Blogs


Notices

AVRT to end emotional binge eating Part 2

Old 10-28-2013, 02:02 PM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
Dee74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 195,101
Blog Entries: 1
AVRT to end emotional binge eating Part 2

part one here:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...eating-21.html

D

Last edited by Dee74; 11-03-2013 at 01:37 AM.
Dee74 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dee74 For This Useful Post:
Jeni26 (10-29-2013), lovetosail (11-07-2013), MidnightBlue (10-29-2013)
Old 10-28-2013, 04:42 PM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Not The Way way, Just the way
 
GerandTwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,414
Blog Entries: 13
Since we've come to the beginning of Part 2 of this thread, and it's about AVRT, I felt it was time for me to mention my sense of incompatibility with the term "cope" in the thread title. For me the best synonym for "cope" is "to keep one's head above water", and for me AVRT does the opposite of leaving me in a position of "coping" with an addiction. AVRT allows me to actually put the addiction into my past by making recovery more of a short term event. It is particularly the Big Plan which makes this happen. The logic of it is clear to me. AVRT is intended to be essentially effortless - recognize the AV - separate from IT - and (for those who made one) recall having made the Big Plan. I really feel there's nothing for me to "cope" with anywhere in AVRT.

I suppose I would have to "cope" with an addiction if I understood AVRT and didn't use it, but that's really a simple choice, as I see it.

I used AVRT to END (not cope with) my addiction to sugar.
GerandTwine is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GerandTwine For This Useful Post:
Altoids (04-12-2014), Jeni26 (10-29-2013), MidnightBlue (10-29-2013)
Old 10-28-2013, 05:04 PM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
Dee74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 195,101
Blog Entries: 1
If we're being properly semantic the Oxford use of the word cope is pretty definitive

cope
Pronunciation: /kəʊp/

verb
[no object]

(of a person) deal effectively with something difficult:
(of a machine or system) have the capacity to deal successfully with:
D
Dee74 is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Dee74 For This Useful Post:
Altoids (04-12-2014), iGirl66 (07-04-2015), Jeni26 (10-29-2013), MidnightBlue (10-29-2013), RobbyRobot (10-29-2013), Skye2 (10-28-2013)
Old 10-28-2013, 08:19 PM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Not The Way way, Just the way
 
GerandTwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,414
Blog Entries: 13
Dee,

It's good to see you back and active.

I think "cope" has a spectrum of meanings, and I believe you're correct with that definition of the intransitive use of "cope with".

My feeling of incompatibility with the phrase "AVRT to cope with..." can best be described from the following edited quote:

(from p. 213 of Rational Recovery, The New Cure for Substance Addiction, by Jack Trimpey, 1996)
Experts ... give convincing and fascinating arguments that addiction has many causes, ... and that a recovery program must deal with these issues so that recovering people can cope. ... Yet AVRT insists that addiction has but one cause, the Addictive Voice, and it sets you adrift on the wavy sea. "It can't be this simple," you may hear. "You need help, but you can't be helped."

Moreover, your life was organized for years around drinking and the high life, and that pleasure became the meaning of life. If you felt bad, you drank to feel better; if you felt good, you drank to enjoy feeling good. ... From time to time, as the substance took effect, it seemed worth it all. "Ahhhhh! That's better," said your Beast, as you lifted of into the "home zone" of sensory pleasure.

Now you abstain from that pleasure. It is not an option or even a possibility. (from p. 213 of Rational Recovery, The New Cure for Substance Addiction, by Jack Trimpey, 1996)
So, using Trimpey's metaphor, I'd rather be "adrift on the wavy sea" of life with my Big Plan and AVRT, than "coping with" my addiction by struggling to "keep my head above water" (a definition for "cope with" from my computer's dictionary) in the belief I have to do certain prescribed behaviors to keep alcohol (or sugar) out of my mouth. This way, I get to be in control of my future, not some recovery program, because AVRT is ONLY about NOT doing something, and that can soon come to take virtually NO time and effort.

I want to make sure to add that I believe it can be very sensible for recovered people to choose to get "mental health" assistance from professionals. But, for myself, I would only choose professionals who would accept that my addiction had already been solved through my personally planned permanent abstinence.

