It's a mystery to me how any real alkie recovers......
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
it could depend on what the description of realalcoholic is. one description is from the big book and I fit it:
...But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink.
I had crossed the line into full blown alcoholism and had absolutely no control over how much I drank. actually,I really didn't care how much I drank( I was pretty good at proving to people they could drink me under the table). i wasnt in it for quantity. it was quality.I had the inability to stop after having one. I had lost the power of choice.
then i reached the point of desperation- getting drunk exceeded the pain of reality. it was then i wanted to stop drinking- stop drinking or kill myself. i became willing to DO whatever it took.
nope, getting sober wasn't easy and i don't think i personally have ever said it was. it was the toughest fight i ever faced, one i am very greatful to have fought every second.
staying sober, on the other hand, has been easy.
whether it be AA, AVRT, this site, RR, or whatever recovery method, i believe trying doesn't work very good. theres a lot of DOING to getting sober.
theres a lot of real alcohlics on this site. many different recovery methods used by them real alcoholics to get sober,too. but i don't think any of em got sober by trying. they got sober by getting into action.there is no magic secret.
the rehab yer goin to will work if you put in the footwork there AND afterwards.
...But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink.
I had crossed the line into full blown alcoholism and had absolutely no control over how much I drank. actually,I really didn't care how much I drank( I was pretty good at proving to people they could drink me under the table). i wasnt in it for quantity. it was quality.I had the inability to stop after having one. I had lost the power of choice.
then i reached the point of desperation- getting drunk exceeded the pain of reality. it was then i wanted to stop drinking- stop drinking or kill myself. i became willing to DO whatever it took.
nope, getting sober wasn't easy and i don't think i personally have ever said it was. it was the toughest fight i ever faced, one i am very greatful to have fought every second.
staying sober, on the other hand, has been easy.
whether it be AA, AVRT, this site, RR, or whatever recovery method, i believe trying doesn't work very good. theres a lot of DOING to getting sober.
theres a lot of real alcohlics on this site. many different recovery methods used by them real alcoholics to get sober,too. but i don't think any of em got sober by trying. they got sober by getting into action.there is no magic secret.
the rehab yer goin to will work if you put in the footwork there AND afterwards.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 42
this link might be useful?
Alcoholism and Problem Drinking. Signs of Alcoholism | Patient.co.uk
there is a difference between a heavy drinker and being alcohol dependent, in definition. Heavy drinkers being at high risk of developing dependency.
People drink because of a number of reasons.... however the mental decision to stop can be extremely hard whether dependent or not and may be a mental issue to deal with.
If you think you are physically addicted you need to deal with that as well.
It may be an idea to see your doctor for medical support to help with withdrawal symptoms.
I think it would be a small number of alcoholics who decide to be and therefore just need to cope with physical withdrawals.... in fact I would find that hard to understand.
Most likely there would be mental things to deal with too and I think that is the hardest thing.... adjusting to not relying on alcohol to maintain a number of issues....be it confidence/ circumstances/ stress.....
I'm certainly not an expert, but my drinking was ruining so many aspects of my life but had a root in things that had happened. The longer I put off dealing with those issues, the more I drank and the more issues/ consequences I took on as a result... it just got out of hand. I had to stop drinking, face up to all the troubles I had and was causing and sto it getting worse.
Now, not drinking allows me to repair the things I had caused.... rather than hide away.
There is no one thing that works for anyone, but for certain this site has helped me as I have been able to connect with other peoples struggles.... dependent or not.
Just read around the site and see what approaches people took... or just ask that question.
Alcoholism and Problem Drinking. Signs of Alcoholism | Patient.co.uk
there is a difference between a heavy drinker and being alcohol dependent, in definition. Heavy drinkers being at high risk of developing dependency.
People drink because of a number of reasons.... however the mental decision to stop can be extremely hard whether dependent or not and may be a mental issue to deal with.
If you think you are physically addicted you need to deal with that as well.
It may be an idea to see your doctor for medical support to help with withdrawal symptoms.
I think it would be a small number of alcoholics who decide to be and therefore just need to cope with physical withdrawals.... in fact I would find that hard to understand.
Most likely there would be mental things to deal with too and I think that is the hardest thing.... adjusting to not relying on alcohol to maintain a number of issues....be it confidence/ circumstances/ stress.....
