Katiekate

And this



the point was made CRYSTAL CLEAR to me - at 90 days or 9 years, quitting drinking is no more an excuse for how we behave than a broken windshield wiper was a good enough excuse to get drunk!!! NO EXCUSES.

Abelle

Katiekate, I haven't come across this term before. Is there anywhere I could read about this? Thanks.

LadyinBC

Of course there isn't. I've always said that being with me is not for the faint of heart that is for sure!

Sure I have been sober since July 21/2012, however, I will never be a 100% cured or better. Everytime I get thru a day sober I consider that a success. I have good days and I have bad days and I don't have to have a bad day to want to drink.

But I could relapse at any time and don't think that I haven't come close. Are you prepared for that? There is just no guarantees that we won't. Yes we are sick, however at the end, drinking is a choice, but we can be bad for blaming others for those relapses. And we have this uncanny ability to draw people and manipulate them, even when we are sober. We didn't get this way overnight and we certainly don't get fixed overnight.

I understand you don't want to throw in the towel so to speak, but you really do deserve better than this. I just see you getting yourself into this situation and I just want to tell you to run. Just my honest opinion.

Katiekate

If you google relationship recycling you will get lots of hits.

amy55

[QUOTE=Abelle;4395240]Hi,



... Just as I was getting around my hurt feelings, my BF explained to me that what he said HAS NOTHING TO DO with me not being sexy or his recovery. All that, apparently, had to do with my kids.



But every single time he would come back to me not with something negative about my kids but with something extremely negative about how he feels towards them, the situation and the future. Eventually he said that he does not see any future together. It would take a huge effort for him to accept living with just one other person, let alone another 4. And considering that he doesn't want his own kids, why should he want someone else's? And where would he find enough patience anyway? Once again, brutal honesty is a must for recovery.

And then he said that he loves me ever so much and people can love each other, having all sorts of different kinds of arrangements. But this is the best he can offer. His sobriety is a priority.

---------------------------------------

^^^^^^

This

Katiekate

... Just as I was getting around my hurt feelings, my BF explained to me that what he said HAS NOTHING TO DO with me not being sexy or his recovery. All that, apparently, had to do with my kids.

Seriously???? your kids, is he kidding, makes no sense whatsoever.

You can't really think that this is in anyway the truth. It's a manipulation. This guy has serious issues.

It takes the responsibility for his bad behavior off of him and puts the focus on your kids.

Are you going to allow him to use your kids as an excuse, or is it his alcoholism???? Sobriety?? What is it?? He needs to get his ducks in a row if he is going to be gaslighting , denying, and imagining that he can pull the pillow case over your eyes.

Danae

Lots of great and heartfelt advice here already.

I worry about your statement that you can't just send a sick person away. If you are the single mother of 3 kids you certainly can keep him away from them, and from you. You don't owe a long process of discussion about this to him after only 8 months. You don't need to "make a fair decision" and talk it out ad infinitum--you are allowed to be done. Trying to untangle his issues after the fact may keep you enmeshed and make him happy, but it isn't really moving forward for you.

Glad you are searching out support on SR and thinking this through. I hope for your kids' sakes you decide to make a clean break. This can only be confusing for them, especially if they found him to be "fun".

Abelle

It was explained like this to me. He didn't say it was kids doing anything wrong. He said many times these are great kids and all. It was about him not realising to start with what it would be like having a relationship with someone with kids and then having experiences, which are totally unexpected. So that he had a set back and had to re-think the relationship. It kind of took his drive away, whatever was left after all the workouts he does as part of his sports job. He was worrying but did not tell me straight away, as he had to think it through and find a way to deal with it. So his mind was elsewhere and hence decline in his affections for me. If he's preoccupied, the last thing on his mind is sex. And saying what he said, he over-reacted to me putting pressure on him.

Katiekate

well then, instead of telling you he was not attracted to you he could have said,

I'm not sure I am up for a relationship with a woman with 3 kids. Why was he unable to express the truth of the situation from the get go????

I call bs. Sorry, the explanation has alot of holes.

Abelle

Thanks Danae. Kids aren't aware of any confusion, there aren't any discussions or even phone calls here. I change password on my mobile all the time too, since they like to play with gadgets and could just pick it up. When I think about a role model for my kids, I always realise eventually that they would be better off if I didn't date at all. I can make such a decision, especially that I can honestly say that I've tried. This time I really thought that this was the right person in every way. It looks like every time I come out worse and worse. So maybe it's time for me to reconsider my priorities and expectations altogether.

Abelle

This is exactly what I am talking about. He does explain things in a 'normal' way. AFTER. As if something there in the brain does not cope in moments of intensity. He first reacts in a strange ways, then goes does his program, prays, thinks and comes back with what he could have said in the first place. This is in the area of coping with emotions and communication skills. This area, if this is what's responsible for his slips, could be worked on and improved as part of his recovery. According to him (although all above is one of my theories, we did not discuss this), when he talks about now and a year or two ago, or when drinking, he had made a huge progress in learning how to deal with emotions and express them. So if this is an improved version... what was before must have been even bigger ouch! Hence the addiction, to keep that all away.

