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It's a mystery to me how any real alkie recovers......

Old 06-15-2014, 02:52 PM
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It's a day to day choice for some. And sometimes it's hard. Going back to rehab is fine and all, but staying sober after rehab is another matter. It can be seen as a series of many seemingly small choices... which add up to something large. And it's necessary to stay willing. Willing to be sober. Willing to live sober. Just today, for some.
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Old 06-15-2014, 02:58 PM
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I have NO DOUBT that I am a real alcoholic...I've tried my entire life to quit and even when things got bad I would always pick back up! I tried AA, NA and even religion with no success. After years of failure I reached out to someone I respected and knew to be sober for many years...he told me to get to AA and actually do what they tell me to do (something I neglected to do the other times) and I did and for the first time in my life I can honestly say that the obsession to drink has been lifted from me. I have no desire to drink and haven't had a drink in over 40 days...a first for me in many, many years!

I now believe that my success at recovery is directly correlated to my willingness to do the work that the AA program suggests. I can't speak for others to the degree or non-degree of their alcoholism, but take it from me, a real alcoholic, AA does and will work if you truly want it to!

A friend once told me that the program of AA is not for those who want it or even those who need it, the program of AA is for those willing to do the work!

Good luck my friend, it is a terrible disease indeed!
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Old 06-15-2014, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert777 View Post
from this terrible affliction. I am really starting to think this site is full of only heavy drinkers with the odd few real alcoholics. Some of you make it seem so easy. I am at my wits end.
Not easy , just necessary!Stay Strong and Well ! Bobby
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Old 06-15-2014, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert777 View Post
I am not comparing ones addiction to another. I am questioning how many people on this site are real alcoholics and who are only heavy drinkers that can stop when the consequences get too bad.
How bad is too bad my friend? Lose a few businesses/jobs? Go bankrupt feeding the beast? Get a couple DUI's/ spend tens of thousands on fines and lawyers? Or do you have to actually harm someone, yourself included irrepairally(is that a word)! If you have to ask the question then you need to stop, it will be worth all the BS you have to put up with to STOP! I Promise! Stay Strong and Well ! Bobby
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Old 06-15-2014, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert777 View Post
from this terrible affliction. I am really starting to think this site is full of only heavy drinkers with the odd few real alcoholics. Some of you make it seem so easy. I am at my wits end.
Take a read of our Stories of Recovery forum Robert - you'll find any number of people there who I'm sure will have suffered enough to meet your personal standard.

Take solace in the fact that they recovered - you can too...if you're prepared to do whatever it takes .

If you feel you're a textbook real alcoholic my suggestion would be to find the most 'Big Book thumping' group you can and do it by the book - no hugs, no pats on the back, just hard work and spartan devotion to the programme as laid out in the Big Book.

Originally Posted by Robert777 View Post
I think there are quite a few frauds on this site if I am being honest.
Have a hug

I know you're annoyed and frustrated but picking fights won't help you feel better.

Been there done that

D

Last edited by Dee74; 06-15-2014 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 06-15-2014, 04:28 PM
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I used to think the same thing. I used to go to AA meetings and sneer that they weren't actual alcoholics!

In retrospect, I think my alcoholic brain was looking for any reason to keep drinking. And if it came from comparing myself to other people, well, that was good enough for me.

I don't like to compare drinking stories, but I drank enough vodka and drank it often enough and had enough destruction behind me, without and within, to "qualify" by anyone's standards.

Once I gave up and made a decision to work for my sobriety no matter what--when it became the only and most important thing in my life--was I able to recover.

Was it easy? Absolutely not. Was it simple? It didn't seem so at the time, but looking back, yeah, it was pretty simple. Challenging and life changing and not easy. but simple. (My alcohol-addled brain made it seem way more complicated than it actually was.)

I was an emotional wreck for the first year and the second year was a little bit easier, and it's gotten considerably better and easier ever since.

I posted because I recognized myself in your thoughts. So consider this a "shout out" from "the other side." There are many people who struggled and thought like you do and we have recovered.

You can, too.

