When does the house of cards fall?

Old 04-29-2022, 09:46 PM
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When does the house of cards fall?

Hello all. First time member here, but after many nights of online searching, it seems I've found a community of others with similar experiences with their loved ones.

My spouse of 5+ years has been a social drinker and weed user as long as I've known him (over 10 years). He gave up weed for many years because of his job and has recently picked it back up socially, but never took a break from drinking - primarily in social situations.

When we met freshly out of college, he would get belligerent and make very poor choices, but as he got older, he rarely got to that level. However, the drinking and the tolerance got notably heavier in the last few years.. Not uncommon - nightly bottles of wine. Cases of beer. Handles of liquor. Sometimes combinations of each of these daily (weeknights and all day on weekends, holidays, etc.)

I've been vocal about my concerns about our future with these habits so prevalent and how they've affected our communication, marriage, and more. He sees truly no issue with it for multiple reasons: 1) He is physically fit and exercises early in the mornings multiple times per week. 2) He holds a great job with a great income. 3) He is professional, responsible with money, mature, and a great/responsible pet owner. 4) His parents and siblings drink in the same manner and they are also successful and 'happy' by all outside accounts.

However, it has demolished our relationship, intimacy, communication, and he has been unpredictably cold and moody to me for years now. He rarely engages with other friends or activities.

I wonder, daily, if I am just overly-sensitive since I drink very rarely - just isn't my thing. But when I see how it has controlled his life and decisions, I think my assessment of his alcoholism is accurate. (We are now separated and he is choosing to stay with family members who he drinks with daily even though he is very capable and financially stable to get his own space). He says that he will not allow me to bully or control him into changing his habits on the timeline I see fit, and that I knew who he was from the beginning (back when we were 21 & 23) so he doesn't see a future for our marriage if I can't accept that.

I suppose all this background is to say - is this a common theme in high-functioning alcoholism? Highly successful? No financial, legal or health implications? Doesn't drink during the day? Seeming to be holding everything together while still engaging in a daily "happy hour" with his family that runs from 5 - 11 PM each night? Life is going great for him, so why would he see a reason to change? Does the house of cards ever actually fall?

I am so sad to see a decade-long relationship end this way.. I feel like I'm being gaslit by him (and his family at times) to believe that it's me who is the problem and they are all just enjoying cocktail and life and I should get on board.

As I said, I question myself daily on if this is "real" alcoholism, but when it comes to my life, health, and the possibility of adding children, I have to take a hard look.

Thank you in advance for any shared experiences or feedback.
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Old 04-29-2022, 09:55 PM
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hi tacomas - welcome

well, I was very good at hiding my drinking and not letting it bleed into the other areas of my life...until I wasn't...and that happened very suddenly.

It may happen that way for him, it may not...but the odds aren't good that 'functional alcoholism' (in itself a ridiculous term) lasts long.

The fact is no matter how 'functional' your husband might appear, its already a problem for you...faced with a choice between genuinely responding to your concerns and drinking, he's essentially choosing to continue to drink, so you have a right to be concerned and I agree you have every right to take a hard look.

You'll find a lot of support here

D
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Old 04-29-2022, 10:20 PM
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Hi and welcome.

Being on both sides of the fence, yes, it gets worse, no we aren’t supposed to drink poison, and his addiction is choosing booze over you. It won’t change unless he wants to, and he clearly believes his life is working for him.

if you want children, do you want them with an active alcoholic ?

We aren’t well active in our addiction, we are selfish and have an immediate reward goal at ALL costs.

People who are addicted don’t drink less on the timeline.

Non addicts don’t pick drugs over the love of their life.

Addicts can only recover with complete abstinence when and IF, THEY want to. No sooner .

hugs
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Old 04-29-2022, 10:40 PM
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Welcome, Tacomas, glad you have found us.

Sorry for this situation you are having to deal with. I relate very much to the confusion you feel. I experienced that with my drinking husband. I wondered if I was overly sensitive too. I think this came about from the lying, hiding and gaslighting that alcoholics routinely.

I ended up not believing my own eyes to things going on right in front of me. My brain was so foggy.

You are very much correct in your outlook. He is twisting it all around and making your fault, again which is what alcoholics do. It is him who is bullying you not the other way around.

I encourage you to read around this board, I am sure you will relate to what others are sharing.

Glad to read you are separated so you can decide what you want from your life. Do you want the heartbreak and chaos alcoholism brings?
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Old 04-30-2022, 02:29 AM
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Given that you are separated it seems the house of cards is already falling.

