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Don't judge me to harshly please...Im just lost and trying to find my way.

Old 07-28-2010, 09:10 AM
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Don't judge me to harshly please...Im just lost and trying to find my way.

Alanon was the hardest hour of my life. Its all about taking care of yourself and leaving the alcoholic in "god's" hands. They said that an alcoholic isn't the one who has the breaking point and decides that they wanna change.."its god". OK, and I really hope you don't hold anything against me for this as others have in the past, I am not a religious person..meaning I'm not much of a believer in "god". I have studied to much science and evolution just makes sense to me as we are all still evolving today. God in my eyes was the ancient form of government control, fear people into doing what is right and supply hope for the Ill and dying. Which i suppose is what the world needed...ok Ill stop on that subject. Anyways so when they tell me that the only one can decide when my AH recovers is "god" it didn't go down well with me. And then they seemed so numb to the situation, like emotionless people just waiting for another day to go by that they have lived through with their alcoholic. Which I suppose is the only way you can truly live with an alcoholic is to be numb to the situation. It made me sad. I will ALWAYS care if he drinks or not, its not something I can just ignore and I shouldn't. Then the whole "take care of yourself" thing...here's the thing, since i was 7 yrs old and probably younger...its never been about me, I have cared for my mother when she had cancer and my brother because he was always so torn with the way our childhood was. My friends I have always been there for and then it was onto my grandma, boy friends, husband, kids....its never been about me..and I have no intention to make it that way.
For all of the believers out there..I just wanted to say that I WANT TO BELIEVE more then anything...and that is a good first step.
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:23 AM
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Kitty, hon, I TOTALLY get you and what you are saying and do not judge you at all. I also did not have a Higher Power, all my life. I also had the ideas and attitudes about God you have. My entire life, if I encountered anyone who so much as quoted a bible scripture, or even said the word "blessed", I would RUN LIKE HELL!!! But a couple years ago a very old friend of mine and I sort of held eachothers hand through some things and during that time, did a Bible study together. Now, I have a Higher Power, God. And it has changed me and my life. For the simple fact that I was able to just Let Go of all the prejudices, attitudes, fears, control, whatever it was, and mostly (in my mind) for MY FRIEND'S sake (not mine). It was like ACCIDENTALLY believing in God and finding, HEY this is not so bad and actually, quite good. Like they say in the Program, Let Go and Let God
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:26 AM
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I am certainly not judging you, hon. I completely understand how you are feeling about the meeting and their statements about God. I am of the belief that the only way an addict/alcoholic/codie is going to stop is when they have had all they can take and make a conscious decision to get help. Some people may want to say that is God at work, but it doesn't matter to me if it's God or the guy who runs the barber shop. The fact remains that they themselves have to make the decision.

It sounds to me like you are just doing what you have always done. You take care of others. Maybe you should be a nurse. But, seriously, if you are to get any peace of mind or serenity, you are going to have to make the decision to take care of yourself at some point. Not just that, but you have children who deserve better. If you won't take care of yourself for yourself, please do it for your kids. They don't have a choice on where they live or what goes on in the home. You do.
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:31 AM
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I certainly don't think anyone's going to judge you, dear.

I am not religious either. I was raised in a strict Catholic home, and when I came into recovery, I struggled with the whole 'God' concept. The only concept I had ever known was the God of my parents' understanding and the Catholic church's understanding.

My dad and I have gone several rounds because I haven't attended church in over 20 years.

My concept of God today has zero to do with any organized religion today, or anyone else's concept of God.

I have a higher power in my life, and I do choose to call that higher power God.

Most of us have a long history of taking care of others before ourselves.

I know I came to a point many times where that no longer served its purpose and I was in a great deal of pain.

I'm not quite sure what they meant in the meeting that the alcoholic doesn't have a breaking point because I beg to differ. I certainly had a breaking point in my alcoholism/addictions, and in my codependency.

There are good meetings and not-so-good meetings out there, hon.

Perhaps you need to look at other meetings?
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:52 AM
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No judgment here either. I second Freedom's suggestion to go looking for another meeting. One not-so-awesome Al-Anon meeting shouldn't deter you from seeking support for yourself.

I was raised in a very agnostic household, in the middle of a Catholic and Italian neighborhood. I was the "odd man out" in my elementary school: the only unbaptized child. I went to an all-girl private catholic high school and wanted nothing more than to be Catholic. It didn't work out due to some stupid paperwork stuff, and suddenly, I rebelled. I was an atheist through and through and have been ever since...

until my gorgeous miracle DD was born. She changed my life forever. Through Al-Anon, I realized that all the CRAP I'd been through with my abusive, narcissistic, NUTSOID XAH *had* to happen for DD to be born. She was only born in the last year of my marriage....And her presence in my life gave me the will power to leave her father. If I had remained childless, I would still be with AH, letting him verbally abuse me, destroy my soul, and stamp out all hope.

