I am gonna catch hell for this
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,666
Originally Posted by ArtFriend 
I wrote out a very long response but I don't think it will get past the mods.
What is it you want to post? Otherwise we'd have to guess m'lady.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 2,459
I am going to start this by saying that I am pissed. For anyone who is LISTENING, I did not buy wine with the intention of moderating. It was by circumstance that I bought the wine, realized that I drank less of it than vodka and THAT IS IT. This has turned into something else altogether.
I will try to address everything (not all but a lot) that has been posted starting with my OP which started this sh** storm. I will copy some of the Reponses here so you have reference:
“I've been reading your posts long enough to think "what's ArtFriend been drinking now?" when you post. There's a sameness to them.”
This was one of the first responses I got and it really angered me. This is not helpful. I responded to it directly in the thread.
"If you can truly moderate by buying something you don't like then perhaps that is better than being drunk. But then why bother?"
Why bother doing what? Coming here?
"I'm an alcoholic and I never drank mouthwash."
I did not say that ALL alcoholics drink mouth wash.
"That's an end stage drinker AF. Now the "I'm not that bads" are coming at you."
I must disagree with this statement. I am nowhere near end stage drinking. And I was simply making an OBSERVATION about the fact it took me longer to drink wine than vodka. I did not say it was a BETTER way to go!
"More or less, yes. It seems you're looking for a loophole. Doesn't matter that you didn't drink it all at once; you still drank. The fact that you spread out your drinking over more time and in smaller amounts than is typical for you is not evidence that you don't have a problem with alcohol; your experiment only provides evidence that you do."
I am in no way looking for a loophole. I didn’t know that drinking wine would be a different experience than vodka. It was NOT MY INTENTION to moderate or find a loophole.
"You seem to be tortured both with and without the alcohol. "
I was amazed by this one. How in the world do I come across as tortured with or without alcohol? (Rhetorical question). I am not TORTURED. I have problems like everyone and I am dealing with them as I can. This was inflammatory.
I SAID: I dunno... maybe I am really not an alcoholic??
EGNY SAID: And there it is.
There is what? My denial?
"Normal drinkers aren't posting on recovery websites... Just saying."
Yes, this is true. I thought when I joined that I had a drinking problem. Not so sure this is the case now.
"I am coming though to the belief that if we spend time considering/planning what drink we might or might not switch to, or how we can make it span over a longer time, etc...this very preoccupation signals (to me anyway) that I have a problem with alcohol. Full stop. It feels to me a great whopping clue...."
What is my preoccupation with drinking? I stop for a while and then I drink and then I stop. Sounds to me that is like what normies do. And how do you KNOW that I am obsessing? I go for days not even thinking about it. When joined last summer, I drank every night. Now I don’t. Progress.
"I hear classic AV rationalizations, AF. You're here on a recovery site, switching from vodka to wine, wondering if you can moderate, and thinking you might not be an alcoholic after all ... "
I have explained the wine thing. I was not experimenting. It was all I could get on a Sunday in Texas. I don’t drink beer (hate the taste). Why is everyone insisting that I was trying to moderate?
"Sounds like it's time for a new what was your bottom like thread. "
What is that supposed to mean? If I haven’t hit bottom, I haven’t hit bottom. I really don’t like the implication that I “may have hit bottom but don’t know it”.
"Art, I hope and and pray you can get it from your head to your heart that there's a lot of insanity going on with ya….. But do you honestly, sincerely know who you are? IMO, reading your threads a d replies...it really doesn't read like ya do."
Do you know me? No. You only know the fragments I post out here. To make a statement like that is just wrong and hurtful and arrogant.
"Regardless of what you decide, hope it works out the best for you!"
I had to include this one here. Thank you.
"
You're not the first one, but you've done the same thing before when you didn't like the responses you got. It would be inappropriate and potentially harmful to support anyone's plan for drinking here. It's difficult to imagine that there's not more going on here than meets the eye. As Aellyce suggested, things just don't add up."
This is another leap in logic. Did I say I was formulating a plan to drink? And I do have the prerogative to leave the thread when I don’t find it helpful (even if some responses were meant to be…others not). So what. Things don’t add up because first of all, no one is reading my OP correctly to begin with. Then everyone simply piled on. I felt under attack so I left. And DO NOT tell me what I feel or that my feelings are wrong.
