 30 years, tho. so he has no support system but me, and I am beginning to think my life is over- i love him, but cant make him get help to get his life together. he thinks his problems are external, and to some degree they are , but they have been caused mostly by his self, i think.

it is hard to turn your back on your son, and no one else can bear to listen to him make excuses. this is killing me, and I know that he needs help.
why is it up to me? why cant God take this out of MY hands? Why cant there be someone else who gives a sh--? my son needs help, and I cant do it. i would put him out in the street, but then he will just fall through the cracks. it will probably come to that. cause his drinking here is unacceptable, and i have to save myself from it for it will happen if he gets money.
anyone ever been in this kind of situation?

thanks for reading and any sesh.
chicory

Last edited by chicory; 02-18-2011 at 10:17 AM. Reason: added to post
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:21 AM
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It'll be spring soon. The sending him out into the cold excuse won't work much longer. I'm not trying to be harsh, hon, but you know what we're going to say. The same thing we've been saying for months. He HAS to feel the consequences of his bad choices or he's not going to change anything. If he keeps getting fired for calling off from work to drink, but doesn't have a roof over his head, maybe he'll figure out that keeping a job is somewhat important.

I KNOW how hard it is, but you also know you are not doing him any favors by keeping him from reaching his bottom. We've all been here before. You know what you need to do.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:28 AM
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Hi chicory.
What does your son do with his time when he does not have money to drink?
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:31 AM
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sometimes the most loving thing you can do let them learn things the hard way. Unless he has a mental deficiency or is in some way incapable of fitting into society, he needs to be on his own.

I took my 55 year old cousin in a few years ago. He'd lost everything, certainly had a drinking problem. Behind in child support for years, as there is no recourse when you loose your job. the bill just keeps growing. His own worthless brother had him for a month, yet was unable to "help" him. He just dropped him off at a library everyday and said go find a job. Then, put him on a bus to me when it didn't work.

He has Autism, and let's throw in a head injury to boot. In short, he is not "normal". I took him personally to fill out a job application on site, and he was hired the next day. Took him a month to get on his feet on his own, and a little help from other family. He's now been living in his own place ever since. Works 40+ hours a week. Has a decent job, and is almost caught up with child support. Given a choice, he would sit in front of a TV, smoke, and drink all day.

I didn't give him that choice. And he stepped up. He is now a part of our society and family.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:38 AM
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Chicory, I just wanted to say that I am sympathetic. It must be a lot harder when you are the mom instead of a spouse, because our love is longer and more ingrained than romantic love.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:51 AM
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thanks for the replies. i work tonight and will be anxious to get home and read them all carefully.
my son has been a computer nut since 10 years old played role games with friends, then made friend with folks all over the world. he is quite smart from being able to learn about things he in interested in. he is politically left (democrtat) and very interested in world affairs. he has potential, but is mired in what ever it is, that holds him back from being part of the world.
thanks for the infor, about your nephew- that is wonderful. i know that if my son can hold a job for a year, he can do it again. but getting him there is the hard part.

hugs
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:53 AM
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he does not play games now. just s[ends time on computer. all day, drink coffee, smoke cigs. etc.
he spends time with me and is glad to talk a lot.he needs someone who cares enogh to listen.

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Old 02-18-2011, 12:43 PM
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chicory,

i understand how difficult this is for you.
have you considered taking care of yourself?
have you been to a meeting.
seems to me you had trouble growing up? a great deal of dysfunction, maybe addiction?

maybe Adult Children of Alcoholics would have the message and/or help for you.
This program, (ACA) is specifically for people who have grown up with dysfunctional caregivers.
I can tell you chicory, I have been around the 12 steps for many years, but this program really speaks to me.
When I tried to make sure my children did not turn out like me or their dad, it was me trying to control them and manipulate them, so I would be comfortable.
I am embarrassed and ashamed to admit that.
Honesty and courage is what it takes to get through the ACA program.
You have both of those in spades chicory.

Just try a little reading about it.