I still don't believe in the god of organized religion...I have a hate-on for Catholicism actually. I do however believe that I had a path to follow, so I could learn about myself, and so DD could be born. This speaks to me of a higher power, an organizational force or intention...not some white bearded robe-wearing angry dude sitting on a cloud, making ridiculous proclamations. Everyday, when DD wakes me up at 5 a.m. (ARG why so EARLY?!), and smiles at me, I know there's a higher power out there.
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:57 AM
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not some white bearded robe-wearing angry dude sitting on a cloud, making ridiculous proclamations.
Me neither, especially not the angry part.
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:15 AM
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Ditto with Freedom. Also, the reason why they say that you can't help the alcoholic is because he has to make the decision for himself. Unfortunately, there is no telling when that might happen. If you help an addict too much, you become an enabler/a rescuer. Good luck to you.
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:48 AM
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I too was raised in a Catholic home where religion was shoved down my throat, and I still do not practise nor believe in organized religion. But I was always into ghosts and otherworldly things and always in awe of nature that I saw around me. Those are where I've placed my HP (don't call it God). There are things on this earth beyond me and bigger than me. My educational background also feeds into this - I can't see radio waves yet they exist. How the heck can a telephone work? How does a huge ocean liner sit on water and yet if I step in it I sink? Birds can see different sprectrums of light than I, dogs hear different wavelengths than I. Everywhere around us are things beyond our knowledge, and this is where I derive my HP. I think of it this way - If I have the choice to carry a burden or unload it somewhere (anywhere), why not unload. This clears my shoulders to open myself up to something better. Like dropping the luggage onto the trolley in the lobby so that I can take brochures for fun stuff I'd like to do on vacation. Of course I have no idea if there is something there to take my burdens, but if they're off of me, that's ok! Nothing religious about it. I respect others and what they say in Al Anon even if it doesn't work for me. Take what you like and leave the rest. In my opinion I usually hear a lot of helpful things, more so than things I don't like, so it keeps me coming back.

I too am a caretaker, always have been. But I have learned that taking care of myself makes me a better person which in turns helps me to care for those in my life in a better way. When I am a happy and relaxed mommy because I took some quiet time in the morning and had a massage, then I pass that happiness to my daughter. Before, the way I was caretaking was by withdrawing from my bank account and building up the wealth of others, and that just left me empty and them filled. Doing it for yourself first only means you can have something in the bank too, and it doesn't mean you stop caring for others. Learning the line between caretaking for the sake of providing love and support however, is different than taking over the lives of others and directing them. That line is blurred with many of us, and when first stepping back, it can feel unloving and cruel. In the long run you'll get over that hump and then you start to feel positive effects. I've used the analogy before - that instead of cheering from the sidelines, I'd step into the game and score the goals for my husband. In that way, I took his ability to play the game away, and that is not my right to do.
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:22 PM
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For all of the believers out there..I just wanted to say that I WANT TO BELIEVE more then anything...and that is a good first step.
well, you could "try" prayer and see how it goes. many of us have been where you sit right now, but as we worked the steps, the unexpected began to happen. for myself, it's not even about faith anymore, as some pretty spectacular fantastic events have occurred once i surrendered and got out of the way.

i too have nothing to do with organized religion. i go to the church of my heart.

regarding evolution, of course there is evolution. all of us can see this with our own eyes. but that doesn't mean there isn't a creator or a divine plan for things. BOTH can co-exits, no?

i guess what i'm saying is that you, in your free will, could choose to try prayer and see what happens, how you feel, what opens up in your life.

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Old 07-28-2010, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by silkspin View Post
I too was raised in a Catholic home where religion was shoved down my throat, and I still do not practise nor believe in organized religion. But I was always into ghosts and otherworldly things and always in awe of nature that I saw around me. Those are where I've placed my HP (don't call it God). There are things on this earth beyond me and bigger than me. My educational background also feeds into this - I can't see radio waves yet they exist. How the heck can a telephone work? How does a huge ocean liner sit on water and yet if I step in it I sink? Birds can see different sprectrums of light than I, dogs hear different wavelengths than I. Everywhere around us are things beyond our knowledge, and this is where I derive my HP. I think of it this way - If I have the choice to carry a burden or unload it somewhere (anywhere), why not unload. This clears my shoulders to open myself up to something better. Like dropping the luggage onto the trolley in the lobby so that I can take brochures for fun stuff I'd like to do on vacation. Of course I have no idea if there is something there to take my burdens, but if they're off of me, that's ok! Nothing religious about it. I respect others and what they say in Al Anon even if it doesn't work for me. Take what you like and leave the rest. In my opinion I usually hear a lot of helpful things, more so than things I don't like, so it keeps me coming back.