"Do you feel the need to catch Hell today for some reason? You appear to be cool as a cucumber and no one has responded in a disrespectful manner. Why then create a post anticipating Hell catching? Do you need a hug? Fellowship? Sparring partners?"
I knew the post would not be well received BECAUSE I DRANK. But it turned out to be a huge pile of cr**. And I disagree that people have not responded in a disrespectful manner. Not your call.
"I've been on the receiving end of a PM from you -- got it loud and clear -- which is why, as you may have noticed, I have not responded to threads you initiate for a long time. "
You know what that was about Venecia and it was nothing to do with the theme of SR.
"Your struggle has been characterized by two points: 1) A reluctance to take alcohol off the table that has evolved into intransigence. That strikes me as atypical of the experiences commonly shared on SR; it's usually the other way around. 2) A recurring theme that whatever happens, your accountability is second to that of others -- or that it rests solely with others -- who somehow exacerbate things, either here or IRL. A post not too long ago about an IOP intake worker is an example. "
As to point 1 – yes, I have not taken alcohol off the table but not due to being intransigent. And point 2 – I have no idea where you get this idea. Please give more examples than the IOP intake person.
"No need to obsess about the whys, how much and how and no need to broadcast it to the world. Just have a drink here and there and live your life."
Maybe I will do just that. Sorry if I hit a nerve.
"I'm sorry I took the extended time to read this thread. Art, sounds like you are going to go for it so go for it. See if you can moderate with wine and see how long it takes to lead you back to full blown vodka and/or beer. I don't mean to be mean but..... Sounds like you want the thread to cease anyway. Good luck to you and I sincerely mean this."
Sorry you wasted your time responding.
Look – I am sorry that I posted that thread. It has taken on a life of its own and it isn’t good. Only I can possibly know if I am an alcoholic. No one can convince me one way or another. I have reduced my alcohol consumption, it is not affecting my life or my health, so maybe this forum has run its course for me. I have been here almost a year now. My goal initially was to quit drinking totally, but now I can see that I am able to moderate and enjoy a drink or two on occasion.
Please don’t tell me that I am in denial, deluded, etc. Those are hurtful labels.
I felt like I was NOT being understood or heard here, which is why I left. Constant invalidation of my feelings and thoughts and reality are not helpful. Verte was right, life is Hell enough, so why endure more of it on a thread like this?
I will try to address everything (not all but a lot) that has been posted starting with my OP which started this sh** storm. I will copy some of the Reponses here so you have reference:
“I've been reading your posts long enough to think "what's ArtFriend been drinking now?" when you post. There's a sameness to them.”
This was one of the first responses I got and it really angered me. This is not helpful. I responded to it directly in the thread.
"If you can truly moderate by buying something you don't like then perhaps that is better than being drunk. But then why bother?"
Why bother doing what? Coming here?
"I'm an alcoholic and I never drank mouthwash."
I did not say that ALL alcoholics drink mouth wash.
"That's an end stage drinker AF. Now the "I'm not that bads" are coming at you."
I must disagree with this statement. I am nowhere near end stage drinking. And I was simply making an OBSERVATION about the fact it took me longer to drink wine than vodka. I did not say it was a BETTER way to go!
"More or less, yes. It seems you're looking for a loophole. Doesn't matter that you didn't drink it all at once; you still drank. The fact that you spread out your drinking over more time and in smaller amounts than is typical for you is not evidence that you don't have a problem with alcohol; your experiment only provides evidence that you do."
I am in no way looking for a loophole. I didn’t know that drinking wine would be a different experience than vodka. It was NOT MY INTENTION to moderate or find a loophole.
"You seem to be tortured both with and without the alcohol. "
I was amazed by this one. How in the world do I come across as tortured with or without alcohol? (Rhetorical question). I am not TORTURED. I have problems like everyone and I am dealing with them as I can. This was inflammatory.
I SAID: I dunno... maybe I am really not an alcoholic??
EGNY SAID: And there it is.
There is what? My denial?
"Normal drinkers aren't posting on recovery websites... Just saying."
Yes, this is true. I thought when I joined that I had a drinking problem. Not so sure this is the case now.
"I am coming though to the belief that if we spend time considering/planning what drink we might or might not switch to, or how we can make it span over a longer time, etc...this very preoccupation signals (to me anyway) that I have a problem with alcohol. Full stop. It feels to me a great whopping clue...."
