Am I missing something here?
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Originally Posted by FireSprite 
I see a lot of red flags in your posts that point to your own codependency being an issue here as well. I have to ask - why would you WANT to develop a relationship with someone that doesn't respect or love your children??
Isn't one of the basic tenets of the program that you DO ATTEND meetings? If so, he's not at all "following the program fully". Does he have a sponsor that he communicates with regularly?
Isn't one of the basic tenets of the program that you DO ATTEND meetings? If so, he's not at all "following the program fully". Does he have a sponsor that he communicates with regularly?
Firstly, how can he love my children, if he hardly spent any time with them? Do you love my children? Every time he saw them, he treated them with respect and made the time with him fun for them. He went out of the way to fix their bedrooms - something their own father failed to do. Prior this BF I was in a relationship with not a mean guy, who never the less had commitment issues. It took 4 years for the guy to develop strong bond with my kids. Can I expect same effect from someone after 3-4 meetings?? From a guy, who never even dated anyone with kids? Would I instantly love his kids if he had any? I've got no idea but my female friend, a kindest person you could meet, a mother herself, is struggling with her husband's other son.
My BF acts as a friend to my kids at the moment and they are over the moon with him. He always makes an effort to be fun for them, and I mean. He spends money on them, anywhere he invited us so far, he always paid. Nevertheless, his words of not being equipt with enough patience to take on so many kids did hurt.
He attended the meeting for as long as he felt they were helping. At some point he felt they started to hold back his personal progress. He felt, they served their purpose. Apart from the meetings, he's been to rehubs. He believes, everyone should find their own way. His friend P. does go to meetings all the time and has a sponsor, yet relapces all the time. As all the people he stayed in touch with from the rehub days. All relapced. P.'s sponsor is apparently 19 y. into recovery and yet, still single. I really can't judge but it seems, my BF is doing ever so well. In 3 years he built a successful career right to the top in his industry. Very fit, healthy, doing some studies, spends time with family, got a GF (me at the moment). Hmmm, I don't know.
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Red flags aren't party favors. You know the women in the horror movies that see something weird in the house and keep going in deeper to investigate what it is she's seeing? Turn back! Beware! Danger! Here be evil things. You don't need to know what exactly his deal is to know that it's unhealthy and that guys who insult you and your family like this are not relationship material. It doesn't matter what he's going through. Unacceptable behavior is unacceptable.
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Plenty of red flags, here -- I don't need to "pile on" -- I think you've got the idea. However, something to keep in mind that his brain and "normal thinking" are most likely very damaged from the drinking and he may never be able to have a "normal" relationship. I've learned this from my A sister who was recently diagnosed with cerebral atrophy. She has acted very bizarrily in social situations over the past years and is unable to retain relationships with people. Her medical team has said the alcohol is most likely the culprit and it's unlikely she will regain it back 100%. Sounds like quite a project if you proceed in a relatioship but you cannot "fix" someone. I would look out for #1 if I were you.
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Originally Posted by Florence
I guess, thinking about this a little further, the big issue here is that he's just not who he said he was. He presented a higher self to you that turns out not to meet his own standards. Or yours!
So one of your boundaries is cussing. You have the option of being with someone who cusses and you can argue with him about it all the time and feel unhappiness and friction in the relationship. Or you can find a partner that shares your values in this arena.
As someone who swears like a sailor/chef/truck driver, people like you and me just aren't compatible, and that's okay. Different strokes.
In this case, you've communicated some serious core values around intimacy and family and while he says he shares them with you, he's throwing up a lot of smoke screens and kicking up a lot of dirt to obscure the fact that maybe that's not all true. Confusion, denial, and manipulation are part of alcoholism -- confusing you makes it harder for you to collect all the facts and make a sound decision. I found in a relationship with my STBXAH that when his story was confusing me, he was probably lying. More often than not I was right.
This is one value system you don't share.
So one of your boundaries is cussing. You have the option of being with someone who cusses and you can argue with him about it all the time and feel unhappiness and friction in the relationship. Or you can find a partner that shares your values in this arena.
As someone who swears like a sailor/chef/truck driver, people like you and me just aren't compatible, and that's okay. Different strokes.
In this case, you've communicated some serious core values around intimacy and family and while he says he shares them with you, he's throwing up a lot of smoke screens and kicking up a lot of dirt to obscure the fact that maybe that's not all true. Confusion, denial, and manipulation are part of alcoholism -- confusing you makes it harder for you to collect all the facts and make a sound decision. I found in a relationship with my STBXAH that when his story was confusing me, he was probably lying. More often than not I was right.
This is one value system you don't share.