GT
GerandTwine is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to GerandTwine For This Useful Post:
Altoids (04-12-2014), HeadLump (10-29-2013), Jeni26 (10-29-2013), MidnightBlue (10-29-2013), Received (10-29-2013), RobbyRobot (10-29-2013)
Old 10-28-2013, 08:38 PM
  # 5 (permalink)  
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
Dee74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 195,101
Blog Entries: 1
Yeah - if you're firmly wedded to the idea that to cope with something necessarily means a struggle, I can certainly see why you wouldn't like the title GT

I'll only change the title tho if the OP asks me to.
D
Dee74 is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Dee74 For This Useful Post:
GerandTwine (10-28-2013), Jeni26 (10-29-2013), MidnightBlue (10-29-2013), RobbyRobot (10-29-2013)
Old 10-29-2013, 07:11 AM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Sober since October
 
MidnightBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,311
Blog Entries: 42
Hi, pals)

I had a conversation with my brother today in the morning, and though I am doing ok talking "business" to him, and there's some progress about real estate matters, I am feeling like the pin is pulled out of my emotional grenade and I just want to shred him to pieces and finally get my satisfaction.

So it's hard for me to pull some thoughts together about AVRT...

Dee - thank you for the new thread!

GT - good point, actually, about this "cope" thing. I didn't give it much thought when named it back then.

I will be back to this question once I settle down my emotions a little bit.

But while I am doing this, I'd like to hear opinions of other participants of our badass gang here - what do you think? Should we change the name? If so - what name would be better to choose?

Headlump - I'll be happy to share my experience with you, just once I get myself together. Stay strong) I am sending you my badass vibrations.

Jeni - hi to you)

See you all later.
MidnightBlue is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MidnightBlue For This Useful Post:
GerandTwine (10-29-2013), HeadLump (10-29-2013), Jeni26 (10-29-2013)
Old 10-29-2013, 07:31 AM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Sober since October
 
MidnightBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,311
Blog Entries: 42
You know, I think I still have to say one thing about AVRT by far - though my emotions is all over the place, I do not even considering the option of having a cookie/ice-cream/cake.
MidnightBlue is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MidnightBlue For This Useful Post:
GerandTwine (10-29-2013), HeadLump (10-29-2013), Jeni26 (10-29-2013)
Old 10-29-2013, 07:37 AM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Member
 
Jeni26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 7,978
Hi MB. Can't believe we got through 500 posts..what a crazy few months we have had.

Sorry you're going through an emotional time...it must have been passed through a psychic link between us because I was at meltdown point yesterday too. I think I'm feeling better today, certainly no worse anyway. Sometimes girl we have just got to walk through some storms to get back into the sunlight...

It seems to me that every time issues swamp me and I struggle, I re-emerge stronger than ever so I'm bloody well hoping that this is the case now too. Otherwise I'm packing my rucksack and off to hike round the world on my own...and that was said only half-jokingly...

So...deep breaths...smile in place. Now. What was the question? Should the word 'cope' be removed. Yes, I think so. What do you think? Cope implies a struggle (and God forbid we've ever done that! Lol). We've learned how to apply AVRT, but the struggle has been within ourselves not the concept.

I really don't mind though MB. This thread was your baby. I just hitched on for the ride. And pretty pleased I did too. Kicked that smoking out didn't i ? And made some good friends along the way. Thanks my lovely xxx
Jeni26 is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Jeni26 For This Useful Post:
Altoids (04-12-2014), GerandTwine (10-29-2013), HeadLump (10-29-2013), MidnightBlue (10-29-2013)
Old 10-29-2013, 07:45 AM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Member
 
Jeni26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 7,978
I just re-read your post MB and was taken back a bit by you wanting to shred your brother to pieces... I mean isn't that a bit harsh?! I confided in a friend about a few marital issues I'm having and she advised me to 'throw a shoe at him'...I mean that's FAR more ladylike

Glad I've got you in my life my friend


Oh and thanks Dee for the new thread!x
Jeni26 is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jeni26 For This Useful Post:
HeadLump (10-29-2013), MidnightBlue (10-29-2013)
Old 10-29-2013, 10:28 AM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Realising my life
 
HeadLump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Dorset, England
Posts: 3,656
Bless you all, my friends. You've really helped me today

I loved that last post, Jeni! Excellent!