I'm certainly not an expert, but my drinking was ruining so many aspects of my life but had a root in things that had happened. The longer I put off dealing with those issues, the more I drank and the more issues/ consequences I took on as a result... it just got out of hand. I had to stop drinking, face up to all the troubles I had and was causing and sto it getting worse.
Now, not drinking allows me to repair the things I had caused.... rather than hide away.
There is no one thing that works for anyone, but for certain this site has helped me as I have been able to connect with other peoples struggles.... dependent or not.
Just read around the site and see what approaches people took... or just ask that question.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic USA
Posts: 2,441
Originally Posted by Robert777 
Yeah real alcoholics as apposed to those who are only heavy drinkers. Those who suffer the disease of alcoholism as opposed to heavy drinkers who can stop drinking when things go bad in their lives. There IS a difference.
I'm sorry you're struggling. It's not easy for anyone IMO. You seem to believe that anyone who got sober did so without much effort. And that's just not the case.
However, I do know that you can get sober if you want it bad enough. So I'll repeat what I said before, don't give up on yourself.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
I started drinking, well... drinking seriously, at around 17. By the time I was 19 I drank every single day. For the next 4 years I tried countless times to stop, just for a day or two to give myself a break. I failed every time. I could not stop. Got to the point where the last couple of years of my drinking I was completely non functioning. Heavy drinker? Alcoholic? "Real" Alcholic? Does it matter?
I landed in detox, and then a rehab, and learned that if I wanted to live I'd have to put the bottle down for good. That was actually something I never even considered. I listened though to everything they told me cuz my options were to either continue and kill myself (literally, as in hang myself), or do as they say. I followed up with AA, a sponsor, the 12 steps, and all the suggestions that were thrown at me. In August I'll be celebrating 30 years alcohol free.
Was it easy? Yes, and no. I had crap loads of support to not pick up a drink no matter what, and taking the suggestions made the desire eventually disappear. I had some definite white knuckling experiences, and I had crippling anxiety and panic that didn't completely disappear until around the middle of my second year. I kept putting one foot in front of the other though and had a lot of patience.
The ability to be honest, open minded and willing is invaluable. It's tough, but those 3 qualities make it quite doable. And I believe that goes for anybody.
I landed in detox, and then a rehab, and learned that if I wanted to live I'd have to put the bottle down for good. That was actually something I never even considered. I listened though to everything they told me cuz my options were to either continue and kill myself (literally, as in hang myself), or do as they say. I followed up with AA, a sponsor, the 12 steps, and all the suggestions that were thrown at me. In August I'll be celebrating 30 years alcohol free.
Was it easy? Yes, and no. I had crap loads of support to not pick up a drink no matter what, and taking the suggestions made the desire eventually disappear. I had some definite white knuckling experiences, and I had crippling anxiety and panic that didn't completely disappear until around the middle of my second year. I kept putting one foot in front of the other though and had a lot of patience.
The ability to be honest, open minded and willing is invaluable. It's tough, but those 3 qualities make it quite doable. And I believe that goes for anybody.
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
I qualify and I'm sober. In some way I believe people that have drank a lot for a long time have it easier. We have so completely destroyed everything we hold near and dear so we have more incentive. In many cases if we don't quit death will be saying hello
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: BC
Posts: 557
Originally Posted by Robert777
I think there are quite a few frauds on this site if I am being honest.
I agree that it's a matter of semantics and is a moot point. If you have a problem with alcohol and want to quit, this site is a godsend. Doesn't matter how anyone defines their "problem". I am an alcoholic ... and I don't want to be that anymore. That is why I am here.
Good luck on your journey, I hope you find the answers that you are seeking.
Magsie
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 27,262
I wish I could pick up a drink and drink normally.
I could probably for a day , a week but it wouldn't be enough, I would want more.
I don't like to think I am an alcoholic but if you ask my husband and best friend I'm sure they'd say I am.
I could probably for a day , a week but it wouldn't be enough, I would want more.
I don't like to think I am an alcoholic but if you ask my husband and best friend I'm sure they'd say I am.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 567
Ok, so the BB mentions 3 basic categories, Moderate Drinker, Hard Drinker and Real Alcoholic.
It also illustrates a little bit about each 3.
So then one may ask themselves a honest question,
"Am I a Moderate Drinker, Can I take or leave alcohol alone" ?