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Old 06-15-2014, 05:04 PM
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I didn't have to figure it out. Bill W. and company already did many moons ago. I just had to learn from them. It took me quite a while but I kept coming back. When I finally wanted it bad enough, I got it.
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Old 06-15-2014, 05:43 PM
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Robert, have you tried adding a therapist or addictions counselor to your recovery program? I have a number of friends who tell me that working one on one with a good therapist, in addition to daily AA/NA meetings and active participation in the fellowship, was a vital component to their achieving long term recovery. One of those friends now has 23 years sober and runs an addiction treatment facility.

Another thing you might explore is Vivitrol. This is extended release naltrexone, a once a month injection that you usually hear about in connection with opiate addiction (it's an opiate blocker), but which can also be prescribed to treat alcoholism.
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Old 06-15-2014, 06:25 PM
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I firmly believe that I was genetically wired to be alcoholic, as are most of my relatives. The very first time I drank as a teenager I got blasted, sick, embarrassed etc. it's been a struggle ever since. I had several years sobriety before the stuff hit the fan. On the other hand, I also know a number of people who grew into alcoholism after heavy drinking, sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly.

My recovery depends on me and what I'm willing to do to stay sober. Sometimes it doesn't work.....
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:25 PM
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I went to AA off and on for 25 years. When it came down to it and I worked those steps, that is when change took place.

Whatever works, do it and do it well!!
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:13 PM
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Robert, the journey is a brutal one sometimes. I hadn't gone without a drank for a few days in 15 years. I don't know where I landed on the Alkie scale or if I was more/ less physically addicted then most. I just know that I drank everyday and thought I could not live without it. Drinking was fun in my 20s but it became a chore in my late 20s and early 30s. I didn't drink 2 liters of vodka a day but I would drink a 12 pack with a few shots. Waking up anxious and all shaky. Stinking of booze vowing not to drink again that night. But as soon as work was over it was time to get loaded.

I never really hit a rock bottom by going to prison or rehab. My therapist told me about a study that shows alcoholism leads to jail, rehab, death, divorce, and joblessness. Okay those are possibilities but not for me. I am above the curve. When my wife had to beg me to cut down to the weekends and I was feeling sick everyday from a hangover I took these as signs something needs to change.

Normal people don't drink everyday that ends in y. My physical withdraw was minimal for me. Its the mental that's a real challenge. I had never sincerely tried to quit before but I had made up my mind after a long night of binge drinking and getting sick. I guess almost burning down my house from trying to cook drunk wasn't a sign enough.

The point is sobriety is tough. I still have the urge to get some alcohol at night. I think gosh this was a brutal day. I should grab a drink and relax. Dealing with emotions and reality is extremely difficult sober. Sure people are proud to post their success stories and they should. They are inspirational. But its the behind the scenes that we know is very difficult juggling jobs, family, and life's lovely/surprising misfortunes. Doing it sober without the aid of alcohol. If I could do it alone I wouldn't be on this website reading and learning from others.

I beg you to keep giving yourself a chance. Everyday is a new day. There are so many different resources out there. Keep experimenting until you find one that fits. Sobriety isn't sunshine and rainbows. Sobriety isn't a prison either. It a new way to embrace life and to live each day to its fullest good, bad, and ugly.
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:38 PM
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Robert, wouldn't it be more helpful to yourself if you didn't discount people who have had success, and instead reach out to them for support. Everyone here is more than willing to support you.

You need to fight for yourself. Do you want the magic key? Willpower, support, willpower, support and most importantly... Wanting it. I wish you the best of luck.
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:52 PM
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for me i was simply beaten by the booze, i had lost everything all because i couldn't stop drinking.
when i went into aa if they told me to drop my trousers and moonie at the queen of england to get sober i would of done it

they call it the gift of despair

going to prison didnt get me to stop
losing my kids to social workers didnt make me stop
losing my busnines didnt get me to stop
losing my home didnt make me stop
ending up on my own in a hostel flat and throwing up to get another drink down me didnt make me stop

