entropy1964

Thanks O. I guess when it boils down to it I don't have much faith in myself. But most of the time I don't ponder that. I just don't drink, and things will continue on. I just know for sure that her happiness/contentment cannot depend on me and mine cannot depend on her. We have a very close relationship, which I treasure. But it can be enmeshed too and that isn't healthy. I dunno. I guess when she mentions my abstinence time I'm forced to think about its permanence or potential lack of permanence. I just don't like to go there...if that makes sense. Its like my birthday...yeah yeah I'm a year older. Really just a day older but whatever.

I'm swimming now too! Well sort of. What a production swimming is. So I bought the neon pink cap for long hair. Check. Then the goggles. Check. Oh and the ear plugs. Check. Got the kick board. Check. Put on the one piece that I haven't worn in 10 years, still fits. Check. Towels. Bags for wet stuff. Flip flops. Yadda yadda. Went to the pool, actually swam. But my darn goggles are like suction cups. So I ended up looking like a raccoon after swimming. Wtf. And I'm like NOOOOO not my tender eye skin...like I need anymore damage there. So, returned shite goggles and bought Aqua sphere vista's for women. Ok. Have yet to try them. Maybe today. Its just such a darn production. And darn I'm slow because I can't breath. Running is so much easier...but my darn knee won't let me. So today I did spin. Ha! Anyway, stay tuned on my new swimming adventure.

Socks in the shower. Yeah, I've been in that situation multiple times. Small price to pay but it does make one really appreciate one's home space.

Obladi

Thanks, Tats. Join me; the water is fine.

Speaking of bathing suits... I took Eldest to brunch today and it was a-ok. Asked her if she'd like to help me to find a bathing suit after and she was game for that, as she's been asking me to go to the pool with her. Great hilarity ensued as we traveled from a Big Lady store to a discount store to another discount store to Walmart. Alas, there were no suits to be found anywhere - the first week in August! Ok, truth be told, we did find some snazzy sparkly numbers with gaping peeping holes in the side. Not quiiiiite my style. But we had great fun giggling at all of the kitsch in the discount stores. Her particular favorite was a set of full size sheets adorned with cartoon sharks. "Mom, what would I do if I went home to some guy's house and he had these sheets on his bed?!" After that, we spotted shark things everywhere - I guess it's a thing.

Really, I hate shopping. But it's something she wanted to do with me when she was a teenager and we rarely did. So... maybe a little redemption there. I never did ask what was with the extremely low affect on the phone the last week or so. Perhaps it's absolutely none of my business; and that's ok now that I've seen her in person.

Flips, I think I get what you mean. Sort of like praise is a set-up for failure, or any fall would be made worse for having been congratulated? You don't have to crow over it or anything, but it was still a very sweet thing for her to say.

Meeting with my therapist today went really well. I'll probably write more about that tomorrow because I'd like to know what you think.

The topic of the meeting tonight was supposedly the 1st step, but it was also to have been an anniversary celebration for an old-timer who had a bad reaction to a vaccine so couldn't attend. It turned into this odd sort of wake for a person who is still alive. I was a fish out of water, for sure. I did not stay for the circle recital of The Lord's Prayer. I'm in general uncomfortable with this tradition, but felt even more so tonight.

p.s. actually experienced a "trigger" today; that doesn't usually happen. usually, I just find myself deciding to drink for no apparent reason. (scuse me broster, used to find myself deciding...) anyhow, didn't drink.

Zevin

Obladi, what was the trigger? (if it's not too personal of a question)

Obladi

Zevin, that's fine. Ask away anytime.

Driving to one of the many stores, the radio announcer said, "That ends our Friday noon menu, so now it's officially the weekend." I had this sudden intake of breath, like a shock response, and thought one word, "Drink!"

I let 5 or 10 minutes go by and was still feeling anxious, so told Eldest (also an alcoholic) about it, and how ridiculous it was because every day was drink day to me. She said, "Get over it." To which I replied, "Bi+ch. Thanks for your loving compassion." We laughed and the urge was (almost entirely) gone.

Hawkeye13

Good morning O

Funny what things trigger us but glad the urge passed quickly. Eldest sounds like she has a good sense of humor. Must come from her mom.

I am glad you are teetotal and connecting with others. Kid, therapist, AAers, us.
Life is better shared.

Off to the lake soon. I will try to drive at reasonable speed this time

Obladi

Just don't pass anyone, unless it's a tractor - you can probably do that within the speed limit!

Obladi

Ok, so the therapist. First off, I've been dying to tell you that my best friend calls him Daniel Tiger. This is because, well first off his name is Daniel. But when speaking with my friend, I described this very gentle man who speaks in a consistently soothing tone, something like Daniel Tiger from Mr Rogers Neighborhood. From that day forward, she has always referred to him as Daniel Tiger. I've never told him that. Perhaps one day, like if we ever finish therapy. (I watched some episodes of that show on youtube later and that was one way out there show. I guess it was the era. Also, they sound not at all the same. Nevertheless...)