In other words, does the bottle of cooking wine remain safely in the pantry and only used for cooking?
In my case, definitely NO
The Hard Drinker,
All I know is remembering to drink hard, thinking I will eventually build tolerance to alcohol. That my body will eventually be able to sustain all day drinking and not get into trouble.
How insane....,
The Real Alcoholic, illsustrates the Jekyl and Hyde syndrome.
Yes, I get insanely drunk and black out.
Therefore, I am a real alcoholic, that is why I don't drink.
real alcoholic means a condition of the body and mind, that when taken we cannot stop, we do absurd crazy things, hurt others and the list goes on and powerless to stop.
Hard drinkers and moderate drinker don't seem to do the things a real alcoholic does once he/she starts to drink.
Same principle a diabetic may get asked, "how many sugars in your coffee",
It's socially accepted to say, "none, I'm diabetic"
Why can't society accept, "no I don't drink alcohol, I'm alcoholic"?
They cannot accept it because they have not experienced that thing that makes you want to drink more, so if they have not had that experience, they don't know. If they don't know, they cannot help the real alcoholic. Only a recovered real alcoholic and can help a suffering real alcoholic because the recovered real alcoholic has had that very experience, he or she has walked the walk of recovery . To remain sober and spiritually fit is part of the 12th step, pass on that experience,( working with others) or perish.
It also illustrates a little bit about each 3.
So then one may ask themselves a honest question,
"Am I a Moderate Drinker, Can I take or leave alcohol alone" ?
In other words, does the bottle of cooking wine remain safely in the pantry and only used for cooking?
In my case, definitely NO
The Hard Drinker,
All I know is remembering to drink hard, thinking I will eventually build tolerance to alcohol. That my body will eventually be able to sustain all day drinking and not get into trouble.
How insane....,
The Real Alcoholic, illsustrates the Jekyl and Hyde syndrome.
Yes, I get insanely drunk and black out.
Therefore, I am a real alcoholic, that is why I don't drink.
real alcoholic means a condition of the body and mind, that when taken we cannot stop, we do absurd crazy things, hurt others and the list goes on and powerless to stop.
Hard drinkers and moderate drinker don't seem to do the things a real alcoholic does once he/she starts to drink.
Same principle a diabetic may get asked, "how many sugars in your coffee",
It's socially accepted to say, "none, I'm diabetic"
Why can't society accept, "no I don't drink alcohol, I'm alcoholic"?
They cannot accept it because they have not experienced that thing that makes you want to drink more, so if they have not had that experience, they don't know. If they don't know, they cannot help the real alcoholic. Only a recovered real alcoholic and can help a suffering real alcoholic because the recovered real alcoholic has had that very experience, he or she has walked the walk of recovery . To remain sober and spiritually fit is part of the 12th step, pass on that experience,( working with others) or perish.
That bell or bike person
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london
Posts: 4,978
From the time i realised i had a problem to this last time i gave up and it seems to have stuck was 14 years .
From the person who finds themselves unable to cope with the day without a glass of wine at the end of it to the meths drinker , I try to shine a light on those things we share in common rather than the isolation and separateness in which Alcoholism seems to thrive .
My own recovery is strengthened when i focus on what i have in common with people rather than what differentiates us , that is what i've learned .
Take care , m
From the person who finds themselves unable to cope with the day without a glass of wine at the end of it to the meths drinker , I try to shine a light on those things we share in common rather than the isolation and separateness in which Alcoholism seems to thrive .
My own recovery is strengthened when i focus on what i have in common with people rather than what differentiates us , that is what i've learned .
Take care , m
Left the bottle behind 4/16/2015
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 1,416
Originally Posted by Robert777
I am not comparing ones addiction to another. I am questioning how many people on this site are real alcoholics and who are only heavy drinkers that can stop when the consequences get too bad.
We can't get caught up in the semantics of whether one is a heavy drinker or an alcoholic. As the old commercial used to say, "If you think you have a drinking problem, you probably do." What do labels matter? If its an issue, then take the necessary steps to deal with it. If you're not a full-blown alcoholic yet, you're in luck. You can stop on your own. If you are, you are likely going to need some help.
