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Don't want to throw in the towel... want to wring their necks with it!

Old 03-19-2007, 09:55 PM
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Don't want to throw in the towel... want to wring their necks with it!

Hey all...

Well, not to be negative or mean or anything whatsoever, but... sharing topic, if you so choose...

Do you ever just want to forget all of the positivity and just let your addict have it?

Well, of course we all want to yell and scream and throw things... been there, done that. Not what I am talking about. I am talking about the truth of the matter here... or lots of people's perception of the truth, anyway.

My ex-ABF is just begging to be back with me... to the extreme, all... he came over the other day and left all these sticky notes about how much he loves me around my house. I know that may sound freaky, but he was actually allowed in the house to get some of his stuff while I was gone and to try one last time to fix the pipes... so no breaking and entering here. But he actually even stuck these notes to things inside of my refrigerator... to my pillow... to items of clothing... to my freakin' box of TAMPONS, y'all!

He keeps wanting to know why... why the tides have turned, why the switch has flippped... why, why, why.

And sometimes, I just want to tell him... "You want to know why? Because I finally WISED UP! Because I finally realized that all you do is TAKE from me... because you are a person who is INCAPABLE of telling the truth... incapable of making a life for himself... and instead tries to suck some of the life out of the rest of us to feel healthy... because YOU can't make the decision to do the HARD WORK and get better... and instead expect everyone else to take care of you... because that's what you do... because that's who you are right now... and that's being a loser."

You know... I know this is a disease. Been around a little too long to argue on that one anymore... but at the end of the day... do you ever want to just say... it is because the addict won't do the WORK it takes to get sober?

I feel very empowered... this is not about trying to control him. I am writing this now because I know I don't even really want to waste the time to tell him... because it wouldn't matter... because he's not "ready". In the last few weeks, I've done what "normal" people do... with everyone. For the first time... if someone calls while I am busy... I say I'm busy! Instead of trying to talk to them distracted, or stopping what I'm doing... I say, "I'll call you back when I can!" I feel more empowered at work to tell people what my limits are too...

But the thing is... I'm not sure if I'm thinking clearly. Because what I still think... right now... is that, even though this is a disease... the addicts in my life have "chosen" not to get help... because they've been offered help, and have refused it... and although I don't want to spend time faulting them... I still feel like they just don't want it badly enough.

Anyone else ever feel like they've just had ENOUGH with people who don't want to help themselves, or accept help from their HPs?
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:04 PM
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i have and when i got there, my decision was to just holler red rock, i give up. i stop talking and started doing, just like you seem to be doing. its like it goes in one ear and out the other, whats the use.

it took for me to say all those things that you wanted to say, don't know if it was the right thing to do, but it made me feel better and helped me in my own way, to get on with living. i thought, at least he can't say that he didn't know how i felt and why, even though i knew that no matter what i said, that it wouldn't make a difference until he was ready to do something for himself, just because he was ready.
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:08 PM
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Thanks Teke.

Weird thing is... I don't even really want to tell him. I just want to make it clear to myself... and memorialize somehow... that I know it. The way I feel right now... the realization... but I wonder if it is real and helpful, or dilluted and harmful.

Either way... I guess it is whatever gets you through the day without succumbing to those codependent ways. One day at a time, right?
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:13 PM
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Amen and absolutely. I wonder if I should say the things that I want to. I really want to tell her (sister) that she is nut and the using is making her nuttier. I want to shake her and show her what her lifestyle does to us that love her, how it's aging my parents. The toll it takes on all of us. See this is where I have my hard time. It's like I DO understand that it is a disease and when she is drinking that she is really ill, but sometimes I just get so angry. We did not ask for this. We do not think that it is fun or that we should have to endure the hell that we do. But, we do. But yes, i want to tell her and show her. I understand, not the stuff you yell at each other when you are fighting about it. But the really serious stuff. Like, take a trip inside my heart and my head with me for awhile. If that didn't speed up rock bottom, I don't know what would. Love you all.
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:24 PM
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Hey Kim... right? Sometimes I just want the addicts in my life to "switch" with me for a day. They'd freakin' crumble, girl. No way in H-E-double-hockey-sticks they could handle it. But then I figure I'd have to be in their shoes if they were in mine, and I don't want to wear those suckers either.

