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Old 10-10-2010, 09:32 PM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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Good,

You KEEP going to those meetings until you start internalizing some of that stuff.

You talk about how nice it was to be safe and taken care of, as a child. The thing is, your son is no longer a child. A REAL child can't get a job and take responsibility for himself or herself. Your grown son can--if he chooses to do so. He may have emotional problems that make it difficult for him, but help is available for him. YOU don't have to be the one to help him anymore. What YOU say to him goes in one ear and out the other.

Suki is right--YOU have to be the one to make him leave, because it's YOUR home.

In your case, the "healthier behavior" may be making him leave so he no longer is in a position to take advantage of you in order to avoid making changes in his life. For him to get healthier, he may have go be out on his own with no other choice but to seek or accept help for himself from others--people who can actually help him--doctors, psychologists, other alcoholics or addicts in recovery.
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Old 10-10-2010, 11:36 PM
  # 42 (permalink)  
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Chicory I did not mean to hurt you. It is true that you are the only one left who will tolerate his completely unacceptable behavior. I am so glad you went to an alanon meeting..keep going back as they say. I FINALLY realized that what I said, did, encouraged my AD to do was as Lexicat says going in one ear and out the other. She now recieves help from therapists, Dr.s , drug counselors , and program people. She LISTENS to them. They are not her MOTHER. We are not drug counselors, Dr.s , addiction specialists, or AA members. Even if we were we would not be allowed to treat a family member.I suck as a treatment center. What a relief to stop trying to be one
ps..she says I would love her addiction counselor she is "loud like you Mom,and she just calls me out on my sh*& and tells me I'm being a dumba&*" and she loves her and listens! Now if I said the same things, how do you think that would go over? They need help from proffessionals and other addicts, not their mamas.
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:42 AM
  # 43 (permalink)  
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Keepinon,

It only hurts cause it is the truth, and it hurts that i am hurting him.

I believe that he would listen to anyone but me, most days. But until he HAS to listen to survive, he won't!
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:44 AM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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(((Chicory))) I sense that you're feeling a little beat up here and I apologize for that. We are just feeling a little frustrated because we care so much about you and feel your pain. We want you to feel better and have a happy life that you so deserve.

I know you understand all the myriad of reasons why he should leave and you probably don't need to hear them any longer. So I'm going to take a different tack and, if you are more comfortable knowing that he has a roof over his head and a belly full of food, then what can you do to make your co-existence more tolerable if that is the only solution left?

These are also the things you will learn in Al-anon. There are many people who decide to stay with their alcoholic/addicted spouses because of finances, marriage vows, dedication, etc. You are not "crazy" and you are not alone in that regard either. Keep reading here, get books, and by all means get counseling if you can, with the goal of getting stronger boundaries.

Boundaries serve two very important purposes:
1) You will feel SO much better when you respect yourSELF enough to stand up and say, "I will not tolerate this treatment."
2) You will teach your son how to respect others.

When he doesn't have you to trample on and push around any longer, he will be forced to look at himself. He may even become SO uncomfortable that he wants to leave or GET BETTER.

Does that make sense?

Anyone out there have some good reading for Chicory about BOUNDARIES?
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:47 AM
  # 45 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chicory View Post
Kiki,

he had a girl , but they broke up two years ago, when he ended up homeless. He loved her, but she was a party girl, they dated off and on (he never really gave her all the time he could have) for three years, and I NEVER met her. saw a picture, and know about her, but that was it. I think he was hesitant to have me involved in his business. Guess he sees me as pretty intrusive.
he had friends, for years. they have been avoiding him for they know that he tends to attach his self to them , if they let him. as he has here.
he has long time friends online, but i have noticed that he does not like to talk chat unless he is in the "mood". which to me says he likes to be "loose and relaxed" before he can be as light hearted and witty as he wants to be. and also, he has mentioned that he has nothing to talk about with them, they have probably gone on to have families and homes, and he has none of that. He and his dad play computer games together, long distance, cause his dad is several states away. he has a very lonely life. he just hangs out in his room, or sleeps. he and i will have dinner together, and watch some tv. i try to get him out some, go shopping at thrift store or something. so he can get a break. he has a bicycle, but does not want to ride it. there are lots of them in town,tho- many revoked licenses, or no cars.
hugs
he sounds a lot like my stepson. my stepson was diagnosed with Aspergers. He has a very difficult time in social situations and making and keeping friends. He also "attaches" to people so people ignore him cause he becomes annoying that way. He spends all his time on the computer but not in any kind of friendship relationships. He spends all day playing games. He exaggerates a lot, makes a small thing into a "huge" thing then likes to blame it on others. He had one girlfriend a year ago for a short period of time and gave it up cause he said it was too complicated to have a relationship.

