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Old 10-09-2010, 05:08 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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FWIW
When I first went to counseling a long time ago...one of my first excercises was to get in touch with my anger...I was encouraged to yell, cuss, scream and vent....but to do it where I was ALONE
I went out in the woods near my house..called trees everything in the book and threw rocks at them.
(Later I worked on a farm..got tons of eggs and threw eggs at trees SPLAT..what fun!)
So,my point is that it can be appropriate to express anger...we just need to learn to do it appropriately..
I needed to get rid of alot of long bottled up stuff and that is how I went about it.
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Old 10-09-2010, 05:23 PM
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That is amazing, that one quarter of people have a mental disorder. I believe it tho. Who is to say what normal is???

acdirito, he is usually in a bad mod on weekends, when all his friends on computer are partying, and having fun. he cant feel fun and witty without the alcohol, i think.
I see a pattern, but it is a pattern that makes sense. llike on weekends, when people party, and when he has been cooped up, with no one to be with. that is pretty normal, i think, but his tendency to take it out on me is the sick part. His dad was a lot like him, and his dad is remarried and several states away. I feel that he married a very overbearing woman, who controls his life, and he uses her as an excuse not to be involved more than a phone support. he has always abeen very selfish with his time, even to not coming up to see a new grandbaby, excuse being, he is so busy, or his wife is busy. he is retired, and goes out with his metal detector all the time. they also come up this way to see HER kids. so, he is just an a--h---. and my son is sooooo much like that.
the psychologist said that he has situational depression. another said bipolar, but that does not fit him. he has normal reactionary bad moods. tho there is no excuse for his behavior, it seems to have a cause, and not just a whim bad mood.

as to moving out- when mys on lived with me two years ago, i had to move out, not telling him where I was going. he actually stayed there, until the landlord had to threaten him, to get him out. son said things like "they have to give me 30 days, till i have to go". he was being a jerk, but i could see that he was just frozen in fear, as he had no job and no where to go. he just stayed in his room, and was on computer , till internet was turned off. then he took off in his car, and lived in parking lots. and then got a ticket for a bit of pot, and an open container, in his fridge (back of car). he went to shelter, and called me often, and finally stopped blaming me, and admitted that he was a jerk. did not ask me for anything. he was becomming human again, tho he was living in a very bad part of town. I could not sleep at night, til i knew that he had gone back to the shelter each night.

I wonder if i have ptsd? from my childhood?
there were many scary times, which impacted me.
maybe that is why i fear for my son so much?
why i have to know he is safe all the time.
why i think about him and wonder if he is depressed enough to commit suicide sometimes.
when i mention that to him, he just cant believe that i would think it! he says that i am traumatized by my childhood, and that is why i am predjudiced against relaxation drinking. he did more than relaxation driinking when he lived with me, but he blames his depressed situation for that one! he has a quick excuse for everything.

Thanks l2l, I am gonna go.

tjp- his dad is several states away. they offered to let him come sand stay , to get a job, if he would follow a few requests.
1. not drink
2. go to bed at 11pm, and not stay up all night on computer like he has always done.
3. that he would spend his days looking for work.

he refused saying it was rediculous to be treated like a child. I was very dissappointed, to say the least.
his step mom has a zero tolerance for any faults in my children. hers were always allowed to steal from her, drink underage, etc. she also was convicted of theft, embezzelment from her work, and had to go to a womans treatment place, kind of like jail, but not. she likes to be very bossy, and calls me stupid, when she can. she has been a thorn in my side forever. i dont blame her tho, for her rules. she has every right to expect those things from him. at 38 it may be silly to expect him in bed by 11pm. they knew he would refuse those terms. that is how they are.

thanks wicked- yep, i am nothing if i am not resilient!

