Oh Well Part 2
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: German Village, Columbus with my love ♥
Posts: 88,521
I love your avatar, and your username, of course.....every time I see you I go all:
"Desmond has a barrow in the market store, Molly is a singer in the band...."
I love that song. xx
"Desmond has a barrow in the market store, Molly is a singer in the band...."
I love that song. xx
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
Yeah sad, I didn’t realize there was anything even happening in the Bahamas, I live under a rock sometimes..
How was the gym O? I finally went to a hiking meetup (without my real estate buddy cause her life is far busier than mine) and it really kicked my ass. There are real mountains in this state. Pretty sure I was the youngest one but I had to stop and sit after half an hour and then turn around. So yoga may be strength and endurance but it’s not cardio.. and apparently doing stairs for 20 mins at the gym every once in a while is not sufficient.
I want to keep doing it tho. There’s nothing quite like feeling connected to nature (which effortlessly seems to connect people too).
How was the gym O? I finally went to a hiking meetup (without my real estate buddy cause her life is far busier than mine) and it really kicked my ass. There are real mountains in this state. Pretty sure I was the youngest one but I had to stop and sit after half an hour and then turn around. So yoga may be strength and endurance but it’s not cardio.. and apparently doing stairs for 20 mins at the gym every once in a while is not sufficient.
I want to keep doing it tho. There’s nothing quite like feeling connected to nature (which effortlessly seems to connect people too).
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Yeah the Bahamas got crushed. I sure hope the British do a better job of directing their relief than the US did for Puerto Rico. Drops, is your homestead in the clear now? It looks very gloomy this morning in Maryland, like we're seeing the far northern edge of the storm, but it seems we're safe.
Thanks for the compliments venuscat. Pull up a chair and stick around for a chat if you like. I'm getting boring now that I don't drink.
The gym was a bust, Cos. The trainer was double-booked, which I found out when he came out 30 minutes late to meet me. I said, "Let's do this another day" because I didn't feel like being rushed through or doing only half the thing. So we have a new appt set for Friday afternoon.
However! I did finally go to Refuge Recovery last night, which in this area is now Dharma Recovery because apparently there was some sort of rift. Anyhow, it was much like a meditation AA meeting. We started with standard readings about the principles, did about 20 minutes of guided meditation, read a very brief description of the 3rd truth (?), which is that life is suffering, suffering is caused by our perception, and that suffering can be eliminated. I probably said that wrong, but essentially the idea is that we control our own minds by how we frame our stories. People then shared their responses, and the meeting ended with another standard reading. I'll go back at least a couple more times to see how it "feels."
Physically: Headache that requires ibuprofen
Mentally: A bit overwhelmed by all of the everything; something is going to need to give soon. Perhaps the ATS program altogether, definitely the ATS groups. My counselor there is going to consult with my therapist to see what he thinks.
Emotionally: Mainly neutral with some fringe anxiety about revisiting Step 4.
Alright. I'm determined to be On Time to work today, so I'm off!
Thanks for the compliments venuscat. Pull up a chair and stick around for a chat if you like. I'm getting boring now that I don't drink.
The gym was a bust, Cos. The trainer was double-booked, which I found out when he came out 30 minutes late to meet me. I said, "Let's do this another day" because I didn't feel like being rushed through or doing only half the thing. So we have a new appt set for Friday afternoon.
However! I did finally go to Refuge Recovery last night, which in this area is now Dharma Recovery because apparently there was some sort of rift. Anyhow, it was much like a meditation AA meeting. We started with standard readings about the principles, did about 20 minutes of guided meditation, read a very brief description of the 3rd truth (?), which is that life is suffering, suffering is caused by our perception, and that suffering can be eliminated. I probably said that wrong, but essentially the idea is that we control our own minds by how we frame our stories. People then shared their responses, and the meeting ended with another standard reading. I'll go back at least a couple more times to see how it "feels."
Physically: Headache that requires ibuprofen
Mentally: A bit overwhelmed by all of the everything; something is going to need to give soon. Perhaps the ATS program altogether, definitely the ATS groups. My counselor there is going to consult with my therapist to see what he thinks.
Emotionally: Mainly neutral with some fringe anxiety about revisiting Step 4.
Alright. I'm determined to be On Time to work today, so I'm off!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,434
You are busy O. The meeting sounds hopeful to me. We only have AA with too big a dose of religion embedded in it around here.
Yes, reducing stuff sounds like a good plan. May I also suggest starting the day with a glass of water to which a pinch of salt has been added? When you lose weight as you have been your body mobilizes a great deal of electrolytes to “break in” to fat cells. This needs to be replaced or you can get some major headaches.