You said that your son starts talking a lot when you get home and it almost seems like he's edging for a fight. My stepson wants to argue and talk about stuff, like politics, the weather, what the presidents did 100 yrs ago, etc....enough to want to pull my hair out and kill myself by the end of the conversation. I can't take it. I avoid any conversation with him.

There's no pill or medication for this. But if you recognize and identify the behavior, you may have a better understanding of how to handle it.

My husband plans to sign him up in some kind of technical college. He's graduating high school this school year. He understands computers "in depth". My stepson can tell you how someone created a game from scratch, but he couldn't tell you why his friends don't call him.

We think if he is around other tech people who talk his language, he will be able to relate easier, so we're going to try that route.
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:49 AM
  # 46 (permalink)  
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OH! And the third VERY important thing about boundaries is this: They will help you to define what are HIS problems and what are YOURS. The line between you two is so blurred you don't know where you stop and he begins. You are SO concerned about how he is feeling and whether or not he has friends or any life at all... that's NOT your problem!!! Boundaries will give you back YOUR life....and he will have his.

((((HUGS))))) Darlin'.
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:51 AM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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Setting Bounderies With Your Adult Children...can order from the net.
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:57 AM
  # 48 (permalink)  
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TIPS FOR SETTING BOUNDARIES


[from this thread: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...tml#post26685]


Anger, rage, complaining, whining, and feeling threatened, "suffocated" or victimized are clues to boundaries you need to set.

When you identify a need to set a boundary or a limit with someone, do it clearly, preferably without anger and in as few words as possible.

You cannot simultaneously set a limit with someone and take care of their feelings--they may be hurt, angry or disappointed with you.

You'll probably be ashamed and afraid when you set boundaries.

Be prepared to follow through by acting in congruence with the boundaries you set.

You'll be tested when you set boundaries.

Some people are happy to respect your boundaries.

A support system can be helpful as you strive to establish and enforce boundaries.

You'll set boundaries when you are ready and not a minute sooner.

There's a satisfying side to setting boundaries--it feels good.



EXAMPLES OF SETTING BOUNDARIES

"You don't have a right to tell me what to think, or invalidate my feelings."

"Don't vent your anger on me, I won't have it."

"This is mine, you don't have a right to use it as yours."

"I won't accept your belittling jokes, your criticism or your condescending attitude toward me."

"I won't be disrespected -- If you won't respect me, then stay away."

"Keep your hands off me."

"Stop doing that...or I'll leave; report you; file charges, (etc.)."

"Don't try to tell me what to do."

"If we're going to have a working relationship, I need honesty, respect & equality."

"I need to communicate when we have a misunderstanding."

"I need openness and sharing in a relationship -- your withholding is making our relationship not satisfying for me."



HOW TO MAINTAIN YOUR PERSONAL BOUNDARIES

Ask directly for what you want. This shows who you are to others.

Nurture yourself and your integrity. This creates an inner, intuitive sense that lets you know when a relationship has become hurtful abusive, or invasive.

Be objective about others' behavior toward you without getting caught in their drama.

Maintain a bottom line -- a limit to how many times you allow someone to say no, lie, disappoint, or betray you before you will admit the painful reality and move on.

Change the locus of trust from others to yourself. Don't put yourself in someone else's hands or expect unfallibility. Trust that you can allow others to be normally human and still have satisfying intimacy.



AFFIRMATIONS OF SOME BASIC RIGHTS

Nobody has the right to know my mind or my business or to tell me what to think, what to feel or what to do.

I have a right to my own thoughts, feelings, values and beliefs.

What I share with others about matters that concern me is determined by what feels right to me--not what they want.

If people are abusive or disrespectful to me, I have a right to tell them so, to ask them to stop and to avoid them.

I don't have to be nice to people who aren't nice to me.

I don't need abuse or to be disrespected.

I have a need and right to love myself, respect myself and to stand up for myself.

I always have a right to express what I feel and think for myself, as long as I don't try to tell others what's right for them.

I have a right to be who I am and to harmlessly live my own life regardless of whether others don't like it.

I don't have to feel guilty for not behaving as others might want me to or for not giving others what they expect from me.

I accept myself just as I am in the moment with whatever thoughts and feelings I have.

I accept my right to make mistakes--otherwise I couldn't learn and grow.

I accept my right to my imperfection and shortcomings and don't feel guilty for not being perfect.

I believe that no matter what, I am a divine child of God who is loved, forgiven, safe and destined to God's eternal life and blessings.

I believe that we should do unto others as we would have them do unto us--to be treated with love and respect.

I believe that if I am true to myself and live by the highest truth I know, that things will turn out for the best in the long run.
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Old 10-11-2010, 05:01 AM
  # 49 (permalink)  
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TJP-
first off-
I am here to learn, and to stay sane, and to get strong enough to do the things that may help my son, and not hurt him. I am not here to stop him from drinking when he gets money, or to change him. I know that I cant do that. but I do want to learn not to enable, for he needs a chance at life, and I don't want to ruin his chances.

