Obladi

I didn't cry too much. My dear friend is a very direct and pragmatic person. She called me immediately when I texted but didn't have a lot of time to talk. So I gave her the cliff notes version of this last week. We talked about that for a few minutes, then she said, "Let me tell you what's been going on with us." This is one of the reasons the woman is my best friend. We don't talk nearly as often as we ought to, but when we do, it's an even exchange. Unless I'm in dire straits, then she gives me her all, only expecting that I will work on getting better.

Mom's response was basically, "Well, yeah. The girl is 26 years old!" I love my mom.

Two goals for the day: mow the lawn and get to a meeting. The thought of going to a meeting every day sort of grates on my nerves, but it's something I feel must be done at this time to keep me focused on sobriety. I actually mostly like them, just hate that the organization is supposedly not religious but we say The Lord's Prayer at the end of each one. How is that not religious? Do they do this everywhere or is it just in my region?

fini

no, they do certainly not do this everywhere. no meeting i have ever been to uses that prayer. never.
from what i read here, it is a more american thing.
any plans for actually using the suggested program, O?

courage2

In NYC it's much more common to do the serenity prayer although I've been to a few meetings where the speaker specifically requests the Lord's Prayer. The serenity prayer seems to be a place-holder -- "this doesn't mean anything but we're supposed to kind of pray here, mention of God optional."

I'm not religious, but I've gotten to like the Lord's Prayer quite a bit over the last couple of years. It's simple and very, very humbling.

Hawkeye13

I also am not religious, but I find other people's prayers somewhat soothing--I take the intentinal energy from the collective and compose my own shout-out to the Multiverse.

Would you mind getting my yard while you're mowing O? The upper 90 degree temps and 100% humidity have been very off-putting to me for getting yard work done. Even dusk or dawn is sticky right now.

Cow

Quote:

Originally Posted by neferkamichael

Hey Cow how ya been?

Moo Mwah Nef and all y'all!
I don't have too much to say. I didn't know what to add to my life in the post-addiction vacancy ...so I just kept subtracting. And the more I subtracted, the better I felt. I'm in the best feeling place I've ever been. ... ...CALM DOWN! I'm not happy or healthy or anything. But I have a clear, steady current running through me, which I can only call "the basic exquisiteness of being". I'm in a place of uncomplicated extistence at this time.

O, you keepa go, girl!

Obladi

Is there some sort of herd taboo that disallows the use of the word "happy?" Sheesh, woman.

What you describe to me sounds suspiciously like contentment, which some people (and the thesaurus) would call "happy." But there is of course a difference, and I think Contentment Pasture is a very good place to be.

I'm happy for you.

Obladi

fini, yes, I think I'd like to give it a go. But. I had some troubles with previous sponsors telling me "do exactly what I tell you to do," when that "to do" isn't in the book. For instance, my last sponsor didn't seem to take me at my word that Step 1 was in the bag. Which is ok; we could've talked through that. But you might remember that she wanted me to write down every single time alcohol had caused trouble in my life. First off, that sounds more in line with Step 4, but isn't even equivalent to that step as I understand it. Secondly, at that time (and maybe now too) it would have been a pretty traumatic exercise, one I would not have been comfortable doing with a lay person.

I heard a regular attendee of the Saturday meeting speak yesterday that I think might be a good candidate for sponsorship. So... yeah, walking through the steps is certainly on my mind.

We start every meeting with the Serenity Prayer. I've no objection to that because I understand the God in this prayer to be universal.

I rather like The Lord's Prayer as well. My objection to saying it in meetings is that it's Christian, therefore clearly religious as well as exclusionary. I was raised Catholic and have grown to be more of an eclectic spiritually, so it's not a personal thing for me. It just seems that I might be put off if I were Buddhist or Muslim or Jewish... And I do take that personally, if that makes sense.

I'd be happy to do it - just send it over FedEx and I'll take care of it tomorrow. It's only 85* with astoundingly low humidity of 35%. It's so very nice to have the windows open all day.

entropy1964

Cosima, I think the word 'forced' wasn't the best. I guess I'm recognizing that I am controlling....or can be. So I think its more about forcing myself to let go. I think the hardest parenting, the times I say NO and draw that line between what we both 'want' vs what we both 'need', is the best parenting. Like what O is having to do with Eldest. Clearly, or at least it seems clear to me, that would be unhealthy for both. It's not the easiest path short term for either, but will probably yield the best long term results for both.

