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Old 02-18-2011, 10:05 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by keepinon View Post
Alanon helped me with MY pity party...why me? I have done so much to avoid this, raised her right, educated her, given her help at every turn..well ..why NOT me? We ALL have our problems.. but I didn't WANT this! Well as Dr. Drew just flat out told someone in rehab...you don't get that.I get an addict daughter and you get an alcoholic, socially problematic son and accepting that is really the ONLY way we have any chance of any quality of life..wanting, ignoring, denying, closing our eyes and hoping it goes away doesn't work.I adore you Chicory..you are a good hearted woman, but until the acceptence and surrender come in I fear that nothing any of us say can penetrate through..I wish you happiness and peace..I hope you can do the work to find it..because you are worth it.
Keepinon,

I am trying, I promise you that I am. What you said, about acceptance and surrender- that is maybe something that I am fighting. It is so hard to accept. Yes, I am in a pity party state of mind. I do pity myself, and my son. I hate alcohol! I just think that it is the worst thing to happen to mankind, and it plain destroys families, children, homes, health. It is so damned unfair, that a liquid poured down a throat can just ruin your life for 58 freaking years.
Robs you of the chance to develop the brain in some of the wonderful ways that are possible.

I guess I had better meditate on acceptance. why , even thinking deeply is hard for me. I was trained to put the mind on hold- dont think - wait for the crisis to pass. I freeze, I wish I was stronger.

enough self pity. I think I get what you are saying. I got what I got, and I have to take my head out of the sand. soon.


thank you Keepinon,
love ya,
chicory
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:01 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Chicory, did you perchance read Buffalo's post? Good stuff here:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-own-self.html
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Old 02-19-2011, 04:12 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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(((Chicory))) I'm sorry you are so tired and down!

I second what L2L posted above. Buffalo66 had a good conversation with a friend of her AH's family, a counselor, too, I believe.

As long as you continue to provide your son with a safety net, he will never hit bottom. As long as you refuse to let go and turn him over to his HP, his HP's can never really take care of him.
As long as you continue to feel as though you have to personally "keep all the balls in the air", you are going to be exhausted, depressed, and sad.

Your pain will end when you decide, chicory, that is your power!!!

Huge hugs and many prayers for you and your son. HG
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Old 02-19-2011, 05:27 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Quote :"It is scary to be mad at God because he can always make things worse"

(((C))) I don't believe HP makes things worse - ppl do things and situations happen. HP is there to give the hugs and kiss the bo-bo's and clean up the scrapes etc. HP also gently send reminders of the answers of what we already know to do. Bad things happen because ppl make choices to some things or not do other things some of the time, but that is just like when I let go of something in my hand the law of gravity draws it to the ground. I don't say that my HP made it fall - it is just what happens so I can either hold on tight and get tired/ unable to do other things or I can safely put it down and go about my business knowing I did what I could.
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Old 02-19-2011, 06:28 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
Chicory, did you perchance read Buffalo's post? Good stuff here:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-own-self.html
That was an awesome post.

You know, I just want to protect someone who is one of my greatest treasures.
Fact is , I am hurting him.

Guess it's a good think that no one else is willing to take the baton.

I liked the ladder analogy - that he is standing on the rung of a ladder that I am holding, and choosing not to climb, and yet blaming me and everyone else, that he is not getting up the ladder.

That perfectly describes it.

thank you l2l, love ya,
chicory
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Old 02-19-2011, 07:14 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."


What would happen to him if you 'disappeared' tomorrow?

Has he been evaluated and diagnosed as mentally ill in some way?

If so, has he been declared disabled?

If not, then it's probably time to let him go.
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Old 02-19-2011, 07:21 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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If you work your program Chicory you will get better. Your focus is still on him and you're still very emotionally involved. Working steps 1 and 2 will get you VERY far. Practicing Detachment, disciplining your mind to get and stay in the Present Moment, and learning to Let Go and Let God will help you immensely. Just as the alcoholic chooses to continue to drink and refuses to work a program, you choose to continue to try to control, remain wrapped up in his problems and miserable from the effects of your booze. Until you are ready to make a change, your life will continue to be this way. (((hugs)))
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Old 02-19-2011, 07:30 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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You know, I just want to protect someone who is one of my greatest treasures.
I'm sticking my neck out here because I care about you and want to help, so please pardon me if my opinions offend anyone.

Chicory, really, he is not yours and he was not placed on this earth to be your treasure. You are using him for your own selfish purposes and that is not good. You are not protecting him. You are hurting him.
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Old 02-19-2011, 08:02 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
Chicory, really, he is not yours and he was not placed on this earth to be your treasure.
Agreed. He has his own path to take.

We all experience pain in our lives. It helps us to grow by overcoming our problems. If someone fixes them FOR us, we never grow and never experience the personal satisfaction of self-reliance.

