Florence

Abelle, some of your questions can be answered by reading the stickies at the top of the forum (which can be seen on a computer but not the mobile app) and by reading some of the classic books on alcoholism and codependency, like all things by Melody Beattie, the book "Under the Influence," and more. If you're really interested in this and concerned about your contact with him, this is a great starting point.

Most of us find out eventually that the problem is really about us, and our insistence on starting and maintaining relationships with toxic people. What you're describing is an insistence on maintaining, protecting and enabling a relationship with a toxic person. You are showing all of the classic traits of codependency. Your kids aren't affected by his toxicity or your complicity in keeping it in their environment. They only get one childhood -- I hope you don't spend it chasing after someone who treats all of you so poorly.

Abelle

I am totally lost, although feeling calmer and better for the last 3 days (since I started to get advice here). But I've started to look a bit differently at things my BF says and does, and at the moment these are only text messages that speak 'c..p' to me. I've detached somewhat and trying to keep clear mind. I found AlAnon meetings locally, I can go to. But what for? If only to figure out why I want to stick around a RA, well, this is the first one in my life. To help myself to understand my BF better and cope better with him? Well, most messages on here suggest it's a road to self destruction. I could go to meeting, read books etc. but he is what he is. You all are right in here. He made me feel so loved and hopeful, and and, but it cannot be an excuse of clothing eyes to everything else. He does not have to spend time with my kids to confuse them. He can just upset me and they are there to watch Mommy crying.

He crossed my boundaries already. I wanted to break up with him and I did. But him looking like he is trying hard now made me think, maybe I should try harder too. Would going to AlAnon meetings mean trying harder to do the right thing?

I am failing to think of all this things as one picture, I've done lots of that kind of thinking in the last 3 days trying to understand all the messages here, which i am so grateful for. Still, this is exhausting, to simply look at the big picture.

So today I looked at detail of what is actually happening today only. To see where i am at. And yes, you are right. I am all over the place. Still, somehow able to see what I didn't see before. Yesterday he was texting all day, including voice messages of him singing out loud in happiness. Today there weren't a text till I texted myself around 4. No messages suited me fine, I need space at the moment. So I thought, I have nothing to lose and asked whether he was on something and that it would be better he told me now, because I'd find out anyway. He called me 'loony' and said 'just remember though, I never wake up to a text or get a phone call or a visit without first sending. I live in isolation. It's a two way street you know? And just because I've had a busy day is no way to jump to the conclusion'. I asked "Never?" because what is all that about, I don't know. He had many messages from me from my own will of course! Yes, he gets up at 5 but often misses my previous nights' texts and gets them in the morning, he mentioned. Plus it's not like he sends out for me to visit! It's just so strange. Most of the time now I drive my car to him and back. Once he insisted on buying me a train ticket but that was ages ago. I don't call that often, that's true but I did at least a few times in the past. But he replied "NO!!! NEVER!!!" And what is this thing about 'isolation'? Am I suppose to feel sorry for him? Or is he isolated because of me? Anyway, later he texted "Anyway I am tired, you really annoyed me today. Let's sleep on it"

So what I don't understand is why without me complaining about him not texting, as an answer to my question whether he is 'using', the reply is that he NEVER gets anything and it's a two way street?

It's hard to stay hopeful and not to think that the only way forward is to end this relationship, when even little things now seem odd to me. And I can't even be sure now whether they are odd for real or I am just a mess.

He thinks we patched the things up last time we talked, all 'sealed' by wonderful lovemaking. But things come to mind now, which he was saying at the same time as TRYING TO MAKE IT BETTER supposedly. Like, all relationships have issues, kids or other, no matter. Which I remember replying to that my kids are "not an issue" or if they are, they are an issue for him only.. Or that if he didn't spend this NY eve with me, which went not so good in the end, it would be 'another girl'. Meaning, he explained, that he would have had a girlfriend this time a year anyway most definitely. Then adding, but if things weren't to work out between us, nevertheless, he would not date again (!!!)

So how come with went back together? I am trying to picture and I am hating myself because I can see how silly and erratically I behaved. I then started to tell him that he shouldn't put me down with words, this and that, he got annoyed and started the car to drop me off at home. I said, I'll walk and that I didn't think we should continue. Then I got home and felt so so awful that I called him and asked not to drive away, because then it's over.

So nothing is 'patched up' and there are plans outstanding tomorrow. I don't know when, how and what to say to him. To end, to continue, to go to AlAnon meetings, to just catapult myself to the moon.

I was suppose to come and stay with him tomorrow, then go for a night to his parents, to drop his dog off. And help him out with moving his house next weekend. Sweet texts were still coming through, well, not sure now what kind will be tomorrow. But nothing makes any sense anymore, including me making sense to me. But even now I am feeling better than just 3 days ago. It helps to understand that he is no friend, whether he means that or not.

