I am gonna catch hell for this

Old 07-18-2015, 05:33 PM
  # 81 (permalink)  
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I'm sorry my post was no good to you.
I believe you know what I meant - and I don't believe you think you're not alcoholic AF.

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Old 07-18-2015, 05:39 PM
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Eventually it may come down to the, drink some whine and drink the shot. Drink some whine and drink the shot. Just more of the same.

Wishing you the very best out of this Arty.
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Old 07-18-2015, 05:47 PM
  # 83 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ArtFriend View Post

huh? I am sorry I am not following you here Verte
Life inherently provides enough Hell. Voluntary inducement is perplexing. In all gentleness, what is the original point in starting this thread? I only ask because you wrote to EG that you would explain anything unclear. As I was chopping carrots, I was thinking about it. Usually I would not engage.

Is it possible to be a 'vodka alcoholic' and normal wine drinker? You know the answer to this so I thought maybe you were bored, or something else.
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Old 07-18-2015, 06:07 PM
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I guess I'm wondering what is so difficult about not drinking alcohol? You obviously wanted to drink, so since you couldn't get your usual vodka, you settled for wine. You're not used to wine, so it's not unusual that you don't chug it down like you did vodka. Of course, if you continue to buy wine, you will eventually get used to it and will no longer stop at one glass.

While it's true none of us can definitely confirm that you are an alcoholic, don't forget that you are posting on a forum full of alcoholics and we have all been where you are now. We have all tried different things to convince ourselves that we aren't alcoholic, but in the end, it comes down to acceptance. When we stop fighting the idea (and deep down knowledge) that we just can't drink alcohol responsibly, life gets a lot easier

So, again, I ask...what is so difficult about not drinking alcohol?
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Old 07-18-2015, 07:03 PM
  # 85 (permalink)  
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AF, if you're not an alcoholic, that's great, and I hope you have a happy life.

If you are an alcoholic (and I think anyone who writes/thinks about alcohol as much as you do is an alcoholic) we're here to offer support.
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Old 07-18-2015, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by EndGameNYC View Post

And there it is.

I knew if I said that I would get push back. I will have to judge for myself right? After all...I am the only one who really knows who I am, despite what people may think.

i haven't read past this comment of yours.
this isn't about "pushback".
this entire thread so far is about folk telling you what we see. from the outside of "you" but with eyes of alcoholic experience.
this is how it looks from here: you post saying you have been drinking a week. except not really "drinking" in the sense of how you used to drink. so therefore, you seem to surmise, it doesn't count the same way. these thoughts lead you to question whether you're actually an alcoholic.
when people point out that you went back to drinking and are using your oh-but-i-drank-so-much-less-than-i usually-would as false reasoning for maybe not being an alcoholic, you switch to talking of pushback and how no-one here can know, only you.

it IS really crucial that YOU know! no doubt about that.
and you seem not to.
no matter your frequent and repeated returns to drinking, the knowledge you can't stay away from the stuff doesn't seem to be lodged inside you in any real way.
i don't know you , AF, but i do read your threads. so i'm just talking about what i'm seeing. and what i'm seeing is you NOT seeing.

i wish i could show you so you can see.

i think that's what most of us are doing; trying to help you see.
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Old 07-18-2015, 07:34 PM
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Hey AF! I took a little break from SR for a little while & focused on AA. I thought I'd check in tonite.

I read your post. Sounds very familiar! I can make a bottle of wine last a month but can't make a case of beer or bottle of whiskey last 2 days.

I have NO idea why that is but I KNOW I am an alcoholic! Just wanted you to know I relate to your post & used to question whether or not I was an alcoholic too. Don't let this disease F with you. You're smart enough to know that's what is happening, right?

Praying for you! Xo
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Old 07-18-2015, 07:53 PM
  # 88 (permalink)  
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i've read the rest of the thread.

hm...i've changed my mind.
i think you do know but you don't want to.

but never mind; it doesn't seem you really want to know what others think, so yeah....why post it?

maybe more to the point: what is your view of yourself going forward? stick with wine or other booze you don't like for now and see how that goes?

these are genuine questions, ArtFriend.
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Old 07-18-2015, 07:54 PM
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Art the thing that worries me with this thread is that you have started with a premise where you expected that your choice to buy and consume wine would be reviled then, when it was, you said that the rest of us could continue the discussion but you were buying out.

I've heard this from you in other threads and it genuinely worries me.

You mention also that you have not hit a terrible "bottom" and that you've read heart-rending stories here about people that have.

Both of those statements tell me you are playing with fire.

Re the wine and vodka and whether or not you may be alcoholic with one but not the other, if you weren't an alcoholic you wouldn't even consider buying one to see if you could drink (comparatively) less of it.

I imagine you'd consume even less methylated spirits if you purchased that but are you going to experiment to find out?

As for not having hit a heart-rending bottom do you really want to see how much you can drink before you've got a dreadful tale to tell?

Five pages of replies indicates that a lot of sober alcoholics don't agree with your OP and they care enough to beg you to reevaluate what you are doing.
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Old 07-18-2015, 08:07 PM
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I agree with Marcher.

