Class of August 2014 Part 9
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 118
Originally Posted by Dee74 
I got sober 7 and a half years ago. I really wanted to be sober. I worked hard at it and I still work hard at it - but it's not a conscious teeth clenching vigilance any more.
I don't consider there's a relapse waiting around patiently for me to slip up, or doing push ups in the car park.
I'm not who I was in 2007.
If I was to drink again it would be a wilful and deliberate choice - a choice at odds with the way I live the rest of my life now.
Relapse is theoretically possible but I don't live in fear of it.
I love my sober life and the sober me I've become
I just wanted to make that point - recovery is not, and shouldn't be, an ordeal
D
I don't consider there's a relapse waiting around patiently for me to slip up, or doing push ups in the car park.
I'm not who I was in 2007.
If I was to drink again it would be a wilful and deliberate choice - a choice at odds with the way I live the rest of my life now.
Relapse is theoretically possible but I don't live in fear of it.
I love my sober life and the sober me I've become
I just wanted to make that point - recovery is not, and shouldn't be, an ordeal
D
In fact as I/we progress down this road further, I planned to inquire further about the actual stats (assuming anybody has them) regarding the probability of relapse?
From time to time I either hear or read about some long term abstainer, suddenly falling off the wagon and having a relapse. And it freaks me out. But then I ask the question, what is the actual risk or likelihood of this happening? Logic would tell me that as time goes by, the probabilities of this happen trails off. But what are the real statistics? (sorry- I am trained as an accountant and essentially a "numbers guy" so this stuff registers with me).
Bottom line; I would take great comfort in knowing factually that based on the experience of other alcoholics; after 6 months the probability of relapse is X, and after 1 year it is Y, and after, say 2 years the probability is Z.
By the way, really liked you characterization: "(not a )conscious teeth clenching vigilance any more"... that's for me!!!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 118
[QUOTE=ScooterBoo;4946475]Congrats to Glandon, ClearEyes and Hobbs. We are moving along.
Glandon, I have thought about possible future slips, too. I think the most important thing I have learned from SR is that HUNGER plays a major role in my AV. When AV comes calling, I eat, eat, eat. So far, that has worked. I bought a large bag of Halloween treat-sized m&m's that I keep in my car in case it attacks while I am out.
Scooter, I hear you on the Hunger thing; I think you are exactly correct. I agree that when AV calls, food (especially chocolates) helps.
This is a big deal with me. As a cyclist who regularly climbs big mountains here in Colorado, I am acutely aware of my weight. But, when I became AF, I made the decision that my sobriety absolutely trumped my vanity about my weight or rocketing up mountains faster; I can loose weight real quick, and regain fitness fast when I need to.
Glandon, I have thought about possible future slips, too. I think the most important thing I have learned from SR is that HUNGER plays a major role in my AV. When AV comes calling, I eat, eat, eat. So far, that has worked. I bought a large bag of Halloween treat-sized m&m's that I keep in my car in case it attacks while I am out.
Scooter, I hear you on the Hunger thing; I think you are exactly correct. I agree that when AV calls, food (especially chocolates) helps.
This is a big deal with me. As a cyclist who regularly climbs big mountains here in Colorado, I am acutely aware of my weight. But, when I became AF, I made the decision that my sobriety absolutely trumped my vanity about my weight or rocketing up mountains faster; I can loose weight real quick, and regain fitness fast when I need to.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,481
I don't know of any reliable stats really Glandon apart from the Harvard men study.
The basic details:
Right Now - Harvard Men as Alcoholics
findings:
in depth paper
http://www.massgeneral.org/psychiatr...-addiction.pdf
Of course the study started in 1940 and does not include women.
I can tell you from my personal experience here that my recovery is not dependent on other peoples recovery.
My stat is 100% success since I came to SR
I've seen long term sober people go out...both here and in real life....but I've also known many 'hopeless drunks' who got sober and never drank again.