I do hope calm descends soon, MB. Your badass vibrations feel brilliant from here. In return I'm sending you waves of mellow mindfulness and meditation Just breeeeathe..

It's a bit of a mouthful (hey, no pun intended!!!) but we could rename the thread: AVRT and freedom from emotional binge eating. That's much more positive!

Thank you!
HeadLump is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to HeadLump For This Useful Post:
GerandTwine (10-29-2013), Jeni26 (10-29-2013), MidnightBlue (10-29-2013)
Old 10-31-2013, 11:04 AM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Sober since October
 
MidnightBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,311
Blog Entries: 42
Hi, pals)

There was breakage of internet connection, so I just got it fixed today.

I'm still here and get back tomorrow to discussing the name of new thread and our badass AVRT)

Hugs to all.

Have great badass Halloween.
MidnightBlue is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to MidnightBlue For This Useful Post:
Jeni26 (11-02-2013)
Old 11-01-2013, 04:33 AM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Sober since October
 
MidnightBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,311
Blog Entries: 42
Hi, pals)

I have a lot to say about these days, but not so much time to write another mini-novel)

So, again I will split my thoughts into several posts.

Let's get back to the new name for the thread.

I think changing of Part II name will be natural progression - during most of these 5+ months I've been really coping with binge eating. I am not saying that this coping didn't bring its own fruits - no way - through all this coping I came to realize a lot of things essential to my overall recovery - both emotional and physical - "Big Picture" recovery. But I couldn't get this "light bulb moment" of AVRT.

And thanks to this long road, and help of my precious pals, and absolutely great insight of GerandtWine I finally got it.

There's still fight to be win about many things that surround my passed away emotional binge eating - it's primal causes, reasons of anxiety that stand behind and tend to migrate and reincarnate in other forms of addiction, resistance, and procrastination.

But as for sweets and binge eating - it's done.


'It's the way you name your ship
That's the way it's going to row"


So, we have the variant of HeadLump, and there are some of mine:

AVRT to kick out emotional binge eating (kind of badass name)
AVRT to break free from emotional binge eating (close to this of HeadLump)
AVRT to let go of emotional binge eating.

Anyone else to come out with a name?

Though, as Jeni said, the thread is my baby, this baby wouldn't grow up and be so well educated without your assistance and insights.

Oh, and you know, I've come out with my own meaning of the BEAST:

Binge
Eating
And
Sweets'
Trap

Hugs to all. See you soon. I have another Big (Badass) Plan to make today)
MidnightBlue is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MidnightBlue For This Useful Post:
GerandTwine (11-02-2013), Jeni26 (11-02-2013), LifeRecovery (11-01-2013)
Old 11-01-2013, 12:24 PM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Sober since October
 
MidnightBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,311
Blog Entries: 42
Hi, again, pals)

Tired after a boxing class, so I will keep it short. Mega-short, actually.

My next Big Badass Plan is about all salty snacks - crackers, potato chips, and all other crap that falls under this category.

I caved to some of this crap yesterday and feel awful today.

So, I will not eat crackers, potato chips, and any other snack of the kind any more. And I will never change my mind. Beast can go shoot itself out of misery right now.

See you all tomorrow)

Have a great badass weekend.
MidnightBlue is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MidnightBlue For This Useful Post:
GerandTwine (11-02-2013), Jeni26 (11-02-2013)
Old 11-02-2013, 05:57 AM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Not The Way way, Just the way
 
GerandTwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,414
Blog Entries: 13
MB,

Wow, great going with AVRT!

I was thinking the same thing about just changing the name of part 2. All the new ideas are good so there's no need for me to add another. It is your pick MB.

Hey! Nice new Big Plan! Reading about it really gave a left hook to my greasy, salty, processed, fried food Beast! Hmmmm. Thanks. Getting closer to doing it myself.

GT
GerandTwine is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GerandTwine For This Useful Post:
Altoids (04-12-2014), Jeni26 (11-02-2013), MidnightBlue (11-02-2013)
Old 11-02-2013, 06:14 AM
  # 15 (permalink)  
Self recovered Self discovered
 
freshstart57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,147
While I agree with the meaning of the word cope, I also understand that it has some sort of continued action aspect. For me, that is not how I see the effect that AVRT had on my drinking.