Katiekate

It's a good snow job sweetie. Addiction is not at the root of this behavior I don't think. He would not accept these excuses from you I am sure if the roles were reversed. He is telling you, feel sorry for me, I had a problem with addcition, I am in recovery, so I need a wide berth. You have to allow me to be emotionally abusive to you til I am completely recovered. I'm still not buying it.

I encourage you to seek outside support for yourself , it only gets worse from here.

soberhawk

I would think being sober for 3 years should have made you emotional and physically in balance. What you are seeing is what you are getting so to speak, I do not think there is any improvement to be made by understanding or special consideration.

I do hope I am not offending you Abelle – but you come across to me as very understanding, please be careful also to set your boundaries. You would not have started this thread if suspicion was not raised within you – I would listen to it.

It is fully acceptable in my view not to want to be in relationship with underage children. I have had kids the last 25 years – most of the time alone. I would not be interested in any relationship involving kids. It is not that I dislike them. I have just done my turn. I could become granddad in few years, I think I will take a couple of years without any kids to worry about.

But to say he wants a relationship with you, maybe, but does not want anything to do with the kids. That would strike me as rather selfish. Just the fact being around as a grown up where there are children and not being interested in their life and well being – is making a active statement that is not good.

I almost forgot to say welcome to SR.

I hope you do not feel cornered in and in the need to defend anything.

In the end nobody knows the full story as you.

Take good care of you and your kids.

Abelle

Katiekate, I am not trying to prove anything here but I can actually see the pattern, since I still remember that conversation very clearly. I blew up because of too much build up and no sex, sorry if too much info. Besides, I could sense something was happening and no explanation was coming. I could have talked to him earlier, before getting wound up but here you go. I am also quite an emotional person. So I complained of that exact thing, him saying this or that, and nothing coming out of it, basically what's wrong. This wasn't a conversation about kids. He got defensive and said the things he said. I stood my ground that there is nothing wrong with me, that I am healthy and find myself desirable enough. Then I kept it cool for a couple of days, giving him time to think about what's being said. He did. Then he contacted me to explain why his drive had gone.

All that made sense to me, even if it doesn't to you now. It's a delicate area, mojo comes and goes, things weren't that easy for both of us.

He never again said to me that I am not sexy enough or should do something about it. He apologised for it and was making compliments since then, as well as being a tender lover.

Unfortunately though, he still says he'd happily live without sex anyway. Which gives me an idea that this is simply the last thing on his list, whether it's me or anyone else. If it was not the case, he wouldn't be staying away from it for the last 3 years.

I don't know anymore, whether he feels attraction or not right now. He says he does, he shows he does, everything happens in the best way possible and I don't feel like it's fake. I actually see and feel it's real, as if he is actually starting to understand what this is all about. I must be in a la-la land.

needingabreak

"I can't just send a sick person away, who may simply not know how to communicate his issues to me."

Yes, actually you can. He is communicating very well actually. He told you exactly how he felt. You are having trouble believing it and are looking for any answer other than the truth. Why do you feel he is "sick?"

It makes me sad to see that someone can say those things to you and you think his being an alcoholic or having issues is a good enough excuse. If a man has anger issues, is it ok for him to beat his wife once a year? Twice? He blames you for not being attractive. He says he has trouble with the kids. However he worded it, he was telling you exactly how he felt. I am curious why you think he all of a sudden changed his mind and felt differently? He gave you examples of how you could be more attractive and said he didn't want sex. Now all of a sudden he does. Do you not find this odd that once you dumped him he changed?

"He was worrying but did not tell me straight away, as he had to think it through and find a way to deal with it. So his mind was elsewhere and hence decline in his affections for me."

He did tell you. He said you were not attractive and then went on to explain what you should do so he would be attracted to you. He told you the kids would be too much, did he not? Maybe that is ok with you that a man says the things he did to you and the excuse that he gives you" his mind was wandering" and "he had to think it through" are good enough explanations. How did you put pressure on him? It sounds to me like you were very caring and patient.
All I see is you trying to make excuses for what you know deep down is abusive behavior. Take the alcoholic part out. There is NO excuse for abuse. NONE.

I don't think you are ready to walk away and that is your decision. You are not alone. Many here will tell you they stayed as well..............for years...........hoping for a change, believing their ex's couldn't be that way.
You have received fantastic advice from so many who have been there, done that. What you chose to do with all the wisdom you have received is up to you.
I wish you the best.

AnvilheadII

ever heard the term....it's easier to Beg Forgiveness (after the Fact) than Ask Permission (before the Act).

