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Old 09-11-2010, 08:56 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Alcoholism AND cheating are both progressive for the most part. I was a "victim" of my axw's cheating the FIRST time she was caught and all the red flags were smacking me in the face.

From that point on, the next 3-4 years, I was a "willing participant".

May be time to ask your therapist why an intelligent, strung, independent woman like yourself would even entertain a second chance. How much more of "this lesson" do you need?

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:05 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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I can feel your pain just reading your words and I am very, very sorry for what you are feeling. It is so deeply painful to be lied to and betrayed by the one you've given everything to. My XAH left after I caught him in an affair. It is devastating.

Your guy's infidelity is a serious issue, a character issue, maybe even a sex addiction issue. How is living with him going to help you?! Ask yourself if you can really honestly trust him at this point. Do you want to live like that? Do you want your son to live in that environment?

Yes, he is afraid to lose you, because he knows how wonderful you are. He is feeling entitled to what he has chosen to disrespect. He would still be in the middle of it now if you hadn't caught him. If he respected you, he would understand and admit that you deserve better than to be with a liar and manipulator...and he would let you go. It's all about him right now, and he will work his magic until he feels you're hooked again, if you let him. Then where will you be? You won't like to hear this, but it will probably take you right back into the same cycle.

If you can, find a copy of "The Journey from Abandonment to Healing" by Susan Anderson. It might be too painful to read right now, but at some point I hope you can pick it up and start to benefit from it. There are a few of us here who are working through it and discussing it together. Join us!

You're in the right place, Lisa. The people here are amazing and you can learn everything you want to about alcoholism and more, although your guy's issues run far deeper than alcohol. Stay here for support.

Trying to figure out why people are telling him different things than what you're hearing will drain your energy. Try to stay focused on what is best for you. Listen to your instincts. If you know that your trust is completely shattered, then ask yourself what is left. Without trust, you will never have a solid, healthy relationship.

Hugs to you, Lisa.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:07 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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I haven't even moved yet! He is convincing me AND MY SON that we should move in within 3 weeks from now. His sponsor tells us that we should be working on this WHILE LIVING TOGETHER. The therapist that I mentioned above is someone we have gone to together... only twice now. She said those words, that he is a master-manipulator/liar right there in front of him. He says he is seeking help from his sponsor and that he will fix whatever went wrong. I'm afraid to tell ANY of my family or friends.. as they are going to tell me the same things that everyone here has said.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:16 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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I'm embarassed and I'm humiliated. I can't understand why he is so persistent. If I wasn't that important this whole time... why am I so important now? Is he truly sorry? He sounds like it. He has promised me a wonderful life, if I can just get through this one mistake. My son knows what happened - of course NO DETAILS... but pretty much knows he betrayed me. Now.. at first my son was hurt and devistated... however... the very next day..and every day since... my little boy says to me: "Mommy, our God is a forgiving God. Wouldn't God want you to forgive him? He has asked for forgiveness... and wouldn't our God want you to forgive him?"

WHAT DO I DO WITH THAT?? Such a young boy saying that to me?

Please Lord... grant me the strength to make the right choices here.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:19 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Hi Lisa,

I'm truly sorry you have to deal with this. It's all just a huge mess that you don't desrve nor need in your life.

I find it interesting that he said his sponsor said you should both be living together to work through this, and that it will be ok if he gets back to working his steps. Do we really know his sponsor said this? I find that highly suspect as well and also feel he's trying to use his sponsor as a shield to hide behind. Having a sponsor does not allow one to abuse those we love, only to start doing the steps again once we've been caught. If we do the steps and try to live them everyday, we don't need our sponsors to cover our backs.

I am an alcoholic guy and would not try to use my sponsor or anyone to protect me from facing the consequences for lying and cheating on a woman who never said no to me and gave all the love she could give. It's that old thing of wanting his cake and eating it too, and that just doesn't work.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:20 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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I have forgiven my XAH for his infidelity, but it doesn't mean he has changed. In fact, he cheated on his wife (the mistress in our marriage), she cheated on him with his best friend, and to this day they have an unhappy, unhealthy marriage.

Forgiveness is for you...not for him. Forgiveness allows you to let go and move on. It may even say, "I love you", but it doesn't mean sacrificing yourself for something that is not good for you.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:23 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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lost, honey, were you "lost" before this happened? When you didn't know the truth were you letting other people convince you of what you should do that is contrary to what your GUT is telling you? What is your gut telling you? Move or don't move?

Why is HIS SPONSOR telling you what you should do? Are you asking him?