As for "rock bottom"... the more I study... the more I think that is a giant heap of BS... there is no evidence, in my opinion, that a person has to hit rock bottom to get help. It is just that "rock bottom" generally occurs when the person has no money... no support from family or friends... no actual, phsyical place to sleep... usually no more drugs because of the lack of cash or property... or they are in jail or almost die... so they "have" to get help, or die.... or can't get the danged drugs anyway.

If a person is having a serious problem and wants to get help... I don't even believe they have to hit a "bottom" anymore. A bottom all in itself is using illegal or dangerous drugs on purpose... even if you're shooting your H or snorting cocaine off of a model's behind in your penthouse. The fact that someone would risk their lives... wealth and health... freedom... that's bottom.

Anyway... I understand what you are saying, girlie. But I realized a couple weeks ago that all I was doing was standing in the way of "bottom" by trying to cushion the fall with "l-o-v-e" (which is a sorry match for the disease of addiction, by the way)... "m-o-n-e-y"... smarts... God was trying to do something, and I was like, "No, but my way's better!"

Now the problem is that the A's in my life apparently don't want God's help either... but He loves 'em more than I do... and He's got a way better plan, I'm quite certain.
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Old 03-20-2007, 03:50 AM
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It's impossible to know what the As bottom may be. The majority never recover and death is their final demise. The disease is that powerful.

You know your reasons for deciding you've had it with
living with the negative affects of your addict. Codies reach their bottom and start to live a life they know is better for them. And you are right, telling him will not make a difference. I believe it's important you know why without having to explain to the addict how at fault they are.
For me, the why was simply this. I made a decision to to care about my son
which is very different than caring for him and remaining enmeshed in his life
of chaos. I made the decision to live my own best life whether or not he chose recovery.
Hugs
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Old 03-20-2007, 04:14 AM
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The things that I want to say to my daughter I will either bounce off my husband, my therapist or write them in a letter and not mail it. I have a drawer full of them. The problem with saying it to her is that she already knows how much she has messed up her life and hurt me. I know it is not the same but I look at it this way. If I gain ten pounds and am slightly disgusted at myself, I don't need someone to point out the obvious to me. I know that I have gained the weight, I am already unhappy with myself and it will take some work for me to lose the weight. My daughter does drugs, she hurts people and herself, she is throwing her life away. She knows that and doesn't need me to keep reinforcing it. So instead of venting on her, I vent here or other places. Then I stay away from her. I am still not quite strong enough to deal with her face to face. Yelling and screaming does no good. The addict will either turn a deaf ear or will end up yelling back. I don't like the chaos it creates. If she ever does get clean, she will have to deal with the guilt and make the amends. Hugs, Marle
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Old 03-20-2007, 05:43 AM
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this is GREAT. I feel EXACTLY as your do Trying. Just fed up to HERE with it.

I have not heard from XABF since March 2. I have informed the postmaster that he no longer is at my street address (he is using this to get a PO Box.. he is running some sort of scam to escape paying the IRS the $13k he owes them, I CC'd XABF on this as well as DMV BTW). I do not want to enable this jerk to escape the IRS or anything else, and letting him use my Addy does exactly that.

Trying.. you said the following:
""And sometimes, I just want to tell him... "You want to know why? Because I finally WISED UP! Because I finally realized that all you do is TAKE from me... because you are a person who is INCAPABLE of telling the truth... incapable of making a life for himself... and instead tries to suck some of the life out of the rest of us to feel healthy... because YOU can't make the decision to do the HARD WORK and get better... and instead expect everyone else to take care of you... because that's what you do... because that's who you are right now... and that's being a loser." ""

I had to tell myself all that stuff first.

Telling him would just waste my breath and my time and space in my head. He has gotten too much of that from me and I am not giving him anymore.
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Old 03-20-2007, 06:19 AM
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Addict here. Recovering. The way I see it, having a disease does not give me any leverage. While we cannot cure this disease, we can arrest it. And when we do that, we get our choice back. So the addicts in your lifes desrve to be told the truth of how you see them. I may be wrong, but I get the sense you are brutally honest here, but not always as honest to them (some of you)

Man, it was that brutal stinging honesty from my wife that got me to take a second look at myself. Remember, as the partners/mothers/fathers of addicts you have the benefit of sanity! I was off my head from the drugs. My reality was filled with paranoia, victimhood, self pity, etc. So my reality, while real to me, was certainly the least accepted view. So while we may know to some extent what we are doing, do not under estimate the lelvel of insanity. I was insane, truly, when I look back at how I responded to some things it would be funny were it not so sad!