Your story is very similar to mine. We have been separated a year but he lives by himself. Recently I found out via the police his drivers license was suspended and he was picked up for driving suspended but he continues to drive around anyway. He has no idea I know. I don’t feel like I know him anymore. Gradually health stuff is happening too like blood pressure problems and gastrointestinal problems despite keeping himself reasonably fit. Maybe there is other things he’s not telling me. Somehow he seems to maintain the work he has but then again if he lost a job he probably wouldn’t tell me anyway! Lying goes a long with the territory unfortunately so it’s hard to gauge exactly how bad things really are. I have noticed cognitive changes though like forgetfulness.

I have to say all this is much more bearable not being under the same roof. I feel much more detached from the chaos. All the best.
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Old 04-30-2022, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Noelaus3 View Post
Given that you are separated it seems the house of cards is already falling.

Your story is very similar to mine. We have been separated a year but he lives by himself. Recently I found out via the police his drivers license was suspended and he was picked up for driving suspended but he continues to drive around anyway. He has no idea I know. I don’t feel like I know him anymore. Gradually health stuff is happening too like blood pressure problems and gastrointestinal problems despite keeping himself reasonably fit. Maybe there is other things he’s not telling me. Somehow he seems to maintain the work he has but then again if he lost a job he probably wouldn’t tell me anyway! Lying goes a long with the territory unfortunately so it’s hard to gauge exactly how bad things really are. I have noticed cognitive changes though like forgetfulness.

I have to say all this is much more bearable not being under the same roof. I feel much more detached from the chaos. All the best.
Welcome, Noelaus, I noticed this is your first post so wanted to say hello and welcome you.

Glad to have you join us.

Last edited by PeacefulWater12; 04-30-2022 at 02:58 AM. Reason: missed word out
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Old 04-30-2022, 05:54 AM
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Functional alcoholism is a stage, and not a type. I was one for many years.

As Dee and others mentioned, when the negative progression comes it is often unexpected by the drinker and happens fast.

I think home and loved ones get the early brunt as they are more easily hidden from public life. Work performance is often the last place it shows up as drinker works hard to keep up myth of being functional—at least I did.

But I was drinking more at home on weekends, being increasingly mean / cold to spouse, isolating from friends, and taking more short cuts to manage my work and mostly ignoring necessary home projects, hobbies, and dreams.

Physically I finally began to black out at times, got serious intestinal issues, and just felt like crap all the time and only a drink would make me feel “better” as I was in a kind of withdrawal most days. My work performance began eroding, and that finally got my attention and my spouse’s ultimatum to quit or divorce sealed the deal and I quit.

I have had some relapses over the years since then (nearly ten years total I guess) but I have improved my sobriety plan and work hard on recovery. I am happily sober now and would not go back to how it was for anything. Still married, finished up my career on a good note and retired June of last year.

If I had kept drinking I believe first I would have died as my physical condition got worse suddenly and quickly, I would have been fired, and I would be divorced. I was rapidly leaving functional stage when I quit, you see. . .

So my take is that the whole family and their drinking culture are in denial of what comes next for most of them. My family was a drinking family too and my mom and dad (divorced when I was 3 weeks old) both serious alcoholics.

My mom died a drinker and chain smoker, and my brother and I were raised in a toxic alcoholic home by my mom who progressed in her own alcoholism and passed on many negative issues to my brother and I. So whatever else you choose to do, don’t have kids with an active alcoholic.

Alcohol is a real poison, so it erodes brain function, destroys organs in your body, and the idea that it doesn’t impair your ability to make rational decisions and look after kids responsibly is such a bogus lie it makes me nauseas. “Wine moms” is a crock and a affluent whitewash of our society accepting behavior which can really ruin the lives of the children involved if the drinking becomes problematic. My mom started with a cocktail and glass of wine too—in the beginning.

I think you were very wise to bring this issue up as you consider your future family and possibly having children enter into the mix, and you are being gaslit by him and family, as they are defensive and need to protect their drinking culture at nearly any cost. If I were you, I would cut my losses and divorce. If he sees the light and quits, you can revisit getting together, but with caveat of at least 1-2 years of real recovery, and not just stopping drinking for a few weeks or months.

Take care and keep posting and reading. Lots of stories to learn from here—
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Old 04-30-2022, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Free2bme888 View Post
Hi and welcome.

Being on both sides of the fence, yes, it gets worse, no we aren’t supposed to drink poison, and his addiction is choosing booze over you. It won’t change unless he wants to, and he clearly believes his life is working for him.

if you want children, do you want them with an active alcoholic ?

