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Old 02-19-2011, 10:39 PM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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Chicory..I am not aDr. I cannot give medical advice.But I do work with kids with develomental delays.Lets just HYPOTHETICALLY say that your son has Aspergers..high functioning autism..high IQ..obsession with technology, poor peer relations.WHAt difference would it make?There are no drugs for it.Many.many MANY people with the disorder live functioning lives on their own.
You say he has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder by one therapist..again..many MANY people are living independently with this mental illness...lots who post on this site even.Another has diagnosed him with deppression..I myself have had clinical depression..I took the treatment and function on my own.
When my daughter was in rehab they told her to "play the tape out to the end" So..he has a treatable, manageable mental illness like millions of americans..so that means...what? He bears no responsibility for his health?no responsibility for his life? He has been offered NON addictive treatments, but doesn't want them..several Dr.'s accuse him of med shopping..THAT is addiction palin and simple.Beleive me when I got depressed enough I took what the dr. ordered.I had no "requests" for benzos or other meds that get you high.
I have regrets about how I raised my kids too..we all do..it's normal. You have made excuse after excuse for him.What if he capable of so much more?
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:57 AM
  # 42 (permalink)  
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Keepinon has expressed the crux of the problem very well. These are issues I have to struggle with too, with my two "mentally ill" children (son is bipolar, daugher has BPD).

In spite of the fact that they have these disorders, they still have to learn to live WITH them. My son has had treatment but chooses to not take any medications now. He knows that he really feels better if he does, but I suspect he'd rather drink and smoke weed. Gratefully, he's at least not mixing medications with these substances. He broke all the rules and got kicked out of our home. He lives with roommates and makes about $1000 a month hauling junk. Yesterday he called and said, "Mom, you gotta help me find another place to live! I hate these roommates and I can't take it anymore." I offered some suggestions (searching craigslist for new roommates, how much apartment he could qualify for, asking his DAD to possibly co-sign, etc.) and then basically wished him luck and said goodbye. I'm sure he thought I would go into full fix-it mode but I didn't . HE has to figure this out. HE might very well be realizing he needs more money and HE might figure out he needs to get back in school (we have $$ set aside for that). Or he may be learning some valuable lessons about how to co-exist with others. Who knows? He's had the experience of being homeless so I don't think he wants that again. He's seen he can't manipulate me into saving the day. Whatever solution he comes to will be his own and when it works out he will be PROUD of himself for getting it figured out. I am very hopeful. He's done it before and he can do it again. None of this would have been possible if we hadn't taken the painful step of kicking him out back when he was 19. If we hadn't done that he'd still be creating chaos in our home. Now whatever chaos he creates, it is his problem to solve.

Just sayin'....
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Old 02-20-2011, 10:53 AM
  # 43 (permalink)  
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and I've said it before and will say it again..my son at 19 thought the world owed him, the economy sucks, his generation has no chance, school is pointless, the government is gonna microchip us all....blahblahblah..he didn't want to go to school so I booted him..he couch surfed for a year..dug out of garbage cans (wish you could see the horror on my face)did odd jobs on Craigs list etc. before coming to the realization that it wasn't working out so well..he was also a daily heavy pot smoker which in my opinion robbed him of his ambition and worsened ..HIS DIAGNOSED DEPRESSION and ANXIETY for which he refused medication
Once i got in alanon I totally stopped trying to talk him out of his nutty ideas and let him figure it out..well guess what he has over 7 grand saved now and lives with roomates..he has even applied for trade school.Did I make this happen..NO.Did my getting out of his way and letting him experience the conseqences of his actions help him arrive at that decision..I think so.
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:41 PM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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Dear Chicory:

Thank you so much for sharing your story. Your son sounds so much like my brother - extremely intelligent, socially awkward, blaming everyone/everything for his problems, possible mental illness, unable to keep a job, and our parents were even divorced when he was eight!

He is in his early 40s and has not had a full-time job in 7+ years. One major difference is that he lives four hours away from me with a longtime girlfriend. They are not doing well and are in the process of losing their home.

