Right now I could just scream...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Right now I could just scream...
So I have been feeling really good about taking over all of my bills now that my student loan money was disbursed, and Dad was on the phone with me tonight.
He found every negative aspect he could think of for taking out student loans, including the fact he couldn't afford to pay that off in the future. Excuse me? WTF?!!
I paid back $8,000 in loans from my technical school education back in 1995.
Seriously, I just sat there for a few minutes letting him rant, while my jaw was on the floor.
I finally reminded him I am 52 years old and capable of making responsible decisions. He said in a sarcastic tone he was well aware I am 52 years old.
I had to end the conversation.
Wow. It was clear that he felt the loans were a bad decision, and he has no faith I will get a job.
Wow.
That really hurts.
He found every negative aspect he could think of for taking out student loans, including the fact he couldn't afford to pay that off in the future. Excuse me? WTF?!!
I paid back $8,000 in loans from my technical school education back in 1995.
Seriously, I just sat there for a few minutes letting him rant, while my jaw was on the floor.
I finally reminded him I am 52 years old and capable of making responsible decisions. He said in a sarcastic tone he was well aware I am 52 years old.
I had to end the conversation.
Wow. It was clear that he felt the loans were a bad decision, and he has no faith I will get a job.
Wow.
That really hurts.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
Freedom,
Man, that sucks!!!
Geez, you have already paid back big money, has he ever had to pay a school loan for you?
WTF?
You know, my father was an officer in the Army, when I told him I enlisted,
of course I didnt hear what I was waiting for all my life,
"beth, I am proud of you and I love you."
nope.
he said,
"dont leave your purse in your locker when you take a shower."
(ya know cause all enlisted types are thieves!).
damn.
I feel ya here Freedom.
I am damn proud of you. Keep up the good work!
Beth
Man, that sucks!!!
Geez, you have already paid back big money, has he ever had to pay a school loan for you?
WTF?
You know, my father was an officer in the Army, when I told him I enlisted,
of course I didnt hear what I was waiting for all my life,
"beth, I am proud of you and I love you."
nope.
he said,
"dont leave your purse in your locker when you take a shower."
(ya know cause all enlisted types are thieves!).
damn.
I feel ya here Freedom.
I am damn proud of you. Keep up the good work!
Beth
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Thanks Wicked, and no, he's never had to pay a loan back for me.
I had a wonderful day up until that point, and I'll be damned if I let it ruin my evening either.
I had a good cry, and now I'm putting it all in God's hands.
I had a wonderful day up until that point, and I'll be damned if I let it ruin my evening either.
I had a good cry, and now I'm putting it all in God's hands.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
Good, that is good.
You are doing so great, and we both know what needs to happen for you will.
It will.
Geeezzzz, fathers! Still mad at mine, and he has been dead 20 years!
Okay, enough about me.
:ghug3
You are doing so great, and we both know what needs to happen for you will.
It will.
Geeezzzz, fathers! Still mad at mine, and he has been dead 20 years!
Okay, enough about me.
:ghug3
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
Hey there lady,
Is he really mad because he thinks the loans are a bad decision?....maybe.
Is he just secretly sad because his girl doesn't need his help on this anymore?....That's my vote.
I'm shocked every time my caretaking mom gets snippy when I call to tell her of a domestic triumph. I'm almost 40, I should have a grasp of it by now.
I am finally getting better at remembering that she has always felt needed by me most when I can't clean a stain, need help with a recipe, or can't hem pants to save my soul etc. etc. Deep down it's a form of rejection for her and she just can't help but pick apart my effort. Often times, she will tell me to bring whatever it is over to her house so she can check it out. Check it out?? Like I need to be torn down in person. I have fallen for it before and wound up waiting while she redid the entire thing. Oy.
Take a deep breath and have some patience with your old dad. He knows your 52, but I'm sure he'd just like to still keep you his little girl if he could.