He does not swear, he'd be out the door flying! :-D Nevertheless, usual words can hurt no less anyway.
As silly as it sounds, I've got a feeling that he shares those values with me. The way he is with kids, when he is with us, the way he is always with his parents, the way he was brought up, or even what his marriage sounds like to me - he COMES ACROSS AS A FAMILY MAN. He is a manly guy but I've got a feeling, he gets very afraid of unknown and compromising his recovery. Maybe he is not following his program as well as he could to deal with this emotions. Am I right or wrong, that even a 'normie' would have a second and third thought about a future with a woman with 3 kids??
But I hear what you say about the confusion and smoke. Thank you for your input!
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Hugs, Abelle.
Your man sounds confused, and frankly isn't dealing well with it. His reaction, to shift the blame for his confusing feelings onto you or your kids, is him resorting to his pre-recovery mode of dealing with his problems. This is a symptom of being a dry drunk = not working a program fully. He needs help getting his head screwed on straight. Help could come from a number of places - AA with a sponsor ( including meetings!), an individual therapist well- versed in addiction, ... But the help will not come from you. This was a hard lesson for me to learn when my man started acting like this. There was nothing I could do to help him work through his confusion and get back to normal drama-free thinking. The reasons were 1) I didn't (and can't) fully understand how his addiction-driven mind works, and 2) I was his scapegoat for all of his bad feelings which basically invalidated my opinions in his mind. My point is that there is a lot more to recovery than just not drinking. It requires a lot of rewiring in the head and he can't get there on his own. It sounds like he recognizes sometimes that his thinking is still a little screwy, but he is falling short of actually doing something about it. In my opinion, he sounds like he needs more time to find himself before he is ready to be a healthy contributor to the relationship. It seems he knows the right ways to behave in a relationship, but not the right ways to feel, and it trips him up sometimes and he pushes his nasty feelings in your direction.
I would not be in a hurry to be with any man who makes me wonder why he loves me. I've been there done that already.
Peace,
Fathom
Your man sounds confused, and frankly isn't dealing well with it. His reaction, to shift the blame for his confusing feelings onto you or your kids, is him resorting to his pre-recovery mode of dealing with his problems. This is a symptom of being a dry drunk = not working a program fully. He needs help getting his head screwed on straight. Help could come from a number of places - AA with a sponsor ( including meetings!), an individual therapist well- versed in addiction, ... But the help will not come from you. This was a hard lesson for me to learn when my man started acting like this. There was nothing I could do to help him work through his confusion and get back to normal drama-free thinking. The reasons were 1) I didn't (and can't) fully understand how his addiction-driven mind works, and 2) I was his scapegoat for all of his bad feelings which basically invalidated my opinions in his mind. My point is that there is a lot more to recovery than just not drinking. It requires a lot of rewiring in the head and he can't get there on his own. It sounds like he recognizes sometimes that his thinking is still a little screwy, but he is falling short of actually doing something about it. In my opinion, he sounds like he needs more time to find himself before he is ready to be a healthy contributor to the relationship. It seems he knows the right ways to behave in a relationship, but not the right ways to feel, and it trips him up sometimes and he pushes his nasty feelings in your direction.
I would not be in a hurry to be with any man who makes me wonder why he loves me. I've been there done that already.
Peace,
Fathom
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Originally Posted by Fathom
Hugs, Abelle.
Your man sounds confused, and frankly isn't dealing well with it. His reaction, to shift the blame for his confusing feelings onto you or your kids, is him resorting to his pre-recovery mode of dealing with his problems. This is a symptom of being a dry drunk = not working a program fully. He needs help getting his head screwed on straight. Help could come from a number of places - AA with a sponsor ( including meetings!), an individual therapist well- versed in addiction, ... But the help will not come from you. This was a hard lesson for me to learn when my man started acting like this. There was nothing I could do to help him work through his confusion and get back to normal drama-free thinking. The reasons were 1) I didn't (and can't) fully understand how his addiction-driven mind works, and 2) I was his scapegoat for all of his bad feelings which basically invalidated my opinions in his mind. My point is that there is a lot more to recovery than just not drinking. It requires a lot of rewiring in the head and he can't get there on his own. It sounds like he recognizes sometimes that his thinking is still a little screwy, but he is falling short of actually doing something about it. In my opinion, he sounds like he needs more time to find himself before he is ready to be a healthy contributor to the relationship. It seems he knows the right ways to behave in a relationship, but not the right ways to feel, and it trips him up sometimes and he pushes his nasty feelings in your direction.
I would not be in a hurry to be with any man who makes me wonder why he loves me. I've been there done that already.