I'd like to spare my kids pain in their lives, too--who wouldn't? But I can't protect them from heartbreak and tragedy. They have to learn to work through those feelings, themselves.

I avoided uncomfortable feelings for YEARS by numbing out with alcohol. And it felt totally overwhelming at first to cope with them without booze. But it was only by working through the pain that I learned it will not kill me. I am much, much happier today--painful feelings and all--than I was when I was drinking them away.
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Old 02-19-2011, 08:16 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Chickory, I just want to offer you hugs. I know you might feel cornered by your circumstances, but you have gotten wonderful advice here. I really like Learn2Live's insight about our children--it's true.

I always try to live by Kahlil Gibran's words "On Children":

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

My brother-in-law sounds a little like your son... seems to be unmotivated, just a little unable to form the connections that will get him out into the world in a positive way, but otherwise is a good guy, funny, nice.

But my MIL constantly did for him--paid for everything, paid his car loan, bought his food (and when he went to the supermarket he bought without one bit of consideration that this was his mother's Social Security money he was spending so frivolously).

Now she's gone, and he's going through a tough adjustment--NOW he's looking at prices of things, and figuring out how to pay his bills. He's pretty shell shocked, but he's doing it.

Please try to see that doing for our children stops being a blessing when it stunts their growth.

Hope you're feeling less hopeless today, Chickory!
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Old 02-19-2011, 08:36 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Chicory, as a Mother it goes against our instinct to let go of a child. Not to stop loving that child but to save the child. Whether your sons problem is alcohol or mental illness. Both can be addressed in rehab. He has problems. You have problems. A solution has to be found to save both Mother and child. Since you are the stronger one, it's up to you .

Please go to your local Social Services and see what they have to offer. Whether it be an evaluation for mental illness or alcohol dependency. You need to try something different in order to change this situation. I would exhaust every possibility before living the way you are. I know your tired, I know your losing faith. Sometimes God gives you these burdens to make you wake up and help yourself.

There will never be a change until you make it. Gather your strength and do what you need to do . You'll be so relieved. There are millions of people who use Social Services to help them in time of need. Make an appointment. Go to the appointment. Listen, get answers and proceed from there. At least get their advice in person. Not a phone call.

I wish you the very best. :ghug3
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Old 02-19-2011, 10:08 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Here's how it can feel to the person with the substance abuse problem: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-my-life.html
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:34 PM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by tjp613 View Post
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."


What would happen to him if you 'disappeared' tomorrow?

Has he been evaluated and diagnosed as mentally ill in some way?

If so, has he been declared disabled?

If not, then it's probably time to let him go.
Tjp,
I tell myself that a lot- that I could die, and whatever happens would happen. no one is going to take him in and he would probably do ok, eventually.
he has been evaluated, and the first said, bipolar 2 and the next said, situational depression. he hoped for meds for his nerves (which he would most likely have abused). but that does not mean he does not need them.

i tell him that if he gets to a doc about his nerves, they may be able to help him with some meds. he wants it his way, he has an idea of the meds that he would "approve of" he thinks he is as smart as a doctor (i am sure that he is well educated in drugs) but he wont go. i tell him that if he really has an anxiety disorder, he could get disability and help. he is stubborn and wont accept that idea either.

when i have gotten him to a doctor, they note that he has the idea of what meds will help, and they most likely think he is a drug seeker. if he is miserable, i am sure that he wants what will make him feel good, but he wont admit that he is a potential abuser, and they see that, i am sure. if he wanted help badly enough, he would try anything. that is why i am giving up on helping in that area.

my doctor told me that he probably needs meds, but he may come across as a med seeker. i get so frustrated, but i cannot try tofix this for him anymore. there is a free clinic, but he wont do the work to get in there. he could bike there, it is close. but he just wont do the work, he cant deal with red tape, or paper work, etc. i know there is a problem. but as l2l said last night, there are people who give a sh--, but it is his place to find them.
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:42 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
I'm sticking my neck out here because I care about you and want to help, so please pardon me if my opinions offend anyone.

Chicory, really, he is not yours and he was not placed on this earth to be your treasure. You are using him for your own selfish purposes and that is not good. You are not protecting him. You are hurting him.
L2Lr I have to defend myself here. I know he is not mine, and by treasure, I mean that I love my kids a lot,and they are the best thing that ever happened to me. ( I think)

I am not using him for any selfish reason, i am just taking care of a person who needs to learn to do it his self, and I dont have much faith that he can do it.
I truly wish he was happy and in Canada somewhere......