Alice
Is he really mad because he thinks the loans are a bad decision?....maybe.
Is he just secretly sad because his girl doesn't need his help on this anymore?....That's my vote.
I'm shocked every time my caretaking mom gets snippy when I call to tell her of a domestic triumph. I'm almost 40, I should have a grasp of it by now.
I am finally getting better at remembering that she has always felt needed by me most when I can't clean a stain, need help with a recipe, or can't hem pants to save my soul etc. etc. Deep down it's a form of rejection for her and she just can't help but pick apart my effort. Often times, she will tell me to bring whatever it is over to her house so she can check it out. Check it out?? Like I need to be torn down in person. I have fallen for it before and wound up waiting while she redid the entire thing. Oy.
Take a deep breath and have some patience with your old dad. He knows your 52, but I'm sure he'd just like to still keep you his little girl if he could.
Alice
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
Hmmm.
Let's say Amber hooks up serially with a string of abusive drunkie "men." Gets progressively worse, to the point where she starts escaping her pain with substances. Gets hooked. Life is full of pain and chaos. Years. And years. Decades.
One day, Amber sees the light of day. She musters the gumption to kick the substances, and "men." She decides her life is worth a damn. She decides to educate herself, whatever it takes.
Now you are of modest means, but thrilled that Amber is finally deciding she's worth more than a life of trashy men and substance abuse problems. You offer to help her with her education, any way you can. You have a little money, not much, but enough to make a difference.
Several years down the road, you see she is really serious. You see her sweat equity, her sacrifices. Because of this, you are willing to stretch yourself, to help her.
One day, unbeknownst to you, she gets student loans. You were not expecting this. First, you feel dismayed, and shocked, at the change. Why did she do this, get herself into debt, when you were helping her manage without taking on debt, you wonder? Why does she not want your help anymore? Your pride is a little wounded, you feel a bit betrayed, you are disappointed that your ability to help her improve has been cut off at the knees, and without so much as a discussion with you about your opinion. Maybe you aren't rich, but you love her, and want her to succeed. And it hurts, to feel the loss of this bond you had. It sort of bruises your pride, and triggers the codie self in you...
Just sayin' ... there's two perspectives when there are two parties, surrounding one set of circumstances. Are you sure your perspective is correct, in interpreting his reaction?
Food for thought.
CLMI
Let's say Amber hooks up serially with a string of abusive drunkie "men." Gets progressively worse, to the point where she starts escaping her pain with substances. Gets hooked. Life is full of pain and chaos. Years. And years. Decades.
One day, Amber sees the light of day. She musters the gumption to kick the substances, and "men." She decides her life is worth a damn. She decides to educate herself, whatever it takes.
Now you are of modest means, but thrilled that Amber is finally deciding she's worth more than a life of trashy men and substance abuse problems. You offer to help her with her education, any way you can. You have a little money, not much, but enough to make a difference.
Several years down the road, you see she is really serious. You see her sweat equity, her sacrifices. Because of this, you are willing to stretch yourself, to help her.
One day, unbeknownst to you, she gets student loans. You were not expecting this. First, you feel dismayed, and shocked, at the change. Why did she do this, get herself into debt, when you were helping her manage without taking on debt, you wonder? Why does she not want your help anymore? Your pride is a little wounded, you feel a bit betrayed, you are disappointed that your ability to help her improve has been cut off at the knees, and without so much as a discussion with you about your opinion. Maybe you aren't rich, but you love her, and want her to succeed. And it hurts, to feel the loss of this bond you had. It sort of bruises your pride, and triggers the codie self in you...
Just sayin' ... there's two perspectives when there are two parties, surrounding one set of circumstances. Are you sure your perspective is correct, in interpreting his reaction?
Food for thought.
CLMI
part time member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,910
I just lost my dad a few months ago. We were close but he could be trying at times! I don't think that he meant to be. I agree with Alice:
Take a deep breath and have some patience with your old dad.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
I'm going to give everyone a little background on Dad, and what's transpired/been said over the past couple of years.