The counselor is RIGHT. This monster is a monster and a master manipulator. He is a LIAR. And a cheat. IMO he is an a$$hole. It does NOT get better honey. There is nothing to "fix." He is what he is. The BEST predictor of future behavior is PAST behavior. You know this instinctually but you are being convinced otherwise.

What you're saying he and the sponsor are saying to you reminds me of the story of Adam and Eve. Eve is standing in the Garden, minding her own business, doing her best to live life, decorating the Garden with all sorts of pretty flowers, and along comes this SNAKE. And he's whispering in her ear what she should do. I want to scream out, "HIT THE EFFING SNAKE WITH A SHOVEL AND RUN THE HELL AWAY!"

Please please please don't move in with this man. Get your girlfriends around you, get your family around you, and find your POWER and your VOICE again.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:30 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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"as long as he gets help -he will and you guys will be ok"
That's not the case -is it?
No (you are right) that is not that case.
What kind of help can he possibly get that is going to turn him into a truthful, faithful, loyal, monogamous person?
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:38 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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It IS NOT his sponsor's place.. or right to say that....that is just high smelling fishy...where is the respect for Lisa?
For Lisa to have some space and peace of mind to make her own decisions?
To feel her own feelings without getting the bum's rush?
To move at her own pace?

I understand you met the prince with the perfect fairytale....but you found out it was all a lie. IT WAS ALL A LIE. You have the photos to prove it, pictures are worth a thousand words.

Who is validating your feelings and values genuinely without the self-interested motives and push to do what someone else wants you to do?

I know you want it all to be true..the remorse, the working it out. That's natural.
But can you and do you have any reasonable and realistic basis for putting all your eggs in this basket when the truth has never been there from the start.

I think it would help you to take some time to yourself, without his input and if he respects you...he will respect that need...to process this horror and heart-wrenching nightmare.

All along he has said all the right things.
And he was doing the wrongest things.
My dad always said that actions speak louder than words.

(((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
you need them.

Confusion is a sign in and of itself.
It's one of the first things we feel when we are being told things that aren't congruent with reality.
It's a tell tale sign of abuse.
Deceit and infidelity are abuse.
Pushing you that others know what's right for you and what you should do is abuse.

This isn't about alcoholism.
A sponsor works with a person to help them stay sober and work the steps.
They aren't a counselor and therapist and this sponsor needs to get with his sponsor because he is out of line...he is way over-stepping his role and that is wrong too.

How about making a private appmt with that therapist?

I also have a feeling you could learn huge things from reading about verbal and emotional abuse.
We do have some stickies here.
Also look up "gaslighting"

I wish you peace.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:40 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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I asked him that question... he said it is God's will. That as long as he doesn't ignore God anymore (as he says that is what he has been doing this whole time) he will be able to live the right way and treat me the way I deserve to be treated.

You see.. I've never been faced with this before. I've never been so undecided. I'm able to make good decisions. I used to always trust my instincts and I'd never before ignored red flags. For goodness sakes... I'm a 37 year old woman. I've come far in my life because of my instincts! Why all of a sudden now... with this man am I doubting myself? Why in God's name was it 10 times easier to walk away from my HUSBAND! The father of my son... the man I took vows with and spent all of those years with? Rather than walking away from a man I've known.... what? 8 - 9 months?

What happened to me?
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:42 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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His sponsor is telling us "we should be living together to work thru this" and that as long as he begins his steps again... everything is going to be ok.

Did you hear his "sponsor" say that, or did he just say his "sponsor" said that? Sorry, but I have a VERY difficult time believing a real AA sponsor would say those words. If he really did, then he either doesn't know the true story or he isn't much of a sponsor. A sponsor's job is to try to keep his sponsee sober, not micromanage his love life. This all just sounds like a huge con job to me.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:50 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by suki44883 View Post
His sponsor is telling us "we should be living together to work thru this" and that as long as he begins his steps again... everything is going to be ok.

Did you hear his "sponsor" say that, or did he just say his "sponsor" said that? Sorry, but I have a VERY difficult time believing a real AA sponsor would say those words. If he really did, then he either doesn't know the true story or he isn't much of a sponsor. A sponsor's job is to try to keep his sponsee sober, not micromanage his love life. This all just sounds like a huge con job to me.
--
You're right. It is HIM telling me that this is what his sponsor said. I've thought of that. He is currently at this 'silent' retreat in Kentucky *with his sponsor*. However is CONSTANTLY texting and calling. He called all of 15 minutes ago. Now, I don't know if this was a good idea or not - but I told him this:

"The next call I get, should be from your sponsor."

His reply was a very energetic and happy OK!!