O you are protecting yourself. But you are also doing what is best for your daughter...I really believe that.

And I guess at the end of the day we are all different people, parents and children. We do what is best for us. If keeping our kids very close as adults works, and by close I mean still parenting them, then that's great. I hope my daughter can barely stand to hear from me in her 20's. Not in a hateful way, but in a 'seriously Mom I'm busy' way.

And if I'm ******* up my life, I hope she has the strength to walk away and let me.

entropy1964

Here in Christian-ville a lot of meetings use the Lord's Prayer at the end. I just find the whole hand holding thing awkward so I barely hear it. I'm more concerned about washing my hands afterward. So there's that. But there are lots of meetings that don't use it....but for whatever reason they are after 7pm. Not sure what that's about.

It sounds like you are 'spiritual' tho so you should be able to conjure a higher power. Pretty darned important part of the whole 4,5,6 steps.

I also love that 'herd' spirituality that Hawkeye mentioned. I love love the beginning of a christian service, where they have the music, and everyone is standing and singing, hands raised to the heavens. I don't believe in God but I sure love that powerful feeling of large groups of people in praise. Its really something. But I leave once the other stuff starts. Not a very good religious person.

Cosima11

I know many people may say I'm being ridiculous but even though I consider myself to be pretty spiritual.. I still have issues with the higher power concept. To me it's unequivocally Christian, no matter how you define it.

My issue is that religious and spiritual power hierarchies often translate into political, social, and economic power hierarchies and have been used as a tool of control ever since colonization became a "thing". Seriously, it's what I studied and I have a lot to say about it but that's a can of worms I try not to open around here. Currently watching "The Family" on netflix.

Not sure if you'd still be interested O but I am still curious what Refuge Recovery meetings are like (in which case I should probably just go to one myself). They branched off from AA so there is still a process of "taking inventory" on yourself but it's not centered around character defects and prayers of removal. Also the "steps" or parts of the program don't have to be linear.. sounds about right to me.

Anyway, I would think if you could find a good fit for a sponsor, someone who is understanding of your viewpoints.. "take what you need and leave the rest" could probably apply to the spiritual/religious aspect of AA as well.

fini

Cow, gee....clear, steady current......that sounds very serene!

O, probably needless to say, i had issues with stuff in “the program” and would not choose someone who orders me to do exactly as they tell me to.
however, i cannot understand the idea of taking what you need and leaving the rest as applied to this program. how might one know what one needs and just what “the rest” is??
isn’t doing what we think we need and leaving the rest the recipe that hadn’t worked for us?
by the time i came to knowing i wanted what i could see doing “the stuff” would give, i could also see that it hinges on doing the whole thing.
it would have been worse than useless to do only what i “liked”(which wasn’t all that much;duh).
“the rest”that i would have left would most certainly have been step five and 90%of the amends, for one.
but having done them , it is obvious what i needed was/is all of it, so i’m very grateful that by the time i knew i wanted the stepwork, i knew it was a package deal.

entropy1964

I'm watching the Family also. I knew some of it from the news years ago, and the prayer breakfast gig/Russia connection. But this whole Uganda deal. Just wow. I actually just paused it and am about to continue. Yikes.

Paganism makes more sense to me than the current big 3.

Obladi

Yup, still interested in Refuge Recovery - may even find myself there this Thursday.

The step for this evening's meeting was the 9th - making amends to those I've harmed. And, like you Cos, I again had the thought that working the steps, while meant to be done sequentially for a reason, can simultaneously be fluid. Making amends is something I've learned to do in recent years and am mighty glad for it. If I feel that I may have hurt or offended someone, I try to get that sorted out just as soon as possible.