but one day i woke up with no money i couldnt get any booze and i was facing getting kicked out of the hostel run flat
with no booze inside me for a day and no way i could get any i was in total madness i couldnt escape anymore into the booze
its was a day of hell but it was also the best day of my life

i went to aa with nothing and i got my life back and more i got a new life of practising some new ways of doing things
i didnt want to do any of them so the first thing i had to practice was practicing opposites

if i had to go to shop for a walk my head would tell me not to bother and just sit in my own misery
so i had to say to my head get stuffed i am going to go to the shop and i would go and when i did i felt much better
on and on it goes doing things my head tell me not to do

until finally it starts to get easier,

maybe you need that gift of despair my friend ? i dont know what its like to go to a rehab as i couldn't afford one so aa was my only way out
i hope it works for you but i do belive nothing will work unless you truely want it in your heart of hearts
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:14 PM
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So whats your plan Robert. Keep on drinking until you die go insane or get locked up for hurting others? Or keep trying. How long did you give AA and AVRT? It takes more than a few days. Did you get a sponsor, read the literature, go to meetings, talk to other members,actually do the steps? After all it is a 12 Step program.

Hope you don't give up trying to get sober.
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert777 View Post
Yeah real alcoholics as apposed to those who are only heavy drinkers. Those who suffer the disease of alcoholism as opposed to heavy drinkers who can stop drinking when things go bad in their lives. There IS a difference.
Maybe there is a difference, but that's not for anyone to decide but the person themselves. I never suffered any major consequences, so maybe by your standards I don't qualify. Yet, I know I am an alcoholic because when I drink something happens to me that does not happen to normal drinkers. And I cannot recognize that, remember that, and stop on my own. My personal recovery has been greatly aided by the fellowship of AA, the support I have been given, and my willingness to work the steps with my sponsor and stop comparing myself to other people. My life is infinitely better sober. That tells me all that I need to know.

As far as the obsession being lifted, it comes to some more quickly than others for various reasons. Everyone is different and will struggle with different things in their recovery. Some people come in and out of recovery and relapse for years. Some people quit drinking and it sticks the first time. The perceived "easiness" of another's recovery has nothing to do with whether or not they're alcoholic. I am sorry your journey has been so difficult and that you have not found something that has worked for you yet. I hope you will keep giving programs chances, fair ones, and that you will find something that will help you. Best x
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:31 PM
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Hmmm, I would suggest not getting hung up on labels. I believe that all of us here fight our battles in different ways. I've seen some folks have to fight every moment of every day for days, weeks. I, on the other hand, can count on one hand how many times I've struggled in the past couple of months. I absolutely count myself as an alcoholic. A 750mL of vodka every day for over a year is not normal consumption no matter what label is attached.

I am sorry that you are struggling. Please don't discount the experiences of others just because they may not be having as hard of a time as you. In the end, we all want the same thing.
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Old 06-15-2014, 10:58 PM
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I hear ya man. I'm a real alcoholic. Haven't been able to stop no matter how bad things get. Just keep fighting, don't blame these people who made changes that you and I haven't been able to make. It can be done and I've met many people on this site who were/are real alcoholics and experienced some unimaginable things. You are not alone man. But this can be beaten. Just never give up. I throw up, look like a crack addict, don't eat, can't even get a haircut these days. It's a sickness man. Just know you aren't alone. Hope all the best for you.
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Old 06-16-2014, 12:17 AM
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For all us "real" alcoholics (all addicts in fact):

A.A. Recovery - The Missing Piece: The Spiritual Malady
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Old 06-16-2014, 12:24 AM
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Hey Robert. I can assure you that i am an unremarkable, run of the mill alcoholic. When i was consuming 1.75L of vodka every 3 days or so (often supplemented by beer or another alcoholic drink) i weighed around 110-115 pounds. I'm a 5'2" woman and i could drink men nearly twice my size under the table. That is, on the rare occasion i left my house and drank around other people. I lived in a different state from my husband for over 2 years because i refused to get sober and move. We were still very much a couple but i made excuses and hid my drinking from him and the poor guy bought it. In fact, i did not voluntarily move. My mom couldn't get in touch with me, found me blackout drunk and called my husband. My household was packed up in a few days while i went through withdrawals and i was moved from Alabama to Wisconsin. I then lived in the basement for several months, pissing into the utility sink (which is quite a feat for a woman) and more passed out than consciousness.