Peace,
Fathom
Your man sounds confused, and frankly isn't dealing well with it. His reaction, to shift the blame for his confusing feelings onto you or your kids, is him resorting to his pre-recovery mode of dealing with his problems. This is a symptom of being a dry drunk = not working a program fully. He needs help getting his head screwed on straight. Help could come from a number of places - AA with a sponsor ( including meetings!), an individual therapist well- versed in addiction, ... But the help will not come from you. This was a hard lesson for me to learn when my man started acting like this. There was nothing I could do to help him work through his confusion and get back to normal drama-free thinking. The reasons were 1) I didn't (and can't) fully understand how his addiction-driven mind works, and 2) I was his scapegoat for all of his bad feelings which basically invalidated my opinions in his mind. My point is that there is a lot more to recovery than just not drinking. It requires a lot of rewiring in the head and he can't get there on his own. It sounds like he recognizes sometimes that his thinking is still a little screwy, but he is falling short of actually doing something about it. In my opinion, he sounds like he needs more time to find himself before he is ready to be a healthy contributor to the relationship. It seems he knows the right ways to behave in a relationship, but not the right ways to feel, and it trips him up sometimes and he pushes his nasty feelings in your direction.
I would not be in a hurry to be with any man who makes me wonder why he loves me. I've been there done that already.
Peace,
Fathom
How did things develop between you and that guy, may I ask?
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Originally Posted by Abelle
FireSprite, thank you. Some questions from you I'd like to answer.
Firstly, how can he love my children, if he hardly spent any time with them? Do you love my children? Every time he saw them, he treated them with respect and made the time with him fun for them. He went out of the way to fix their bedrooms - something their own father failed to do. Prior this BF I was in a relationship with not a mean guy, who never the less had commitment issues. It took 4 years for the guy to develop strong bond with my kids. Can I expect same effect from someone after 3-4 meetings?? From a guy, who never even dated anyone with kids? Would I instantly love his kids if he had any? I've got no idea but my female friend, a kindest person you could meet, a mother herself, is struggling with her husband's other son.
My BF acts as a friend to my kids at the moment and they are over the moon with him. He always makes an effort to be fun for them, and I mean. He spends money on them, anywhere he invited us so far, he always paid. Nevertheless, his words of not being equipt with enough patience to take on so many kids did hurt.
He attended the meeting for as long as he felt they were helping. At some point he felt they started to hold back his personal progress. He felt, they served their purpose. Apart from the meetings, he's been to rehubs. He believes, everyone should find their own way. His friend P. does go to meetings all the time and has a sponsor, yet relapces all the time. As all the people he stayed in touch with from the rehub days. All relapced. P.'s sponsor is apparently 19 y. into recovery and yet, still single. I really can't judge but it seems, my BF is doing ever so well. In 3 years he built a successful career right to the top in his industry. Very fit, healthy, doing some studies, spends time with family, got a GF (me at the moment). Hmmm, I don't know.
Firstly, how can he love my children, if he hardly spent any time with them? Do you love my children? Every time he saw them, he treated them with respect and made the time with him fun for them. He went out of the way to fix their bedrooms - something their own father failed to do. Prior this BF I was in a relationship with not a mean guy, who never the less had commitment issues. It took 4 years for the guy to develop strong bond with my kids. Can I expect same effect from someone after 3-4 meetings?? From a guy, who never even dated anyone with kids? Would I instantly love his kids if he had any? I've got no idea but my female friend, a kindest person you could meet, a mother herself, is struggling with her husband's other son.
My BF acts as a friend to my kids at the moment and they are over the moon with him. He always makes an effort to be fun for them, and I mean. He spends money on them, anywhere he invited us so far, he always paid. Nevertheless, his words of not being equipt with enough patience to take on so many kids did hurt.
He attended the meeting for as long as he felt they were helping. At some point he felt they started to hold back his personal progress. He felt, they served their purpose. Apart from the meetings, he's been to rehubs. He believes, everyone should find their own way. His friend P. does go to meetings all the time and has a sponsor, yet relapces all the time. As all the people he stayed in touch with from the rehub days. All relapced. P.'s sponsor is apparently 19 y. into recovery and yet, still single. I really can't judge but it seems, my BF is doing ever so well. In 3 years he built a successful career right to the top in his industry. Very fit, healthy, doing some studies, spends time with family, got a GF (me at the moment). Hmmm, I don't know.