A few days will sort me out. Sorry for all this drama

Abelle

I'm reading up as much as I can. I was before writing on here, too.

patientlywaitin

I think the important thing is to try to stop looking to him for the answer. You can ask if you feel it necessary but he can lie, dodge it or turn it back on you some how because it's easier if your confused about your end of things rather than him being clear on his.

I know how difficult it can be to not go directly to the source with problems, questions or concerns. When it's the source that causes the problem it only makes it more difficult to get a straight answer.

You seem overwhelmed. It's ok, that is NORMAL. Maybe you could allow yourself a few days away from the chaos? A chance to put things in perspective for yourself. Turn the phone off, snuggle up with your babies and try to relax. When you have time alone, take advantage of it. He'll be ok if you don't help him take his dog for a ride. He managed to exist before he met you so don't feel compelled to neglect yourself on his behalf. It doesn't hurt him to tell you he's annoyed he'll talk to you later...

AnvilheadII

I will never understand people who conduct important issues via TEXT. in my less than humble opinion, texting should be banned as a form of communication between partners.

i'm lucky...I guess you could call it luck...hank doesn't text, doesn't want to, won't do it. we have our morning time before he goes to work at 6am....and then there is rarely ANY communication until we get home after work. if he gets home first he will call to see where I am so he knows if he needs to get the dogs in. or today, could I pick up a half gallon of milk.....if we have anything to discuss or SAY to each other, we SAY it to each other. we don't need constant communication thru out the day.

If you can't SAY it to your partner, what does that SAY? somehow we've lost the ability to talk to each other, face to face, mano y mano. if we cannot speak to our partner, what do we have?

sorry, personal rant here.

FireSprite

I was going to suggest the same as Patientlywaiting did.... I think giving yourself a few days off from all of this is a great idea right now. Just decide to step away from it and have some fun with the kids this weekend. I think it will do wonders for you to "quick! Don't do something, just stand there!" for a few days. ((((hugs)))) This is all so overwhelming.

Abelle

That's exactly what I'll be doing this weekend, except that kiddies are with their Dad as per usual arrangement.

The thing is, as ridiculous as it will sound, I think he broke up with me this morning anyway, saying that he's been trying and trying and trying and still can't get the most simplest thing, just a nice time together with me. The reason I say 'I think' is because he still went out of the way to explain his recent inconsiderate things he said (I did not ask him to do that) and put usual kisses/hearts at the end of his message. I think this is in response to me changing plans for this weekend (I said I will come and see him, we talk but then I will go back home for the weekend) together with asking him yesterday whether he was 'using'.

I've decided to try counselling to figure out the cause of my 'luck' with men. This may be the first A but what I had before was heap of issues again and again. I think, it's written across my face that I'll accept and help.

Hopeworks

Abelle, attraction to certain types of men can be a hard wiring issue that can be in need of attention... in my case back in my youth and until recently my picker was very broken.

I could sweep into a room full of men and lock eyes with that guy across the room... you know the hot looking, confident, suave, sexy guy and electricity would just fly. In most cases my picker would pick untrustworthy, selfish men who were problem drinkers or worse.

I no longer am attracted to those kind of guys and alarm bells go off when I meet men like that now and when I get their history am usually right. My old ways were from my history of a toxic family or origin and it took my working on my own issues and rewiring the way I view the world and men... I got a new pair of glasses.

I was a severe case... my therapist said I bordered on having a "messiah complex" I was such a fixer... I wanted to fix my man and the rest of the world too!

Finding balance in our lives and giving time and attention to reflect on who we are, what we believe to be true about the world and our place in it, what kind of relationships we want and with who... well, that's a pretty important jump off spot before we go "shopping" for the "one".

I don't even want a guy full time in my life...I love being single. But men are fascinating creatures and fun to look at and I have a lot of men friends that I keep at arms length in friendship mode. But most women do want a full time guy in the house and they want to meet and fall in love with the "right" guy...

and if that is you then I would strongly suggest you find a therapist and really talk about this last relationship, previous relationships and your family of origin...you will be blown away what you learn about yourself and what you should look for in a truly healthy relationship.

Active and recovered alcoholics are not the best choices and quite frankly I don't consider them relationship material for me ... just too risky, too much work and my codieness and controlling issues would rise to the surface and I would have to battle that all the time.

Oh... and going to alanon would be a great thing too even if you didn't keep going...it is all a journey of discovery. Take what you want and leave the rest...