One of the things we talked about yesterday is how I fear this absence will damage my street cred at work. Here I was leading several major projects, and now I'm likely to fall off the planet for a month or more. I've convinced myself that my job is most probably not in jeopardy as I've "only" one verbal warning on file. But how likely is it that I'll have the chance to lead up any high profile project anytime in the foreseeable future? Not very.

We all know that I take great pride in my work and I assure you that I've been held in very high regard. This is the area in my life where I feel most confident - it's been my primary source of satisfaction and self-worth. So... if I lose that superstar status, then what?

Then that leaves what is logically the best thing for me, to pivot and work on creating a satisfying life for myself. Daniel Tiger says, "How does that make you feel?" Good long pause while I rummage through the closet for a feeling... "Intimidated." He says, "That instinctively sounds true to me, but what do you mean?" "I mean, it means I need to change almost every single thing about how I go about living. It means stretching in every direction, and all of them are uncomfortable."

I think it needs to be done, and you know I've started. So now I need to shower to go to what used to be my favorite meeting but is totally intimidating today because I'm going to be making at least my third reappearance from underground. "Hi! Great to see you O! (let's just see if she sticks around this time)"

entropy1964

O I relate to having to move away from a job that is self defining. Mine has been parenting. Since I'm not moving to my folks house (insta purpose) I now have to find mine. For me. Ugh. And yeah, its intimidating. Or for me, scary. She moves out in 13 days......

I hope everything at work comes together over time. But 'diversifying', finding a sense of you in multiple areas, is a great idea.

Try a sporting goods store for the suit if you want to buy it through brick and mortar.

Hawkeye13

Funny but I think I also am dealing with this as my retirement has become a reality on a two year horizon now.


Hmmm

Stayingsassy

Whenever I’m losing it in my life, like with drink, depression, major issues with the husband, grief; you name it: my oldest daughter falls in to a very low, low. Once, she ended up 5150’d from cutting. That was her first year in college. She’s a high IQ aspergers, no drinking thank goodness, but I’ve always noticed she rises and falls with me. I guess that is the nature of a human social group. She’s doing well looking for work under her engineering degree, volunteering at an animal shelter, has some big interviews lined up. But when she leaves me, or I “leave” her....along the lines of your bad week last week....she crashes.

They still need us. Adults they are, but they need their moms. Especially if dad is not a nurturer....which my husband is not.

I love your stories of connecting with eldest. Sounds like you had a wonderful time. Treasure those times, sober, with your family, that’s going to matter a lot when you are hit with cravings.

entropy1964

Hmmm. I do essentially agree with you Sassy. But I also disagree based on reality....so now it sounds like I'm just arguing. But for whatever reason, I don't agree that my daughters happiness is dependent on me. It can't be. Just as my happiness can't be dependent on her. I mean, I believe this is even more true for the child of an addict.

I mean, in a perfect world, I would never relapse. I'd be consistent and always there. I'd have my shlit together and would never falter. In a way, that is what my daughter's father is like. I mean, not totally but pretty close. The reality is tho she doesn't know him at all. He locks her, and everyone else, out so that she doesn't 'know' who or what he actually is. She talks to me about this a lot. He isn't 'knowable' he isn't emotionally there. I dunno. That's kind of a tangent.

I didn't have either of my parents. Ever. And yeah it was a dysfunctional alcoholic family. And yeah, I struggled. But I haven't completely failed. Far from it. So I learned, the hard way, that I had to rely on me.

I want my adult child to be totally independent of me. I mean, completely. Is that some kind of pipe dream? Or am I forever going to be graded on my behavior and my seeming 'together-ness'?

I don't know why I've said 'I mean' so many times. I guess because I'm struggling with this idea. But seriously, at what point does my daughter become her own person? Until I force it, right? But isn't that what growing up is all about, learning her own emotional strength, her own independence? Learning that life is up and down. And that people, sorry, can be very disappointing?

Yikes. I guess that's my truth.

Obladi

Been working hard on putting my basement "guest room" back together as best as I can for the moment. Given other financial pressures, replacing drywall where the crack in the foundation was repaired, replacing the tile that was water-logged many times, and painting are going to need to wait. But I can get it up to "visiting kid" standards and am almost there. Putting good use to the new washer and dryer too, given that the linens on all three beds need cleaning.

The meeting this morning was very good, as it almost always is. I was welcomed with open arms; silly to have worried. The chair read from the story of a housewife who found grace through shame, defeat and failure. Most people responded to that with references to surrendering. I was interested to hear the differing definitions of what that word means to different people. My favorite came from a guy who said that when he looked the word up in the dictionary, the first definition was "stop fighting." fini, this guy also quoted the sentence from the Big Book that refers to losing the power to choose whether to drink or not - I thought of how many different times and ways you've posed that riddle to me.