And yes, alcoholics can recover. I have an uncle who was a hardcore alcoholic. He quit over 40 years ago. He's in his mid 80's now and healthy as a horse!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,738
Robert,
I drank a fifth of vodka a day every day and felt it was nobody's business but my own. It was only when the prospect of another day drinking was more terrifying than quitting drinking that I was able to make any headway. Four and a half years later, I still do something related to recovery every day. To me, it makes sense that I have to do that, because that's the way I drank - every day. I am an alcoholic and will be for the rest of my life, so every day I have to work my recovery.
IMO the solution has to be stronger than the problem if it's going to succeed. Have you honestly given 110% every single day, in all your previous attempts to get sober?
I drank a fifth of vodka a day every day and felt it was nobody's business but my own. It was only when the prospect of another day drinking was more terrifying than quitting drinking that I was able to make any headway. Four and a half years later, I still do something related to recovery every day. To me, it makes sense that I have to do that, because that's the way I drank - every day. I am an alcoholic and will be for the rest of my life, so every day I have to work my recovery.
IMO the solution has to be stronger than the problem if it's going to succeed. Have you honestly given 110% every single day, in all your previous attempts to get sober?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 12,000
Originally Posted by Robert777
I am not comparing ones addiction to another. I am questioning how many people on this site are real alcoholics and who are only heavy drinkers that can stop when the consequences get too bad.
Does drinking a almost a twelve pack a day and almost 1/4 bottle of vodka count?
That was when working 12 hour work days and turning it around quickly.
When I didn't have to work it was more than a case of beer easily. Plus every time I grabbed a beer I took a swig of vodka or bourbon.
Oh, but keeping a bottle in the basement cabinet, one in the garage, and the known bottles up in the liquor cupboard saved a lot of steps and were hidden opportunities to grab a swig as I walked by. Not to mention wine - never UNfinished a bottle of wine. And "forgetting" the keys or the lites to make one more trip back into the house to take another good pull on a bottle before we went out so she didn't know. She still doesn't know all of that.
Getting yelled at because the credit card told her "we" spent $7500 on alcohol last year. Then fixing that because the money maching handed out 200 dollars just like that. Getting asked why are you taking out 200 every week - where is that money going? Waking up 2 hours before her and by the time she makes a pot of coffee, I'm already six beers and shots into the morning, sure I'll have some coffee.
My neighbor told me recently that since he moved in six years ago he never saw me without a beer in my hand - NEVER. My golf bag always had little "airplane" bottles in it and at least six warm ones - didn't matter if they were cold anymore. I got twenty years of horror stories.
Getting released from jail in Glendora without a clue where I was. Walking down the street with one flip flop, an old beat up shirt and sunburned so bad I could hardly stand it. I lost the flip flop when they threw me to the ground to handcuff me. The good old days.
Just before xmas I got in trouble and lost job because of drinking. I am coming up on six months sober. I guess I was just a heavy drinker for almost 40 years. I must be cured now.
It wasn't easy! But I made a decision and stuck to it. There were times early this year that I couldn't get off the couch. I couldn't be out in the yard for more than an hour because the urge to get a beer was so great. None of this is BS.
Even us "heavy drinkers" struggle too.
Left the bottle behind 4/16/2015
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 1,416
Originally Posted by LBrain
And "forgetting" the keys or the lites to make one more trip back into the house to take another good pull on a bottle before we went out so she didn't know.
Warm beer? Couldn't give a damn. I'd drink it or liquor that sat in the car all day in the middle of August, parked in the sun.
We really are a separate species, aren't we?
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
Kind of worried bout you Robert...you haven't returned to the thread.
You were pretty disgruntled and well..combative (like seriously...frauds?).
I fear you are looking for answers in a bottle right now...rather than bothering with responses.
Really hope you come back.
Combat is healthier than drunken defeat.
You were pretty disgruntled and well..combative (like seriously...frauds?).
I fear you are looking for answers in a bottle right now...rather than bothering with responses.
Really hope you come back.
Combat is healthier than drunken defeat.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North of England
Posts: 1,442
The AA groups I attend locally consists of the usual crowd of alkies. There are those who turn up, come to a few meetings and go, never to be seen again. Then there are those who turn up, stay sober/dry for a few months, then go (having dried out enough one supposes to their own satisfaction) and then there is a core, in my small city, of perhaps 25 long term sober members who were real addicts, some close to death, some with lives that were train wrecks when they came to AA. Those guys and women are the ones I try to stay close to. If the train wrecks can recover then yours truly, with my minor bumps and scrapes, albeit with my long term alcoholic misery, certainly can.