I agree with everything else you said. i am hurting him and not protecting him. I have a big heart and would help anyone I could . but I am learning that helping is not always helping. i do it in most areas of my life. i have to remind myself not to try to fix peoples problems anymore. i am learning, just as a child who does not know how to walk yet and i am 59 years old.
coming from a big caretaking family, i have always been too enmeshed with my kids. an early life of poverty and fear of the future makes you want to help your kids. no one taught me to stand on my own, or how to parent. it is foreign, to let go, and let them suffer. but i know that I messed up there.

hugs
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:48 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by SoloMio View Post
Chickory, I just want to offer you hugs. I know you might feel cornered by your circumstances, but you have gotten wonderful advice here. I really like Learn2Live's insight about our children--it's true.

I always try to live by Kahlil Gibran's words "On Children":
beautiful poem , thank you SoloMio

Please try to see that doing for our children stops being a blessing when it stunts their growth.
I see that this is true.

Hope you're feeling less hopeless today, Chickory!

You guys always give me hope. But I do think I am going to need some help in getting him out, whether finding an alanon, or going to some counselling, if i can find the right place. bad counsel is worse than no counsel.
love you all.
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by opivotal View Post
Chicory, as a Mother it goes against our instinct to let go of a child. Not to stop loving that child but to save the child. Whether your sons problem is alcohol or mental illness. Both can be addressed in rehab. He has problems. You have problems. A solution has to be found to save both Mother and child. Since you are the stronger one, it's up to you .

Please go to your local Social Services and see what they have to offer. Whether it be an evaluation for mental illness or alcohol dependency. You need to try something different in order to change this situation. I would exhaust every possibility before living the way you are. I know your tired, I know your losing faith.


Sometimes God gives you these burdens to make you wake up and help yourself.
God knows that I need help as well as my son.


There will never be a change until you make it. Gather your strength and do what you need to do . You'll be so relieved. There are millions of people who use Social Services to help them in time of need. Make an appointment. Go to the appointment. Listen, get answers and proceed from there. At least get their advice in person. Not a phone call.

I wish you the very best. :ghug3
Thank you so much Opivotal- i will do this. I will call and see if I can get an appointment on Monday. Thank you , thank you , thank you.

love, chicory
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Old 02-19-2011, 03:53 PM
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just wanted to say that it's ok to feel mad and pissed off about the situation..but when we don't move on to the next level THEN its a problem..An Alanon friend once told me I had finally moved "from the level of the problem (me feeling very victimized and trying to figure out WHY this had happened) to the level of the solution (acceptance, working my program, doing what needed to be done).
Also..on Oprah yesterday there had on a mother of a 10 year old boy who had MASSIVE mental health disorders...he tried to lkill his mother..she said the one thing that SHE changed throughout this whole experience was that she doesn't worry anymore about her son..FOR HIM..she said the negative energy that he would receive when she would feel he would fail, couldn't do it, etc. was detrimental to him.My sponsor had said that to me as well..everytime I thought..she's gonna die, she won't make it..I put that energy out to her.I started making a concious decision to change my thoughts...she can recover..she is strong and can find help when she wants it, etc. I started telling her that when I would see her.I know it wasn't some magical cure, but I do think the messages we send both verbally and energetically have lots of power..how would you feel if no one thought you could do the most basic tasks..get told that or sent that message enough and you come to believe it....
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Old 02-19-2011, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by keepinon;[QUOTE
.I know it wasn't some magical cure, but I do think the messages we send both verbally and energetically have lots of power..how would you feel if no one thought you could do the most basic tasks..get told that or sent that message enough and you come to believe it....
[/QUOTE]


Keepinon- that is BIG! The messages we send absolutely affect them.

Personally, I feel that a lot of his problems are due to the messages that I and his dad gave him during his life. Boy, I could surely take a horsewhipping over that. I have to take responsibility for it, tho it hurts very very much.

He had some behaviors that we just did not seek help for- stupid of us- tho it was ignorance. we thought it was due to his high I Q that they told us he had as a young kid. we thought he was just "different cause he thought on a higher plane than we did. and we divorced when he was 8 years old. then, his dad had very little time for him, and it was hard for me to handle him, and I let him do a lot of things he wanted to do. just cause he was so difficult. i did not try to teach him the hard lessons that he needed. single mom, with three kids, working full time, and i just did not know much about what kids need, other than love , hugs, laughter, etc.

son wanted to do the things he enjoyed, and went with best friend a lot. the family loved that cause their son was a difficult only child, and he had a high IQ and boy the things they thought up and got in some trouble for!

it was easier to let him have his way than to argue with him, and he could argue till the cows came home. would not give up. he was the oldest and the girls were much easier . so during summer, he would go on vacation with this family, they did a lot of things I could not afford, and it seemed good for my son, but i guess he did not learn that he was a needed member of our family. he thought that his wants were to be honored, and he always presented a good case. he always said, why not, why should i stay home, if it is no trouble? who was I to deny him things that I could not give him. (my parents were not parents. mom was mean, and smacked me to look at me, and I wanted my kids to love me and to be happy) guilt made me give in a lot.