I don't believe that the title needs changing, but it might be truer to the spirit of AVRT if it read 'AVRT to END Emotional Binge Eating'. Thanks, GT, for making the point.
freshstart57 is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to freshstart57 For This Useful Post:
GerandTwine (11-02-2013), HeadLump (11-03-2013), Jeni26 (11-02-2013), MidnightBlue (11-02-2013), RobbyRobot (11-03-2013)
Old 11-02-2013, 09:53 AM
  # 16 (permalink)  
Sober since October
 
MidnightBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,311
Blog Entries: 42
Hi, all)

I am ok today. The beast has made a couple attempts like "if I am not eating sweets and salty snack, maybe then we can go and buy some bread and cheese instead to divert you from things you are supposed to do now? What a beautiful form of procrastination". Yeah, right - I am not bingeing on ANYTHING, idiot.

GT - glad you liked my new BBP and your beast got what it deserved - and I have a pretty decent right cross, you know...))

Freshstart - thank you for the input! And for the suggested name of the thread - I actually like it. It's no-nonsense and conveys the message of AVRT.

So, I think we may ask Dee to change the name of Part II into 'AVRT to END Emotional Binge Eating'.

P.S. I got myself a mouth guard, but no helmet yet - should hurry with it - jabs keep landing on my face)

See you, pals.

Have a great day.
MidnightBlue is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to MidnightBlue For This Useful Post:
freshstart57 (11-02-2013), GerandTwine (11-02-2013), HeadLump (11-03-2013), Jeni26 (11-02-2013)
Old 11-02-2013, 10:16 AM
  # 17 (permalink)  
Member
 
Jeni26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 7,978
I'm liking the new name. Great idea.

Well done on your new big plan MB. I am finding my AV is playing games with me at the moment...'so you don't eat cake? Does that mean only sponge? Surely cheesecake will be ok then?' This is followed by a few days of eating cheesecake like it's going out of fashion. Also, I'm now hooked on yogurt. It just looks for loopholes in my Big Plan and then drives me crazy with it.

As you know, I was never an emotional binge eater. I just eat cr*p however I'm feeling, and this has only really got out of hand since I quit smoking.

I'm not sure whether to re-look at my Big Plan and tighten it up a bit. The whole mental process that it's putting me through at the moment is very wearing. I've started eating crisps...never liked them before, but it just becomes one obsession after another and it's driving me crazy (or crazier, as I was pretty crazy in the first place!)

Don't know, but I'm a bit disheartened. What do you think? I want it to go the same way as the smoking. There is no way I would ever take that up again now. Just the thought of it makes me feel a bit queasy. But I was able to wrap that whole deal up in the 'I'm not going to smoke again for my kids' and it became almost a morality issue. Can't do that with the cookies, cake, ice cream and chocolate. No one would care if I started eating those again.

Hmm...sort of losing a bit of momentum here.
Jeni26 is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Jeni26 For This Useful Post:
Altoids (04-12-2014), HeadLump (11-03-2013), Itchy (11-18-2013), LifeRecovery (11-03-2013), MidnightBlue (11-02-2013)
Old 11-02-2013, 11:13 AM
  # 18 (permalink)  
Sober since October
 
MidnightBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,311
Blog Entries: 42
Jeni, my pal, please, don't be disheartened.

It's annoying and upsetting, yes. I understand you perfectly, because I've been there a lot of times.

Yes, it is not the same as smoking of drinking.

It is much more badass challenge.

First, wine and smoking are "straightforward" addiction - you either drink alcohol/lit up a cigarette, or no.

Second, these addictions are "recognized" by society as harmful, so it's much easier to make it crucial and important goal to stick to.

As for cookies, snacks, etc. - here things are getting more "interesting".

No one would care or blame your for eating this. Everyone is doing it. A lot of people do it to cope with stress, anxiety, depression, etc. And only few take courage to realize that it is not so "innocent" - it is one of the Beast heads as well.

You have this courage. There's no doubt about this.