Doin’ great
Yes, reducing stuff sounds like a good plan. May I also suggest starting the day with a glass of water to which a pinch of salt has been added? When you lose weight as you have been your body mobilizes a great deal of electrolytes to “break in” to fat cells. This needs to be replaced or you can get some major headaches.
Doin’ great
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Just out of curiosity: do people usually include things on the 4th step inventory that happened far outside of the time frame of their alcoholism? Like things from childhood? I can see how sometimes those may be relevant to the development of an addiction later, but still... I guess we could then inventory our entire lives and assume everything is related to the addiction.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: German Village, Columbus with my love ♥
Posts: 88,521
I was just talking about this here the other day....I got so upset writing my fourth step, and called my sponsor in tears because I kept going further and further back, and gosh it was painful....and she told me that the steps are meant to help us heal, not cause us harm. She told me to stop, I had written enough, and then I went over and shared it with her. And she was awesomely funny, and she said "Poof, and now it's all gone." And it really is. xx
xx
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
That's awesome O! Yeah I'm paraphrasing here and changed a few words but from the book "Dancing With Life":
"Buddah reveals that suffering has a cause, and that cause is craving, meaning that you cling to and identify with what you desire. If unchecked that desire causes the mind to contract as it idealizes and attaches to the imagined outcome. In other words, you have created an illusory self whose happiness and well being depend on getting what it wants."
So we cannot eliminate pain which is an inevitable part of life, but we can eliminate the subjective suffering that usually comes with it by detaching from our clinging to the desired outcome. Or something like that.
"Buddah reveals that suffering has a cause, and that cause is craving, meaning that you cling to and identify with what you desire. If unchecked that desire causes the mind to contract as it idealizes and attaches to the imagined outcome. In other words, you have created an illusory self whose happiness and well being depend on getting what it wants."
So we cannot eliminate pain which is an inevitable part of life, but we can eliminate the subjective suffering that usually comes with it by detaching from our clinging to the desired outcome. Or something like that.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
I don't know Aellyce. I believe the church taught me "The Age of Reason" was 7; that's the age when a person should be able to distinguish right from wrong, which in my mind, extrapolated to being involved with bad things. I haven't shaken that yet. Like, if I feel resentments or pain or self-pity for things that happened in my childhood, where is the line? Do I become responsible or accountable when I started drinking heavily at 16? Am I responsible for harm I intentionally or unintentionally caused that was solely due to drinking? Good things to ask my sponsor, I think.
fini, as a sponsor, what's your view on this?
Did I mention that partial disability was approved? Much to my surprise and delight, it covered just under 21 hours of the 25 I was out the last two weeks. I'm so tired every day after work that I've been fantasizing about how long I can stick with this deal. A quick review of benefits points to 6 months! But it shouldn't be that long, so I'm comforted at the thought.
fini, as a sponsor, what's your view on this?
Did I mention that partial disability was approved? Much to my surprise and delight, it covered just under 21 hours of the 25 I was out the last two weeks. I'm so tired every day after work that I've been fantasizing about how long I can stick with this deal. A quick review of benefits points to 6 months! But it shouldn't be that long, so I'm comforted at the thought.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
well, my perspective is that addiction and alcoholism are not the same, and that is how i perceive the BB to be describing it. and i don’t mean that in reference to the so-called drug of choice.
so for me, alcoholism is a “condition” i have, though i certainly am not addicted any more and don’t have an addiction.
as such, the 12-step program i experience as being the way i “deal with” living with this condition, such that i do not suffer from it.
as far as harms done and the inventory, i included one specific harm i had done when i was about 13, which was really already part of a pattern of how i dealt with feeling /being powerless by trying to grab power over someone weaker than me. in a way that scared them at the time.
(oddly, when i made amends it turned out they had absolutely no memory of it whatsoever.)
anyway, i am not currently a sponsor, just saying, and i don’t speak for what “should” be included.
for me, 4 and 5 were very much about recognizing patterns of my behaviour.
so for me, alcoholism is a “condition” i have, though i certainly am not addicted any more and don’t have an addiction.
as such, the 12-step program i experience as being the way i “deal with” living with this condition, such that i do not suffer from it.
as far as harms done and the inventory, i included one specific harm i had done when i was about 13, which was really already part of a pattern of how i dealt with feeling /being powerless by trying to grab power over someone weaker than me. in a way that scared them at the time.
(oddly, when i made amends it turned out they had absolutely no memory of it whatsoever.)
anyway, i am not currently a sponsor, just saying, and i don’t speak for what “should” be included.
for me, 4 and 5 were very much about recognizing patterns of my behaviour.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
O my perspective on the abuse is that you had no part or fault in it whatsoever. No one could or should expect you to have continued bearing that so that others wouldn't have to. The responsibility lies solely with your brother on that. I'm sorry it's caused a strain in your relationship with your sisters. Which is again not your fault. It's one thing to say to them "I'm sorry that happened to you too" and another to say "I'm sorry I caused that to happen to you", because you were not the cause.