My brother has not, however, turned to alcohol and drugs. I think the only thing that keeps him away from that is his determination to NEVER be like my father (who was an alcoholic).

I have spent a considerable amount of time worrying about him and wondering what I should do to help. This is part of my codependency that I'm still working on. It's hard. It is one of the things that lead me to the 12 steps.

I'm older than him and there's a part of me that feels responsible for his misfortune. I wonder if there was something that I could have done when we were younger. I wonder if our family was more "normal" would he have gotten the help that he obviously needs? I can not change the past.

When I feel helpless and have problems detaching, I turn things over to my HP and I pray. When I pray I try to send positive energy to him. I need to trust that things are working out exactly as they are suppose to. I remind myself that the best thing I can do for my brother is to continue to work on my own recovery.

The ESH on this thread has helped me. I'm grateful to all that have shared.

I'm also a mother. My children are young (8 & 10). I can only imagine how difficult this is for you.

Sending you strength.

db
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:29 PM
  # 45 (permalink)  
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Thank you all, for the thoughtful replies. I have a small plan, to go to social services and see what they have to say. I dont know where that will lead me, but it is at least forward movement.

I guess they might guide me to some help. I wonder if I should tell my son that he will be leaving, and give him a chance to do whatever he might (which will be nothing, as he will ignore it).

I sometimes imagine life on my own again, and it makes me hopeful for the moment.

You ladies have been very brave. How did you get the courage to do such a hard thing as to put them out? How did you find the strength to do it? why dont I have it? is this something that you got with recovery, and meetings and support here?

thanks again,
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:37 PM
  # 46 (permalink)  
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[QUOTE=dbh;

I'm older than him and there's a part of me that feels responsible for his misfortune. I wonder if there was something that I could have done when we were younger. I wonder if our family was more "normal" would he have gotten the help that he obviously needs? I can not change the past.

When I feel helpless and have problems detaching, I turn things over to my HP and I pray. When I pray I try to send positive energy to him. I need to trust that things are working out exactly as they are suppose to. I remind myself that the best thing I can do for my brother is to continue to work on my own recovery.


Sending you strength.

db[/QUOTE]
thanks dbh,

i am sorry for your brothers troubles. is he also refusing to get mental help? or evaluation? I hope things work out for him. i know it hurts you. And how would you know as a young person, what was going on with your brother? how do you know even now, if there is still something that he might do for his self, if things get really tough. perhaps he is leaning on gf like my son is leaning on me. dont blame yourself. these things are so complicated, it seems.

that is good advice tho, about praying and sending good energy to him. I like the saying that things are working exactly as they should be. and that the best thing is to take care of myself. at least that is something that I CAN do.

blessings to you and your children. and thank you.

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Old 02-20-2011, 06:24 PM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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when I realized that i was creating a monster, I did it out of love for my kids..
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:08 AM
  # 48 (permalink)  
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chicory,



It is good to get this all of your chest, but you can also drive yourself crazy with the paralysis by analysis. You canít change the past, you know it, but it seems like you canít get past it based on your responses. Your son and all his good qualities, this wonít change. His problems with alcohol/drugs, this wonít change unless you are ready to change. You are smothering him by ďwould of, could of, should ofĒ and basically trying to control something you canít control, his addiction. As I told you in earlier post, you sound just like my Mom regarding my sister, she would get lost in how sister was blowing her potential, how she is so much better than what she is doing instead of focusing on the real issue, her addiction. Iím a parent too and you just want to protect them from being hurt and you are still protecting your son, but there are two people getting hurt, you and your son. Your sonís addiction is causing your pain and you are hurting your son by feeding the addiction. You may not be putting the money in his hand to buy booze or drugs, but you are still supporting his addiction.



Again, you both are in my prayers, I hope you find the strength and direction you both need to move forward.
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:41 AM
  # 49 (permalink)  
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Chicory, I can't imagine having a child with addictions. It really is my greatest fear.

You can not undo the past or change anything about it. You can only do the right thing in this moment. Don't get mired down in the past, or paralized by the future what if's.