Eldest just called to chat, saying she did "pretty good" last night because she had just one drink. More chatting ensued, then she mentioned she'd had a martini and ice cream for breakfast. (Look! There's another trigger - not hearing her say it, but writing it down here.) I said, no amount of alcohol is ok for you, E. She said, "Look who's talking, just got out of the hospital Mom." Then quickly, "I'm sorry - that was mean." I replied, "No, you're right. I'm sure I sound judge-y. I'm just saying that neither one of us has any business drinking." More chatting about this n that, then "So can I move into your basement?" I told her I was very sorry but my answer had to be no because I need to take care of myself first. She said, "But I can help - I help you, don't I?" What could I say but "sure you do, but this is something I have to do on my own." I guess I could've said, "No, for the most part I help you," but there was no need to go there. I did tell her I'd be willing to pay for her to live in a sober home - that met with silence. She moved on to a bit more chatting before we said our "love you, bye"s.

I'm feeling less than steady right now, but I'll get through it. I want to pick up the phone and talk this all through, make it all right - get her to understand that at 27 she needs to learn to stand on her own, that I hate how it must feel like the rug is being pulled out from under her since she's losing my financial support at the end of the month, that I feel like I ruined a great day together by saying no to her. And have her assure me that she understands. I won't make the call, of course. It's not up to her to tell me I made the right decision for myself. I know I did. It's just sort of shredding my guts right now.

But I most certainly will call someone else who loves me so I can have a good cry over this.

Obladi

Flips, it took me so long to write that last post that I didn't see yours until just now.

Word, sister.

Cosima11

It’s not a pipe dream. I wish my parents had wanted that for me, it’s what I wanted for myself. Instead I always felt like their well being was my responsibility and my living out of state was “too hard on them”. Of course that just culminated in all sorts of power struggles and now I feel I absolutely can’t and won’t go to them for advice (even if I need it) because it’s always been more about control than them considering what’s actually in my best interest. My half sister is 16 years younger than me, and although it was “not planned” I sincerely believe my mom had her because my sister and I were getting older and my mom literally doesn’t know who she is without being a parent.

In terms of your daughter becoming her own person.. I don’t know about forcing anything, but I do think maintaining healthy boundaries is key. As the more experienced adult I suppose that does start with you.

Sorry for the tangent but I think looking beyond the things that “define” us is almost always a good idea. Who would you be without work or parenting? The beauty of it is you already are that person, you just have to start peeling back the layers and getting to know what really brings you joy and fulfillment outside of those things.

Cosima11

Also for what it’s worth I think you’re making the right call with eldest O.. Her dependence on alcohol is probably enmeshed with her dependence on you and standing on her own is probably the only way to start untangling it all.

Hawkeye13

Agree totally

neferkamichael

Obaldi, rootin for ya.

Hey Cow how ya been?

Obladi

Thanks Cos and Hawk; yes. I told her several months ago that I worried that supporting her was supporting her habit. Shouldn't be the end of the world - she'll just need to find another job in addition to the current very part-time gig. And fit it around school. Nothing different than I (and many others) had to do.

I thank all of my wise friends here for helping me to think through this decision (well, and Cow for knocking me upside the head) and I thank Daniel Tiger for his uncharacteristically direct and negative response to the idea. He also helped me to form my answer to her request in a way that was about me and not about her.

And it was truthful. I need to protect my sobriety with everything I've got. I love the kid, but I don't need or want a roommate at this time - particularly one who would be nagging at me about activities she feels I ought to be doing. (Silks? No thanks. Learn to hula hoop? Maybe one day, if I feel like it. Paint the living room? Definitely plan on doing that - on my own time.) Well and particularly one who might decide to have a martini for breakfast.

The basement is as done as it's going to be for now. Doing dirty exhausting work can be helpful therapy.

fini

definitely make decisions that are good for you, O.
ultimately, you are also modelling the responsibility for self-care and sobriety to her.
and she is quite deluded to think she would be helping you with your new abstinence when she is drinking.

yeah, losing the power of choice. thought about this morning, after logging off here.
it still makes no intellectual sense . and yet, it was my experience. at times, i couldn’t not drink.
baffling alright.

and glad to hear you have someone whose shoulder you can cry on.
not too long, huh?

Obladi

I was thinking the other day that my style of writing directly to "you" might seem cliquish,. It's not meant that way at all. When I started here lo those many years ago, I felt somewhat awkward, like I was writing into a void. It felt like journaling, and that wasn't going to work out - I've always discarded that writing because it somehow felt "fake." So I decided to write to you, whoever you may be.

I feel very fortunate to have encountered an assortment of people that regularly read and contribute, which definitely has made this a "real" correspondence. It's so helpful to me and I hope that sometimes it's helpful to others as well.

All of which is to say, anyone is welcome to jump in here at any time. The circle always has room for one more.