I'm hitching my star to Wagontrain B
D
The basic details:
Right Now - Harvard Men as Alcoholics
findings:
In the Clinic sample, 100 severe alcoholics treated at the clinic were followed for 8 years. The clinic’s methods were multi-modal: detoxification and hospital treatment followed by referral to AA. At the end of the 8 years, 34% of subjects had achieved stable abstinence, 29% had died, and 26% were still abusing alcohol,[50] and the evidence was that other clinical studies had reported similar lack of success.[51] Subjects who had a stable social environment or who frequently went to AA meetings had the highest rates of abstinence. Overall, however, treatment other than AA did not significantly improve the subjects’ outcome.[52] In fact Vaillant reports the dismal fact that fully 95% of the Clinic sample had relapsed at some time during the 8 year study period.[53][54] Vaillant noted that clinical treatment helped only in the short term, as crisis intervention and detox. There was one indicator, a financial one, of short-term success: clinical intervention had significantly reduced the cost of future health care for the alcoholics.[55]
The Natural History of Alcoholism Revisited - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Natural History of Alcoholism Revisited - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.massgeneral.org/psychiatr...-addiction.pdf
Of course the study started in 1940 and does not include women.
I can tell you from my personal experience here that my recovery is not dependent on other peoples recovery.
My stat is 100% success since I came to SR
I've seen long term sober people go out...both here and in real life....but I've also known many 'hopeless drunks' who got sober and never drank again.
I'm hitching my star to Wagontrain B
D
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 522
I worked really hard on building a stable life in sobriety, and I was successful. I stopped getting support, stopped writing about it, stopped thinking about it after a year or so and I just didn't drink anymore. Then I spent 4 years that way. In that time, I went back to school, created a new career, found new hobbies, found new friends, and I just lived my life-and I lived it well. And I would have continued to live that way. There was no more craving, so there was really nothing to fight and my focus was completely on life, not on alcohol at all. I didn't want to drink whatsoever.
Something obviously went wrong, though, because here I am. Actually a couple of somethings. I ended up drinking after being prescribed medication for PTSD that put me into a sort of mania, so I don't remember why I drank or the night I started drinking. I took it for only a few months, but during that time I quit a job that I loved and nearly broke up my family. Luckily, I was able to put everything back together again, but the drinking...
I can pin point three things that I didn't do that I think would have prevented my relapse:
1) I didn't admit to myself or anyone else that I had a problem. I actually made a promise to myself that as long as I quit drinking, I wouldn't have to examine my drinking or myself. If I had, I might have gotten support from my family, my pastor, my psychiatrist, my friends, or an awesome and beloved team like TeamAugust.
2) I didn't seek emotional sobriety. I kept using some pretty bad thinking to cope with life, and I avoided everything that felt "scary".
3) I confused abstinence with control.
If I had changed even any one of these things, I don't think even a medication fueled mania could have made me pick up a drink.
There is no reason in the world why any of us-each one of us-can't get sober and stay sober and live a full life. It's not a mystery or a secret. We are doing it right now!! And we will continue. And we will do it together. Relentless forward progress!
Something obviously went wrong, though, because here I am. Actually a couple of somethings. I ended up drinking after being prescribed medication for PTSD that put me into a sort of mania, so I don't remember why I drank or the night I started drinking. I took it for only a few months, but during that time I quit a job that I loved and nearly broke up my family. Luckily, I was able to put everything back together again, but the drinking...
I can pin point three things that I didn't do that I think would have prevented my relapse:
1) I didn't admit to myself or anyone else that I had a problem. I actually made a promise to myself that as long as I quit drinking, I wouldn't have to examine my drinking or myself. If I had, I might have gotten support from my family, my pastor, my psychiatrist, my friends, or an awesome and beloved team like TeamAugust.
2) I didn't seek emotional sobriety. I kept using some pretty bad thinking to cope with life, and I avoided everything that felt "scary".