I got medically detoxed, got drunk, went to rehab (in the middle of which my father-in-law died), sober for maybe 3 months, got drunk, stayed drunk for a while with many attempts to get sober, rehab again, kicked out of IOP for showing up drunk and finally went to AA. Quit AA after a few months, stayed sober for 10 months, got drunk, stayed drunk, back to AA, sober 3 months, got drunk, got sober, moved to Seattle, few weeks sober, got drunk, had some odd circumstances occur and got sober on March 25, 2014. I got a homegroup, a sponsor, a women's meeting and a few more and am diligently doing what my sponsor tells me. I practice honesty constantly and am doing everything i can to live a life where i no longer need to drink.

I promise you that i am an alcoholic. I don't heavy drink. I freaking drink. If alcohol touches my lips, i'm off to the races. There is no moderation. Not even a chance. I have two relationships with alcohol. One is to drink with wild abandon to the detriment of my health, my relationships, my self respect and my sanity. The other is to not drink at all. For me to not drink at all, i have to work my ass off every day. If i was just a heavy drinker, i would just not drink. I wish it were so easy. Instead, i devote hours a week, if not hours a day, to my recovery program. For example, i am writing here now while my dinner grows cold. Why? I have to. I have to stay in contact with other alcoholics. I need this more than food. More than air. If i'm not practicing recovery at all times, i'm headed for a relapse and i don't know if i would survive that.

It doesn't matter how much you drink or how often. It doesn't matter if you were able to get and stay sober the first time or if you're in a constant cycle of recovery and relapse. An alcoholic is someone who has an allergy of the body and a obsession of the mind. I practice recovery all day every day because it relieves my obsession. I have to be obsessed with recovery or i will eventually start living a life where alcohol becomes to solution to all of my problems. In many ways, i don't have an alcohol problem. I have a sobriety problem. I am not equipped to live an unregulated sober life. I can't live without the obsession. I need advice and support from other sober alcoholics or i will once again to alcohol for support. If i'm sober and i'm not participating in active recovery, i get twitchy. The only thing that relieves this twitch besides recovery is alcohol.

Normal people, heavy drinkers, don't obsess. They get hammered when they drink but it's not the focus of their lives. If faced with severe consequences, they will not drink. If faced with severe consequences, i will drink to relieve the fear of those consequences. It's who i am. It's what i am. An average alcoholic. My only defense is my program. If i get lazy with that, the safety net i rely on is gone and i fall into booze again.

I understand your struggles, i really do. I empathize with your hopelessness. Rehab didn't fix me. My psych wanted me to go back but i know how that goes and all the self knowledge rehab gave me won't cure me. Nothing but a relationship with my Higher Power, the fellowship of sober alcoholics, absolute honesty and transparency in my emotions and working and reworking the 12 steps throughout my life will keep me sober. It's a lot of work and honestly, it sometimes seems like drunking is the simpler answer. Maybe it is, but i can't force that life upon my friends, my family or myself anymore. I have gained respect and love for myself. I want to keep sober and share my experiences with those who still suffer. I'm a lush. I'm selfish. I'm mentally ill. I'm a sober alcoholic in recovery and i want to share. Honesty and acceptance are my masters now. If i throw them out, alcohol is there to take their place. It will always be there. Waiting.
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Old 06-16-2014, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by FeenixxRising View Post
"Real alcoholics"? As opposed to "unreal alcoholics"?

You may want to spend some time reading the stories posted on the Stories of Recovery sub-forum. I'm pretty sure the majority of those members were more than heavy drinkers.

As far as stopping goes, well, like anything else worth obtaining, it takes effort, patience and persistence, and sometimes a little help from others. So don't give up on yourself. And if you need help, ask for it. Today could be the beginning of something great, if you want it.
That is so patronizing; don't you think then that he's tried patience, persistence & sometimes a little help from others???
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