I will say though that Yes, I DO love your children, sight unseen. I believe all children are worthy & deserving of love. I wasn't speaking so much of his current love for them, but his desire to want to. Doing "stuff" for them is easy, having fun with them is easy; loving & respecting them is hard. If you've got no experience with addiction & alcoholism, you probably don't understand the impact that children suffer when they are trapped inside a relationship with an alcoholic. I'm just urging you to really educate yourself about this if you have no life experience with it, that's all. I mean no offense.
Many, many, many A's maintain successful careers, the image of a family-oriented person, hold up to their responsibilities in life & still qualify as functioning alcoholics or "white knucklers" struggling to hold their sobriety. That surface stuff just isn't an accurate way to measure his recovery.
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Anytime someone tells you they do not wish to be around your children you need to remove them promptly. There is no explanation good enough to "clear" that one up. Why would you entertain the thought after that?
Let me tell you how that became damaging to me as a child. My moms alcoholic bf(after divorced from my alcoholic father) came into the picture when I was around 6. He seemed ok for a bit, then I noticed a change in my mom. Things just weren't right. She was different. He come by on the weekends for years and resentments started growing between her bf and I then later between her and I. During this time he made it obvious that he did not like me, eventually he would give me $ so I would disappear. This whole time my relationship with my mom was failing, she was so wrapped up in him that she neglected me. The next step was verbal abuse, he would make comments to my mom about why she allowed me to live with her (at 13) call me an ungrateful bitch... He took care of my mom, always fixed anything she needed, lent her money when she had to borrow for anything major. Lent not gave! He was a drunk, a drug addict and abusive. I had a miserable childhood, followed by very poor decision making and now some 25yrs later a little clarity on just how ****** up it all was. My moms still with this man and he's still dragging her through the dirt. Still putting a rift between her and I by asking her to lie an withhold information concerning their relationship. Only thing new is I realised as much as I want better for her, I hate how he manipulates her BUT it isn't my choice.
IF your children knew what he said you can guarantee they would not want him around! You say they've never been hurt, DONT MAKE HIM THE FIRST!
This whole thread confused me so I can understand how lost you must feel. Life is rarely ever black and white. You may not be able to see just how wrong he is treating you while your emotionally wrapped up in him but you know it's wrong which is why you posted.
It's easy to say well after we broke up he made all these miraculous discoveries and everything's better, I don't know why I ever said those things? We aren't him, your feelings matter, no amount of twisting will make your op sound any sweeter. The things he said are not ok, they dont just go away because he said sorry.
I can't tell you what to do or how to think but I ask you to put your kids in your shoes. When you question if something is normal or acceptable, imagine it happening to them. Is it ok now?
Let me tell you how that became damaging to me as a child. My moms alcoholic bf(after divorced from my alcoholic father) came into the picture when I was around 6. He seemed ok for a bit, then I noticed a change in my mom. Things just weren't right. She was different. He come by on the weekends for years and resentments started growing between her bf and I then later between her and I. During this time he made it obvious that he did not like me, eventually he would give me $ so I would disappear. This whole time my relationship with my mom was failing, she was so wrapped up in him that she neglected me. The next step was verbal abuse, he would make comments to my mom about why she allowed me to live with her (at 13) call me an ungrateful bitch... He took care of my mom, always fixed anything she needed, lent her money when she had to borrow for anything major. Lent not gave! He was a drunk, a drug addict and abusive. I had a miserable childhood, followed by very poor decision making and now some 25yrs later a little clarity on just how ****** up it all was. My moms still with this man and he's still dragging her through the dirt. Still putting a rift between her and I by asking her to lie an withhold information concerning their relationship. Only thing new is I realised as much as I want better for her, I hate how he manipulates her BUT it isn't my choice.
IF your children knew what he said you can guarantee they would not want him around! You say they've never been hurt, DONT MAKE HIM THE FIRST!
This whole thread confused me so I can understand how lost you must feel. Life is rarely ever black and white. You may not be able to see just how wrong he is treating you while your emotionally wrapped up in him but you know it's wrong which is why you posted.
It's easy to say well after we broke up he made all these miraculous discoveries and everything's better, I don't know why I ever said those things? We aren't him, your feelings matter, no amount of twisting will make your op sound any sweeter. The things he said are not ok, they dont just go away because he said sorry.
I can't tell you what to do or how to think but I ask you to put your kids in your shoes. When you question if something is normal or acceptable, imagine it happening to them. Is it ok now?
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Originally Posted by patientlywaitin
Anytime someone tells you they do not wish to be around your children you need to remove them promptly. There is no explanation good enough to "clear" that one up. Why would you entertain the thought after that?