Abelle, you're hanging in here tough, lady. admire that. but i gotta say, each time you try to further EXPLAIN why he is the way he is (aka it's not THAT bad....) i just find myself calling BS on his stuff. oh, was i speaking OUT LOUD when i told you i did not find you physically attractive and that you should sexy up if you want some? oh geez, snookums, i'm sorry.

that is CLASSIC active addiction behavior. goes with the alcoholic oath, which is sworn AFTER another drinking event:

I'M SORRY
PLEASE FORGIVE ME
IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN

until it does.

trust me, when i met hank i was still drinking (like for 7 years by then) and HE was about 3 hours into a crack cocaine relapse. we are today, 11 years later in total, 7 off crack - so i've seen and know what it's like to be on the using side and on the clean and sober side. i don't have the market cornered on recovery by any means, but i do know what it looks like.......and what it doesn't. behaviors, thoughts AND actions all sync up. consistency is KEY. sure it seems great that he reflects and then comes back with "what i meant to say was" but what comes out of his mouth the first time, without the FILTER often hurts you, a lot.

tossing out an example...one day hank and i were talking and he was saying how much he loved and valued me (this doesn't happen often) and his "compliment" to me was: you know baby, i've had all those arm candy prom queen kind of gals, and i'd rather have YOU."

cough. wow....um, thanks? ok, so what a woman hears from that is "while you aren't the prettiest most femme stylish broad on the block, i still like ya!" - what he was SAYING in his own way was that to him i am for more beautiful inside AND out then them. i KNEW he meant well.....it didn't HURT.

Abelle

If it gets worse, I won't stay. Drama is not what fuels my engines. We have agreed not to return to these issues and just enjoy time together. I will make sure kids aren't involved. Somehow I think that he will come up with new issues soon. Maybe will cut down on affection when next thing preoccupies his mind. Maybe something else. I like the advise on here to test him by talking to him about my emotions, which don't go with what he'd like to hear, and see how supportive he will be. I am sure an opportunity to do so will present itself. I have also found an Al-Anon meetings in the nearby town. Plus more reading. I guess, all this had opened my eyes to the huge world of addiction. Thanks for your support honey.

Abelle

I loved your post, it made me smile thanx. Does it seem to you that my (almost gone his own way) BF may be using right now?

AnvilheadII

they keep me around for comic relief.

i couldn't hazard a guess on him USING, but i can say it at least APPEARS that he is still holding onto, and enacting addict-type behaviors. raises my spidey senses for sure.

ShootingStar1

I'm with Danae

I've got to know I am doing the right thing when letting someone go. I can't just send a sick person away, who may simply not know how to communicate his issues to me.

Abelle, this is a co-dependent point of view. Right now, you and he are separate individuals exploring whether a longer term romantic relationship is what either or both of you want. As I have learned regretfully, I did not have the right to try to enforce my beliefs about what behavior is healthy or sick or good or bad on my husband. That's the beginning of a very slippery slope in relationships. You define him as "sick" and assume an obligation to "not just send him away sick" that doesn't exist except in your mind. You go further, having defined him as "sick" and you as his rescuer, to excuse him for his sickness because he may be ignorant of how to communicate.

He is who he is. He is who he wants to be, and he will be who he intends to be, whether anybody else finds that good, bad, indifferent, or any label we might choose to use. To see yourself as obligated to rescue him from an illness that he doesn't believe he has is intruding on his autonomy of being.

I did that, and after I divorced my AH of 20 years and really began to look at my part in our dysfunction, I found that I had been very arrogant without meaning to be. I had felt he needed to be reformed, and I had taken that on, uninvited, as my duty. I was wrong. Had I figured that out 12 years ago, maybe things would have been different. Who knows, can't tell, but it was a major contribution on my part to our marriage's dysfunction. I regret it. If I had let the chips fall as they fell without my "management" (read interference), his abusive alcoholic behavior might have been cut short or if not, I might have left years ago and spared myself and my kids a lot of pain.

There are people out there with other huge health issues, some need constant physical and/or emotional care. Not that I am able to sustain a relationship like that, while bringing up 3 kids on my own,

You are clear here about your first priority: raising 3 kids on your own. Keep that in first place as you think about this relationship and who and what gets enriched by it, and who and what gets diminished or compromised.

but at least I could figure out some issues in the relationship I agreed to and make a fair decision, instead of just throwing a towel and learning nothing from it.

It doesn't seem that either you or he has yet agreed to any relationship, and you are doing a thorough and commendable job of looking at the issues here on this thread. It may be that your decision is to "throw in the towel" and that you will make that decision based on exactly what you learned from really thinking through the issues in the relationship.

I don't mean to be harsh here; this is said with great empathy, compassion, and out of the grief of my own experience. Take what you want and leave the rest,

ShootingStar1