We aren’t well active in our addiction, we are selfish and have an immediate reward goal at ALL costs.

People who are addicted don’t drink less on the timeline.

Non addicts don’t pick drugs over the love of their life.

Addicts can only recover with complete abstinence when and IF, THEY want to. No sooner .

hugs
Thank you for the kind words and honesty. Yes, the topic of children is probably one of the most concerning. When I think about the additional stressors, lack of sleep, and many responsibilities that come with bringing a new family member - I worry that his 'guarantee' that he would not drink this way when kids are around is not something he'd even be able to control, no matter how well-intentioned. I'm not willing to take that risk when it comes to pregnancy and children.

When I told him my concerns about his habits and how that would affect parenting, he switched over to thinking weed was the lesser of the evils. He wanted to know things like: would you be upset if a kid walked in or saw me smoking weed one day unexpectedly? If we had a party with other adult friends and kids weren't at the house, would you be willing to make weed brownies or is that something you'd be opposed to?

What odd questions to decide whether or not you'd want to have children with your spouse? A therapist told me that shows how highly he puts this as a must-have priority in his life, and when I expressed that to him, he said that was ridiculous...

I guess I'm answering my own questions here, but just thinking out loud. Thanks again for your support.
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Old 04-30-2022, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by PeacefulWater12 View Post
Welcome, Noelaus, I noticed this is your first post so wanted to say hello and welcome you.

Glad to have you join us.
Thank you both for your words and shared experiences. In regards to living in separate homes now, yes - the peace I feel is overwhelming, even when I am sad that it has come to this. To not have to tiptoe around, check the recycling to see how much has been drank, and wonder if/when someone will be in a foul mood and direct it at me is quite a weight lifted...

With that said, as I explore my new city, I can't help but think of all the great restaurants I'd love for him to try with me, to join the recreational sports league with me, the interesting new hikes with the dogs, and how I wish we were experiencing this together.

As I'm sure is common, it's so challenging because "it wasn't always like this" (how many times has that been said?!) We've had incredible trips, adventures, day-to-day living, etc. but the alcohol was always the beast that sat in the back of the room waiting for its next opportunity to show it's ugly head.
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Old 04-30-2022, 06:25 AM
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Co dependency is kind of an emotional problem like drinking.

We can miss it, even though we KNOW it’s bad for us.

Listen to you in the ‘now’…… “Not walking on eggshells” “ the peace I feel is overwhelming”.

Guilt is feeling remorse and regret about the past. Anxiety happens when we worry about pretend desired future events happening or not happening.

Stick in the ‘now’, friend.


Take a walk.
Cry.
cut your toenails.
Buy new makeup.
Pet a pet if you have one.
Purchase a piece of art.
Name five things you are grateful for.


Missing him is a habit. You are missing a man that you haven’t experienced since you were 21.
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Old 04-30-2022, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye13 View Post
Functional alcoholism is a stage, and not a type. I was one for many years.

As Dee and others mentioned, when the negative progression comes it is often unexpected by the drinker and happens fast.

I think home and loved ones get the early brunt as they are more easily hidden from public life. Work performance is often the last place it shows up as drinker works hard to keep up myth of being functional—at least I did.

But I was drinking more at home on weekends, being increasingly mean / cold to spouse, isolating from friends, and taking more short cuts to manage my work and mostly ignoring necessary home projects, hobbies, and dreams.

Physically I finally began to black out at times, got serious intestinal issues, and just felt like crap all the time and only a drink would make me feel “better” as I was in a kind of withdrawal most days. My work performance began eroding, and that finally got my attention and my spouse’s ultimatum to quit or divorce sealed the deal and I quit.

I have had some relapses over the years since then (nearly ten years total I guess) but I have improved my sobriety plan and work hard on recovery. I am happily sober now and would not go back to how it was for anything. Still married, finished up my career on a good note and retired June of last year.

If I had kept drinking I believe first I would have died as my physical condition got worse suddenly and quickly, I would have been fired, and I would be divorced. I was rapidly leaving functional stage when I quit, you see. . .

So my take is that the whole family and their drinking culture are in denial of what comes next for most of them. My family was a drinking family too and my mom and dad (divorced when I was 3 weeks old) both serious alcoholics.

My mom died a drinker and chain smoker, and my brother and I were raised in a toxic alcoholic home by my mom who progressed in her own alcoholism and passed on many negative issues to my brother and I. So whatever else you choose to do, don’t have kids with an active alcoholic.