Do you have a feeling for what the right thing in this moment is? When I was struggling with making decisions I took in all the information etc. and did what I thought was the right thing logically, in my head, even if it felt bad emotionally. It was the only way I was able to move. Everything felt bad or wrong emotionally because there was no answer, no decision, that was going to make things 'right'. I had to quit looking at the end result in my fantasy and trying to get there, and just do what was right in the moment.

You don't have to plan the next week or month or year. You don't have to know how they will play out. You do the right thing in this moment and you'll make a decision for next month when that moment gets here.
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:08 PM
  # 50 (permalink)  
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Thank you for the wonderful support. I have been so afraid for so long. The fear just immobilizes me.
I can't believe how hard it is, to let go of the past. To accept that mistakes were made, that made this so bad. Maybe it is not all my fault. But like Keepinon, I made a monster. I let him be selfish. But you know, his dad is one of the most selfish people i ever knew, so maybe some of it is heredity?

Ok, I have so much work to do. It helps to know Thumper, that sometimes the right thing in your logical mind does not feel good to the emotional mind. So you cant wait for it to feel right. it is gonna feel bad.

a post somewhere here, on another thread, said that many people thrown out just get lost and never seen again, and family do not know if they are dead or alive. I am hoping that is not the norm, i would think not. unless the homeless person was severely mentally challenged, which my s is not. selfish, yes.

another interesting post i read, was about perhaps whether one thing a's have in common is being selfish! My mom, who was an a, was one of the most self-centered people i ever knew. and my son is also. interesting , as I always thought this about a's myself(no offense to any recovering a's, just an honest observation )

I called social services, the community health place and made an appt for counselling. it is a few weeks out, but she also gave me a number to find an alanon meeting. i think there may be one in the local hospital,and i am excited to find out. i hope it isn't just an aa meeting. gonna look on the al-anon website too.

This moment, the right thing is not to get into a fight because i smell the stale alcohol coming across the hall. detach. make a plan, for today, but have a goal. of cutting him loose. he cant do it his self. i appreciate the prayers and the thoughts and the advice. it really helps.

this is the hardest thing in my life. how did i get here? i became the opposite of my mom, but she had more luck with her kids being independent. she did not have the sobriety to help us. but oh my gosh, the mess that being aca's made of her children!

i remember a particular time when i was not independent, and I was frightened that I could not make it, with three kids alone, but when i had to, i did it . and I know that i would today, as well. it is all a matter of necessity, I guess.

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Old 02-21-2011, 02:02 PM
  # 51 (permalink)  
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I was so glad to read you story. It sounds exactly like mine. I believe a lot in prayer. I will be praying for both of us. Thank you for sharing
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Old 02-21-2011, 02:11 PM
  # 52 (permalink)  
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Hi dsorg. to SoberRecovery. I hope that you will take the time to post a new thread of your own and introduce yourself. Here you will find support and friendship.
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Old 02-21-2011, 02:37 PM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dsorg View Post
I was so glad to read you story. It sounds exactly like mine. I believe a lot in prayer. I will be praying for both of us. Thank you for sharing
Hello dsorg, and welcome to a great place. You will find wonderful support here.

I was worried about posting that story, but I am glad I did if you got something from it. There are a lot of folks here that were in similar situations, and they have been so helpful to me, and they will be for you too.

I will pray for you and your family, too.

Someone posted the other day that God is big enough to handle me being angry, and that He is still there for me, no matter how I am feeling. I am glad, cause I still am angry, and I feel like I need to acknowledge that anger too (by expressing it),at the same time trying to move forward in MY recovery.

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Old 02-21-2011, 03:04 PM
  # 54 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chicory View Post
i am sorry for your brothers troubles. is he also refusing to get mental help? or evaluation? I hope things work out for him. i know it hurts you. And how would you know as a young person, what was going on with your brother? how do you know even now, if there is still something that he might do for his self, if things get really tough. perhaps he is leaning on gf like my son is leaning on me. dont blame yourself. these things are so complicated, it seems.
Thank you Chicory!

My brother was hospitalized and evaluated in 2009. I remember being so grateful at the time, thinking that he was finally getting help. He was in the hospital for a week and put on medication. He doesn't have insurance, but he is able to see a councilor at a county run clinic a couple times a month.