ArtFriend, it's a dangerous thing that you don't seem to want to hear the feedback that doesn't sit well with you. Nor do you consider yourself bad off enough or "bottomed out" enough to be a real alcoholic.

I can tell my story in such a way that it would seem my case wasn't that bad. But I am sure, as a recovering alcoholic, I've probably perfected my particular spin on things, you know? I think we can all tell a "good one" and present things quite palatably. But there's another angle that I can tell ... the more complete version ... that would get everyone in the room nodding their heads in understanding and agreement ... oh yes, she is a real alcoholic. Do you know what I mean?

I think we are all trying to save you future heartache.
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Old 07-18-2015, 08:36 PM
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I tried that I tried to switch to wine but after a short time that wine became delicious an I was getting wasted off it. If it was that simple just to switch to something u don't like drinking to undo the alcoholic curse an become a moderate drinker there would be very few people on this site.
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Old 07-18-2015, 08:56 PM
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this. just this.....

Originally Posted by Marcher13 View Post
As for not having hit a heart-rending bottom do you really want to see how much you can drink before you've got a dreadful tale to tell?
my bottom came when i got tired of the 'am i' or 'am i not' game and just got sober. accepting my alcoholism has brought me peace. i don't think about alcohol. kinda seems like by accepting and living sober i'm actually more 'normal' as non alcoholics don't think about alcohol either?!

sending good thoughts to you Art. how about experimenting with sobriety for an extended period of time? it might grow on ya! i stopped thinking about should i stop, slow down, quit, switch it up.... and started thinking about sobriety and recovery. i didn't give anything up - i chose something else and focused.

wishing you peace.....
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:10 PM
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I've been away for a bit too AF, but the reality is that alcohol is alcohol. And alcoholics will find a way to drink it in any form if not treated.

Were you honestly expecting someone to say that you found a solution to your drinking issues by switching to wine?
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:10 PM
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I've been away for a bit too AF, but the reality is that alcohol is alcohol. And alcoholics will find a way to drink it in any form if not treated.

Were you honestly expecting someone to say that you found a solution to your drinking issues by switching to wine?

Last edited by ScottFromWI; 07-18-2015 at 09:11 PM. Reason: Double post
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:27 PM
  # 95 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ArtFriend View Post
I found it interesting that I could sip on a bottle of wine for a whole week when a bottle of vodka is gone in a minute. I was under the impression that alcoholics will drink whatever is available, including mouth wash.
I distinctly remember trying to find the 'switching beverage of choice' loophole of alcoholism. And I also remember that it was only a few weeks after that that I almost drank myself to death.
I hope you get off that track sooner than I did.
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:31 PM
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If I were you, I just wouldn't drink at all.

I would embrace sobriety and put my faith in the idea that my life is worth a whole lot more than drinking some crappy wine.
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Old 07-18-2015, 11:03 PM
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"...we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!..."

"...Here are some of the methods we have tried: Drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking alone, never drinking in the morning, drinking only at home, never having it in the house, never drinking during business hours, drinking only at parties, switching from scotch to brandy, drinking only natural wines, agreeing to resign if ever drunk on the job, taking a trip, not taking a trip, swearing off forever (with and without a solemn oath), taking more physical exercise, reading inspirational books, going to health farms and sanitariums, accepting voluntary commitment to asylums--we could increase the list ad infinitum..." (AA BB pg. 31)

Sound familiar.........?

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Old 07-19-2015, 01:05 AM
  # 98 (permalink)  
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I hope you're well, ArtFriend. Hopefully your lawyer is helping you get your mortgage stuff sorted out. I know finances are a huge source of stress to many of us. Deep down I suppose you know that there isn't any "safe" alcohol for an alcoholic, so I won't pile on. Probably the only effective course of action will be abstinence. That has been the case with me. I failed at moderation every time and you probably will, too. Maybe you're different, I dunno. I will say though that I have succeeded at abstinence and I have found a measure of peace in it. You probably can too.

Love and good fortune to you, AF!
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Old 07-19-2015, 07:59 AM
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AF... I want to say something that occurred to me while responding on another thread on lying about sobriety. Some others expressed this to you here but I will also say that I really appreciate your ability and willingness to come here and tell us about your relationship with alcohol in such a straight and direct manner, whenever. In my book, this is definitely a character strength and not weakness. The struggles with drinking or not drinking is a different (albeit related) issue, but your honesty is commendable.

Why am I thinking about all this? I think because I had some thoughts myself recently about what would and could happen had I drank again or done anything crazy due to stress, overwhelming emotions or whatever. Would I come here and admit? Who would I tell? Even becoming aware of these thoughts scared me quite a bit because I don't recall having similar ones during the past 1.5 year, I was always so determined and committed to my "Big Plan". And recently I caught myself in these thoughts, and immediately started to wonder wth does it mean? Is this a bad sign in some way, something for me to be concerned about? What should I do about it? So I figured there is not much else to do but maybe talk about them (one reason why I also want to go to a few AA meetings again), to keep myself aware and not let my mind throw some sort of defense on it. And just realized this thread is a good context.