My dad has always been my hero when it came to adversity and working hard to achieve goals in life.
He started out in the engine rooms of Northern Natural Gas at age 18. He worked graveyard shift for many years.
He'd supplement his income by running a combine for a good friend of his during wheat harvest. I remember him coming home all dirty and sunburned. He did that for many years.
He started attending night school when I was probably around 10. I didn't know what he was doing, only that he said it was going to lead to a better job. We'd drop him off at the college, and Mom would take us to a movie or something.
He was getting his associate degree in business administration. I think it took him something like 5 years.
He ended up being the district administrative supervisor for Northern Natural Gas. That was a very lucrative position in the company.
Enter the merger that formed Enron. At 52 years of age, my dad found himself without a job because his position had been "phased out."
He was devastated because he always thought he'd retire from Northern Natural Gas. He had worked his way up the ladder, inch by inch.
At that time, he had all of his life savings in Enron stock, every single penny of it.
He had a financial adviser, who told him more than once not to put all his eggs in one basket. He didn't listen, but choose to listen to another former co-worker who told him to hang with the Enron stock.
We all know what happened with Enron. Everything he had saved...*poof*.
He made a very poor decision that cost him his life savings, approximately 750K and he had to start all over, both in a career, and financially.
I have heard numerous times, from him, over the past two years that the reason he is still working at (now) age 77 is because that job pays my bills. If he weren't supporting me, he could retire. He has stated that clearly many times...that's not my 'interpretation' of what he has said.
I have heard that at least once a week for two years now from Mom. I have cried and apologized to both of them, and told them I can't get through school any faster than I am.
I hear how tired Dad is, that Dad needs to retire, and that weighs on my mind constantly. I know he needs to retire; he deserves to retire. He's still recuperating from his surgery on the abdominal aortic aneurysm.
So I made the decision that I did, to take out the loans, and take that burden off of Dad.
My dad has always been my hero when it came to adversity and working hard to achieve goals in life.
He started out in the engine rooms of Northern Natural Gas at age 18. He worked graveyard shift for many years.
He'd supplement his income by running a combine for a good friend of his during wheat harvest. I remember him coming home all dirty and sunburned. He did that for many years.
He started attending night school when I was probably around 10. I didn't know what he was doing, only that he said it was going to lead to a better job. We'd drop him off at the college, and Mom would take us to a movie or something.
He was getting his associate degree in business administration. I think it took him something like 5 years.
He ended up being the district administrative supervisor for Northern Natural Gas. That was a very lucrative position in the company.
Enter the merger that formed Enron. At 52 years of age, my dad found himself without a job because his position had been "phased out."
He was devastated because he always thought he'd retire from Northern Natural Gas. He had worked his way up the ladder, inch by inch.
At that time, he had all of his life savings in Enron stock, every single penny of it.
He had a financial adviser, who told him more than once not to put all his eggs in one basket. He didn't listen, but choose to listen to another former co-worker who told him to hang with the Enron stock.
We all know what happened with Enron. Everything he had saved...*poof*.
He made a very poor decision that cost him his life savings, approximately 750K and he had to start all over, both in a career, and financially.
I have heard numerous times, from him, over the past two years that the reason he is still working at (now) age 77 is because that job pays my bills. If he weren't supporting me, he could retire. He has stated that clearly many times...that's not my 'interpretation' of what he has said.
I have heard that at least once a week for two years now from Mom. I have cried and apologized to both of them, and told them I can't get through school any faster than I am.
I hear how tired Dad is, that Dad needs to retire, and that weighs on my mind constantly. I know he needs to retire; he deserves to retire. He's still recuperating from his surgery on the abdominal aortic aneurysm.
So I made the decision that I did, to take out the loans, and take that burden off of Dad.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
I'm sorry DeVon 
It sounds like your Dad became very dependent on you for several reasons, and now its made him very fearful. You're out of his control now, at least the control he thought he had over you.