And your A? He will probably be back. It's usually hard to shake an alcoholic....

patientlywaitin

He may have broke up with you? Well there's a guilt free exit!

Let's make a quick comparison.

You spent a few days reaching out for help, trying to get a better understanding of why the last 8mo with him have been difficult to say the least.

He cuts you off after you ask him a VALID question.

I say you take advantage of this little gift and let the front door hit him where the good lord split him, but that's easy for me to say...

honeypig

Hi, Abelle--I just read my way thru this thread and you've gotten a lot of wisdom and experience sent your way already. I only have a few things to add that you might find useful:

1) When I was about 8, my mother divorced my father and married a man (not an A) who was abusive mentally and emotionally to all of us. My mother is an ACOA who never sought any help for herself and I suspect that's why she chose this man and allowed him to abuse her and us for all those years. I'm 53 and only in the past several years have I really begun to realize the extent of the damage that was done, to me as well as to my siblings. As others have pointed out repeatedly, your BF is abusive. Please don't subject your kids to this.

2) Take a look at this thread and substitute the word "behaviors" for "bottles": http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...n-bottles.html The thread speaks to the need to amass incontrovertible evidence, to prove oneself absolutely and without a smidge of doubt to be doing the right thing. I seem to see that in your thread and wonder if the ideas in this other thread might ring true to you.

3) I saw this as someone's signature line a while ago and thought I should probably have this tattooed on my forehead (backwards, so I can read it in the mirror!). This might apply to your situation also. Here it is: You may not have a problem at all, only a solution that you don't like.

Wishing you strength and clarity, Abelle.

jacrazz

^^^This is my life....Thanks Hope!

Florence

Brilliant. That sums up so much so well.

Abelle

Already back, wanting to 'work things out'. 2 hours on the phone. Lots of positive stuff said, solutions offered, what seemed like a heartfelt apology.

Well, you all know me better than I am. But 2 things I've done. We agreed not to involve children, which means he won't be coming to mine to stay unless they are with their Dad. And 2, I've asked him how he would feel about me going to AlAnon meetings, which I am going to do anyway, as well as proceed with therapy as I wrote above.

He thinks things will be great between us again, no more arguing or drama.

Please don't be angry with me. My happiness is not to be abused. I come from full and loving family and yes, I went for 'the hot one in the room' with obvious issues, which clicked with my issues but I do care for happiness of my children and my own well-being. It's hard for me to break the connection, despite all that happened. But I think it will wear out anyway if he doesn't rethink everything. Which he probably won't.

Abelle

I didn't run after and wished him well. But I think I've just let someone to talk me back into everything. I don't understand why it's so hardto break away. I want to believe it's love but you'd probably say 'codependency'. Could this codependency be stronger than love? I've left in every prior relationship of mine, after realising that it was doomed and nothing could be done. Every time I've made a decision and never looked back. We broke 3 times with my current BF in the last 2 weeks, twice - I with him, once - he with me. How are we talking it over? My head understands this is crazy and unhealthy. But it's a wake up call to my own issues to be addressed.

Abelle

Thank you, honeypig. Your comments are very helpful, all of them are. I don't want to subject my kids to abuse of course. We are not living together and if we continue seeing each other, this will not involve children.

amy55

Abelle, You know what you are going to do, you don't need our permission. It's your life. It might even be a good thing. You have shown that you are tenacious. You have continued to be here for 3 days, even though you were not hearing what you wanted. You said you would be going to a therapist and al-anon. I believe you.

I think that what has happened in the past must look like a fog to you. You didn't know what was going on. Now you are opening up your eyes. You are looking, you are listening, and you are asking questions. I think you need to see things for yourself. I do have a feeling that you will also continue posting.

This may not be the best answer, or the best reply, or the most popular, only know that it is your decision, and your life, and that we will be here for you, and we wish only the best for you and your children.

FireSprite

IMO, Yes. Sometimes codependency even masquerades as love; especially after many, many years of the same cycle.

Oh Abelle, this is the "Stuff" that makes this all so hard - if it were always a big, grand, obvious event that we could point at & say "There - that's why!" it'd be so much easier for all of us.

I had NO doubt he would be calling back today - he's testing your boundaries to see how soft & permeable they are.

FireSprite

OMG, I can't thank you enough for this today. It totally applies to a situation I'm dealing with (non A related). When I read this & thought about it in terms of my issue it felt like a ton of bricks lifting off of me.... what relief!

amy55

I sooo agree with this. By the time I left, I thought I was doing what I was doing because I loved him and wanted to stay with him. I wasn't. I was trying to fix him to prove my own "rightness" and for validation.

Abelle

I lasted 2 hours on the phone Must be very soft boundaries.

Would someone do such thing (testing boundaries) consciously?