Well now I'm confused, is it a condition you have or is it who you are? And how exactly is alcoholism different from addiction? Not trying to be argumentative but understand if you don't wish to engage in a conversation about these semantics.
Originally Posted by fini 
well, my perspective is that addiction and alcoholism are not the same, and that is how i perceive the BB to be describing it. and i don’t mean that in reference to the so-called drug of choice.
so for me, alcoholism is a “condition” i have, though i certainly am not addicted any more and don’t have an addiction.
so for me, alcoholism is a “condition” i have, though i certainly am not addicted any more and don’t have an addiction.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
Fini,
I have the same quesiton as Cos, feel free to ignore it, but I gotta ask.
So, I smoked cigarettes until I was 21 and quit. I have never smoked again.
Same with drinking. I drank, stopped, have never drunk again.
Yet I know (believe) if I pick up either, I will smoke/drink again in the same manner as I did when I stopped. Watching others, this happens with cigs even faster than booze.
I say that this is because I am addicted to both, but in remission. Not gone, but as long as I dont partake, in remission.
How does this compare to your views?
And again, no need to reply.
O,
Miami got spared, so everyone and everything is fine there. But if the Brits handle the Bahamas like they have done Brexit, not good.
X
I have the same quesiton as Cos, feel free to ignore it, but I gotta ask.
So, I smoked cigarettes until I was 21 and quit. I have never smoked again.
Same with drinking. I drank, stopped, have never drunk again.
Yet I know (believe) if I pick up either, I will smoke/drink again in the same manner as I did when I stopped. Watching others, this happens with cigs even faster than booze.
I say that this is because I am addicted to both, but in remission. Not gone, but as long as I dont partake, in remission.
How does this compare to your views?
And again, no need to reply.
O,
Miami got spared, so everyone and everything is fine there. But if the Brits handle the Bahamas like they have done Brexit, not good.
X
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Glad to hear your family and home are safe, Drops. I'll now move along to thinking good thoughts for the folks on the often-battered Eastern Shore.
I don't have much to say this morning aside from babbling thoughts, so am going to keep those to myself until they sort into some semblance of order.
Physically: Still itchy; going to work on paying no never mind to it today.
Mentally: Gearing up for 7 hours at work today, followed by group.
Emotionally: Stubborn? Recalcitrant? Something like that.
Today marks the beginning of my second month free of alcohol. I've put my order in for super goggles so they'll be here in time to recognize the sneaky conniving beast the very moment it starts to stir. It's tried, but thus far made no progress. "Hey, O - you could stop taking the antabuse; then we could drink next week." "Yeah, no. I don't want to drink next week. Go away." *silence*
I don't have much to say this morning aside from babbling thoughts, so am going to keep those to myself until they sort into some semblance of order.
Physically: Still itchy; going to work on paying no never mind to it today.
Mentally: Gearing up for 7 hours at work today, followed by group.
Emotionally: Stubborn? Recalcitrant? Something like that.
Today marks the beginning of my second month free of alcohol. I've put my order in for super goggles so they'll be here in time to recognize the sneaky conniving beast the very moment it starts to stir. It's tried, but thus far made no progress. "Hey, O - you could stop taking the antabuse; then we could drink next week." "Yeah, no. I don't want to drink next week. Go away." *silence*
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: US
Posts: 5,095
Good Morning Peeps!
Hi O! Second Month? That is great. And wtf...time is just flying by. Crazy. And if you can get disability for 6 months I say, go for it if that will help you. That must have been a relief and a nice upside! You deserve it.
Yeah Bahamas. Just awful. Cos don't feel bad, I said something yesterday to my daughter and she said 'What happened?'. In a way, not a bad thing. You're busy. When I lived in Hawaii during Iniki I didn't know about the hurricane until it was happening. I had no radio, no teli, no phone, pre internet and no one, and I mean no one, was talking about it. We even went up hiking to the volcano the day before, where it is ALWAYS cool, and it was roasting. Didn't think to ask? Hmmmm why is this? So I didn't know about a hurricane that was about to hit us. Oops. Thankfully I wasn't living on Kauai. Crazy how this stuff happens. If you aren't in the eye, it often isn't that bad. I mean, the waves were crazy, flooding, roads closed due to boats being washed up...crazy wind. But that's it. Kauai was flattened.
The whole addiction vs alcoholism is something I talked a little about in another thread. Or maybe here. Anyway, we still have hard liners meetings that won't let addicts share because they believe alcoholism is 'different'. I don't agree but that's just my opinion/experience. Whatever works is good by me. However we need to perceive, think, label, judge, exist in order to stay sober seems like a good 'program' to me.
