Saskia

AF, I don't think anyone here can or should "diagnose" another person as being an alcoholic or not. Some would say that if we need to ask the question then we likely are. If you can moderate, then more power to you. In my case, if I thought I could moderate (and yes, I've been there!), knowing what I know now, I would say that if I needed to think about it then that alone would be a red flag.

When you ask a bunch of alcoholics for advice about moderation, it's probably a bit like going to a hardware store to buy bread :-)

ArtFriend

Good point Saskia! I should have realized this before posting.

WritingFromLife

And never forget the ugly progression.....

dwtbd

Here's a thought experiment to try, not advocating for you to recreate this situation . Since you mentioned the only vodka( ?) is a problem, what does the memory of the experience of the third shot feel like? You said the first seemed to almost always lead to 5 or 6 and more, what did the third one do for your desire for more? For me that the defining thing, that itch a certain amount of alcohol would ignite. Fighting off the temptation to quell the itch , meaning drinking with little or no abandon, was doable at times. But it was always a battle and I didn't fight so hard, especially late in my drinking career. If you 'get' what I mean about the itch , the physical aspect of the craving for more, for me that is alcoholism. And for me wine, vodka, beer, whatever form the alcohols in has the potential to ignite the itch.
Binge drinking, drinking through hangovers, daily maintenance between progressively closer together binge sessions were consequences of constantly flirting with the itch. Add the anxiety, depression, mental and physical stresses of living with that seemingly never ending cycle(s) make for a less than happy life, and when removed from the picture make a way better starting point to build a happier life.
You don't Have to drink, nobody does. If you can identify an itch, you probably shouldn't. My 2 cents

Verte

Hah! Apologies, I am in my kitchen giving lessons on making pancakes and having a conversation with you in my mind.

If you seek clarification of your feelings or experience you know that everyone is here for you no matter what. Much like what Saskia wrote, the response to your post in this community is predictable. My hardware store does sell bread as well as milk though. Love my hardware store.

Sometimes a person has a purpose in whipping up a little bit of a frenzy with a simple statement. Sometimes to match, create or change a mood. Sometimes peace is too heavy or lonely and maelstrom or something in between more comfortable. Not saying this is you. But I will say that last week all I was on vacation and anytime the subject of tenure was raised, a maelstrom ensued. Not my desired atmosphere, for sure.

I really hope you are doing OK today. What is the status of looking for a supportive day program?

ArtFriend

dwtbd - I cannot say what the third drink does. Interesting. I will pay attention the next time I get to three drinks (if I do get to three drinks)

silentrun

It's weird you should mention the third drink dwtbd. That third drink used to be where my off switch would kick in and I would not want to continue. Somewhere along the line it switched from cut off point to point of no return. That is why I never got into beer and wine. ..takes to long to engage. I am sure if I got a big enough straw I could pull it off with the beer.

ArtFriend

Verte - Where do you teach? I had a good friend who was denied tenure at SMU and it nearly killed her. Poor thing.

Yeah... I am going to have to rethink things. Sorry if I "whipped up a frenzy"... and I do know everyone here means well. Not ready for the IOP thing. I had that bad experience with the intake person awhile back and never returned.

Heading to the grocery store to get some bread!

Anna

AF, I don't use labels regarding alcoholism.

It sounds like the way you are drinking is not having any negative effects on your life, Therefore, there is likely little motivation to stop drinking.

2muchpain

Personally, I give you credit for putting yourself out there and letting people on SR know where you're coming from. Not an easy thing to do. John

ArtFriend

Anna - BINGO! You said what I was thinking and didn't want to write out here. I have not had that "bottom" that everyone gets (or many do). And it has not really impacted me on any serious level, except I know that it can potentially do that. Many people here relate stories that are heartbreaking. And I can see that would be a critical impetus for change. Thank you for your comment Anna. You hit the nail on the head.

ArtFriend

Thank you John! That means a lot to me. You also have posted where you are coming from here and I applaud you for your bravery.

Soberpotamus

I hear classic AV rationalizations, AF.

You're here on a recovery site, switching from vodka to wine, wondering if you can moderate, and thinking you might not be an alcoholic after all ...

Zoom out for a moment

See what it looks like from a wider angle.

XOXO

Aellyce

The other thought I had, AF, is in line with the last sentence in Verte's post above. "What is the status of looking for a supportive day program?" You have talked about many versions of these earlier, and that you investigated/started things, but there wasn't much follow-up on them at least shared here.

Instead, a thread about drinking half a glass of wine or something like that a day. I also wondered what's the appeal to actually drink half a glass of wine for someone who clearly likes to use alcohol (even if it's a different formulation) as escape, even if only occasionally now? Are you drinking a little wine for the taste or what's the attraction? From your OP it sounds like you don't even like the wine much. Something just does not compute here for me.

Well, considering everything you are sharing... if drinking occasionally does not affect your life negatively, and you are content with how things are for you and it's not necessary to make major changes, then good for you.

silentrun

Sounds like it's time for a new what was your bottom like thread.

ArtFriend

SP -

Re-read my posts. Thanks

ArtFriend

Well, guys and gals - time to go do something out of the house. Thank you all very much!

Fly N Buy

I had to stay sober long enough for my alcohol soaked brain to really evaluate what my condition truly was. Around six months the fog cleared and I could think straight. I had no shot trying to evaluate anything with the same brain that told me it was ok to drink.

My sponsor spoke of a gent he met one time in the rooms who had a very high, squeaky voice. Kind of a nasal sound, but also sort of like the helium balloon voice just not as cartoonie.......

He talked like that because at some point when he crossed the line and did not have immediate access to alcohol he drank hairspray. He did not drink much of it and it lasted a good, long time from what I was told.

Of course from the Big Book - whether you subscribe or not, I think this is useful to some......

Here are some of the methods we have tried: Drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking alone, never drinking in the morning, drinking only at home, never having it in the house, never drinking during business hours, drinking only at parties, switching from scotch to brandy, drinking only natural wines, agreeing to resign if ever drunk on the job, taking a trip, not taking a trip, swearing off forever (with and without a solemn oath), taking more physical exercise, reading inspirational books, going to health farms and sanitariums, accepting voluntary commitment to asylums - we could increase the list ad infinitum.

I love this part as well - so me Ha!

Once in a while he may tell you the truth. And the truth, strange to say, is usually that he has no more idea why he took that first drink than you have. Some drinkers have excuses with which they are satisfied part of the time. But in their hearts they really do not know why they do it.

tomsteve

rationalization is giving a socially acceptable reason for socially unacceptable behavior, and socially unacceptable behavior is a form of insanity.

You may want to do some searching here and read the experiences of others who have tried what you are trying.
Myself- I did that a looooong time before I got sober. Then I lost the power of choice. The mental mayhem- all the crap that was going on in my head and my heart- kept getting worse and worse.

Alcohol really was, for me,only a symptom of a much deeper problem and until I dealt with those deeper problems I had absolutley no chance at getting sober and recovering from the seemingly hopeless state of body and mind.
I had to deal with those deeper problems without a bottle in my hand.

Art, I hope and and pray you can get it from your head to your heart that there's a lot of insanity going on with ya.
And that there is a solution IF you want it AND are willing to put in footwork.

tomsteve

But do you honestly, sincerely know who you are?
IMO, reading your threads a d replies...it really doesn't read like ya do.