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AVRT trying again

Old 09-13-2022, 07:21 PM
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AVRT trying again

I really struggle to get clear of cocaine. Been a 21 year addiction. I did manage to get clean briefly for 7 weeks in 2020 (this was before I ever heard of AVRT) and ironically what made me cave was some voice that said "Its xmas in a few weeks u can have 1 then" and then of course it became "well its only a few weeks to go u may as well just have it now" and that was that. Not had a day off it since and whenever I get half way through a day and the thought of not picking up hits me, i feel absolute terror of going home and being in my lonely flat having to deal with a comedown.

I've learned AVRT. I hear the voice. I can say "that's the AV" but where it falls apart is it's got such a grip over my fears and worries it can talk me round very easily. I mean "You can't do that without a line" "remember how good this is" "start tomorrow cuz too stresful today". Even seeing images of xmas lights this year and im getting memories of how i had a line right after those last year and it will be crap if i don't.

When I leave the house, everythings a trigger. People, places, activities I end up in mad panic cuz I get those "oh we really need a line" feelings everywhere. I realise that this is cuz I havent had a day off in years and it has complete hold over me but Im struggling to get the strength to fight my AV. Its just so so powerful and guess I need some advice on how to get the first 2 weeks under my belt. I feel if i can just get 2 weeks ill get the control back to see this through for good
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Old 09-13-2022, 08:09 PM
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In that seven week period You were the one saying “No” to IT.

There were two voices in that conversation , practicing AVRT helps to identify the parties in the conversation. You were the one who said ‘you can have one at xmas’ , You were at that time not feeding It the precious stuff , so you were giving the go ahead ,the permission. With the permission granted IT went into overdrive and convinced You to start exercising the permission. That is the experience of active addiction , the state of ambivalence, it is the experience of starting to recognize the AV , only without first identifying the mechanism that will produce the actual separation.

Making a Big Plan is the mechanism that creates the separation and brings the appropriate identification to the fore . When you say , I will never use cocaine again and I will never change my mind on that decision , any thought of future cocaine use is AV.
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Old 09-13-2022, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dwtbd View Post
In that seven week period You were the one saying “No” to IT.

There were two voices in that conversation , practicing AVRT helps to identify the parties in the conversation. You were the one who said ‘you can have one at xmas’ , You were at that time not feeding It the precious stuff , so you were giving the go ahead ,the permission. With the permission granted IT went into overdrive and convinced You to start exercising the permission. That is the experience of active addiction , the state of ambivalence, it is the experience of starting to recognize the AV , only without first identifying the mechanism that will produce the actual separation.