It sounds like your Dad became very dependent on you for several reasons, and now its made him very fearful. You're out of his control now, at least the control he thought he had over you.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
Dev you made the best decision with the information you have at this time here and now. Whether that is a poor financial decision for you down the line, you can't know. Your father is like mine and seems to see himself as a protector and advisor to his children. On one hand he wants you to be self sufficient and manage your own finances, but on the other hand, he wants you to do it the way he thinks is best.
Back when I took on the task of building a house with my now XABF, I got taken by a scoundrel of a contractor and a crooked loan broaker. Those strikes against me and an ABF who began spiralling in his binge drinking left me holding the bag on a half built, structurally inadequate house and facing a massive debt to the bank if I couldn't finish it or unload it as-is. I sought out my folks and convinced them I had no choice but to finish the house myself hiring a new contract to do what work I could not.
I accomplished far more than I ever thought I could with that house and yet lost it to auction 2.5 years later to avoid forclosure. Two years later, I was left filing bankruptcy and had to include the loan from my folks in my list of creditors.
I have heard more than once from my mom that their retirement was delayed by the unpaid loan. I have apologized each time for my failure to pay to them back. I certainly dream of paying the loan back and scraping some of the salt from that old wound, but all I can do is forgive myself for doing what I thought I had to do.
I would be ready take on any financial burden in exchange for the emotional burden this brought me for sure.
Forgive yourself Dev. You are taking back a burden your father took on for you and that is the right thing for you right here and right now. Sometimes we try to do the right thing and are still met with a poor result. That does not mean the effort is wasted, though, does it? I think not.
Alice
Back when I took on the task of building a house with my now XABF, I got taken by a scoundrel of a contractor and a crooked loan broaker. Those strikes against me and an ABF who began spiralling in his binge drinking left me holding the bag on a half built, structurally inadequate house and facing a massive debt to the bank if I couldn't finish it or unload it as-is. I sought out my folks and convinced them I had no choice but to finish the house myself hiring a new contract to do what work I could not.
I accomplished far more than I ever thought I could with that house and yet lost it to auction 2.5 years later to avoid forclosure. Two years later, I was left filing bankruptcy and had to include the loan from my folks in my list of creditors.
I have heard more than once from my mom that their retirement was delayed by the unpaid loan. I have apologized each time for my failure to pay to them back. I certainly dream of paying the loan back and scraping some of the salt from that old wound, but all I can do is forgive myself for doing what I thought I had to do.
I would be ready take on any financial burden in exchange for the emotional burden this brought me for sure.
Forgive yourself Dev. You are taking back a burden your father took on for you and that is the right thing for you right here and right now. Sometimes we try to do the right thing and are still met with a poor result. That does not mean the effort is wasted, though, does it? I think not.
Alice
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 566
Ah, money, the great mischief-maker!
Hugs to you Freedom. How exciting that you're heading toward your goal of finishing school!
I haven't heard you say that you held a gun to your father's head to get him to loan you that money. That was his decision. You're making yours. It's all good.
Breathe deep, you're doing all you can do. Easier said than done, I know.
Sending hugs,
posie
Hugs to you Freedom. How exciting that you're heading toward your goal of finishing school!
I haven't heard you say that you held a gun to your father's head to get him to loan you that money. That was his decision. You're making yours. It's all good.
Breathe deep, you're doing all you can do. Easier said than done, I know.
Sending hugs,
posie
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
Posts: 2,615
It really doesn't matter why your dad said what he did, because what he said damn hurt you and took some of the gloss off how good you felt.
Just for now, accept that this was your decision and it makes you feel good and let the rest go to blazes.
I had a friend who rained on every parade of mine, til I finally told her to go away and take the black cloud away with her.
Your dad has been ill, is over tired and needs to retire, so you have given him freedom to choose to do that, and now it is just your business.