I realize that people may be getting frustrated, cause we all want to help and when some one does not seem to listen, it looks like they really dont want to change, that they are just crying "poor me", and maybe they are comfortable in the victim role. I hate those posts.
I am here to learn, and I spend much of my thoughts each day trying to see him in a different light. It helps to see him as "some guy" who lives here, but that mindset is hard to maintain, when youhave such codie tendencies.

I just dont want to blow it . I am thinking of insisting that he go into the mental health center here in town, to talk to someone about what is going on in his life. I really think he would go, even tho he would deny that. There are times when i have set something up, and he went along. He is not totally ignorant of his part in this, i dont think.

I still want him to get on his own, but it may be a little time. i need help with boundaries.

i almost chickened out of the meeting last night, and then he started talking about his nerves, and acting all grumpy, so i shot out the door, and found my way there, it was pretty far away. i will need tofind one closer.
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Old 10-11-2010, 05:06 AM
  # 50 (permalink)  
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hmmmm

I can't take it. I avoid any conversation with him.



this sounds like my son- a lot. his friends enjoyed him , in normal circumstances.
he also hates red tape of any kind - gripes and huffs about any things that he has to take care of. except he could program his compputer all day if he had to.
he too can tell you how it all works, how stars were born, how water is made, etc,etc, etc. but not what the interviewer at work told him about his schedule- at least a lot of time. he is a nervous guy.

thanks for this.
i may have to investigate this.
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Old 10-11-2010, 05:10 AM
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Do you have any friends that you can go out with? Have a few laughs?

What about hobbies (aside from your son) are there any that you can indulge yourself in?

I would recommend your doing something to get your mind off of him.

As for the Dad, yes a curfew is a bit much, however, it appears that good old Dad sees him as a child, which is what he is. Maybe they can take him for a few months so you can see if you can get yourself straightened out.
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Old 10-11-2010, 05:12 AM
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gotta go to work-
love you all

hugs
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Old 10-11-2010, 05:14 AM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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you make me laugh

What about hobbies (aside from your son) are there any that you can indulge yourself in?

Dollydo,

I need some time to remember what i used to like

This hobby stinks!
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:20 AM
  # 54 (permalink)  
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chicory, how are thing going with your son?
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Old 10-26-2010, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by kiki5711 View Post
chicory, how are thing going with your son?
well Kiki, thanks for asking. it has been a crummy week.

sons dad sent money. son bought much alcohol.

son did not go to first day of new job.

son has been very drunk , most of each day. vodka and beer.

this week has moved things along quite a bit.

i told him that he leaves this weekend.

he is drunk and asleep right now.

my heart really hurts, but i know what i have to do.

this guy is never going to change, until he wants to.

he is never going to want to while he is being taken care of.

i am glad i found this site. it has helped me to maintain

a calm that i dont understand. i know he cant help it,

i cant change it, and it is his life. if he want to ruin his,

that is his business, but i wont let him ruin mine. it will

always hurt, but i wont have to have that "front row seat"

that every one talks about.

thanks for asking about things.

i can smell the vodka from across the hall-

wafting from under his door. i am sad.

chicory
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:03 PM
  # 56 (permalink)  
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I'm sorry for your sadness, dear, and I understand that sort of sadness.

When I kicked my AD out after a month's stay, I had suspicions of drinking going on, and knew for sure she was smoking pot because I walked into the smell that day when I got home.

What I didn't expect were the cases upon cases of empty beer bottles I found hidden in the closets when I went to clean her room up.

You deserve happiness, and having your home as a safe haven
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:03 PM
  # 57 (permalink)  
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Just wanted to tell you - I am thinking of your chicory
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Old 10-26-2010, 06:06 PM
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Chicory.we all know this has been quite a struggle but here you are..demanding dignity and a serene life, giving your son dignity and the chance of a serene life. Good job.
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Old 10-26-2010, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by keepinon View Post
Chicory.we all know this has been quite a struggle but here you are..demanding dignity and a serene life, giving your son dignity and the chance of a serene life. Good job.

Thanks for the support. It is so hard to watch. I want him to leave sober, and have his things sorted, which stuff he wants to take. that is why i gave him the warning. i forgot how much someone can drink.

what kind of alcoholic is he, that he has been drinking up since he got the money friday?

i told him that he might want to save some of his money. but he may not, so that is another lesson he will learn the hard way.
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Old 10-26-2010, 06:36 PM
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Sounds like binge drinking..goes on "benders".has periods of abstaining. You want him to leave sober..he may not.He may not save any money.However he leaves is his choice. Just keep stepping away, stepping back from any part of things that are his decision. It's your decision (and a good one) that he has to leave. Where he goes and in what condition is his.Hang in there...
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