Beth
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:30 PM
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Chicory,

I’m sorry to hear about all the anguish you are experiencing in regard to your son. You also sound just like my Mom when she would describe her frustration about my AS, but didn’t want to see her get hurt by kicking her out either. I hate to sound harsh, but you are doing the same thing as she did, you are enabling him to the point that he is going to die right in your home from drinking/medicating. So either he dies in the streets or in your home. If anything, maybe getting booted out on his arse will make him take a long hard look at his life and make a decision, live or die. In my opinion, the strongest thing that all humans have going for them is the will to live, it is what gives us are survival instinct. That survival instinct kicks in gear for all of us all the time.

So, as I said, you sound just like my Mom, who let my sister live at home for close to 10 years, basically justifying, covering up, and supporting my sister. How did sis react, she just became a “secret” drinker, slowly killing herself and Mom would basically ignore the problem or act like it wasn’t happening. She has been going to Al-Anon for years and still does, learning to take care of herself first, which she did, but she also enabled to the point where my sister almost died 3 different times within a year, her liver is pretty much shot and diabetes also adds to the complications.

I had been telling her for years she needs to quit enabling her (she would pay her bills, car insurance, etc. while she would lose job after job). When sis was in jail on work release for DWI 3 or 4, my Mom would actually pick her up each day, bring her clean clothes, along with breakfast, lunch, and when she would pick her up from work, have a hot dinner for to eat on the way back to jail??? Yeah, rough time in jail.

It came to head about 15 months ago. Sis was in hospital for 3rd time that year, in ICU. At that point, I was done with AS, I couldn’t take it anymore. Mom wanted to just get her home and take care of her, but I finally said it was her taking care of her that was killing her. Enough of paying her bills, enough of making excuses on why she can’t hold a job (she has a college degree), of why she is still living at home at 40 years old?? I said it was time to let her figure out what she was going to do when she got out of the hospital, but she couldn’t go back to her home, she had to stay firm. “Where is she going to stay, how is she going to eat, what about her medication, how will she bathe, what about money, etc.”. Yes, a Mom worrying, that is what you are doing too. If they don’t care about taking care of themselves, why should you have to do that then? While sis was in hospital, I contacted her case worker, some other local organizations, to see what her options were and if there were any, to pass them along to sis, because she has nowhere to go. She ended up going to a homeless shelter for a week. I brought her a bag of clothes, $2 in quarters for phone calls, and let her know we loved her, but it was time for her to figure out how to live life, that the way she was living was unacceptable in Mom’s house and that those were her feelings too. I received a call a few days after her stay in shelter from a drug/alcohol counselor that my sister met with. She asked if we had the means to put her in rehab, that sis wanted help. We did and I said when she called and asks for help, we will. I met her that night in shelter. She looked like crap, was scared, it was a scary place, but she said she was tired of being sick.

To make a long story short, she spent 30 days in rehab facility. She has been sober for over a year now and looks wonderful and accepts the fact that she is an alcoholic, attends many meetings and has been holding down a steady job for 9 months now. It still is a day at a time for all of us, but I thank God everyday that my Mom finally listened to me and got tough. Yes, I had to be the middle man and I guess not being the parent allowed me to be tough, but I hated what my sisters drinking was doing not only to her, but to the rest of us, especially my Mom.

My prayers are with you and your son, please listen and read from this board, we all understand and empathize with what you are going through.
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:40 PM
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anyone ever been in this kind of situation?
HA! Every damn day of my life.

why is it up to me?
It isn't. You just THINK it is.

why cant God take this out of MY hands?
He CAN. But you won't let go. Because you want God to handle it YOUR way.

Why cant there be someone else who gives a sh--?
There is. But it is not YOUR job to find them. It is SON's job.