Hi O! Second Month? That is great. And wtf...time is just flying by. Crazy. And if you can get disability for 6 months I say, go for it if that will help you. That must have been a relief and a nice upside! You deserve it.
Yeah Bahamas. Just awful. Cos don't feel bad, I said something yesterday to my daughter and she said 'What happened?'. In a way, not a bad thing. You're busy. When I lived in Hawaii during Iniki I didn't know about the hurricane until it was happening. I had no radio, no teli, no phone, pre internet and no one, and I mean no one, was talking about it. We even went up hiking to the volcano the day before, where it is ALWAYS cool, and it was roasting. Didn't think to ask? Hmmmm why is this? So I didn't know about a hurricane that was about to hit us. Oops. Thankfully I wasn't living on Kauai. Crazy how this stuff happens. If you aren't in the eye, it often isn't that bad. I mean, the waves were crazy, flooding, roads closed due to boats being washed up...crazy wind. But that's it. Kauai was flattened.
The whole addiction vs alcoholism is something I talked a little about in another thread. Or maybe here. Anyway, we still have hard liners meetings that won't let addicts share because they believe alcoholism is 'different'. I don't agree but that's just my opinion/experience. Whatever works is good by me. However we need to perceive, think, label, judge, exist in order to stay sober seems like a good 'program' to me.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Group yesterday afternoon was about spirituality. The guy came in 15 minutes late. I'd wager they charge insurance for 45 minutes even if they do only 30; it's pretty common for the group counselor to straggle in late. Anyhow, he seemed to be a pretty hip guy. Did a bit of a riff on the word spirituality - splitting it Talmudic-style into "spiritual + ritual." With which I do not agree, but whatever. There were 3 guys there with me, two of whom monopolized the "conversation," one who said nothing, and I said close to nothing being as group seems to be more like "class with free-style commentary regardless if it's actually not the point."
The counselor for this evening's group was only 20 minutes late. The lesson was on Planning Things. We can plan to go to school, or go to work, or go to AA or a sober dance, or go to a movie... This time it was 5 guys and me, 4 guys going off on tangents, the guy next to me just tossing in phrases in between sleeping; I said even less than yesterday.
No more groups.
Nuff said.
Griping done.
The counselor for this evening's group was only 20 minutes late. The lesson was on Planning Things. We can plan to go to school, or go to work, or go to AA or a sober dance, or go to a movie... This time it was 5 guys and me, 4 guys going off on tangents, the guy next to me just tossing in phrases in between sleeping; I said even less than yesterday.
No more groups.
Nuff said.
Griping done.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
“Well now I'm confused, is it a condition you have or is it who you are? And how exactly is alcoholism different from addiction? Not trying to be argumentative but understand if you don't wish to engage in a conversation about these semantics.“
well both. i am an alcoholic, which to me is equivalent to having alcoholism. from which i consider myself recovered, not cured.
but this really is how my experience meshes with the AA “view”, and as such it will be semantics to many though obviously not to me.
addiction... imo relates to being addicted to a substance (or behaviour) and engaging actively. so after i quit smoking, i am now not a nicotine addict.
though i was a smoker for over 30years, it never touched me at the core, so to speak, and though i say i was “a smoker”, i actually didn’t experience it as an identity. alcoholic is much different for me there.
don’t know if that touches on your comments also, Dropsie.
O, i appreciate you cannot translate it and neither can i.
for me, it requires no translation.
mostly, i feel never the twain shall meet. and i don’t mean that in a bad way.
and yes, O, i think we are responsible for harm we intentionally or unintentionally caused solely due to drinking. or not solely due to drinking. we are responsible for harm we caused, period. not saying there are no mitigating circumstances, duress, et cetera. nevertheless, we are responsible.
well both. i am an alcoholic, which to me is equivalent to having alcoholism. from which i consider myself recovered, not cured.
but this really is how my experience meshes with the AA “view”, and as such it will be semantics to many though obviously not to me.
addiction... imo relates to being addicted to a substance (or behaviour) and engaging actively. so after i quit smoking, i am now not a nicotine addict.
though i was a smoker for over 30years, it never touched me at the core, so to speak, and though i say i was “a smoker”, i actually didn’t experience it as an identity. alcoholic is much different for me there.
don’t know if that touches on your comments also, Dropsie.
O, i appreciate you cannot translate it and neither can i.
for me, it requires no translation.
mostly, i feel never the twain shall meet. and i don’t mean that in a bad way.
and yes, O, i think we are responsible for harm we intentionally or unintentionally caused solely due to drinking. or not solely due to drinking. we are responsible for harm we caused, period. not saying there are no mitigating circumstances, duress, et cetera. nevertheless, we are responsible.
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