I guess I'll now be getting that call soon.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:51 AM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Why all of a sudden now... with this man am I doubting myself? Why in God's name was it 10 times easier to walk away from my HUSBAND! The father of my son... the man I took vows with and spent all of those years with? Rather than walking away from a man I've known.... what? 8 - 9 months?
Because master manipulators are EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO. They are "masters" of their art.

Be gentle with yourself. I understand your feelings of humiliation and embarrassment that you mentioned earlier. They are absolutely normal. But, please, hold your head HIGH and remind yourself that you have nothing to be ashamed of. If this guy were an honest, morally sound man, your relationship would be everything you thought it was. But he IS NOT those things. You were misled, lied to, and cheated on by a master who instinctively knows a good thing when he sees it (you) and did what he needed to hook you.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:55 AM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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This man actually invited a married woman to his house, took pictures of her, had intimate relations with her, and kept the pictures, only to be discovered by you. Now, he's promising you the world.

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Sponsor or no sponsor.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:55 AM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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Alcohol abuse and alcoholism is something you can see...it is ongoing and clear in front of you.

Verbal and emotional abuse is rather harder to sort out.

Your first post you said you were in a fog.
You can simply assert the right to step back to recoup until the fog clears.
How reasonable is that?!!!
Anyone would want time to reflect!
To re-consider any commitment.
That's perfectly sane, let no one convince you otherwise.
Doesn't all this push and constant pressure feel a bit like harassment now?
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:56 AM
  # 36 (permalink)  
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What happened to me?
Didnt the counselor say master manipulator? that is what happened to you, master manipulator.

I asked him that question... he said it is God's will. That as long as he doesn't ignore God anymore (as he says that is what he has been doing this whole time) he will be able to live the right way and treat me the way I deserve to be treated.
This is a great tell lost, he is telling you he knows when and when he shouldnt listen to God. He can ignore God when he is getting what he wants, but once he is caught, well, now he can listen to God. When he wants to drink again, will he stop listening to God?

I am not a psychiatrist, psychologist, or play one on tv, but I have know people with personality disorders. You are not a person to him, a woman with a child with feelings. You are a pawn in his game. He "wins" the good girl and finds another replacement on the side to satisfy his other needs. Please listen carefully to what others are saying.

His sponsor has nothing to say to you. Nothing. Get your own sponsor and counselor real quick like, and get your gaze out of the headlights. There is only more pain and humiliation on the way.

Beth
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:59 AM
  # 37 (permalink)  
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I agree. You have no business talking to his sponsor.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:59 AM
  # 38 (permalink)  
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How about making a private appmt with that therapist?

I also have a feeling you could learn huge things from reading about verbal and emotional abuse.
We do have some stickies here.
Also look up "gaslighting"

I wish you peace.[/QUOTE]

--
Live, I'd like to first say that I appreciate you very, very much. Until this post of mine, sadly I've had NO ONE to talk to. I know you think I should tell my family and friends... but I cannot bring myself to do it! Never, never, never have I EVER felt so ashamed and humiliated before in my life.

I think I WILL make a private appointment with this same therapist. She has met him now twice.. has the WHOLE true story because we were both present when it was told. So she may just be the person I need to see.

What do you mean by we do have some stickies here ? (please pardon my ignorance on some things/verbiage used here.)

I looked up gaslighting... ouch. You know why it's "ouch" for me? because that has NEVER in my life been ME? Who is this man to be the first HUMAN BEING (male or female) to ever have been able to gain so much control over me... ME!? If all the people who have known me quite a long time could only describe me in 3 words... they would all be the same; strong, smart & independent.

who is this man? to have gotten one over on me.... why am i still allowing him to even speak to me?

i'm starting to think that all this "strongness" I protest of myself, really is a enormous WEAKNESS. I'm down on myself and I don't what has happened or what is even happening now..
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Old 09-11-2010, 10:07 AM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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Thank you.

I don't see why you should "have" to tell your family and friends.
This is your private business.

Look, this isn't your fault.
Many strong, successful women have fallen prey to this syndrome.
It is hard as hell to sort through.

The stickies are the posts at the top of this forum. There are also some in the top of the Women In Recover Forum.

I will try to find you some other resources.
I am back and forth here at home trying to do more than one thing at a time.
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Old 09-11-2010, 10:09 AM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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I also think it is a bad idea to have an ongoing texting conversation with him. He is using it to manipulate you. You ask questions and he give you the response he thinks you want. Sorry again, but this guy is just a huge manipulator and he has set his sights on you. Again, the best thing to do would be to block him from your phone and email and refuse to have contact with him. He cannot confuse you if you don't have contact with him.
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