Character flaws, yeah. I certainly have them and really do try to work on addressing (or at least curtailing them), even while drinking. With drinking in the picture, a whole new set of flaws appear that I don't care about at the time. Sloth, gluttony, selfishness, So as a sober person, are those flaws I need to address? I don't think so (?), because I don't believe they are fundamentally O. I think they are characteristics or manifestations of the beast. Which is not to say those beastly things aren't within me; of course they are. But as a non-drinking person, I don't indulge them with nearly the same vengeance. I definitely don't believe people develop problems with addiction because they are flawed - but I'm not sure the AA founders thought so either.

Eldest called and nothing seemed at all awry. Here I am wailing and gnashing my teeth over the whole situation and she seems to be just fine. Go figure.

Off to bed in preparation for my big morning - first intake for IOP, then meeting with the EAP folks. Wouldn't it be amazing if EAP said, "Looks like you're doing great - you can go back to work tomorrow?" I mean, it could happen...

Cosima11

The parts of the program I can't take.. Personally I think it's completely possible to be "spiritually awakened" and still be stuck in active addiction (Alan Watts comes to mind as an example). Also completely possible to have no spiritual beliefs whatsoever and fully recover from alcoholism.

If it's a package deal, clearly I'm out after leaving those components. Yet I think everyone could benefit from the rest of it- honest self reflection, making amends, service to others.. So what I find hard to understand is why 12 steppers want to shut the door (or at least claim people "aren't going to make it") on those who aren't completely on board with the entirety of their message..

Flips, yeah if I had to label my spiritual views I'd say they're more aligned with paganism. And ironically Christianity sort of stemmed from paganism in the first place. I'm not that far yet in The Family, stopped after the first episode but look forward to watching the rest.

O, good luck with your meeting! I hope everything goes better than expected.

Stayingsassy

[I rather like The Lord's Prayer as well. My objection to saying it in meetings is that it's Christian, therefore clearly religious as well as exclusionary. I was raised Catholic and have grown to be more of an eclectic spiritually, so it's not a personal thing for me. It just seems that I might be put off if I were Buddhist or Muslim or Jewish... And I do take that personally, if that makes sense

This makes sense to me completely, and I relate to everything you’ve just said.

Though, I’m not a fan of the Lord’s Prayer. The serenity prayer, however; is brilliant, and makes sense to me on a daily basis.

I’m on the west coast so maybe it’s just different here....but it’s all handholding plus the serenity prayer at the end at every meeting I attended. No Lord’s Prayer at all, and I’ve gone to different meetings here and there for years and years.

It’s not really a part of AA in my book. How about “take what you need and leave the rest?” That part can stay.

I don’t know. The philosophy and rules and sponsorship weren’t why I went, I went to not feel alone. I’d go when feeling desperate in myself, and just wanted to be around other live human beings with alcoholism, talking about their alcoholism in all sorts of ways. That part was healing for me.

Obladi

I think fini was saying you can't pick and choose from the steps - that IS the program. Even then, the book says these are suggestions. That's one of the things that was a pleasant surprise to me; the phrase "we suggest" is smattered throughout.

Now people we encounter in meetings are another matter altogether. Most of the people I've encountered seem to prefer to think in black and white in regards to this stuff. Can't blame them - they found something that works and wouldn't change a thing in fear of losing it. And much of what they "got" is in the lexicon of group think. I don't mean this disparagingly in any way; it's more of a sociological observation. Helps me to try to understand people.

Anyhow, I think "take what you need and leave the rest" applies to what you hear in meeting shares. Those shares are from regular everyday everybodies, so the content may vary in relevance and quality.

Ok, I gotta put the rush on now - wish for the most healthy outcomes for me, please.

xo

Dropsie

Thinking of you, hope today goes well. Whatever it is, you got this.

entropy1964

Good luck today O.

Hawkeye13

Morning all

I find SR gives me the group connect I want.
I don't like facetoface stuff too much.

But you do have to be proactive if you are creating you own recovery program--

Obladi

I didn't realize more than an hour would be required at IOP intake, so opted to cut that sort to see what EAP had to say. If this program wasn't going to meet EAP criteria, best to find that out first.

EAP was surprising! Though he wasn't willing to say the words, it seems he'll be recommending that I return to work. They have a meeting every Wednesday to adjudicate cases such as mine.

As long as my therapist is on board (and I think he will be), I may be back to work as early as Thursday.

Power's out. Chat with you all later when I can use a keyboard instead of my phone.