L2L, i want that happy ending!
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Old 10-09-2010, 05:32 PM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Live,
That had to feel good!
I have trouble feeling stuff. I always have a sense of impending doom, waiting for something bad. which can happen at any time in life, but why do i have to ruin peace, with worry.
i worry about my grandbabies too. drive the girls crazy. but i am working on that too.
i just always thought it was ok to give advice, my grandma did, and it never made me mad. but since my girls get angry when i do it, i must be overstepping boundaries, and they dont realize that I do not realize that it is wrong to try to "help".
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Old 10-09-2010, 05:50 PM
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Chicory..I also want you to have a happy ending. I think alanon is AWESOME .It helps me so much. But, the issue I have is when people say to lay the boundaries out..you have.. he has run over every boundary you have ever had. I don't think he is gonna start following rules and respecting boundaries at this point. I think that is where you may be stuck..hoping he's going to suddenly see how much you do for him and "get it". That is most likely not going to happen. Believe me, i thought that too. It's amazing what a little time on the streets can do for motivation. As a mom of course you want him safe.I wanted that for my AD too, but she wasn't safe and nothing I did could make her safe. His life sounds so sad, I am 40..depending on my mom to supply me with a home, food, clothing, etc. at this point in my life would be so demeaning. There is something to earning your keep, being on your own. My 21 year old a few years ago didn't want to work and preferred to smoke pot all day. Thats fine..not in my house with me paying the bills. He has been diagnosed with depression and anxiety, but would not take his meds. I made him leave. He now works 2 jobs, has his own apartment, still smokes pot sometimes, plays video games whenever he wants. He lives his life the way he want..but he has to pay for it. Is it the life I dreamed for him..no. But he is living it and is self suffiecient. Do you think I should have let him stay here? It was hard, I cried and felt guilty, but guess what..I got over that. It can be done..I've done it with both of mine and it turned out in both cases to be the best thing I could have done for me AND them.
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Old 10-09-2010, 06:04 PM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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thank you Keepinon.
I hope that I can get the courage and strength to do what is right for him. it is hard as you know, to put them out, with no where to go. no friends, no money, no license, a car that has expired plates. no friends who will even return his calls. there is one shelter here in town, and i guess he would go there before he would sleep in the alley.
for someone with the fears i have, this is so very hard, but yes, it breaks my heart that he has nothing to feel like he is accomplishing. i have detached from doing other things for him. like making appts. and calls, and giving advice.
it is so hard. but like someone said, gotta be cruel to be kind. I dont know where i am gonna get the strength.
i dont expect him to change. not with the help i have given, or anything i can do.
i dont even expect it to work out if he does get a job. he will probably drink again, and abuse it, and call off and lose his job again. i feel that will be the reality. i am giving him the chance to save money to get his own place. i guess i will know pretty soon if he is gonna do that.

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Old 10-10-2010, 06:10 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chicory View Post
thank you Keepinon.
I hope that I can get the courage and strength to do what is right for him. it is hard as you know, to put them out, with no where to go.
tjp- his dad is several states away. they offered to let him come sand stay , to get a job, if he would follow a few requests.
1. not drink
2. go to bed at 11pm, and not stay up all night on computer like he has always done.
3. that he would spend his days looking for work.

he refused saying it was rediculous to be treated like a child. I was very dissappointed, to say the least.
Ah HA!! But he DOES have somewhere to go!! He can go to his father's...as long a he abides by the rules! You are NOT his only option after all!

How badly do you want your serenity? I think you want it very badly. I think you want it more than anything.

(((((((HUGS)))))))))
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Old 10-10-2010, 09:22 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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another choice would be to DEAL with his addiction/deppression/mental health issues leading to..governmnet assistence or an improvement to the point where he could live on his own. Lots of people also rent out rooms. Admitting to a drinking problem could gain entrance to a state funded rehab or sober living.
Now, I am sure none of these are his ideal. Oh well. He hasn't done one thing to help himself.There ARE options other than the street but he would have to (gasp) DO SOMETHING and start TAKING RESPONSIBILIY. Too bad if you don't want to have a mental illness..you do.Deal with it. It's life. We ALL have our difficulties to overcome. Believe me..people with mental illnesses can function in society. But they need to be active in their own treatment.
One thing that really helped me was my AD's therapist from rehab..they told me..you aren't kicking her out..she is CHOOSING to not follow the rules and therby CHOOSING the consequences. We ALL make choices every day. You have given over a bazillion chances. He CHOOSES not to respect your boundaries, CHOOSES not to get help for his depression, CHOOSES to continue self destructive behaviors. He shows you his choices over and over. If nothing changes,nothing changes.
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Old 10-10-2010, 10:05 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Ah HA!! But he DOES have somewhere to go!! He can go to his father's...as long a he abides by the rules! You are NOT his only option after all!
yeah, the took back the offer when I begged them to let him come. step-mother said" over her dead body, would she let him come there. she says she is "protecting" his dad. baloney- I asked her what if son had no where and he was mentally ill and could not function at all, would she help or just let him rot in the streets? she just said "whatever".
she always made trouble for my kids.

not that she is in any way responsible for my son.