My family of origin (FOO) is still extremely dysfunctional. None of us actually know what he was diagnosed with. He didn't tell us and we didn't ask (typical for my family). I think my mother is still in denial and doesn't truly comprehend the magnitude of his problems. She thinks he just needs to "snap out of it" and get a job.

For the longest time, I thought his problems were strictly from being an ACA. Now I believe that he is struggling with a more severe mental illness. I started obsessing about his life again shortly after he was discharged from the hospital. When I thought he was "just" an ACA it was easier for me to detach. Knowing that he has a mental illness triggers my codependency. I kept trying to rally my mother and sister, "We HAVE to help him!" But my mother stood firm in her believe that he is an adult and needs to solve his problems on his own. I'm sort of thinking there must be someplace in between not solving his problems and not ignoring they exist.

Currently, he's not communicating regularly anyone in our family. But he seems like now he is able to use his "mental illness" as yet another excuse for why he can't function in society.

It is true though that many people live and function with mental illness. People learn to live with a huge number of challenges in life. Guess the key is accepting where you're at and figuring out a path from there.

I really can't tell my brother what he should be doing. It's his life and it's up to him to create the life that he wants.

You know, I should take my own advice :-)

Stay strong!

db
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Old 02-21-2011, 03:22 PM
  # 55 (permalink)  
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He is still there for me, no matter how I am feeling.
Yes, chicory He is. I am struggling with the "God" concept, maybe because I have been scratching the surface of being an adult child of an alcoholic.
I have been afraid of an angry judgmental god, just like the one from my childhood.
When I was in rehab a priest explained something about the God of his understanding.
His God has already forgiven us, all of us.
Any mistakes we have made, any anger we possess, we confess to Him (take responsibility) and move on.
After the priest told me this (not to worry about God, He forgives), I felt calm and serene. I strive for that moment of peace now, and I forget.
Thank you very much for sharing your story, it reminded me that I have been forgiven, and I can let go.

Beth

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Old 02-21-2011, 03:55 PM
  # 56 (permalink)  
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I understand that struggle, from being an aca. I was a forgotten child really. my parents hardly dealt with us, due to their chaotic lives, and i realize that I often think that i do not matter to God either. I am a loner really, even tho I love being with my children. And when I pray, I feel so alone sometimes, mostly when I am having the hardest times. I guess that is when I wish God would just start talking out loud to me, and tell me that He has my back on this one-lol.
Faith is a beautiful thing. Someday we will see clearly, but now, for whatever reason, I believe my HP is trying to teach me something. like when I feel hopeless, and He leads me to a group like this one, that is filling a need that no one else can right now. I love you guys!

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Old 02-21-2011, 04:04 PM
  # 57 (permalink)  
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I guess that is when I wish God would just start talking out loud to me, and tell me that He has my back on this one-lol.
Oh yeah, I figured when that priest talked to me, and I was open to it (given my childhood religion) that was my message from God.

Also, as soon I as read your sentence above, I thought of:

"Be still and know that I am God."

(sorry cant quote the chapter and verse )

Beth
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:26 PM
  # 58 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by wicked View Post
Oh yeah, I figured when that priest talked to me, and I was open to it (given my childhood religion) that was my message from God.

Also, as soon I as read your sentence above, I thought of:

"Be still and know that I am God."

(sorry cant quote the chapter and verse )

Beth
You do fine, Beth. You get the quote right, anyway

as kids, we listened to Billy Graham (when we stayed with my grandma, and she would have us put our hands on the tv and pray (she was a Tennessee girl). her faith saved me, for without my faith,well, I dont want to even think about that....

you know, that man is still living,and I really do admire him.
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:11 PM
  # 59 (permalink)  
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Maybe God is acting through each one of us as we reach out to help and Love one another. Maybe, Chicory, this IS God talking to you...out loud.

(((Hugs)))
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:26 PM
  # 60 (permalink)  
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I often think that i do not matter to God either.
I also just figured this out about myself, here on SR just this past week.
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