Let me tell you how that became damaging to me as a child. My moms alcoholic bf(after divorced from my alcoholic father) came into the picture when I was around 6. He seemed ok for a bit, then I noticed a change in my mom. Things just weren't right. She was different. He come by on the weekends for years and resentments started growing between her bf and I then later between her and I. During this time he made it obvious that he did not like me, eventually he would give me $ so I would disappear. This whole time my relationship with my mom was failing, she was so wrapped up in him that she neglected me. The next step was verbal abuse, he would make comments to my mom about why she allowed me to live with her (at 13) call me an ungrateful bitch... He took care of my mom, always fixed anything she needed, lent her money when she had to borrow for anything major. Lent not gave! He was a drunk, a drug addict and abusive. I had a miserable childhood, followed by very poor decision making and now some 25yrs later a little clarity on just how ****** up it all was. My moms still with this man and he's still dragging her through the dirt. Still putting a rift between her and I by asking her to lie an withhold information concerning their relationship. Only thing new is I realised as much as I want better for her, I hate how he manipulates her BUT it isn't my choice.
IF your children knew what he said you can guarantee they would not want him around! You say they've never been hurt, DONT MAKE HIM THE FIRST!
This whole thread confused me so I can understand how lost you must feel. Life is rarely ever black and white. You may not be able to see just how wrong he is treating you while your emotionally wrapped up in him but you know it's wrong which is why you posted.
It's easy to say well after we broke up he made all these miraculous discoveries and everything's better, I don't know why I ever said those things? We aren't him, your feelings matter, no amount of twisting will make your op sound any sweeter. The things he said are not ok, they dont just go away because he said sorry.
I can't tell you what to do or how to think but I ask you to put your kids in your shoes. When you question if something is normal or acceptable, imagine it happening to them. Is it ok now?
Let me tell you how that became damaging to me as a child. My moms alcoholic bf(after divorced from my alcoholic father) came into the picture when I was around 6. He seemed ok for a bit, then I noticed a change in my mom. Things just weren't right. She was different. He come by on the weekends for years and resentments started growing between her bf and I then later between her and I. During this time he made it obvious that he did not like me, eventually he would give me $ so I would disappear. This whole time my relationship with my mom was failing, she was so wrapped up in him that she neglected me. The next step was verbal abuse, he would make comments to my mom about why she allowed me to live with her (at 13) call me an ungrateful bitch... He took care of my mom, always fixed anything she needed, lent her money when she had to borrow for anything major. Lent not gave! He was a drunk, a drug addict and abusive. I had a miserable childhood, followed by very poor decision making and now some 25yrs later a little clarity on just how ****** up it all was. My moms still with this man and he's still dragging her through the dirt. Still putting a rift between her and I by asking her to lie an withhold information concerning their relationship. Only thing new is I realised as much as I want better for her, I hate how he manipulates her BUT it isn't my choice.
IF your children knew what he said you can guarantee they would not want him around! You say they've never been hurt, DONT MAKE HIM THE FIRST!
This whole thread confused me so I can understand how lost you must feel. Life is rarely ever black and white. You may not be able to see just how wrong he is treating you while your emotionally wrapped up in him but you know it's wrong which is why you posted.
It's easy to say well after we broke up he made all these miraculous discoveries and everything's better, I don't know why I ever said those things? We aren't him, your feelings matter, no amount of twisting will make your op sound any sweeter. The things he said are not ok, they dont just go away because he said sorry.
I can't tell you what to do or how to think but I ask you to put your kids in your shoes. When you question if something is normal or acceptable, imagine it happening to them. Is it ok now?
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
Ok, I'm not going to drag you through back & forth defending your BF. Enough other posters are sharing from their POV's here that I think all points are being made.
I will say though that Yes, I DO love your children, sight unseen. I believe all children are worthy & deserving of love. I wasn't speaking so much of his current love for them, but his desire to want to. Doing "stuff" for them is easy, having fun with them is easy; loving & respecting them is hard. If you've got no experience with addiction & alcoholism, you probably don't understand the impact that children suffer when they are trapped inside a relationship with an alcoholic. I'm just urging you to really educate yourself about this if you have no life experience with it, that's all. I mean no offense.
Many, many, many A's maintain successful careers, the image of a family-oriented person, hold up to their responsibilities in life & still qualify as functioning alcoholics or "white knucklers" struggling to hold their sobriety. That surface stuff just isn't an accurate way to measure his recovery.
I will say though that Yes, I DO love your children, sight unseen. I believe all children are worthy & deserving of love. I wasn't speaking so much of his current love for them, but his desire to want to. Doing "stuff" for them is easy, having fun with them is easy; loving & respecting them is hard. If you've got no experience with addiction & alcoholism, you probably don't understand the impact that children suffer when they are trapped inside a relationship with an alcoholic. I'm just urging you to really educate yourself about this if you have no life experience with it, that's all. I mean no offense.