Any parent who keeps children dependent on them in any way, is even more dependent on their kids in my book, and a touch sick.
My kids have good strong legs, and they can stand on them, cause they sure don't need to have me do much for them.
Got my contribution down to providing back pats, hugs, smiles and kisses, and giving the nod of approval, all of which cost me zip.
Take care Von, and know how much you are loved, respected and admired, by loads of us here......I feel sorry for your dad, if he can't see the fantastic woman you are.
God bless
Just for now, accept that this was your decision and it makes you feel good and let the rest go to blazes.
I had a friend who rained on every parade of mine, til I finally told her to go away and take the black cloud away with her.
Your dad has been ill, is over tired and needs to retire, so you have given him freedom to choose to do that, and now it is just your business.
Any parent who keeps children dependent on them in any way, is even more dependent on their kids in my book, and a touch sick.
My kids have good strong legs, and they can stand on them, cause they sure don't need to have me do much for them.
Got my contribution down to providing back pats, hugs, smiles and kisses, and giving the nod of approval, all of which cost me zip.
Take care Von, and know how much you are loved, respected and admired, by loads of us here......I feel sorry for your dad, if he can't see the fantastic woman you are.
God bless
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((DeVon))) - I'm soon to be applying for financial aid. MY dad has the same misgivings as yours. He hasn't SAID "you won't be able to find a job", but has mentioned the 'ole "you're not getting any younger" bit, a few times.
I know that he is in a similar position to your dad..still working at 70, has no retirement money (except Social Security, and it's not enough), so no real chance of retiring. Even knowing this, it still hurts when he can't support my decision
For whatever reason, our dads have temporarily put a little dark cloud over us, but we're strong, and we will succeed...of that, I have no doubt! You have been my inspiration, for so long. I appreciate you and understand your decision.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
I know that he is in a similar position to your dad..still working at 70, has no retirement money (except Social Security, and it's not enough), so no real chance of retiring. Even knowing this, it still hurts when he can't support my decision
For whatever reason, our dads have temporarily put a little dark cloud over us, but we're strong, and we will succeed...of that, I have no doubt! You have been my inspiration, for so long. I appreciate you and understand your decision.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I'm still paying for my younger son's college (together with the kiddos' dad--we share the expense), but we have made it clear to him that any grad school (which he's considering) will be on his dime, and he has to apply for loans to pay for it. That's the way it worked in my family--the folks paid for undergrad (I had scholarships and it was really relatively cheap), and I took out my own loans for law school. It took awhile to pay them off, but it was a good feeling that I was taking responsibility for my own career choice.
My older son has futzed around with school, and I am no longer paying for it. His dad is, for now, but that is between the two of them. My older son has many "issues" and one of them includes the fact that he has never held a job that lasted longer than three months (younger son has worked throughout high school and college and is always willing to work). I cannot imagine continuing to support my older son financially forever. His dad means well, but I'm not so sure he is doing him a favor by continuing to let him live at home and go to school without any financial responsibility. I've expressed my opinion on that and then I shut up. I'm not the one who would have to enforce the "tough love" of kicking him out of the nest, and I do hope that he is able to get himself together and find some kind of gainful employment in the future. I think that he is using school right now to "stall" the inevitability of real life.
I guess I am meandering through my own thoughts about parental support. I don't know why your dad is behaving the way he is, but I understand how it feels like it's undermining your sense of confidence--we all would like for our parents to be proud of our accomplishments and self-sufficiency.
Really, all you can do is to let go of his issues--they are what they are. You can't "make" him feel the way you would like him to feel about it. FWIW, I think what you are doing is fantastic--it takes courage and gumption to do what you are doing at our age. I'm thinking about my own next career move--I can retire with a pension in a couple of years, and I'm thinking I may want to do something COMPLETLEY different. That may mean going back to school, myself, after a long time away from it. Don't know, I'm still figuring out what I want to do next.
