Fusion

I’m not that clever, O. I meant nothing of the sort. I merely meant for you to perhaps, consider what your LOC is. By LOC I mean accountability, to oneself, internal, or an outside source, is probably more aligned with my original intent in posting to you. And if it is external, then for your sake, sobriety-wise, it might be preferable to keep up with the AA meetings and Antabuse. That was all. No superiority intended, whatsoever.

Stayingsassy

I like Hawkeyes idea of throwing everything at it that you can, because we are hard core dangerous drinkers and honestly we don’t have the luxury of getting rid of methods in the first year or two when we really just need to get sober, anyway we possibly can.

I realize everyone is different and my plan to focus on the internal drive is simply not going to work for everyone, especially if the aversion to drinking isn’t strong enough. I hated it by the time I quit. I hated it with a passion.

Tasty, since you and I have resonated strongly with AVRT, I think that’s where our language comes from in here.

Obladi, I think you’re doing great. I know early in my quit when I just “knew” I was done, the concern trolling on SR got to me. I shook it off figuring I’d have to shake plenty off in sobriety, and damn that was definitely the case.

I think my biggest task in sobriety was trying to let things go, it was a new skill because before, when I failed to accept what brushed up against me I’d just drink and that fixed the feeling, I still work on letting things go.

In my post about my eyes I mention that I’m still a drama queen and it hurt my pride to realize that I wasn’t the peaceful zen person I’d imagined I’d become in sobriety! Haha what a wake up call that was! Sometimes I think we are just surviving in that first year and it’s not till later that we work on parts of our personality that we are finally able to work on.

I may never completely get rid of that part of myself but I am better able to recognize it.

Who said we had to be perfect, anyway?

Fusion

I think I may be out of my depth, here, I’m just a common-garden person who became addicted to alcohol. I only meant well, O.

Edited to add, I cross posted with StayingSassy! She’s a wise lady, O, far wiser than me. Have you read Sassy’s thread regarding her sober eyes, O? Beautiful post. Stick at it, O, whatever it takes. There’s no hierarchy in routes to sobriety as far as I’m concerned. You DO sober you O, and that’s simply perfection.

Obladi

Oh dear, Tatsy.
I thought from your previous response you might be taking offense. Please don't. I'll be back later to try to smooth things over. <3

Stayingsassy

Let’s not overlook the fact that I called you Tasty in that post and now it’s too late to correct it! My goodness I’m sorry. 😂

Cosima11

Hey all, just wanted to jump in here as I find the LOC topic really interesting. I know people on both sides of the fence will disagree, but before I ever heard of the LOC concept I remember writing somewhere I thought AA and AVRT were two sides of the same coin.. in AVRT you are securing control over your “inner beast” and in AA you’re surrendering control to your “higher power” and I thought maybe these are both forms of projection of the self. After all the beast is a part of us, just as the power and “higher self” we seek has been within us all along. But if it helps to make the distinction and separation (and indeed it does in AVRT) then by all means do that.

I think even AA doctrine claims ultimately it’s not other people (sponsors, the fellowship, etc.) that keep us sober but our own internal, individual relationship with a higher power/self. Personally, I clung on to a romantic relationship partially because he wanted for me what I couldn’t see or accept I wanted and needed for myself. Then I relied on him for support and encouragement in early sobriety and it was only through time and ups and downs in the relationship I had to come to realize it has literally nothing to do with him. Nothing at all. There are just so many mind tricks involved.. and perhaps that’s why AVRT has resonated most with me, because it’s easier to identify my own sh** that way. It’s not merely a tool to keep me treading water, it helps me address some of the deeper issues and keeps me out of the danger zones to begin with.

Anyway aside from that relationship, it’s been a very solitary journey for me IRL. Although I consider the knowledge and support I’ve received on this forum to be a critical part of my success. I think as with all recovery methods the ultimate goal is to internalize the strategies, until eventually neuroplasticity takes over and the crutch (whatever that may be) is no longer needed. I think you’re doing great O and are making good use of all the tools you have at your disposal. There’s no need to know in advance which ones will be most useful long term, that will become clear as long as you keep doing whatever is necessary to not drink right now.

Obladi

Let's cast two things aside, ok?
1. I'll refrain from mentioning that I know calling me "clever" isn't the compliment I'd like it to be.
2. And let's try to refrain from mentioning the S(uperior) word as well as positive/negative, good/bad,

As I said earlier, that assessment put me squarely in the 'external locus of control' camp. Did you complete the assessment? I'm truly interested in your results and what they mean to you. From my point of view, the questions were primarily (if not entirely) about "how the world works," not about "how O works." I think the world is not a fair place at all, that thinking we reap material and external rewards based on virtuous behavior is pretty much rubbish. On the other hand, I think that the only thing that really matters to me, deep down, is feeling like I am truly a good, decent human being who is "connected" to the world and all that's in it in a truly meaningful way.

So... hmm. What does all of that mean in light of the antabuse? Or AA? Or treatment? I'm not sure. But one thing I am sure of is that when I employed all of those "external" methods previously, they didn't "work." And I believe that they didn't work because I hadn't really internalized what I was trying to accomplish. I was trying to Do The Thing and hoping that the internal determination would follow. But really, that internal determination has to come first. So I think what all of that means to me is that identifying one's LOC (as defined by those academics who put together the theory) is an interesting intellectual exercise, but I don't think it really provides me with much help at all in the arena of Not Drinking.

Big flourish.


p.s. I deliberately refrained from reading your response when I saw we were cross-posting, Cos. I'm glad I did because I would have been distracted from my own thoughts by agreeing with you.

Stayingsassy

Lots of debate about the LOC. Interesting.

I first heard about the concept from a very old friend who is now an intuitive eating therapist and speaker. She said our eating should be completely driven by an internal locus of control, and have nothing to do with any environmental cues or outside influences about diet.

I thought it was a term used in eating disorder circles, I had no idea it was so broadly used when I brought up the term casually in a post here.

Also it seems to me that if you don’t have the internal LOC then you kinda have to Do the Thing because there’s nothing else you can possibly do except succumb to the addiction, which is a tragic option. And hope that by doing the thing, the rest will follow. Maybe it won’t, maybe it will, but all you can do is keep fighting it. Plenty of people in that boat. Some people fight it for a lifetime.

Fusion

O, I shan’t cast aside the ‘clever’ word, because I used it as I meant it. That I’m not clever enough to have meant what you read into my post. That was borne out by my misunderstanding of the locus of control reference I used, relating to Antabuse. I had no inkling that ‘locus of control’ was a personal psychology term. I used it as Sassy noted, an AVRT term (nod to Sassy who called me Tasty, which made me &#128515. Also, where I was raised in the U.K., we use clever as a compliment, not an insult.

Yes! In real life, very few people agree with me, so I’m a happy Tasty Tatsy today.

Obladi

Dear Tasty/Tatsy,

Thanks for your response. Written words can be so hard to interpret sometimes, no? It's all good, my friend.

This discussion has been very interesting and thought-provoking to me. Thank you very much for raising it.

Fusion

Thanks O, written words, ugh! If we were sat discussing ‘things’ over a coffee, with the natural back and forth, querying, responding, clarifying, facial expression and vocal tone, etc. Still, even with the written word, we somehow manage, as friends do 🤗.

Dee74

New thread time

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-part-3-a.html (Oh Well Part 3)

D