What is my preoccupation with drinking? I stop for a while and then I drink and then I stop. Sounds to me that is like what normies do. And how do you KNOW that I am obsessing? I go for days not even thinking about it. When joined last summer, I drank every night. Now I don’t. Progress.
"I hear classic AV rationalizations, AF. You're here on a recovery site, switching from vodka to wine, wondering if you can moderate, and thinking you might not be an alcoholic after all ... "
I have explained the wine thing. I was not experimenting. It was all I could get on a Sunday in Texas. I don’t drink beer (hate the taste). Why is everyone insisting that I was trying to moderate?
"Sounds like it's time for a new what was your bottom like thread. "
What is that supposed to mean? If I haven’t hit bottom, I haven’t hit bottom. I really don’t like the implication that I “may have hit bottom but don’t know it”.
"Art, I hope and and pray you can get it from your head to your heart that there's a lot of insanity going on with ya….. But do you honestly, sincerely know who you are? IMO, reading your threads a d replies...it really doesn't read like ya do."
Do you know me? No. You only know the fragments I post out here. To make a statement like that is just wrong and hurtful and arrogant.
"Regardless of what you decide, hope it works out the best for you!"
I had to include this one here. Thank you.
"
You're not the first one, but you've done the same thing before when you didn't like the responses you got. It would be inappropriate and potentially harmful to support anyone's plan for drinking here. It's difficult to imagine that there's not more going on here than meets the eye. As Aellyce suggested, things just don't add up."
This is another leap in logic. Did I say I was formulating a plan to drink? And I do have the prerogative to leave the thread when I don’t find it helpful (even if some responses were meant to be…others not). So what. Things don’t add up because first of all, no one is reading my OP correctly to begin with. Then everyone simply piled on. I felt under attack so I left. And DO NOT tell me what I feel or that my feelings are wrong.
"Do you feel the need to catch Hell today for some reason? You appear to be cool as a cucumber and no one has responded in a disrespectful manner. Why then create a post anticipating Hell catching? Do you need a hug? Fellowship? Sparring partners?"
I knew the post would not be well received BECAUSE I DRANK. But it turned out to be a huge pile of cr**. And I disagree that people have not responded in a disrespectful manner. Not your call.
"I've been on the receiving end of a PM from you -- got it loud and clear -- which is why, as you may have noticed, I have not responded to threads you initiate for a long time. "
You know what that was about Venecia and it was nothing to do with the theme of SR.
"Your struggle has been characterized by two points: 1) A reluctance to take alcohol off the table that has evolved into intransigence. That strikes me as atypical of the experiences commonly shared on SR; it's usually the other way around. 2) A recurring theme that whatever happens, your accountability is second to that of others -- or that it rests solely with others -- who somehow exacerbate things, either here or IRL. A post not too long ago about an IOP intake worker is an example. "
As to point 1 – yes, I have not taken alcohol off the table but not due to being intransigent. And point 2 – I have no idea where you get this idea. Please give more examples than the IOP intake person.
"No need to obsess about the whys, how much and how and no need to broadcast it to the world. Just have a drink here and there and live your life."
Maybe I will do just that. Sorry if I hit a nerve.
"I'm sorry I took the extended time to read this thread. Art, sounds like you are going to go for it so go for it. See if you can moderate with wine and see how long it takes to lead you back to full blown vodka and/or beer. I don't mean to be mean but..... Sounds like you want the thread to cease anyway. Good luck to you and I sincerely mean this."
Sorry you wasted your time responding.
Look – I am sorry that I posted that thread. It has taken on a life of its own and it isn’t good. Only I can possibly know if I am an alcoholic. No one can convince me one way or another. I have reduced my alcohol consumption, it is not affecting my life or my health, so maybe this forum has run its course for me. I have been here almost a year now. My goal initially was to quit drinking totally, but now I can see that I am able to moderate and enjoy a drink or two on occasion.
Please don’t tell me that I am in denial, deluded, etc. Those are hurtful labels.
I felt like I was NOT being understood or heard here, which is why I left. Constant invalidation of my feelings and thoughts and reality are not helpful. Verte was right, life is Hell enough, so why endure more of it on a thread like this?
You are going to catch wind by settling/arguing/advocating for moderation here madame, c'mon you know this already???
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