Stinging reality. Even once I started to get clean, I needed that reality. No damn red carpet just for getting honest. Most people demand honesty in a relationship. I used drugs, by choice initially, got the disease eventually, so why should my wife make any allowance for honesty. Or my lack of it. Why should she have to walk on eggs because I am an addict. It is up to me to fit in - I am the one who caused the breakdown of trust. Man, to this day, 14 months on I account for money and time. I must, who on earth am I to get angry! If I do, i need some more of that hrd hitting honesty, just to remind me where I come from.

That is why I love going to NA. Addicts can give addicts the hard truth. And I need that. You see, I suffer from the only diease that tries to tell me I have no disease, and that makes me act like an addict sometimes - even though no drugs are involved. And it is then that my wife, my sponsor my fellowship call my bs and tell me to straighten out. I need that. Because when left to my own devices I am a very selfish, manipulative person.

So as I work a programme of 12 steps, so I can arrest the disease - but I must not fear that stinging honesty. It hurts sometimes, and when it realy hurts is when I must realy pay attention, because that is what I realy need to hear!

So let loose on your addicts. Tell them the brutal, honest truth. That is what brought me to my bottom. I still had my business, my car, my things, but was losing my self respect, the love of my wife, I was becomming the owner of only material things, and nothing else., No self love, no self respect. And that for me was bottom
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Old 03-20-2007, 06:32 AM
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thanks for that calabash -

last nite at an alanon meeting (my first f2f) someone said how you have to be there, listen, not scold - i just sort of blurted (i tend to do that) but that's not fair - if i'm pissed - i'm pissed and i have a right to be pissed - i can still love unconditionally but i have to be honest and say what i feel or i fear my head would explode - the leader of the beginners meeting wasn't sure how to take that but most of the other beginners were right there with me - so i appreciate what you said - makes me feel a little less insane in all the insanity of addiction - after all we are only human...

love,
s

___________
*to thine own self be true*...
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:17 PM
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Calabash...

Thanks so much for your input.

I think for now I have decided to just feel the way I want to feel - but since my ex-ABF and I are not in a relationship anymore, at least a romantic one - I'm not going to "unleash" on him unless he asks, and in a proper setting for me to react, too. I don't do namecalling... never have... I would never really call him a "loser" anyway... and don't always feel that he is... but that's the way he acts. He, too, is incredibly selfish and manipulative. Obviously... because if he were concerned about me, truly concerned and able to think about my welfare... he could cleary see that what's best for me is to be away from someone who doesn't have hold of his addiction. But I don't really fault him for that too much, since I was right there with him not seeing it for so very long. Everyone else could... except the two of us.

And then there was one.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:21 PM
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I just want to say you sound great. Keep up teh good work on you.
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Old 03-20-2007, 01:27 PM
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Hey trying,
I feel that way right now. But it doesn't do any good, because my AH has his head so far up his own arse that nothing and no one can get in. He is driving his grown sons to hate him; they both dread to see him coming. He is one big pity party, complaining about everything and everyone and acting like he has been so mistreated. It makes me sick!! I have tried so hard not to get sucked into his stuff, but it is incredibly hard when he whines about the divorce not to say:

Originally Posted by Trying_in_Texas View Post
"You want to know why? Because I finally WISED UP! Because I finally realized that all you do is TAKE from me... because you are a person who is INCAPABLE of telling the truth... incapable of making a life for himself... and instead tries to suck some of the life out of the rest of us to feel healthy... because YOU can't make the decision to do the HARD WORK and get better... and instead expect everyone else to take care of you... because that's what you do... because that's who you are right now... and that's being a loser."
Amen and amen!!
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Old 03-20-2007, 01:42 PM
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Thanks calabash for your input.
In fact, I've been there, done that.