Hugs, be proud of your accomplishments and your own self-sufficiency!
My older son has futzed around with school, and I am no longer paying for it. His dad is, for now, but that is between the two of them. My older son has many "issues" and one of them includes the fact that he has never held a job that lasted longer than three months (younger son has worked throughout high school and college and is always willing to work). I cannot imagine continuing to support my older son financially forever. His dad means well, but I'm not so sure he is doing him a favor by continuing to let him live at home and go to school without any financial responsibility. I've expressed my opinion on that and then I shut up. I'm not the one who would have to enforce the "tough love" of kicking him out of the nest, and I do hope that he is able to get himself together and find some kind of gainful employment in the future. I think that he is using school right now to "stall" the inevitability of real life.
I guess I am meandering through my own thoughts about parental support. I don't know why your dad is behaving the way he is, but I understand how it feels like it's undermining your sense of confidence--we all would like for our parents to be proud of our accomplishments and self-sufficiency.
Really, all you can do is to let go of his issues--they are what they are. You can't "make" him feel the way you would like him to feel about it. FWIW, I think what you are doing is fantastic--it takes courage and gumption to do what you are doing at our age. I'm thinking about my own next career move--I can retire with a pension in a couple of years, and I'm thinking I may want to do something COMPLETLEY different. That may mean going back to school, myself, after a long time away from it. Don't know, I'm still figuring out what I want to do next.
Hugs, be proud of your accomplishments and your own self-sufficiency!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 673
I don't think our Dad's intend to hurt their daughters. Mine alternately hurts and annoys me every time we talk. Hence, I call him rarely, and when I do, I emotionally prepare myself to listen to every oft repeated opinion that he has that he knows I disagree with and respond with "uh huh" to everything. It gets me through the conversation. Yet, I know he loves me. And I love him. Sigh.
It's tough as H*11 DeVonn, and I'm so sorry! I hurt for you!
HUGGS, TIGG
It's tough as H*11 DeVonn, and I'm so sorry! I hurt for you!
HUGGS, TIGG
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by LexieCat 
Really, all you can do is to let go of his issues--they are what they are. You can't "make" him feel the way you would like him to feel about it.
I've got two parents who qualify for Alanon, Dad definitely qualifies for ACOA, and neither have wanted any semblance of recovery for themselves since I got clean/sober the first time. They are 'fine'.
My sponsor reminded me of the pattern over the years where the financial support has come with strings attached, and used as a way to control me.
In effect, I have taken that away-I cut the strings.
He can work out his own issues, and I will continue forward.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
LOL I really identified because I have a bomb to drop on my Dad about a financial decision that he was quite adamant about what I should do (the first time he has really done that with me ever as an adult) and I am not following his advice.
I would if I could!
I am lucky...he didn't answer the phone so I delivered it by email and I will say that he is better at minding his business than most.
I know he thinks what I am going to do is a mistake, but it is MY mistake if it is.
I sure didn't want to have that phone conversation tho'!
I got a little money settlement and it is to move on. Dad insists that I buy something way modest with land. no payments.
I cannot find that in the area I want to move to.
SO, I am going to buy an older mobile home for cheap with low lot rent and still have more than that purchase amount in savings.....
I am moving to ******* TN/VA
I have satisfied myself that I will love it there..that is what I need to know primarily.
I would if I could!
I am lucky...he didn't answer the phone so I delivered it by email and I will say that he is better at minding his business than most.
I know he thinks what I am going to do is a mistake, but it is MY mistake if it is.
I sure didn't want to have that phone conversation tho'!
I got a little money settlement and it is to move on. Dad insists that I buy something way modest with land. no payments.
I cannot find that in the area I want to move to.
SO, I am going to buy an older mobile home for cheap with low lot rent and still have more than that purchase amount in savings.....
I am moving to ******* TN/VA
I have satisfied myself that I will love it there..that is what I need to know primarily.
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