Many, many, many A's maintain successful careers, the image of a family-oriented person, hold up to their responsibilities in life & still qualify as functioning alcoholics or "white knucklers" struggling to hold their sobriety. That surface stuff just isn't an accurate way to measure his recovery.
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 284
Hi Abelle,
I'm glad you are sticking around and keeping your heart and mind open to the ESH (experience, strength, and hope) we share here. Keep reading and posting. It really helped open my eyes and made me feel less confused about myself.
You can read some of my past posts if you want to see bits of my story. I will say that I am not with that man anymore. I have not seen him truly seeking recovery (as in, not even close) and we have gone our separate ways. I am sad because I love him and wish the best for him. Like all of us here, I thought he was a wonderful person and my soulmate in many ways. But, I was really just turning a blind eye to all the many MANY red flags that would have shown me how dysfunctional our relationship really was. I compromised too much of myself in my effort to satisfy his wishes for our relationship and his expectations of my behavior. Like Florence pointed out, that was a moving target. I slowly lost myself. I have been out on my own for two years now, and I am finally recognizing ME again! Life is good.
I stick around SR because I know that my head needs a bit more rewiring too, and I know I can't get there on my own. Reading and responding to stories like yours helps me to think more clearly about what my relationship boundaries might look like in the future.
Thank you for starting this interesting discussion.
Peace,
Fathom
I'm glad you are sticking around and keeping your heart and mind open to the ESH (experience, strength, and hope) we share here. Keep reading and posting. It really helped open my eyes and made me feel less confused about myself.
You can read some of my past posts if you want to see bits of my story. I will say that I am not with that man anymore. I have not seen him truly seeking recovery (as in, not even close) and we have gone our separate ways. I am sad because I love him and wish the best for him. Like all of us here, I thought he was a wonderful person and my soulmate in many ways. But, I was really just turning a blind eye to all the many MANY red flags that would have shown me how dysfunctional our relationship really was. I compromised too much of myself in my effort to satisfy his wishes for our relationship and his expectations of my behavior. Like Florence pointed out, that was a moving target. I slowly lost myself. I have been out on my own for two years now, and I am finally recognizing ME again! Life is good.
I stick around SR because I know that my head needs a bit more rewiring too, and I know I can't get there on my own. Reading and responding to stories like yours helps me to think more clearly about what my relationship boundaries might look like in the future.
Thank you for starting this interesting discussion.
Peace,
Fathom
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by lillamy
What I'm seeing in your description is a person who is holding on to some behaviors that are common in addicts, though he is not drinking.
He is controlling and manipulative.
You may not see it, but let me give you some examples from your story.
A normal man who didn't want to have sex with you, didn't want to meet your friends, and didn't want children would break up with you. He doesn't want to break up with you. He wants you to stay, but under his control. He wants you to try to jump through the hoops he sets up for you in trying to become the woman he says he wants. Except the hoops will change along the way and you will start walking on eggshells to figure out how to keep him happy.
I think that you, like I once did, have walked into a relationship with a big heart and a lot of compassion for people who have had a rougher road this far in life than you have. That makes us supremely unqualified to recognize true dysfunction in a person when we see it. Especially, I think we expect people to be predictable and consistent -- and when they're not, we tend to see the dysfunctional as an aberration rather than part of who the person actually is.
I think he did you a favor by giving you the Big Book. I also think you could benefit from Al-Anon meetings -- because you will see that a lot of the "shocking" behaviors you're seeing in your BF are pretty run of the mill with addicts.
We have quite a few "double winners" here (folks who are recovering alcoholics AND recovering codependents) and some of them will remind you that addiction is a three-pronged curse: it's physical, mental, and spiritual, and unless you deal with all three, some of the behaviors of the addict will continue to hound you.
I would venture to guess that your BF, since he has worked the program on his own without input from other AA members or a sponsor, may not have covered all the bases. That doesn't mean he's a bad person or that he will relapse tomorrow -- it just means he is not as healthy as he could be. And it's up to you to figure out if you want to take a chance on that or not.
He is controlling and manipulative.
You may not see it, but let me give you some examples from your story.
- He refuses to meet your friends for lunch, but he gets irate and demands an explanation when you decline a lunch invitation.
- He is acting like a child in relationship to your children -- in effect asking you to choose between them and him ("who do you love more, Mommy?").
- He is attempting to break down your confidence by telling you that you are simply not sexually attractive to you.