But, when I think of this, "striking back" kind of response, I feel it doesn't do much any good. It is energy we can place elsewhere, (I'm looking at it from a Codependent point of view, since that's what I am)
And actually I think you have to ask the "why" of why, you would do that, for YOUR benefit, or the addicts.


Trying to tell a disease the way you feel, just doesn't get me anywhere.

It may make you feel better to start with, but, for me, it makes me feel worse in the long run.

Just my take on it.
I know in the beginning I really got it off my chest with my 2 sons, and I felt, afterward it was a lesson in futility. All it did was get my blood pressure up.
And strained the relationship even more.

Hugs,
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Trying_in_Texas View Post
I feel very empowered... this is not about trying to control him. I am writing this now because I know I don't even really want to waste the time to tell him... because it wouldn't matter... because he's not "ready". In the last few weeks, I've done what "normal" people do... with everyone. For the first time... if someone calls while I am busy... I say I'm busy! Instead of trying to talk to them distracted, or stopping what I'm doing... I say, "I'll call you back when I can!" I feel more empowered at work to tell people what my limits are too...
Yes, this makes perfect sense to me. And I've been in that angry, tired-of-doing-all-the-work place. I eventually got so tired of it (and the whining, and the sticky notes, and the helplessness) that I lost all respect. And that, my friend, was the end of that. I can't hang with people I don't respect, and I sure can't sleep with them, let alone build a life with them.

I can't offer any wisdom, just that I've been there and got through it and it all worked out great in the end, when I started trusting that my feelings were leading me to the right spot. Hope yours do too.

Hugs,
GL
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Old 03-21-2007, 09:19 AM
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I heard a saying once, went something like this...

When is the time to remain silent - when your words are going to fall on deaf ears.

Sometimes, there is just nothing to say that hasn't already been said. Here's to you and reaching your limit!

Sheila
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Old 03-21-2007, 09:32 AM
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GL... so understand that. I don't like to hang out with people I don't respect either... and I realized about a month ago that I wasn't even attracted to him anymore. If he were to actually go to treatment... get his own place... save some money and start being productive instead of counterproductive... who knows. It is very unlikely, and in any event, I will problably not even be available anymore by the time such work is done... and besides all that, he would be a different person if all of those things happened, so whether or not I would be attracted to him is as much of a crapshoot as it is with anyone else these days.

Sooner or later I know it will come... the time when wanting to get on with my life trumps not wanting to be "mean" to him or still being concerned that I should "be there" for him. I think it is okay that the day isn't today though... he's very sad and depressed over everything in his life right now, and although I realize that this is his burden to bear... I don't mind being an ear for him every once in awhile. Although at the start of our relationship, he really seemed to be the "life of the party", so much so that I wondered if I could keep up... three years later, the party is over and he really doesn't have any friends that aren't really just using buddies.
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Old 03-21-2007, 03:55 PM
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Trying in Texas I feel the same way. Matter of fact when my abf decided to come back after his mission on saturday which was early Sunday morning Girl... I let him have it I went off. I 've been with him for 8 months and he has relapsed 4 times. Each time I stayed positive and was very encouraging with his recovery. This time I was so fed up with it I didn't care how it would make him feel. I fiqured it was my time to be selfish. I'm not sure if it will even help but now he knows what I really think about him. And the rock bottom thing I think that is BS too. What is a persons rock bottom. I actually asked him because my ABF doesn't have anything to lose but his life. I met him in when he was in a recovery house should of been a big red flag for me but he appeared to be doing well and turned out to be a great guy. If I only knew what was ahead of me I would of ran for the hills. But for some reason it was in Gods plan for us to meet so whether it be a lesson for me or him I'm not sure. Anyway I shared my thoughts with him about the rock bottom thing I think I hurt his feelings because I was not picky about how I said things I was honest. Basically in a nutshell I said for someone who has nothing and I mean nothing besides death what is their bottom? He looked at me and said that his whole life has been his rock bottom. He has been an addict for about 14 years. Struggling with recovery. Maybe he does not try hard enough or commit 100% maybe that is why he has had no luck. I don't know I think in his case he has spent half of his life running from the problem instead of facing it. He should no by now that it is always going to sneak up on you and he will always lose.
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