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AVRT meetings

Old 03-23-2020, 03:41 AM
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AVRT meetings

I have heard it said here many times that once you read the book, get a good handle on what the AV is and how to recognize it, a person is all set and once they make their Big Plan along these lines, they do not need any meeting nor anything else for that matter.
That has never been the case with me. I have done all that yet have struggled.
At the moment, I read my notes in the morning reminding me to be ready for IT and to recognize IT as being the AV because I tend to forget, plain and simple. I also attend meetings of SMART and AA.
I wish RR has not put a stop to their meetings, not sure what the reason was behind it or should I say the real reason behind that decision.
I was wondering if there was a way to revive those meetings at least online, because it really does help to hear and interact with others regarding how they use RR in their daily life if only to keep this thing fresh in my mind at least for a time being.
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Old 03-23-2020, 04:11 AM
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Apparently meetings were intended to teach the application of AVRT for a few months, then people were supposed to stop attending, having learnt to practice their 'internal locus of control' AV recognition and dismissal.

I understand the meetings were abandoned, because people began to believe that they were sober 'because' of meeting attendance, i.e. 'external locus of control', which was not the founder's intention.

Personally, I believe a few months meeting system is an excellent idea, to provide a detailed grounding in the technique.

That said, I've never read a better description of the Addictive Voice, than this posted on SR by Derringer, who attends AA meetings:

Originally Posted by Derringer View Post
I was listening to a YouTube video this morning and it wasn't about drinking but it talked about how moments of temptation, of any kind, come to us fully wrapped in justifications and other deceptions like everyone else is doing it, it's only one little, who will know, it's okay it won't harm you or anyone else, I won't give in next time but just this once and on and on it goes.

BUT

If we do succumb, that little voice that whispers so seductively then completely flips on us.

I can't believe you did that, why can't you just be like other people, what is wrong with you, everyone will know, you're a horrible person.

So I guess, be careful about listening to voice A if you want to avoid voice B.
Voice A and B are Addictive voice.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by shakeel
AVRT meetings

I have heard it said here many times that once you read the book, get a good handle on what the AV is and how to recognize it, a person is all set and once they make their Big Plan along these lines, they do not need any meeting nor anything else for that matter.
That has never been the case with me. I have done all that yet have struggled.
Hi Shakeel,

If you “have done all that”, then you certainly realize that YOU are not struggling at all, IT, your Beast with its Addictive Voice is struggling. If you’ve “got a good handle on what the AV is and how to handle it” then when you experience thoughts and feelings supporting drinking some more, you will immediately remember “I will never drink again and I will never change my mind” and recognize all those thoughts and feelings as NOT YOU. It is the BEAST that is struggling to get you to drink again.

It is very easy to not swallow alcohol. IT must struggle to try to get you to drink some more - by the most likely means possible. IT knows what YOU know, IT sees what YOU see, IT hears what YOU think and IT knows what YOU feel. IT knows everything about YOU, YET, YET, IT cannot move a single muscle in your body without YOU going along with IT. That is one of three huge advantages YOU have over IT.

At the moment, I read my notes in the morning reminding me to be ready for IT and to recognize IT as being the AV because I tend to forget, plain and simple.
The second huge advantage is YOU know IT has only ONE purpose, by YOUR own decision to isolate away from YOU but still inside of YOU, any (and ONLY) all thoughts and feelings supporting the future use of alcohol.

The third huge advantage YOU have over IT, is how OBVIOUS it is when YOU find yourself close to alcohol, and especially when YOUR mouth may get close to alcohol. Your eyes and nose are right there next to your mouth. Since IT has no control over YOUR muscles, every one of the very complex series of actions required for alcohol to get into your mouth and swallow it is actually YOU simply going along with IT for that next drink.

So, it is hard to understand how you “tend to forget, plain and simple” as you swallow more alcohol after you claim to “have done all that reading and getting a good handle on the AV”.

I also attend meetings of SMART and AA.
I wish RR has not put a stop to their meetings, not sure what the reason was behind it or should I say the real reason behind that decision. I was wondering if there was a way to revive those meetings at least online, because it really does help to hear and interact with others regarding how they use RR in their daily life if only to keep this thing fresh in my mind at least for a time being.
YOU were wise to choose this forum to get some AVRT feedback. I’m sorry it took so long, but I see you’ve been signed up here for almost 10 years with only about two posts per month. So, I chose this date where we are on the opposite side of the sun from when you made your OP to provide some basic AVRT information. This kind of providing AVRT information is the only sort of interaction with other people that is NOT driven and support by the BEAST of AVRT and its Addictive Voice. So, being in casablanca, it is clearly opportune of you to post here to end your addiction. May you succeed in becoming a permanent abstainer using AVRT with your Big Plan.