- He is attempting to control and change you by telling you that you need to change in order for him to be sexually attracted to you.
A normal man who didn't want to have sex with you, didn't want to meet your friends, and didn't want children would break up with you. He doesn't want to break up with you. He wants you to stay, but under his control. He wants you to try to jump through the hoops he sets up for you in trying to become the woman he says he wants. Except the hoops will change along the way and you will start walking on eggshells to figure out how to keep him happy.
I think that you, like I once did, have walked into a relationship with a big heart and a lot of compassion for people who have had a rougher road this far in life than you have. That makes us supremely unqualified to recognize true dysfunction in a person when we see it. Especially, I think we expect people to be predictable and consistent -- and when they're not, we tend to see the dysfunctional as an aberration rather than part of who the person actually is.
I think he did you a favor by giving you the Big Book. I also think you could benefit from Al-Anon meetings -- because you will see that a lot of the "shocking" behaviors you're seeing in your BF are pretty run of the mill with addicts.
We have quite a few "double winners" here (folks who are recovering alcoholics AND recovering codependents) and some of them will remind you that addiction is a three-pronged curse: it's physical, mental, and spiritual, and unless you deal with all three, some of the behaviors of the addict will continue to hound you.
I would venture to guess that your BF, since he has worked the program on his own without input from other AA members or a sponsor, may not have covered all the bases. That doesn't mean he's a bad person or that he will relapse tomorrow -- it just means he is not as healthy as he could be. And it's up to you to figure out if you want to take a chance on that or not.
Thanks a lot for your time and help.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
No matter how you try and defend him and his actions, no matter how you attempt to explain all his negatives.......this square peg of a person is never going to fit into the round hole you wish for.
8 months into this mess and YOU are bound and determined to hold on, what would walking away from an un-healthy relationship feel like to? Would you feel a failure? Would you be embarrassed that yet another relationship did not work out for you?
Maybe figuring that part out first will set you on a healthier path.
8 months into this mess and YOU are bound and determined to hold on, what would walking away from an un-healthy relationship feel like to? Would you feel a failure? Would you be embarrassed that yet another relationship did not work out for you?
Maybe figuring that part out first will set you on a healthier path.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 453
Welcome, Abelle.
What you decide to do about your relationship is completely up to you. This is a community that will support you regardless of your decisions, though it comes with a healthy and much needed dose of reality. I'd like to share my experience with you, and what I would recommend should you continue a relationship with an A, whether or not they are in recovery.
When I met my RAH, he was several years sober. I did not really delve into his past - his past was his past and he had made dramatic changes in himself to be living sober. I loved the man I married. Two years ago (married over eight years), he relapsed. I was completely blindsided - I had no idea what I was dealing with. RAH still got to work every day, our bills were paid, his relationships were intact, but I knew where the cracks in the facade were, and I knew how his drinking was effecting our life together and our relationship. The relapse crippled me for awhile...took several months of individual counseling to get my head on straight again and Al-Anon and SR for understanding and support. My story is mild..mundane...boring compared to others, but I still would not wish it on my worst enemy.
So, please put yourself and your children first at all times. We each are our own #1 priority. As you said, only you can make you happy...I'll add that only you can make sure your needs & wants are met. Educate yourself about alcoholism, there are resources here, online, local library, etc. Attend AlAnon...whether your A is in recovery or not, it is program that can help you keep your focus on yourself, teach you relationship tools, and provide face to face support for living with alcoholism. He may be motivated and lucky so he never relapses...but you should still understand the full scope of what you are dealing with so you can make an educated decision for yourself and your children. I wish I had known to undertake this education long before I ever needed it...and it will now be a lifelong study.
What you decide to do about your relationship is completely up to you. This is a community that will support you regardless of your decisions, though it comes with a healthy and much needed dose of reality. I'd like to share my experience with you, and what I would recommend should you continue a relationship with an A, whether or not they are in recovery.
When I met my RAH, he was several years sober. I did not really delve into his past - his past was his past and he had made dramatic changes in himself to be living sober. I loved the man I married. Two years ago (married over eight years), he relapsed. I was completely blindsided - I had no idea what I was dealing with. RAH still got to work every day, our bills were paid, his relationships were intact, but I knew where the cracks in the facade were, and I knew how his drinking was effecting our life together and our relationship. The relapse crippled me for awhile...took several months of individual counseling to get my head on straight again and Al-Anon and SR for understanding and support. My story is mild..mundane...boring compared to others, but I still would not wish it on my worst enemy.