Alcohol is a real poison, so it erodes brain function, destroys organs in your body, and the idea that it doesn’t impair your ability to make rational decisions and look after kids responsibly is such a bogus lie it makes me nauseas. “Wine moms” is a crock and a affluent whitewash of our society accepting behavior which can really ruin the lives of the children involved if the drinking becomes problematic. My mom started with a cocktail and glass of wine too—in the beginning.

I think you were very wise to bring this issue up as you consider your future family and possibly having children enter into the mix, and you are being gaslit by him and family, as they are defensive and need to protect their drinking culture at nearly any cost. If I were you, I would cut my losses and divorce. If he sees the light and quits, you can revisit getting together, but with caveat of at least 1-2 years of real recovery, and not just stopping drinking for a few weeks or months.

Take care and keep posting and reading. Lots of stories to learn from here—
Hi Hawkeye - Thank you for sharing your very honest and personal experience. The family portion of this is perhaps one of the hardest parts because I absolutely adore my in-laws. They are wonderful people, generous, funny, and excellent grandparents to the other kids in the family.

However... things got exponentially worse when we started spending more time with them. We moved last year to the same state as them to purchase our family/forever home, and with the way the housing market is, we planned to stay in their home as a temporary solution to be able to jump on a purchase as soon as it was available rather than start a new lease, etc. etc. I expected 6-8 weeks.

Their beautiful home was like a vacation until I realized that's how they live life - like a vacation. All day weekend drinking. Lunch beers. Dinner wines. Cocktail hours after work that stretch til 11 PM. It wasn't a safe or healthy environment for me, so I told my spouse I'd like to do a short-term rental to "re-set" and remove both he and I from an environment where we weren't thriving individually or as a couple. We needed our own space again and could continue to search for homes, but three months was more than enough of sharing a home as an adult in my 30s.

He opted to stay with his folks while I did the research on the rental... thus, the separation. In the end, it was the right and healthy choice for me and he is still there nearly a year later, drinking daily and rarely leaving the house. They live in a rural area and he works 100% remote, so there isn't much reason to leave. But I can't wrap my head around why someone would choose to live with their parents when their spouse is waiting on the other side wanting to help. I guess that's the alcoholism and the culture they've created.

If it was almost any other issue, I could talk with his mom about it. We are very close.. but this one feels off-limits because if it's an "attack" on his lifestyle, it's an attack on hers, too. I brought up my concerns with his drinking when we first showed up there in an honest conversation, and she acknowledged that it sounded bad, and then continued to bring out the wine glasses every night.
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Old 04-30-2022, 06:28 AM
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Old 04-30-2022, 07:02 AM
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It takes some strength to be honest with yourself and know yourself as a person to do what is best for you. That you feel peace when you are away from the situation is telling -- you are doing what is best for you.

It's painful to contemplate ending a relationship as well as giving up with what we know and are comfortable for an unknown future. Change can be uncomfortable and scary, which is counterintuitive, considering that our lives are constantly changing. I know that trying to hold onto things to avoid change has caused me great pain. When I learnt to accept change it was much easier to let go of the things that caused me pain and to find the joys and blessings in each moment.

Your husband seems to be accepting of his and his family's lifestyle. What you've said is true: you are the one with the problem, you have a problem with his drinking. He's fine with it. What I've learnt from my time on this forum is that when in a relationship with someone, it's impossible to accept them for only part of who they are. If they are an alcoholic / addict, then you have to accept that part of them also. I know that for me, I can't be in any relationship, romantic or even platonic, with an active alcoholic / addict. I simply can't tolerate it, it places risk on my own sobriety and recovery. And I find any substance with which a person alters their consciousness problematic, so I include weed or any other "medicinal" in that category.

It sounds like you are on a path that is most honoring what you need. This is a good thing, no matter how hard it feels right now.
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Old 04-30-2022, 11:54 AM
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tacomas....welcome to this forum!

You have received such candid and wise posts from the other posters who have walked in your same shoes.

At one time, I worked in a woman's hospital. Of course, we had lots and lots of deliveries. We always had to have a staff of security officers to deal with the unruly and drunk boyfriends and husbands who showed up to the deliveries. Even sadder were the patients, who went through their deliveries with no partner at their side-----because the father was too drunk to even get to the hospital. I held many of a patient while she cried the tears.

When I talked with many of these patients----the most frequent story that I heard from them was this one-----"He promised me that when the baby came that he would stop drinking---but, he has gotten much worse!".

It is not a gift to give a child an active drinker as a father.
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Old 04-30-2022, 08:26 PM
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Yes, the truth is children won't stop an alcoholic. What actually happens is the non-drinker ends up raising the children alone - the drinker becomes another dependant in the scenario.