then as a teen when he would not want to keep a job cause it was boring, i let him off the hook. he went with his friends and i was happy that he had other friends finally. he would badger me till he got his way, and i couldnot find the power to say no. he hated to do tedious things, and hated to go camping, etc. always took a book and read. loved tolkien, and fantasy books.


he played so much dungeons and dragons i was worried. it seemed to be not so good for anyone to be so wrapped in a game, with his friends. then he loved his computer and was on it all the time. he did not want to be with family much, at get togethers, for he had more fun things to do and i did not make him.

after grad. he began college and stayed up all night in computer lab. also , did not have books for classes and did not let us all know, so dropped out of college when he could not study. it hurts to know this. i failed him there. none of my family had gone to college, and I was ignorant of how it is done.

then he took off for a year with friends, and traveled. i did not hear from him for 9 months, and worried sick. could not sleep. did not know if he was allive or not. then, he came back and since then lived with one friend or another, and barely got by or ate, but lived on computer. He did have a few jobs, tried to start a business with friends spent a lot of time doing that and it was a pipe dream. then, over time as he and friends had to move out of apts they could not pay for, he had to live with family. first his sister, then me, then another friend, and then me again. then he began drinking. i know that all the time with friends, he was smoking weed and who knows what else, when they went clubbing.

he had a girl for three years, off and on. first serious girl but i never, ever met her! saw a picture, saw her clothes at his place, but he never wanted us to meet. he seemed reluctant, and private, and he said that she was a bit punk, and did not really want to meet us. i think they were mostly party oriented. he lost a job, to go to airport to get her, when he had to call off. she could have taken a taxi, but he wanted to be the good guy. he just wouldn;t say no to her. he had to be her knight in shining armor. his drinking got bad, and they broke up; she would call when she needed something. when she had a stalker, or an old boyfriend bothered her. i wonder if she was not quite right in some way, and he didnt think it wise to introduce us. he was broken for a long time after she moved away back home. he held on forever. and drank more and more. she was so pretty and yet he never mentioned marriage.

now, he sees what he has lost out on, family, home, etc, and it hurts him. he feels none of it is his fault, but societies. the economy. in some ways maybe , but not entirely.he seems to have lived in another world.thought his computer knowledge was going to bring him fortune and the perfect job, and refused to go to school for it, saying he knew more than most grads, and that a degree did not mean anything. well, that was wrong. but he would NOT admit it. now , he is angry and disappointed that the jobs are not there for him. Heck, I still think he could find a good job, if he would just listen to the advice that he has gotten, but he knows better. he does not want to take the time to do all that leg work. well, wrong thinking. i wonder if now he is just afraid to try.

he can be a very kind person and always listened to me, and my problems, and works very hard, when he works. he is a people pleaser, on the job, but he wont listen to how to do things, cause he is embarrassed for people to think he does not know how to do something. you don't learn much that way.
sorry for the book, but i was hoping that maybe someone out there will say, hey, i know what is wrong with him and he needs xyz. i kept him from growing up,by not giving him the experiences he needed .

i know that he needs to believe in his self, and to do that, he needs to try , and fail and succeed. on his own. i feel quite responsible for a lot of his troubles. i hope that someday he will be self sufficient . and that someday, we will be able to heal our relationship.

thank you for reading this. I know that it should be about me, and my healing. but i wanted to talk about it. i know i cant fix him.

thank you for being here. to let me share, before I lose all my marbles. it has been so hard, the past year or three. I look forward to getting help. Hopefully social services can guide me. I feel kind of silly for writing all this, but I am going to post it, to share some of my life ,, and a bit of why i feel so responsible for some of his problems.

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chicory
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Old 02-19-2011, 06:45 PM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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I know you feel guilty about the past. About the things you wish you would have done differently with him. I feel the same way and my kids aren't even grown up yet.

The thing is, you can't change it. The past is over and done and there is nothing you can do today to make up for it or make it right. I'm not saying it's good or bad, right or wrong, it's just over. The worst thing you can do is continue the behaviors that led to the current situation. It appears that's exactly what is happening.

You have no power over the past. You can only change the present.

L
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Old 02-19-2011, 07:06 PM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa View Post
I know you feel guilty about the past. About the things you wish you would have done differently with him. I feel the same way and my kids aren't even grown up yet.

The thing is, you can't change it. The past is over and done and there is nothing you can do today to make up for it or make it right. I'm not saying it's good or bad, right or wrong, it's just over. The worst thing you can do is continue the behaviors that led to the current situation.
It appears that's exactly what is happening.
You have no power over the past. You can only change the present.

L
You are so right. Thank you,
chicory
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