I too am a caretaker, always have been. But I have learned that taking care of myself makes me a better person which in turns helps me to care for those in my life in a better way. When I am a happy and relaxed mommy because I took some quiet time in the morning and had a massage, then I pass that happiness to my daughter. Before, the way I was caretaking was by withdrawing from my bank account and building up the wealth of others, and that just left me empty and them filled. Doing it for yourself first only means you can have something in the bank too, and it doesn't mean you stop caring for others. Learning the line between caretaking for the sake of providing love and support however, is different than taking over the lives of others and directing them. That line is blurred with many of us, and when first stepping back, it can feel unloving and cruel. In the long run you'll get over that hump and then you start to feel positive effects. I've used the analogy before - that instead of cheering from the sidelines, I'd step into the game and score the goals for my husband. In that way, I took his ability to play the game away, and that is not my right to do.
This is some really good stuff. Thanks Silk.

Kittymamma, I never believed in God or organized religion, too much hypocrisy for me, thanks.

Much like Silk, I look around me and am in awe of nature and the universe. These are greater than me and are my HP. What ever this life force is, it's hard for me to describe, so easier to just call it God. My God/HP, my concept, how ever I decide to feel about it. A God of MY understanding.

I also agree that there are good/bad Alanon groups, ours suggests trying 6 different meetings before you decide it's not for you. Our group has 4 meetings a week, and each has a different "flavor", because of the different people who usually attend.

Like Silk said, if nothing else, the concept of a HP is a great place to unburden ours selves. Why the heck not use it.

Also, the concept of helping yourself first, I've heard in Alanon the analogy of the flight attendants emergency speech before a flight. You must put YOUR OXYGEN mask on first, or you will be unable to help anyone else.

That's all I got.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:30 PM
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I don't know if I believe in God either. I believe there's something though. It could be God. It could be the energy in the universe. It could even be emotional evolution. Maybe the pull of evolution is not just physical, but mental and emotional as well. Maybe fighting against evolving as a human is so stressful that at some point a person reaches their rock bottom and has no choice but to embrace recovery.

There are all kinds of ways you can go about it, but try not to get too hung up on one minor detail.
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by nodaybut2day View Post
She changed my life forever. Through Al-Anon, I realized that all the CRAP I'd been through with my abusive, narcissistic, NUTSOID XAH *had* to happen for DD to be born. She was only born in the last year of my marriage....And her presence in my life gave me the will power to leave her father. If I had remained childless, I would still be with AH, letting him verbally abuse me, destroy my soul, and stamp out all hope.

Everyday, when DD wakes me up at 5 a.m. (ARG why so EARLY?!), and smiles at me, I know there's a higher power out there.
Sometimes it almost feels like LMC was sent to "save me".

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:56 PM
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Non-believer here too!!!

I believe in the "Big Bang" theory and evolution to a certain extent, however I don't think we evolved from tadpoles. Being brought here by aliens, I like that one. And I hated Alanon!

"Detach sweethearts - when your A comes home and passes out on the kitchen floor intoxicated after reaming you a new ass,simply cover him/her with a blanket and step over the torture soul".

Right. But I questioned the order... "Do I kick him in the scull BEFORE or AFTER I cover him with the blanket??!!

It can be crazy. But different meetings mean different people different ideas. Maybe try some others.

But God is everywhere at the AA meeting and Alanon.

My RAH has a hard time with it also, but he's finding what works for him.

So do I. Where I live is beautiful, I find my peace in that. Watching my kids (when they are sleeping of course) I see hope in them.

People won't judge you here, but don't judge others on believe either. Keep an open and take what you need and leave the rest!

Keep posting
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:01 PM
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WOW you guys are amazing. I was so fearful to post that because I have been shunned so many times in the past. And yes I definitely believe that there is a higher power..I mean how could we all just exist with out it, and the love and compassion and strength we all have. There has to be something greater. My alanon group had the same about the 6 weeks of meetings to see if it is working for me, and yes I am going to try that. What I mean by not putting myself first is not that I don't take care of myself or that I am unhappy, its simply that when I was offered the advice of..well I am going to put the advice of "take care of yourself and leave my AH in gods hands" into the way I had interpreted it...."live your life and leave him behind to fend for himself" I cannot do this. Even though I am separated from him, I'm still here for him and I still care. I know he is capable of overcoming this..and I might just be to hopeful soon to open my eyes, but until that moment I am hopeful and supporting of his recovery. Well thank you everyone..thank you for listening and commenting. At least I know that if I don't find support in alanon, I have plenty here!
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:10 PM
  # 15 (permalink)  
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noday, I'm with you. My dd is a shining star, and every morning (yes, usually early too!!) I see an unabashed smiling little face and she showers me with hugs and kisses and I know too that I was led down my path to find her. She also helps me live in the present because she does. She is a great example of present and grateful living - she revels in minutia that I dismiss like a flower or a bee or a song and simply takes what is in front of her now. No worry about yesterday, that's all gone. Doesn't worry about the future. Goes with the flow, expresses her feelings as soon as she's feeling them. We should all take example from that!