Love ya' Chicory. You will get there when you get there. Are you continuing to work on YOU in the meantime?
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:27 PM
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AHH Chicory it's the old..nothing changes if nothing changes..what kind of life does your son have now? Has letting him stay there , verbally abuse you, steal drugs from his sister, helped?Is he getting the help you insisted he get so you didn't put him out last time?Was there ever any follow through there?
Yes..he sounds like he may have Aspergers or something like that..if he likes the drugs for his"nerves" so much, you think he'd be running to the doctor for an eval.
He DOES have every characterisitc of an alcoholic..the pity pot..woe is me..will use other drugs when alcohol becomes not available.
Why would things have gotten better with no treatment?It won't ..it will stay the same or deterioate as long as you let it continue..why is it up to you?Because you are the enabler..the last one left standing.Give him a chance at a life..let him go...or don't, and accpept this as your fate.
When YOU hit YOUR bottom, and TRULY surrender, things will get better...
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:33 PM
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Chicory,

You know my take on this, so I won't repeat myself. You're getting good advice and support here. But we can't DO it for you.

L2L is right. God can't take it away if you won't let go of it.
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Old 02-18-2011, 06:34 PM
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Can't add much to all the good advice hear. Wanted to send ESH. I do think as mothers we see our children as different from a spouse. But all learning comes from consequences - do something and there is a result - you do something different there is a different result.

But as always here, your call for help seems to be more about you. What are you doing for yourself in all of this. I could offer many examples of what to with an adult child but none of it would help unless you have settled things with yourself. As a parent I have made some decisions I felt bad about but knew in my heart that it what necessary for the other to grow. So everytime I miss one of my kids or wish I had done things differently I always can remind myself that in my heart I made this decision and it is ok.

The harder part has been taking care of me.
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Old 02-18-2011, 06:40 PM
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The harder part has been taking care of me.
Yes, this has been hard for me too kassie.
I seem to spend a lot of time treating myself harshly for past transgressions.
Against my kids, they are past it.
They have told me they are past it, and I will work on letting it go.
Geez, it does suck sometimes chicory.

That first victory they have though, is like magic.
when my daughter got her job, you would have thought she won the lottery.
my son, when he went to airplane mechanic school, he was pleased with himself and proud.
They are both working very very hard.
I had to let go though chicory.

Beth
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:11 PM
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Hey Chicory...

...nothing specific to share here. When it comes to alcoholic children, I have no experience or strength, and my only hope is that my daughter does not become an alcoholic.

But, I will be thinking of you and wishing the best for you, and also the best for your son.

Take care,

Cyranoak
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:47 PM
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Wow- so many honest and helpful answers here.

Kassie, this is a call for help for me- so I dont go crazy while trying to get the strength to do what I know is probably the right thing. I want so much to believe my son, when he tells me something, but I know that he is not honest with me, if he is not even honest with his self.
I am not doing much to help myself, but not cause I dont want to. I was reading a book that I thought would give me strength, but it was a dud, for my situation.
I paid heck for claiming him as an exeption, and I am not going to help him financially. If he does not want to help his self, I will not spend another dime on his car, his anything. I needed to claim him, cause I have spent so much in the last three years, for insurance, for bills, etc. he is so angry about not being able to claim his self as an exemption. He would only drink the money anyway.
tonight I came home to him drunk- and I was so angry, and could not control myself or my mouth. why I just cant, i think it is cause I have anger from way back, and I just cant take anymore.
I have been trying to detach. to feel happiness, to not worry about him, and it is not hard when he is not drinking. but there is no doubt that he will, no matter how much I hope and pray.

I do feel ashamed that I am not doing what everyone says to do. to put him out.

Beth, I am from an alcoholic family, dad and mom both alcoholics. i went to aca group years ago, and found out that I was not weird, but that I became how I am in response to the alcoholics in my life. I would like to get some help. i need it. I think sometimes that I am going crazy, from the anger and sadness, and the fact that I have no choice- none but to put out a family member who has nothing.
my new grandson, 16 months old, looks just like my son when he was a baby. each time i am with him, i am reminded sharply of the beautiful son who smiled at everyone, and was the light of my life. who was thoughtful, and fun, and laughed and felt healthy, and loved the dukes of hazard, and pokemon. frankly, I am pissed at the world that my son is sick this way, and I just cant believe that it has happened. why, why, why God? Do I go to my grave, sad and without one moment of true joy, of true peace. I am mad at God, I have to be honest. First I have not a parent who ever took me in their arms and told me how much I meant to them, and now, the light in my darkness is an alcoholic. when my son was born, it was the first time I was truly happy. his dad was a bone head, and my children were the best thing ever to happen to me.