3) I confused abstinence with control.
If I had changed even any one of these things, I don't think even a medication fueled mania could have made me pick up a drink.
There is no reason in the world why any of us-each one of us-can't get sober and stay sober and live a full life. It's not a mystery or a secret. We are doing it right now!! And we will continue. And we will do it together. Relentless forward progress!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 1,551
Originally Posted by pinklinzangel
Blimey great to be back guys, this week has been a whirlwind
Im really touched by all the mentions, big hug to you all xx
Im doing good on day 42, my work has been so busy ive been going in early, coming home late, barely time to turn around, have only worked and slept since Sunday, great to read the thread today and see all of that team august support going to those who need it, it is so good to be a part of that team!! Great bews today – i went grocery shopping and saw the tesco lady again! She clocked me right away and followd me for about 10 minutes, she thinks im cuckoo. I performed, as expected, and managed to sneak a cucumber, a pair of socks and some tennis balls in her trolley. I know i will not go to heaven, but this is a special bond we have now. If she’s convinced Im crazy, i don’t want to disappoint her!!! Proud to say i did not publicly shout at the AV once today.
apple, thanks for the PM chick x that quote is fab, Im pinching it!! Fabulous on 52 days there!!!
Rah, glad the Op went well and you’re recovering well too, lots of TLC for you!!
Scooter, Im sorry to hear things are tough at the mo. Just Be There for your brother, you cant fix him, or his things, just like he cant fix you, just be there, I wish you well and am thinking of you, bless your heart xxx be strong xxx much love xxx day 57 will still be special to you, youve earnt this scooter, grab it with both hands xxx thanks for the mention sweety!
Grateful, there are no words to really ease the huge blow you have had, but know that here, there is love for you and respect for you, please don’t succumb to this situation and prove those B*****ds right. Love and hugs to you, you dear dear friend xxx keep strong xxx
I am so proud of both of you x
London, Im still alive, and im good! I tried your tin man pie(?) – it was vile!!! Going to have a look on amazon for that book, think i would enjoy it.
Napster, well done on the industry event – free bars are always a challenge!!
Penkins, you are doing so well, so glad the physical withdrawal is calming down –
nasty stuff!!
Clear eyes, congrats on 50 days! Way to go
1step thanks for the mention, Im good hun, hope you’re well too x
BBF, proud of you with your inspiration to run the marathon, go girl!!
Glandon – 2 months!!! Its racking up fast now, proud of you!!
Chris your 60th celebration sounds awesome, have the most wonderful time, you
deserve it xxx
KNB= miss you honey, hope you’re ok xxx
Ultra good luck for your run Saturday, rooting for you!!!
Choobie – glad the dentist wasn’t too bad – not too much candy now!!!
Hobbers, 60 days is fantastic!!!! Congratulations xx
Dingo – hope youre ok......??
Cute, day 13 already! Real proud thanks for the mention, bless you x
sorry if ive forgotten anything......there was a lot to catch up on!!!
Im really touched by all the mentions, big hug to you all xx
Im doing good on day 42, my work has been so busy ive been going in early, coming home late, barely time to turn around, have only worked and slept since Sunday, great to read the thread today and see all of that team august support going to those who need it, it is so good to be a part of that team!! Great bews today – i went grocery shopping and saw the tesco lady again! She clocked me right away and followd me for about 10 minutes, she thinks im cuckoo. I performed, as expected, and managed to sneak a cucumber, a pair of socks and some tennis balls in her trolley. I know i will not go to heaven, but this is a special bond we have now. If she’s convinced Im crazy, i don’t want to disappoint her!!! Proud to say i did not publicly shout at the AV once today.
apple, thanks for the PM chick x that quote is fab, Im pinching it!! Fabulous on 52 days there!!!
Rah, glad the Op went well and you’re recovering well too, lots of TLC for you!!