And you surely deserve to end every reincarnation of the Beast leaving it no space in your life, whatever mask it prefers to wear. And you surely deserve to eat good food that will bring you energy instead of tons of sugar that causes anxiety (it really does - I can tell you from my experience). You surely deserve to choose the best "fuel and construction material" for you body - because in the long run (and in short as well) it will help you to look great and stay young and active as long as it ever possible.

My AV has been playing these tricks with me all the time.

First, with definition of bingeing.

Then, after quitting sweets to more "comforting" food - like bread, cheese, dried fruits ( I love dates), nuts, etc. List can go forever.

I have no wish to ban nuts or dates. DOes it mean I am going to binge on them? Hell, no.

Because when I feel this urge to go and buy myself some food - just anything, but something delicious, just because I am worried, afraid to sit to writing, mad at my brother, etc. - I know that it is not me, it is my AV barking.

Yes, for crying outloud, what could be more "innocent" than wholegrain bread and cheese? But only if eating this doesn't mean I am running from my fears again.

Morality...I, to tell the truth, almost hate this word. Because so many nasty things go behind the shield of morality. I wonder - do producers of such uber crap like potato chips (waste deposit of transfat, burnt potatoes, and lots of artificial ingredients) think about morality? Morality when they produce this crap, spend lots of money to advertize it, and make us believe we absolultey need this in our life. Really, the Earth would just stop rotating if manufacturing of chips (cookies not much better if you look at ingredients) stops. And when I mention I don't eat it, some people tell me: "Oh, don't become obsessed with healthy eating?". Really? Come on. What kind of morality is this?

Sorry, didn't meant to sound preaching...

Back to the original topic.

The Beast doesn't want to die. It will grab every straw of hope to survive - even if it is bingeing on greeen salad.

Be ruthless with it. You don't need any crap to beat anxiety - it never helped anyone regardless of conventional beliefs.

Take a deep breath, feel this uneasiness, sit with it for 10 minutes. What is that the beast is trying to hide from you behind this anxiety?

I know what - your next level of self-confidence and power. Because once you discover it, there's no way back. AV will never be able to feed you this BS again.


And don't be so hard on yourself. You may be lost a little beat of momentum right now, but it's ok - it's a new thing for you. You'll bounce back and kick its a$$. Because you are a real fighter.

Keep your chin up!

And I am always here for support)

Hugs to you, my badass pal.


Headlump - how are you doing?


My positive vibrations to all)
MidnightBlue is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to MidnightBlue For This Useful Post:
Altoids (04-12-2014), Billymac75 (09-20-2014), freshstart57 (11-02-2013), GerandTwine (11-02-2013), Gilmer (09-29-2014), HeadLump (11-03-2013), Jeni26 (11-02-2013)
Old 11-03-2013, 01:39 AM
  # 19 (permalink)  
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
Dee74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 195,101
Blog Entries: 1
Title changed, as requested.

D
Dee74 is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Dee74 For This Useful Post:
HeadLump (11-03-2013), Jeni26 (11-03-2013), MidnightBlue (11-03-2013), RobbyRobot (11-03-2013)
Old 11-03-2013, 03:23 AM
  # 20 (permalink)  
Member
 
Jeni26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 7,978
Thanks Dee.

And thanks MB. You are amazing. Think I need to give myself a bit of a talking to at the moment. Sometimes I feel so strong I could take on the world, and at others....well it's the same old BS over and over. I'm setting myself huge goals emotionally. I should be....why am I not....I'm never going to.....

I need to practice my mindfulness and sit with whatever. Running round in circles is good for no-one.

I'm ok. I will give the whole eating thing some thought. You know what worked best for me happened during those first few months when I gave up smoking. I was going to the gym, I was eating properly, I reminded myself that I was worth it. Somewhere along the line I stumbled from this path. And the beast started playing peek-a-boo with me again.

I will get there. Thanks my friend. Xx
Jeni26 is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Jeni26 For This Useful Post:
Altoids (04-12-2014), Artful (01-07-2014), Billymac75 (09-20-2014), Dee74 (11-03-2013), freshstart57 (11-03-2013), Gilmer (09-29-2014), HeadLump (11-03-2013), LifeRecovery (11-03-2013), MidnightBlue (11-03-2013)

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:02 AM.