How badly do you want your serenity? I think you want it very badly. I think you want it more than anything.
Oh, I want it soooo badly. I do not love myself more than my son, and i would die today if it promised him a happy life. but that is not an option here. i either jump or go down with the ship. I wish i could remember a little tale about someone who would not climb into the life boat-

thanks all,
i am just feeling very uneasy. it is so weird to admit that my son may just never be ok, and I have to let go, in order to see if he will be ok.

he might be ok, and i am keeping him from learning to do it. but at 38 isnt it hopeless?
i know that is wrong to say, but he has quite a system of denial in place, and it is a fortress.and Keepinon, you are so right- he is choosing , and he is probably calling my bluff really. he will probably toss me a shred of hope if he sees that he has to go.

has anyone here actually set their adult child out of the house, with no car, no friends, no money, no where to go, and just locked the door? did that ever happen to anyone here. did you just watch them walk away, or did they camp on the lawn until neighbors complained?

he literally has no one- not one person will answer a call from him. they know he would just want to mooch their pot. he once told me that if he had pot for his nerves, he would never want to drink. he says he has anxiety and nerves that bother him terribly.
he always did pace the floor as a teenager. he bit his nails, was so restless he would not sit and have a visit for long. he found relief on games online and chats with friends.
he has not learned to fit intothe world. he is a geek, very smart about a lot of things. and able to come up with excuses for everything, in a flash.

it is funny, but he hates the "red-neck "mentality of our town. we are not from here, and he says there is no one to be friends with. he feels so very much smarter and more caring and informed. he has spent most of his life on the computer, easily most of it.

hugs, and sorry this is a volume again.
i will try to keep it about my recovery,

hugs
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Old 10-10-2010, 10:21 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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There are treatments far more effective than pot, but he refuses to avail himself of them.

Chicory, you could read a whole bunch of stories about parents who have kicked out their adult children, and some would have happy endings and some would not. There are no crystal balls and no guarantees.

His life with you isn't what most people would consider "living". It isn't like he is happy and healthy now. You have two miserable people, chained together by one person's refusal to get help for himself. How likely is it that he will get well by continuing on this way? If you kick him out, MAYBE things will get more unpleasant for him for awhile, but he at least has some motivation to change his life, which is something he doesn't have now. It may be his only shot at getting help for himself.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:38 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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If you kick him out, MAYBE things will get more unpleasant for him for awhile, but he at least has some motivation to change his life, which is something he doesn't have now. It may be his only shot at getting help for himself.
Lexie,
this makes me so very scared. Why does this have to be on me? the person who loves him more than anyone in the world? I picture it- shutting the door, after some big men "encourage " him to go (he wont listen to me tell him to go), and then watching him walk with his pack on his back, without a dollar for a coffee, or an idea of where to sleep. I know i would fall to the floor, and cry my heart dry. I would be sick with worry.
all my life, i wanted someone to help us as kids, and as long as i have breath, i want to help others, especially my own son.to give them the warmth of a bed, to let them have food, and a room to be in for the night.

and all he is doing with all that love is stepping on it. just not choosing to do things that would possibly help. he is in denial that anything can help him get on his feet, and i feel that he wants so badly to believe that he has no problem with alcohol, no tendency to abuse pills (for nerves- if he could get them), feels all his problems will be solved with a decent job, etc.
last night , he chilled me to the bone, for he said in a low voice "just cause i get that job, doesn't mean everything is gonna be fixed". I think he was trying to tell me that he is still gonna need something for his nerves.
he is so sick or selfish. both i think.

i am not going to keep him here. i will somehow, find the strength and courage to get him out. this is helping.
gonna get to that meeting tonight.
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Old 10-10-2010, 02:15 PM
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Suggestion #2: Cancel your internet connection.
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:16 PM
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Ok so he has anxiety which he is refusing to medically treat. ANd...? He is TELLING you he is not going to change when he gets a job. I also think it's interesting that you are so concerned he may harm himself and he just laughs at you..sounds like HE isn't thinking of harming himself..that's just your fears. Lots of us have kicked our adult children out without a dime..I did both of mine. TJP has..This MAN is being a terrorist with you (my AD tried this tactic as well) and You DO NOT NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS..that's what the staff at my AD's rehab would say to her and I love it!If you kick me out, I'll make your life miserable..terrorist threat! I'm not gonna change, so don't think that..Terrrorist threat! I got tired of it..maybe you will too.
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:29 PM
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There is a hugh difference between helping someone when they need help and enabling an adult on a day to day basis. I must admit, I really cannot wrap my head around your thinking process.

Have you read "Setting Boundaries With Your Adult Children", it is a book written to help parents who cannot stop enabling their adult children or in your case child.