It can be done! The evidence is there!
P.S. Just read your last post again and you do seem to be working yourself up to a potential lapse using the logic you seem to be. You are saying that real alcoholics can't quit and that those people here who do quit are therefore not alcoholics. But you are, therefore you can't quit. Therefore you must drink.
Self fulfilling lapse mate! As said above - many seriously ill and near fatal alcoholics recover.
It can be done! The evidence is there!
P.S. Just read your last post again and you do seem to be working yourself up to a potential lapse using the logic you seem to be. You are saying that real alcoholics can't quit and that those people here who do quit are therefore not alcoholics. But you are, therefore you can't quit. Therefore you must drink.
Self fulfilling lapse mate! As said above - many seriously ill and near fatal alcoholics recover.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: illinois
Posts: 907
its NOT easy. it IS worth it.
some hard truths, that i needed to have the cajones to face:
-comparing level of severity did not help me. in fact, my pro status, as someone who thought he could "hold it together", only prolonged and compounded the pain.
-if there was suddenly just no more booze in the world (a fantasy), i would live. so, in a word with booze, the question was "whos pouring this stuff down my gullet?" the answer was hard to face, but not rocket science.
-to have things change, i would actually have to change. -ugggg.
i thought hard about your "fraud" statement. i know alot of folks are weird, but im hard pressed to think of who would want to be on this site for giggles. most "normal" users i know would find this site unbearably boring.
Step up! Do the work, and claim your prize! you WILL NOT be dissapointed.
some hard truths, that i needed to have the cajones to face:
-comparing level of severity did not help me. in fact, my pro status, as someone who thought he could "hold it together", only prolonged and compounded the pain.
-if there was suddenly just no more booze in the world (a fantasy), i would live. so, in a word with booze, the question was "whos pouring this stuff down my gullet?" the answer was hard to face, but not rocket science.
-to have things change, i would actually have to change. -ugggg.
i thought hard about your "fraud" statement. i know alot of folks are weird, but im hard pressed to think of who would want to be on this site for giggles. most "normal" users i know would find this site unbearably boring.
Step up! Do the work, and claim your prize! you WILL NOT be dissapointed.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 62,153
Robert, Could it be that you expect rehab to be the answer?
It has to come from you, from within you. Rehab, therapy, medication - all those things are tools, but the motivation/movement/change has to come from you.
It has to come from you, from within you. Rehab, therapy, medication - all those things are tools, but the motivation/movement/change has to come from you.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Costa Mesa, CA
Posts: 214
The way I look at it...even if some us are just heavy drinkers who can stop when the circumstances get too bad, that made me a problem drinker at the very least and losing everything was as bad as the circumstances had to get for me to finally get sober. Was it easy? Not one little bit.
When you say Frauds on this site...do you mean some of us are here pretending to be sober and all is wonderful or some of us are not really alcoholics and just here "for the fun of it" as another poster questioned?
When you say Frauds on this site...do you mean some of us are here pretending to be sober and all is wonderful or some of us are not really alcoholics and just here "for the fun of it" as another poster questioned?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
I'm not worried about you Robert, you seem to think provoking others makes you special and different? You have no idea what anyone else on this site has been through when they decided to stop drinking and feel better.
I do not subscribe to the "disease" theory at all, it is an addiction, one that can kill you much as it did to so many others. I have never been to rehab, do not follow AA and enjoy the theory of AVRT. my life was terrible and I made so many mistakes due to alcohol. I ruined many an evening, relationships and hated myself. I wanted to stop, I am very grateful that I did, it's not perfect but life is so much better and I am less bitter and angry.
Do you want to stop? Own your reasons/behavior and give it another try....join in the 24 hour thread. wish you the best.
I do not subscribe to the "disease" theory at all, it is an addiction, one that can kill you much as it did to so many others. I have never been to rehab, do not follow AA and enjoy the theory of AVRT. my life was terrible and I made so many mistakes due to alcohol. I ruined many an evening, relationships and hated myself. I wanted to stop, I am very grateful that I did, it's not perfect but life is so much better and I am less bitter and angry.
Do you want to stop? Own your reasons/behavior and give it another try....join in the 24 hour thread. wish you the best.
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