Making a Big Plan is the mechanism that creates the separation and brings the appropriate identification to the fore . When you say , I will never use cocaine again and I will never change my mind on that decision , any thought of future cocaine use is AV.
I mean I did my big plan etc but its like the AV is a bully saying "your life will be a living hell if u dont give me what i want" and i find me using just to shut it up. Sounds silly i guess but ive never been good at confrontation.
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Old 09-13-2022, 08:51 PM
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I’m no fan confrontation myself . So I cheated , I adopted a different mindset a new framing. I decided that that voice was no longer a threat or opponent , I decided to recognize It was there , hard not too , but Its presence ‘just was’ . The ‘just was’ presence/stance didn’t mean I was suddenly comfortable knowing I’d never again experience the deep deep pleasure of intoxication , but without Its precious stuff, It becomes weaker , killing it means starving It.
It is totally logical to expect decades of use will come with a bill due to the piper , accepting the cost to mind , body and soul and the perseverance needed to pay that cost for the effects of intoxication and then shutting that all down fullstop is going to come with some uncomfortable-ness , yeah? But the only way through , is through ,no ?
The Beast recognizes the Big Plan for the death knell to It it is and is in no way going to ‘like it’. Being/becoming comfortable living with residual desire , doesn’t come from fighting or confronting anything , it literally comes from nothing . No more precious for It , no more of Its lifeblood starves It of any illusory potency It ‘makes You feel It has’.
IT is a parasite that needs You to literally feed it , You decide to feed it or not , You can make the decision , Rootin for ya
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Old 09-13-2022, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dwtbd View Post
I’m no fan confrontation myself . So I cheated , I adopted a different mindset a new framing. I decided that that voice was no longer a threat or opponent , I decided to recognize It was there , hard not too , but Its presence ‘just was’ . The ‘just was’ presence/stance didn’t mean I was suddenly comfortable knowing I’d never again experience the deep deep pleasure of intoxication , but without Its precious stuff, It becomes weaker , killing it means starving It.
It is totally logical to expect decades of use will come with a bill due to the piper , accepting the cost to mind , body and soul and the perseverance needed to pay that cost for the effects of intoxication and then shutting that all down fullstop is going to come with some uncomfortable-ness , yeah? But the only way through , is through ,no ?
The Beast recognizes the Big Plan for the death knell to It it is and is in no way going to ‘like it’. Being/becoming comfortable living with residual desire , doesn’t come from fighting or confronting anything , it literally comes from nothing . No more precious for It , no more of Its lifeblood starves It of any illusory potency It ‘makes You feel It has’.
IT is a parasite that needs You to literally feed it , You decide to feed it or not , You can make the decision , Rootin for ya
Thank you mate this helped xx
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Old 09-13-2022, 09:47 PM
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Good to see you here dwtbd. Your AVRT knowledge helped me greatly in my pursuit of permanent abstinence.
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Old 09-13-2022, 09:50 PM
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coyote, May I suggest the “shifting” exercise on page 202?

I found it ia great way to strengthen my recognition muscles, so to speak.
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Old 09-13-2022, 10:27 PM
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Here is a post describing the shifting technique -

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ml#post6659663 (What do you tell yourself when you KNOW it's your beast talking.)

The book goes into more detail. Very useful technique.
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Old 09-14-2022, 04:58 PM
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My 5 year old broke me today. He drew a pic of me and him at school and it has a rope between us. I asked why the rope and he said "to keep us connected because i never see you" and that hit me. Thanks for the shifting exercise it is quite powerful. Ive been playing about with it in some scenarios.
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Old 09-14-2022, 07:23 PM
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Rootin for ya
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Old 09-15-2022, 07:06 PM
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I mean paying off my last bills from coke and I need to remember how awful this feels being terrified u havent enough to cover it. I know when this is paid the beast will suddenly remind me how much we could use a bit to celebrate but need to remember this is a nasty place to be.
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Old 09-15-2022, 07:38 PM
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What is your plan for future use ?
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Old 09-15-2022, 07:40 PM
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Wierd there haha felt awkward saying "I have no plan to use again"......I do not use and i will never change my mind. Amazing how awkward it was to write that
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Old 09-17-2022, 07:49 AM
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That’s one of the weird things in the category of most not being able to understand or have something explained to them unless the particular thing is actually experienced by the ‘understander’.

For me , I use that experience as proof of the efficacy of the paradigm shift of making a Big Plan in AVRT. Through the lens of AVRT , AV is not solely the urges or cravings and plans for future use , but just as succinctly any doubt in Your ability to remain abstinent.

The weirdness around repeating your BP ‘out loud’ is the AV projecting its rejection of such a stance as doubt coming from the truer self.

Just like shutting down a craving and not going into ‘eff it’ mode is accomplished by recognizing and identifying the source , the Beast, and then simply ignoring and denying the ability for IT to indulge , we can identify any doubt in our ability to remain abstinent.