Scooter, Im sorry to hear things are tough at the mo. Just Be There for your brother, you cant fix him, or his things, just like he cant fix you, just be there, I wish you well and am thinking of you, bless your heart xxx be strong xxx much love xxx day 57 will still be special to you, youve earnt this scooter, grab it with both hands xxx thanks for the mention sweety!
Grateful, there are no words to really ease the huge blow you have had, but know that here, there is love for you and respect for you, please don’t succumb to this situation and prove those B*****ds right. Love and hugs to you, you dear dear friend xxx keep strong xxx
I am so proud of both of you x
London, Im still alive, and im good! I tried your tin man pie(?) – it was vile!!! Going to have a look on amazon for that book, think i would enjoy it.
Napster, well done on the industry event – free bars are always a challenge!!
Penkins, you are doing so well, so glad the physical withdrawal is calming down –
nasty stuff!!
Clear eyes, congrats on 50 days! Way to go
1step thanks for the mention, Im good hun, hope you’re well too x
BBF, proud of you with your inspiration to run the marathon, go girl!!
Glandon – 2 months!!! Its racking up fast now, proud of you!!
Chris your 60th celebration sounds awesome, have the most wonderful time, you
deserve it xxx
KNB= miss you honey, hope you’re ok xxx
Ultra good luck for your run Saturday, rooting for you!!!
Choobie – glad the dentist wasn’t too bad – not too much candy now!!!
Hobbers, 60 days is fantastic!!!! Congratulations xx
Dingo – hope youre ok......??
Cute, day 13 already! Real proud thanks for the mention, bless you x
sorry if ive forgotten anything......there was a lot to catch up on!!!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 1,551
This time last week I was probably about eight beers deep. I'm proud to say that today has been a successful day. I did all my tasks. Homework. Cleaning. Dinner. Paperwork that I've been putting off for weeks. Bathed the kids put them to bed. Happy.
I'm headed to bed early as its the last day of clinicals in a long term care facility tomorrow. And I'll be getting up at the crack of dawn. By the way did anyone else see the lunar eclipse happen on Wednesday? I saw it on my way in at the crack of dawn. Beautiful.
I just wanted to say that I really do appreciate you all times a million! :-) can't respond to all but I read every post.
Night!!
50/7
I'm headed to bed early as its the last day of clinicals in a long term care facility tomorrow. And I'll be getting up at the crack of dawn. By the way did anyone else see the lunar eclipse happen on Wednesday? I saw it on my way in at the crack of dawn. Beautiful.
I just wanted to say that I really do appreciate you all times a million! :-) can't respond to all but I read every post.
Night!!
50/7
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: TX
Posts: 201
Thank you for sharing all that tonight, Dee and Choobie. Much appreciated.
I've finally sat down after a full day if work and wrangling kids. I'm wiped. A bit nervous as the weekend approaches, but resolved.
To bed. G'night.
I've finally sat down after a full day if work and wrangling kids. I'm wiped. A bit nervous as the weekend approaches, but resolved.
To bed. G'night.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Midwest U.S.
Posts: 1,049
Hey Team! I am still exhausted from the last two days - on guard still because being tired has been a trigger in the past. I agree with the hunger thing as Scooter said...I make it a priority for me to have fruit and water with me especially when traveling to and from work in the city.
I am officially divorced as of yesterday. Still has not completely sunk in. That is interesting that the lunar eclipse was also yesterday BBF...hmmm. The strangest things happened to me yesterday after court. As I was waiting for the train a complete stranger, an older man, came up to me and started talking to me about some incident with the train and then in friendly way started talking to me about his music career and his family. He said two things to me that jumped out...he said he was divorced and that he and his wife are good friends now but that when they were married she was dragging him down (note I had not said one word to him about my situation!)...the other thing he said to me is that God wants us to share his message of love with each other( in a non-preaching manner that reminded me of AA and SR). All afternoon I had several positive conversations with complete strangers...more than the usual small talk.