So, please put yourself and your children first at all times. We each are our own #1 priority. As you said, only you can make you happy...I'll add that only you can make sure your needs & wants are met. Educate yourself about alcoholism, there are resources here, online, local library, etc. Attend AlAnon...whether your A is in recovery or not, it is program that can help you keep your focus on yourself, teach you relationship tools, and provide face to face support for living with alcoholism. He may be motivated and lucky so he never relapses...but you should still understand the full scope of what you are dealing with so you can make an educated decision for yourself and your children. I wish I had known to undertake this education long before I ever needed it...and it will now be a lifelong study.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by Abelle
Lyllamy, I'll offer him to go to AA meetings together. I can see dysfunction but it's true, I can't tell the true extent of it. Now, after reading all the messages, it feels that I should get scared and run away. Yet, I feel nothing. Probably not good things are happening to me without me even noticing most of the time. I wonder though what he would say if I am to offer the meetings.
Thanks a lot for your time and help.
Thanks a lot for your time and help.
I personally wouldn't attend AA together - AA is for HIM. Everything that I've learned says that it is not a healthy step in the right direction to tie yourself to his recovery in this way. Too much becomes dependent on you. If he chooses to attend AA, that would be wonderful but it's ON HIM to do so.
Al-Anon is for you. We call this staying on our own sides of the street.
Have you ever heard the ancedote about the frog in a pot of boiling water? Your story reminds me so much of that analogy. Basically the story goes that if you toss a frog into boiling water they will jump out. But - if you put the frog in the water while it is cool & heat it to boiling ever-so-slowly they will not perceive the danger in the same way & constantly adjust for the increase of temperature until they die in the boiling water.
Often we F&F are like those frogs - when the water heats up slowly (like those shocking events you were talking about) we continue to make excuses, adjust & tolerate never seeing the reality of the situation we are in.
(((HUGS))) I know this is hard.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
I tend to take the alcoholism out of the equation a lot. Why? My ex was abusive with or without it. It was his personality. In the first 8 months of my relationship with him, there were many red flags. I try not try not to think of them, but in a way it was like he was looking for buttons to push on me. Oh, when he would find the button, he would apologize for it, he was only joking, didn't know something stupid like that would offend me, you know, whatever, just to makes things better then.
In a way, I read your post as a fishing expedition for him. He now knows that whenever he wants to hurt you he can bring up your sexual attractiveness, he can bring up your kids. If you try to discuss things with him, you will be told that you can't let things drop, that he didn't mean it, or didn't mean it that way, or any other thing that he can say to make you doubt yourself.
This is, of course, if I read your post right.
If I did read your post right, then remember this is only an 8 month relationship, he is finding your sensitivities, and he continue to use them against you.
Listen to his words more, try to be more aware of how you get into discussions where he tends to tell you that you won't let things just go. Then watch how it will become your fault.
In a way, I read your post as a fishing expedition for him. He now knows that whenever he wants to hurt you he can bring up your sexual attractiveness, he can bring up your kids. If you try to discuss things with him, you will be told that you can't let things drop, that he didn't mean it, or didn't mean it that way, or any other thing that he can say to make you doubt yourself.
This is, of course, if I read your post right.
If I did read your post right, then remember this is only an 8 month relationship, he is finding your sensitivities, and he continue to use them against you.
Listen to his words more, try to be more aware of how you get into discussions where he tends to tell you that you won't let things just go. Then watch how it will become your fault.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Here and now
Posts: 325
Originally Posted by FireSprite
If you've got no experience with addiction & alcoholism, you probably don't understand the impact that children suffer when they are trapped inside a relationship with an alcoholic. I'm just urging you to really educate yourself about this if you have no life experience with it, that's all. I mean no offense.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 45
Could it be that someone in recovery, who is under pressure to stick to it, thinks that everything will be fine to start with but discovers challenges, which they fear they can't overcome? And which could compromise their sobriety? Could fear be so strong that a decent person behaves in the way I described?
What is hard to imagine at the moment is that my BF is testing me for my sensitivities and is having a relationship with me for the sake of... what exactly, anyway? Having someone to manipulate? Very confusing.
What is hard to imagine at the moment is that my BF is testing me for my sensitivities and is having a relationship with me for the sake of... what exactly, anyway? Having someone to manipulate? Very confusing.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
At this point in my life, if my primary state in my relationship was unease and confusion, and there were signs that my partner was not who he said he was, I would extract myself from the relationship. I don't need to probe the basement of a haunted house to know there are scary things there.
No reason, every reason, whatever reason. This is what alcoholics do when they don't work an active recovery. Are you happy? If not, he's just a boyfriend. An easily shed boyfriend at that.
for the sake of... what exactly, anyway?
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