Another note: My AH has a lot of trouble with 'God' in the AA meeting he (used) to attend. One guy in his group told him that if he doesn't believe in a God, it can be something as simple as your children. They are miracles!
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrrisT View Post
"Detach sweethearts - when your A comes home and passes out on the kitchen floor intoxicated after reaming you a new ass,simply cover him/her with a blanket and step over the torture soul".

Right. But I questioned the order... "Do I kick him in the scull BEFORE or AFTER I cover him with the blanket??!!
sorry to hijack, but that was *awesome*

I wasn't able to detach with love and all that...Perhaps because XAH's actions had already killed the love...perhaps because I wasn't patient enough to stick around and watch him self-destruct. All I could do was detach.

And no, I didn't believe that god decided when he was ready to recover. IMO, *he* was the one who needed to decide, and consequently, he never decided.
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:14 PM
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kittymammas, when I first got into Al-Anon I was trying to keep a relationship with an alcoholic who was addicted to crack cocaine (at the time he was only doing the alcohol, no crack). As I have indicated already, I did not believe in God and I was very confused about that whole thing.

But SOMEONE at that time told me something that helped me immensely. They told me that, every time I started to panic, every time I could not just "live your life and leave him behind to fend for himself" as you describe, every time I needed to walk away from the chaos and the pain in order to TAKE CARE OF ME, to picture two big hands coming out of the clouds. Yes, they are supposed to be God's hands. And to picture myself PLACING the alcoholic addict PHYSICALLY IN THOSE HANDS. For whatever reason, using that picture WORKED. I did not have to believe ANYTHING, just had to picture it. Hope this helps.
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:17 PM
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P.S. I recently (13 years later) TALKED on the phone with that alcoholic addict I pictured placing in God's hands and he is JUST FINE. Yes, he made it all this way without me.
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:16 PM
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It should be Kitty Karegiver!

There are so many similarities in all alcoholics just as there are in "Codies"

But what about the one's we don't hear about? They or their family members don't go to meeting or reach for help other places.

Maybe they are not angry life destroying alcoholics, maybe they function well in society and manage their alcoholism. Maybe they stay alone and don't involve anyone else. Maybe their families are too selfish care.

The point is, as similar as we are, there are many ways to do the right thing.

It's figuring out what will work for you and your husband.

Some recover, some never do, some with help of loved one and some have to lose everything to help themselves.

He is your husband after all, he has a disease as selfish as it is.

It is well within your right to do what you CAN for him.
SUPPORT & LOVE- NOT A PUNCHING BAG.

Being careful not to lose yourself and know when you have done all you can.

I don't know - maybe I'm totally off.

But it would nice if maybe that could work for you.
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrrisT View Post
But what about the one's we don't hear about? They or their family members don't go to meeting or reach for help other places.

Maybe they are not angry life destroying alcoholics, maybe they function well in society and manage their alcoholism. Maybe they stay alone and don't involve anyone else. Maybe their families are too selfish care.

I'm not sure but I might be able to offer some insight into this group. My mother got ill when I was about 5 years old. She went to doctor after doctor and no one could tell her what was wrong with her (I think this is when she started self-medicating with alcohol). After three years or so, she found a doctor who diagnosed her with RA (Rheumatoid Arthritis). She started getting medicine for it, but if you aren't aware there is no cure for this disease, and it is a slow, painfully debilitating disease. So she added to her medicine with drinks. I'm not sure when it became all out alcoholism, maybe when I was 13-14. She never had therapy to deal with her disease, and we did not as a family have therapy to deal with my sisters seizure disorder which also was a factor.

One of the reasons we never (despite my asking for it) sought help was because that was just not done in our family. So my father and I enabled, and my sister left home as early as she could. It had nothing to do with the family not caring, and it wasn't that the disease did not effect the family it did. Getting help for emotional problems was just not accepted.

I spent my whole entire life putting everyone's needs before my own, and self-medicating my misery with alcohol. It took me 20 years to actually realize this and several more to get enough of my ducks in a row to get sober. I had to establish boundaries with all my family members before I could even attempt to get sober and feel I could speak on a place like SR.

My mother can function fairly well, because my father takes care of her. She has good days and bad days, she also has major problems with pain killers at this time. She would kill me if she knew I was posting this, anonymous or not.

So I hope that sheds a little light on that subject.

Sorry about hijacking the thread. I believe in God and have since as far back as I can remember despite growing up in an Atheist/Agnostic home...go figure.
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