GT

PS: and don’t hesitate to post for more information about AVRT.


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Old 09-23-2020, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
Apparently meetings were intended to teach the application of AVRT for a few months, then people were supposed to stop attending, having learnt to practice their 'internal locus of control' AV recognition and dismissal.

I understand the meetings were abandoned, because people began to believe that they were sober 'because' of meeting attendance, i.e. 'external locus of control', which was not the founder's intention.

Personally, I believe a few months meeting system is an excellent idea, to provide a detailed grounding in the technique.

That said, I've never read a better description of the Addictive Voice, than this posted on SR by Derringer, who attends AA meetings:

Originally Posted by Derringer View Post (The switch)
I was listening to a YouTube video this morning and it wasn't about drinking but it talked about how moments of temptation, of any kind, come to us fully wrapped in justifications and other deceptions like everyone else is doing it, it's only one little, who will know, it's okay it won't harm you or anyone else, I won't give in next time but just this once and on and on it goes.

BUT

If we do succumb, that little voice that whispers so seductively then completely flips on us.

I can't believe you did that, why can't you just be like other people, what is wrong with you, everyone will know, you're a horrible person.

So I guess, be careful about listening to voice A if you want to avoid voice B.
Voice A and B are Addictive voice.
Hi Tatsy,

Voice A is the Addictive Voice of AVRT.
Voice B is not the Addictive Voice of AVRT, it is the voice of the fully human addicted person realizing the moral failing of drinking some more. Voice B is what got me to quit for good when I did. Definitely not the AV.

The AV is not dumb. It realizes the lack of wisdom of connecting drinking with moral failing and incompetence. It will work on figuring out how to be more careful next time because it can never be wrong to indulge in something that has habitually felt SOOooo Good. (Original Denial: as posted by Algorithm earlier in this subforum) Link (Original Denial)

GT

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Old 09-25-2020, 12:05 PM
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I was listening to a YouTube video this morning and it wasn't about drinking but it talked about how moments of temptation, of any kind, come to us fully wrapped in justifications and other deceptions like" VOICE A: everyone else is doing it, it's only one little, who will know, it's okay it won't harm you or anyone else, I won't give in next time but just this once and on and on it goes.

BUT


If we do succumb, that little voice that whispers so seductively then completely flips on us.

VOICE B: I can't believe you did that, why can't you just be like other people, what is wrong with you, everyone will know, you're a horrible person.

So I guess, be careful about listening to voice A if you want to avoid voice B.

GT, you've accepted that VOICE A is the AV. Yet my experience is that VOICE B is also, absolutely, the AV because it's a prelude to the suffix - "so you might as well drink because you're such a loser".
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Old 09-25-2020, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
I was listening to a YouTube video this morning and it wasn't about drinking but it talked about how moments of temptation, of any kind, come to us fully wrapped in justifications and other deceptions like" VOICE A: everyone else is doing it, it's only one little, who will know, it's okay it won't harm you or anyone else, I won't give in next time but just this once and on and on it goes.

BUT


If we do succumb, that little voice that whispers so seductively then completely flips on us.

VOICE B: I can't believe you did that, why can't you just be like other people, what is wrong with you, everyone will know, you're a horrible person.

So I guess, be careful about listening to voice A if you want to avoid voice B.

GT, you've accepted that VOICE A is the AV. Yet my experience is that VOICE B is also, absolutely, the AV because it's a prelude to the suffix - "so you might as well drink because you're such a loser".
Tatsy,

Thank you for your expansion of your borrowed quote to include an an additional third sentence which your AV thought up (which I label sentence “C” “So, you might as well drink because...”). Sentence “C” does not, cannot, change the words of sentence “B”. Sentence “B” still stands on its own as a response to sentence “A”.

Like sentence “A”, the new sentence “C” IS from the Addictive Voice. They both support the future use of alcohol.