I wish I had Choobie's writing skills to convey these experiences properly...I can't fully express it...it was like people could sense a very peaceful aura from me...I was emitting positive energy into the universe. I felt lighter.
I had time before work to walk around; it was a beautiful sunny day here in the Chi. My client lived a block away from Lake Michigan so I walked on the crispy leaves to the lakefront and just took a few deep breaths. I felt a calm sweep over me as I realized I was finally free from many of the ties to the past that were keeping me down emotionally and spiritually. I feel like I have an opportunity for a new life through sobriety and now an opportunity to truly focus on this new life now that I am divorced of the past. My ex can't hurt me anymore with his judgements because I'm moving on - I don't live in the past anymore.
I had a wonderful afternoon and evening yesterday. Work went well and continues to improve with my ongoing sobriety. I had a fun night with my two dear children which helped me to realize that all that matters is our relationship - not any judgements made by lawyers, judges, courts, my ex....I decided to say "screw them" instead of "screw it to sobriety"...they can't take this away from me and I am so grateful to have a close relationship with my kids - they tell me almost everything (they are teenagers so i'm sure there are some secrets) and we have so much fun and laugh a lot during our precious time together. They give me big hugs and tell me they love me all the time. I know they are proud of my sobriety and relieved that they don't have to worry so much about me. My daughter is very active in alateen and has even spoken at large midwest conferences. She gets it. They will be with me for this coming 4-day Columbus Day weekend and we are planning to decorate for Halloween and watch a ton of scary movies, eat popcorn
, play games, bake chocolate chip cookies, and just chill together. I am blessed.
So grateful to have stayed sober through all this. All of you helped to hold me up yesterday - thank you.
I am officially divorced as of yesterday. Still has not completely sunk in. That is interesting that the lunar eclipse was also yesterday BBF...hmmm. The strangest things happened to me yesterday after court. As I was waiting for the train a complete stranger, an older man, came up to me and started talking to me about some incident with the train and then in friendly way started talking to me about his music career and his family. He said two things to me that jumped out...he said he was divorced and that he and his wife are good friends now but that when they were married she was dragging him down (note I had not said one word to him about my situation!)...the other thing he said to me is that God wants us to share his message of love with each other( in a non-preaching manner that reminded me of AA and SR). All afternoon I had several positive conversations with complete strangers...more than the usual small talk.
I wish I had Choobie's writing skills to convey these experiences properly...I can't fully express it...it was like people could sense a very peaceful aura from me...I was emitting positive energy into the universe. I felt lighter.
I had time before work to walk around; it was a beautiful sunny day here in the Chi. My client lived a block away from Lake Michigan so I walked on the crispy leaves to the lakefront and just took a few deep breaths. I felt a calm sweep over me as I realized I was finally free from many of the ties to the past that were keeping me down emotionally and spiritually. I feel like I have an opportunity for a new life through sobriety and now an opportunity to truly focus on this new life now that I am divorced of the past. My ex can't hurt me anymore with his judgements because I'm moving on - I don't live in the past anymore.
I had a wonderful afternoon and evening yesterday. Work went well and continues to improve with my ongoing sobriety. I had a fun night with my two dear children which helped me to realize that all that matters is our relationship - not any judgements made by lawyers, judges, courts, my ex....I decided to say "screw them" instead of "screw it to sobriety"...they can't take this away from me and I am so grateful to have a close relationship with my kids - they tell me almost everything (they are teenagers so i'm sure there are some secrets) and we have so much fun and laugh a lot during our precious time together. They give me big hugs and tell me they love me all the time. I know they are proud of my sobriety and relieved that they don't have to worry so much about me. My daughter is very active in alateen and has even spoken at large midwest conferences. She gets it. They will be with me for this coming 4-day Columbus Day weekend and we are planning to decorate for Halloween and watch a ton of scary movies, eat popcorn
, play games, bake chocolate chip cookies, and just chill together. I am blessed.So grateful to have stayed sober through all this. All of you helped to hold me up yesterday - thank you.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 522
Wonderful to hear, Grateful!