I was thinking, perhaps one reason why many people would not come here and admit drawback and flaws, especially many times like you do, is exactly because it'll generate the kind of reactions that are abundant on this thread. Of course not saying there is anything wrong with the reactions, not imo, in a sober community. But I am sure the phenomenon affects people's willingness to talk about struggles and bumps on the road. I don't think there is any other way around all this, but I wanted to express speaking up the way you do is better than hiding it in order to maintain a more flawless image and progression, in my view at least. The reactions (posts)... well, they are all kinds of views how each of us sees the topic from our own perspective and experience.

You know what I would do with all this information? The direct meaning of the actual feedback is one thing... but I would look at my own momentary emotional reactions closely (maybe with a bit of distance, like re-reading the thread and recalling how I reacted on the spot). What were the points to which I had the strongest internal reactions? For me, there is most often the true goldmine of information in there, assuming of course if I am able to look at it with a more objective frame of mind later.

Anyhow, I have written this post to myself just as much as to the OP since I recognized some disturbing thoughts in my mind recently that I don't want to keep simply untouched, and I usually get a lot more out of placing them into a larger context (even just seeing what sort of context I choose for them) rather than expressing them in an isolated way as my own concerns. So I personally find this thread quite useful
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Old 07-19-2015, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ArtFriend View Post
I know even before I post this that people will tell me that what I did was stupid, and I agree it is. But here goes.

My drink of choice has always been vodka. Last weekend, I bought a bottle of KJ wine. I still have some left. I physically cannot drink more than 1/2 glass of this stuff at a time.

So why did I buy the wine? Probably thought I could handle it better than vodka. If the amount that I drank indicates "handling it" then I guess I did handle it better. When I drink vodka, one shot turns into 5 or 6 quickly.

So, what does this mean? I am a vodka alcoholic but not a wine alcoholic?

OK - I am ready for the onslaught. Please don't be too mean in your comments OK? Thanks
There are many informed opinions on what is and what is not about being an alcoholic. For me, I'm a recovered alcoholic drug addict not only because of my past chronic addictive history with alcohol and drugs - but also because of my wanting to stay forever quit. *For me, I don't have the last say on my being alcoholic or not.* My history with alcohol speaks for itself. It would be plain stupid for me to claim I'm not an alcoholic. Others may have a different opinion of my experiences, and that's their business, lol.

I've now been sober (34 in July) almost 3 times as many years as I was drunk (12 years). For many contemporary definitions, I'm no longer an alcoholic because alcohol has nothing to do with my life - i.e. I'm supposedly just a non-drinker.

Importantly, I do get last say on my recovery status though, and so for me, I'm now and always a recovered alcoholic. Being a non-drinker doesn't do justice to my past chronic abuse of alcohol. When I drank, I wasn't just another drinker, and so today I'm not just a non-drinker. I don't dumb-down my past to fit in. I'm all stocked up on being popular with drinkers and non-drinkers, lol.

ArtFriend, being an alcoholic isn't really about invoking personal choice. You can choose to drink, or you can chose to not drink. You can claim to be an alcoholic, you can claim to not be. No one, in my opinion anyways, can choose to be or not be an alcoholic. When people think they can choose, they at that point are really only talking about labels and empty words on a soapbox for whatever self-gratifications. So sure, they think being an alcoholic is a choice.

Being an alcoholic is all about the person cannot handle alcohol physically, emotionally, and mentally. Alcohol friggs them up, and the more they drink the more obvious it becomes alcohol is not their friend. For me, alcohol also frigged me up spiritually too. Alcohol in me destroys me the same day, not days, or weeks later. Physically it might take weeks I suppose. Mentally and spiritually same day. Emotionally within a few days I would be right back where I quit, except I'd also be FUBAR because my tolerance for alcohol after three decades would really play havoc with me. I'd be a hot mess same day.

So, I couldn't have that same sip of wine that you had. I couldn't, but not because I'm an alcoholic, okay? I couldn't because I have a reaction to that alcohol that is best described as my being a chronic alcoholic. You being able to have that sip of wine doesn't mean your not an alcoholic - what it does mean is you can still drink wine is all without obvious consequences. Hmmm.

Is it consequences which make most of us quit drinking? Yup, I would say yes. Do these same consequences keep us from drinking again? I would say no, consequences are not enough to stay quit. To stay quit one needs to live a sober lifestyle.

If I may ArtFriend, you freely admit to not living a sober lifestyle, and so its not surprising to me you don't always see yourself as an alcoholic. I think you can choose to not drink or to drink. To be an alcoholic, in my opinion, one must quit drinking because if they don't quit, they will destroy themselves from the inside out. I claim I'm a recovered alcoholic because I live a sober lifestyle, which is entirely different than just being a non-drinker. With my alcoholism, without a sober lifestyle, I wouldn't last a week sober.

Do I think you're an alcoholic ArtFriend?
Yes, I do. I totally believe if you lived a sober lifestyle, you would absolutely have a life worth living that didn't require a glass of wine...

Hey. All my best to you (((ArtFriend.)))
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