It's not "happy hour" it's not - is it ok if our future children see weed only (really??) it's just alcoholism/addiction. And above everything addiction is self centered. He didn't stop to ask how it might affect children, he stopped to ask to make sure no one would try to stop him.

I'm glad you found the forum tacomas.
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Old 05-01-2022, 10:31 AM
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My Dad was very functional until he wasn't. There was a clue: Mom broke her leg, and one evening I called to see how things were going, and it was obvious Dad was drunk.

Then the awful thing happened: Dad was driving and involved in an accident in which someone died. Dad was 76 at the time. He did end up convicted of DUI manslaughter. He was very, *very* lucky the judge only sentenced him to two years, owing to his age and having no previous record.

It's interesting your husband moved in with his family. I can only guess that leaves more money for booze.
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Old 05-01-2022, 05:09 PM
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Hello, Tacomas!
I’m so glad that you’re here, and so sorry for the situation that brings you.

You aren’t crazy or over-reacting.

Alcoholism can begin and remain functional for a very long time. But eventually the disease progresses. Sometimes very dramatically.

Your husband sounds a great deal like my ex. He was successful and physically fit. He was bright, curious, ambitious, and funny. He was well-read and well-paid and well-loved.

Yet in his early thirties my ex’s occasional, fun-fillled drinking developed into a chronic and terrible substance use disorder. Work, exercise, and social engagements continued for a while. His friends and co-workers were the last to know.

But I saw the whole, slow-motion car wreck. Until I decided it was better for me to look/walk away.

In my case, my mental health improved as I pursed my own recovery. My ex husband died alone, surrounded by empty bottles, due to alcohol-induced diabetic ketoacidosis at the age of 42. At that point he was jobless, homeless, divorced, and entirely despondent.

Addiction is misery if left untreated.
Save yourself.

Much love,
TC
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Old 05-03-2022, 12:56 PM
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Not a fan of 'high functioning' alcoholics or addicts. I've seen them in the work place and in the family and usually takes enabling of some kind especially in the workplace. Co workers and management will ignore until someone else's drinking or drugging affects them directly. Or alot of coworkers drink alot too. Had one job where the drunk went over decade undisturbed until they accidents and got caught lying. But the same workplace had management that would have liquid lunches. It's even worse in family because parents in particular don't want to admit their child has issues so there is a lot of denial and if they drink alot of course similar behavior will ignored or considered normal

But as noted many also put on an act and know who and where to ham it up. Some become not only excellent actors but morph into grifters because eventually they will start needing a lot of favors or know they are very close to being outed.

You have a better more realistic picture of things and the individual. Work off of that. Because until he wants to change on his own he wont.

Stay Safe.

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Old 05-04-2022, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by thequest View Post
Co workers and management will ignore until someone else's drinking or drugging affects them directly. Or alot of coworkers drink a lot too...if they drink a lot of course similar behavior will ignored or considered normal
I was asked to come back to a workplace I had quit a couple years before. It was flattering and I could have used the money, but I did have issues with the culture. Manager and staff spent many nights drinking together, even after one employee lost her license for *years* for repeated OUIs. The manager's kid was a train wreck, too - and not in a 'lots of office gossip' way but in 'stuff that made the TV news for the death of a child and trial that ensued.' Manager had refused to fire (or otherwise deal with) an assistant manager who had an obvious conflict of interest in running a business that competed with the store, but held all the others in our department accountable. I had suspected she was getting kickbacks from the assistant manager's side hustle, but on reading thequest's post, perhaps they were drinking buddies, or booze simply caused the store manager to make poor decisions.
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Old 05-04-2022, 06:14 PM
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You have found a great forum here tacomas, and like others, I am sorry for what brings you, but grateful to you for sharing your story.
My son is an alcoholic...he is 30 years old, and has cut me out of his life because I dared to shine a light on his alcoholism.
I haven't seen him or spoken with him in almost 4 years now. It's heartbreaking. There are family members who think he is doing just fine because he has a good career and he actually just purchased his first home. As if...that's all it takes. His family and personal relationships were the first to go, and I have read here over and over that this happens often. The job is the one thing they excel at until of course, they can no longer. I pray that my son will find a bottom that will cause no harm to himself or anyone else.
I have learned that it is best for me to not be involved in his life right now. Truth is...I don't even know this man.
I hope you find the answers you look for...this is a terrible disease and it completely changes people we know and love until we no longer know them.
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