A new, and healing, and sober chapter in your life has officially begun! I'm so impressed with your strength and grace through this! Great job staying sober, and now you get to reap rewards from that decision Yay!
A new, and healing, and sober chapter in your life has officially begun! I'm so impressed with your strength and grace through this! Great job staying sober, and now you get to reap rewards from that decision
Yay!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Midwest U.S.
Posts: 1,049
Thanks Choobie!
I love reading your posts. Thanks especially for the last post about the three things that you identified as leading up to your last slip. It was very insightful and has given me much to think about.
I also have PTSD so many times I worry that when I'm triggered emotionally I will be unable to think rationally. That is why it helped so much to post here so many times yesterday. I was looking for rational thought and perspective because I could feel myself getting sucked into a trauma vortex when the past and its painful memories were brought up over and over again.
I am also inspired that you had such a long stretch of continuous sobriety and how wonderful your life was during that time. It gives me much needed hope. Thank you!
How is your writing going?
I love reading your posts. Thanks especially for the last post about the three things that you identified as leading up to your last slip. It was very insightful and has given me much to think about.
I also have PTSD so many times I worry that when I'm triggered emotionally I will be unable to think rationally. That is why it helped so much to post here so many times yesterday. I was looking for rational thought and perspective because I could feel myself getting sucked into a trauma vortex when the past and its painful memories were brought up over and over again.
I am also inspired that you had such a long stretch of continuous sobriety and how wonderful your life was during that time. It gives me much needed hope. Thank you!
How is your writing going?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Midwest U.S.
Posts: 1,049
Pink! - Apparently you have set off a domino reaction of outbursts of laughter on trains all around the world.
I was not only on the train when I read your post about sneaking a cucumber, a pair of socks and tennis balls into that woman's trolley....but I was in the sacred "Quiet Car" on the train where even a whisper is responded to with judgement and dirty looks. I could not help it. You are too funny. I laughed so loud. I was given death stares and "shushed" but it was so worth it. You have inspired me to try this some day.
Thank you for bringing laughter to my day. Thank you also for what you said to me in your post. I stayed sober. My revenge is living well and enjoying my new life.
I was not only on the train when I read your post about sneaking a cucumber, a pair of socks and tennis balls into that woman's trolley....but I was in the sacred "Quiet Car" on the train where even a whisper is responded to with judgement and dirty looks. I could not help it. You are too funny. I laughed so loud. I was given death stares and "shushed" but it was so worth it. You have inspired me to try this some day.
Thank you for bringing laughter to my day. Thank you also for what you said to me in your post. I stayed sober. My revenge is living well and enjoying my new life.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: peterborough uk
Posts: 1,171
Bbf, choobie, grateful...
Totally the same lady who heard me shout at the Av!!
It's still Making me smile now poor woman! Glad it tickled you all!!! I think to avoid crossed wires, we will now refer to this lady as mavis, I will keep you updated!!!
Choobie and grateful you are both doing so well! Beaming with pride and love for you guys xxx
Totally the same lady who heard me shout at the Av!!
It's still Making me smile now poor woman! Glad it tickled you all!!! I think to avoid crossed wires, we will now refer to this lady as mavis, I will keep you updated!!!
Choobie and grateful you are both doing so well! Beaming with pride and love for you guys xxx
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: peterborough uk
Posts: 1,171
It's Friday!!!! I feel.like Friday should be renamed national AV day in this house!!! Hope you all have a great day, thinking of you all :-) time to slither out of bed and put the kettle on, I have fill day of studying at home ahead. Serious caffeine intake essential. First day home alone since quitting so this will delight the AV. Might need you guys today!!! Xxx much love xxx
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