I am sorry for ranting. I am just so angry.

thank you so much for being here. and for letting me vent.

yes, nothing changes if nothing changes. I need help, I know. I wish there was a meeting close enough to me. one about 20 miles from here, and i dont do night driving. in the longer daylight it will not be so bad.
I am a mess.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:08 PM
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(((chicory))) Not the same but I wish you had had parents to hold you in their arms. This is my hug to you tonight. To say that you are doing the best you can right now, and maybe tommorrow you can do more. If not, it is important to vent and receive the support of others - please give that gift to yourself.

And please let go of the shame - it is your life and your choices to make. PPl are just sharing what they would do - it is not a judgement on you.

And I am taking a leap here, give your anger to your HP, Your HP may not have given this to you, but is certainly there for you to lean on, to curse at, and to give thanks when you are able. Your HP is great enough to take whatever you have to say and still be there for you.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:22 PM
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Alanon helped me with MY pity party...why me? I have done so much to avoid this, raised her right, educated her, given her help at every turn..well ..why NOT me? We ALL have our problems.. but I didn't WANT this! Well as Dr. Drew just flat out told someone in rehab...you don't get that.I get an addict daughter and you get an alcoholic, socially problematic son and accepting that is really the ONLY way we have any chance of any quality of life..wanting, ignoring, denying, closing our eyes and hoping it goes away doesn't work.I adore you Chicory..you are a good hearted woman, but until the acceptence and surrender come in I fear that nothing any of us say can penetrate through..I wish you happiness and peace..I hope you can do the work to find it..because you are worth it.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:34 PM
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I do feel ashamed that I am not doing what everyone says to do. to put him out.
you have nothing to be ashamed about.

Beth, I am from an alcoholic family, dad and mom both alcoholics. i went to aca group years ago, and found out that I was not weird, but that I became how I am in response to the alcoholics in my life. I would like to get some help. i need it. I think sometimes that I am going crazy, from the anger and sadness, and the fact that I have no choice- none but to put out a family member who has nothing.
You still have an alcoholic in your life.
It is possible for you to find out who you are...when not reacting to an alcoholic.
Please consider getting back to ACA.

Beth
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kassie2 View Post
(((chicory))) Not the same but I wish you had had parents to hold you in their arms. This is my hug to you tonight. To say that you are doing the best you can right now, and maybe tommorrow you can do more. If not, it is important to vent and receive the support of others - please give that gift to yourself.

And please let go of the shame - it is your life and your choices to make. PPl are just sharing what they would do - it is not a judgement on you.

And I am taking a leap here, give your anger to your HP, Your HP may not have given this to you, but is certainly there for you to lean on, to curse at, and to give thanks when you are able. Your HP is great enough to take whatever you have to say and still be there for you.
((((Kassie)))

Kassie, thank you for the heartfelt hug- that means a lot. I guess I am feeling pretty small right now.
And thank you for saying that about my HP. that he is great enough to take what ever I feel, without condemning me for it. It is scary to be angry at God, cause he can always make things worse , and heaven knows, I have this deeply ingrained thinking that I can control what God does, if I do such and such. pathetic, huh?

I am glad that these people have taken the time to read my post and to think about it, and to offer their help.
The hardest time to make change is when not much is happening, like drinking or fighting. I am so used to living in turmoil that when the dust settles, it makes me so happy, that there is no crisis. I know, there is a crisis, and I have to clear the paste out of my brain so that I can see clearly. that merely surviving is not enough. God forgive me for hurting my son, with my lack of power. I have been reading a book on power, and centers, and personal goals. but it never told me how to get the power, just that I should have it.

Thank you Kassie. love ya.now , i am going to enjoy that hug you sent me.
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