Hope this all works out for you.
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:52 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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last night , he chilled me to the bone, for he said in a low voice "just cause i get that job, doesn't mean everything is gonna be fixed". I think he was trying to tell me that he is still gonna need something for his nerves.
he is so sick or selfish. both i think.


That would chill me to the bone, too. It sounds like he's telling you he isn't going anywhere and that he'll have money to buy whatever he thinks he needs. Then he'll still be there and using. What would you do then? Of course, he hasn't gotten the job yet, so it might be moot.

At some point, hon, you are going to have to make him leave. The reason YOU have to do it is because it is YOUR home and you want him gone. He has proven that he has no intention of going anywhere, so, if he is going to leave, you are going to have to be the one to put him out. I'm sorry. I know it sucks, but nothing changes if nothing changes.
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Old 10-10-2010, 04:07 PM
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what about his relationships with girlfriend/boyfriend? Anything in that department? from your posts it sounds like you're his only relationship. In real life, all the rest are online.

But even online, does he have friends there? Do you know, or is his computer life really private?
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Old 10-10-2010, 05:41 PM
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Chicory has said in several posts that he has NO ONE who will take his calls..I find that very telling. My AD too got to the point where even the other drugged out losers she hung with got sick of her..what does that tell you.? They have burned all their bridges. The good news..pushes them closer to their bottom. He only has one enabler left.
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Old 10-10-2010, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by kiki5711 View Post
what about his relationships with girlfriend/boyfriend? Anything in that department? from your posts it sounds like you're his only relationship. In real life, all the rest are online.

But even online, does he have friends there? Do you know, or is his computer life really private?
Kiki,

he had a girl , but they broke up two years ago, when he ended up homeless. He loved her, but she was a party girl, they dated off and on (he never really gave her all the time he could have) for three years, and I NEVER met her. saw a picture, and know about her, but that was it. I think he was hesitant to have me involved in his business. Guess he sees me as pretty intrusive.
he had friends, for years. they have been avoiding him for they know that he tends to attach his self to them , if they let him. as he has here.
he has long time friends online, but i have noticed that he does not like to talk chat unless he is in the "mood". which to me says he likes to be "loose and relaxed" before he can be as light hearted and witty as he wants to be. and also, he has mentioned that he has nothing to talk about with them, they have probably gone on to have families and homes, and he has none of that. He and his dad play computer games together, long distance, cause his dad is several states away. he has a very lonely life. he just hangs out in his room, or sleeps. he and i will have dinner together, and watch some tv. i try to get him out some, go shopping at thrift store or something. so he can get a break. he has a bicycle, but does not want to ride it. there are lots of them in town,tho- many revoked licenses, or no cars.
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Old 10-10-2010, 06:47 PM
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hi chicory, i do feel for you, as you do sound a lot like my mother, you say the same familiar things that i hear all the time. My mother always says to me what would i do if my son was in the same position and was feeling lost and had no one, and it puts me on the spot, what would i do as a mother. well i asked myself that, and realise i could be in the same position as her.
but i think knowing what i know now i hope i would be better equipped to deal with it. i am 51 and do have sons and a daughter, and if i do have to deal with my childrens addictions ever, heaven forbid, i hope i would have more of an in sight knowing what my mother is having to cope with , with my brothers, hope you can find the strength chicory to do what is right for you, i wouldn't want you to end up as troubled as my mother is now at age 81, i don't think it gets any easier, i urge you to escape now , while you are still young enough, love thyme x
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Old 10-10-2010, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by keepinon View Post
Chicory has said in several posts that he has NO ONE who will take his calls..I find that very telling. My AD too got to the point where even the other drugged out losers she hung with got sick of her..what does that tell you.? They have burned all their bridges. The good news..pushes them closer to their bottom. He only has one enabler left.
Ouch-
this hurts so mcuh.
I know dollydo does not understand my thought processes- believe me, i am trying to figure them out too.

when you come from a very dysfunctional home as i did, you dont learn the nice things that healthy , responsible parents teach their children. my parents WERE the children.

I remember how much it meant for me as a kid, to have someone in the family take us in when we had no where to go, nothing to eat sometimes. It felt sooo good, to be safe. I truly wonder if that is where i am getting hung up here.

I hope that someone believes me out there. Or am I just crazy?
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Old 10-10-2010, 07:23 PM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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I did make it to the al-anon meeting tonight. my first one.
went to aca meetings years ago, and it helped, but this is what i need.

a lady gave her testimony tonight and made a point that I grabbed onto. alcoholism is a family disease, and the dysfunction spreads through out the family. when you begin to recover, and practice healthier behavior, that also spreads throughout the family
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