Any reader of the the original quote can take it on its face, which is essentially if you want to avoid getting in trouble from drinking, don’t drink. Sentence “B” actually offers motivation for not repeating sentence “A” and is thus more than just a benign sentence having nothing to do with drinking; the logical conclusion of sentence “B” is to never drink again. I’ve done that, and so have millions of other permanent abstainers.

Sentence “C”, though, is a wild card for the AV. It can be added to an infinite number of benign sentences (such as “I am going to the grocery store...” or “It’s 5pm in the afternoon...”) and still make sense as a compound sentence (or “suffix”ed sentence) to an addicted person (“...so I might as well drink because...”).

To someone who is using AVRT and has ended their addiction with a Big Plan, wild-card-sentence “C” gets shut down immediately, short-circuited by the Big Plan. It’s just too obvious, gets spread too thin.

The AV likes more indirect routes to try to confuse new Big Planners such as encouraging ongoing discussion with people in recovery who are not using AVRT and talk about the AV in a slipshod fashion. A lot of AV goes whooshing by unrecognized even within conversations about the AV.

AVRT is actually pretty simple, “Does this thought or feeling support the future use of alcohol/drugs?”

AVRT Matrix (Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion — Part 3)

GT
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Old 09-26-2020, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
Voice B is not the Addictive Voice of AVRT, it is the voice of the fully human addicted person realizing the moral failing of drinking some more. Voice B is what got me to quit for good when I did. Definitely not the AV. GT
GT, I can state with absolute sincerity, based upon my lengthy experience of using AVRT, that my Beast uses Sentence B as AV - which I immediately notice as AV and shut-down - before it progresses to/adds the Sentence B suffix.

For clarity, I do not experience the AV Sentence C that you have compiled: because I shut-down the Sentence B - which is AV to me. I merely added the suffix to Sentence B, in order to respond to your post directed to me #4.

Shakeel opened this thread and said s/he was struggling with recognising AV. So I quoted an AV description which reflected the sneakier version of AV which I hear (Sentence B) which is a drink thought by demoralisation. Whereas you say your experience of Sentence B is not AV but "realizing the moral failing of drinking". Obviously, as a unique human, I do not have the same experience of, nor interpretation of my thoughts as AV: as you do of your thoughts. As such, I would not suggest that your interpretation is wrong.




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Old 09-26-2020, 04:38 AM
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GT, returning to Shakeel:
Originally Posted by shakeel View Post
I wish RR has not put a stop to their meetings, not sure what the reason was behind it or should I say the real reason behind that decision.
I was wondering if there was a way to revive those meetings at least online, because it really does help to hear and interact with others regarding how they use RR in their daily life if only to keep this thing fresh in my mind at least for a time being.
Do you have any suggestions that may help?
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Old 10-30-2020, 08:12 AM
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It has been a while since I checked on this thread. Great replies. Tasty, I have ideas regarding meetings, but it is up to RR to rethink this issue. I have no monopoly on this thing.
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Old 10-30-2020, 08:16 AM
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@GerandTwine
"So, it is hard to understand how you “tend to forget, plain and simple” as you swallow more alcohol after you claim to “have done all that reading and getting a good handle on the AV”.

Yes, if I am not constantly reading about AVRT, after a while if the obsessive thought of drinking comes, my brain soehow gets hijacked by the AV before I get the chance to recognize what is going on. Thus, my question regarding RR meetings.
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Old 10-30-2020, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by shakeel View Post
@GerandTwine
"So, it is hard to understand how you “tend to forget, plain and simple” as you swallow more alcohol after you claim to “have done all that reading and getting a good handle on the AV”.

Yes, if I am not constantly reading about AVRT, after a while if the obsessive thought of drinking comes, my brain soehow gets hijacked by the AV before I get the chance to recognize what is going on. Thus, my question regarding RR meetings.
Besides making direct contact with Rational Recovery, this forum is the only place I know of that you can converse with people about AVRT; and not only that, you can do it from Casablanca, so your desire to learn AVRT better has definitely got you to the right place. Just keep posting your questions, and give some detail about how alcohol actually gets into your body without AVRT ever crossing your mind.

About your brain being hijacked by the AV before you get the chance to recognize that you’ve swallowed a bunch of alcohol; check out the part on “Vertigo” in the book Freshstart sent you - “Rational Recovery, The New Cure” and let us know how it goes.
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Old 11-01-2020, 03:50 AM
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I am going to go over the vertigo part in the book again. that's a good idea.
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