”Never” is the trigger and you can literally feel the ‘squirming’ , saying Never again is itself a big switching exercise. Ignoring doubt ,after identifying the source, is the ‘way through’. And you can prove it to yourself , the trigger word makes the AV say and consequently you think , “aw man , really, c’mon , that’s crazy I’ve never not caved in the past ...., really how could I say this for real given my track record ..ect, might as well just stop pretending and cave because it’s gonna happen at some point ect ect” with all that said here’s the proof the AV is crap, at (during) any actual ‘Now’ you can abstain , right this second you can resist/ignore an urge, and you can do it right now this second later. NEVER is such a trigger because the Beast recognizes as the ‘end’ and experiences it as a totality.

But it in reality , with You in the driver’s seat , means that never isn’t an actual totality experienced , Never in real terms is all the actual experienced ‘nows’ added up , a back end totality , yeah?

You never actually do Never , you only ‘have to do ‘ Now , and now this one , and this one. Those nows are doable , yeah ?

You got this , Rootin for ya
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Old 09-17-2022, 09:17 AM
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I struggle so hard tho I mean today, done work. Im like god i cant be arsed with anything or life anymore and i realise its "probably" the beast but the prob is that my separation isnt as clear as id like because i still find myself guessing its the beast but not truly believing its not really me if u get me
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Old 09-17-2022, 10:06 AM
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Coyote, you mentioned that you are not good at confrontation,and can't confront your AV. Don't confront it. Don't do battle with it. You can't avoid it being there but you can ignore it. It wants a confrontation from you. That way it keeps you in the game (its game). Battling it does the same thing.
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Old 09-17-2022, 11:20 AM
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The technique is used to create a ‘space’ (as the kids say) to ‘see’ the alien ego of the survival drive gone haywire that the Beast of a desire for coke or booze is. The separation let’s you identify all the motivations that stem from ‘different parts’ of You.

As an example , the money you need to indulge the Beast , where does the motivation come from ? Giving your description of the relative difficulty in repaying the supplier, I assume you do not have unlimited funds . Do you think about the amount of money and how it is a loss to your household income , meaning all those in your household bear the brunt of that loss in the total pie? Is that a motivating factor for you for continued use ? The Beast doesn’t weigh the decision to spend , it just wants more , it’s your job to deal with supply. If you’ve contemplated the wasted aspect of the money and opted to purchase anyway, then yeah there is no separation , in AVRT you are ‘all’ Beast , no separation.

You’re here on SR discussing these topics , to me that means there is separation already at the very least a willingness to create it and expand it.

Please don't take my words as a personal condemnation . One of the biggest factors that helped me lock up my Beast was brutal self honesty. Along with confrontation, not one of my favorite things , at least in the past and especially when I was letting the Beast run free .
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Old 09-17-2022, 03:40 PM
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Thanks guys, all your advice really helps. I want to kick this for good i do. Life's just stressful 24/7 with an addiction
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Old 09-17-2022, 04:08 PM
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It is hard coyote - when I finally realised that the AV was separate from me and that I had to confront it, stop it dead in its tracks, my head hurt, my brain actually hurt from the effort of thinking about it. But when you know that you can close it down and stop drinking - it all makes sense.

But it did hurt to say I will never drink again - and if I am honest sometimes it still does, but those moments are fewer and last only seconds now.
I wish you success. I believe you can do it.
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Old 09-18-2022, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by dustyfox View Post
It is hard coyote - when I finally realised that the AV was separate from me and that I had to confront it, stop it dead in its tracks, my head hurt, my brain actually hurt from the effort of thinking about it. But when you know that you can close it down and stop drinking - it all makes sense.

But it did hurt to say I will never drink again - and if I am honest sometimes it still does, but those moments are fewer and last only seconds now.
I wish you success. I believe you can do it.
Thanks dusty. Believe it or not i kicked alcohol 7 years ago. The wierd thing is that it was easy. Or so it seems now. I mean i just did not want to drink anymore. Kinda the Allen Carr idea a bit. Now ive been away for it 7 years i cannot remember 1 good drinking memory which proves to me its all just bs in your head. I need to do the same with cocaine.
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