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Had a talk with AH; interesting

Old 08-03-2012, 07:24 AM
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Had a talk with AH; interesting

I copied and pasted from my journal, FYI:


We had a 3 hour long conversation and some went well, some went badly. He said he felt so much better because we were talking but I felt crappy at times because he over exaggerates things and gets out of control. There was one point in the conversation where I told him that his drinking and lying about it made me feel like I was being cheated on. I told him that it appeared that alcohol came before his family and that it was more important to him so that feels like someone cheating on you because alcohol has replaced you in importance. So, he starts saying stuff like, "So, now I'm an adulterer? Great, that's the unpardonable sin. Might as well serve me with the divorce papers." UGH! I could say this word many times throughout our conversation.

We talked about everything from his drinking, my codependency, s*x(or lack thereof), the church, Green Peace, politics, our son, etc. I stayed with the conversation because I felt it was opening the lines of communication and I tried to not get resentful that it took ME again saying, "We have to talk, " to get him to open up. I guess I sometimes wished he would just talk to me because he wants to resolve things instead of waiting for me.

I have agreed to marriage counseling. He has agreed to stop drinking, but will not attend AA. At least he actually didn't deny the drinking. There was a lot of me saying, "Right there. Do you see what we did there? We went in a circle of blaming each other. That has to stop." Other times I'd stop him and say, "See, this is another problem with communication. You leave the room because you feel I hate your opinion but I feel hurt because you leave the room after I express my opinion." He tried to tell me how I feel sooo many times that it was ridiculous, creating scenarios that never existed in my own mind. He was convinced I was having an affair since he wasn't getting any and he told me that men equate s*x with love and that if a guy isn't getting any then that must mean his wife doesn't love him anymore. Again, UGH!

All in all, I guess it was good but we have a long way to go. He will still rent cars while traveling and he keeps insisting he must do it to keep his job and wouldn't see it any other way. He still disagrees with the laws and finds that they are meant to punish people. Maybe I just need to accept the unacceptable behavior because it's obvious we don't see eye to eye on what's right vs what's wrong when it comes to this stuff. Who knows? I just have to take it one day at a time.

He also told me that every time we have s*x he thinks I'm going to report him as a rapist to the police since I'm a former rape victim. Gee, that's comforting so when he asked if we could have s*x last night, I told him no. I mean, who wants to have sex with someone who thinks you're going to report him as a rapist. UGH. He also told me that if I ever get a job outside of the home that our marriage will be over. He was dead serious and he said that I'd probably meet someone and fall in love and leave him. That's sad, you know. Oh, there was so much more and I'm waffling between being angry and just plain depressed.
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:30 AM
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Maybe I just need to accept the unacceptable behavior
Really???

Been there, done that, don't recommend it. I didn't start to get better until I saw unacceptable behavior as unacceptable behavior.

Your friend,
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:37 AM
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He also told me that if I ever get a job outside of the home that our marriage will be over. He was dead serious
Of course you are intelligent enough to realize this is the hallmark of an abuser, right? Insecurity and control. Big FAT waving scarlet RED FLAG.
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
I'm waffling between being angry and just plain depressed.
Why are you angry?
Were you expecting a different outcome?
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:52 AM
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If you are willing to put up with unacceptable behavior, then it isn't unacceptable. I agree with TJP about the HUGE red flag regarding you ever working outside of the home. He has NO right to say that. I don't think it has anything to do with you meeting someone else; I think he's afraid you will become financially independent and that is the hold he thinks he has over you now.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Pelican View Post
Why are you angry?
Were you expecting a different outcome?
LOL, no I'm angry at myself for letting the conversation get that deep. It's amazing how he felt so much better after we talked and then couldn't understand why I didn't feel any better. He was shocked that I wasn't in the mood to connect with him. DUH. Honestly, the screws are so loose that I wonder if there are empty holes there. Normal men do not sit there and tell their wives that she's going to meet a great guy at work one day and then leave the current marriage. I sat there and pointed out how he keeps throwing our marriage under the bus and he agreed but kept doing it. Stupid me for letting the talking go on and on and on....
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:06 AM
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Its been my experience marriage counseling cannot work until hes had some intense thereapy and remained sober for a long period of time. Asking you both to work on marriage while all he has done is promisie to stop drinking and already say "no AA" is a red flag. He has to have a willingness to do whatever it takes and be committed to his sobriety.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:07 AM
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Honestly lizatola, I see you trying to have these conversations, and then paying good money for a marriage counselor, trying to get this person to change so you can save a sick relationship with a very sick and dysfunctional person. How are you feeling? Angry and depressed. Not healthy. Not good for you and the longer you keep yourself mired in it, the angrier and more depressed you are going to become. His concession to stop drinking is not going to last long. The fact that he doesn't want to go to AA is an indication that he doesn't think he has a problem and therefore doesn't think he needs to do anything to change. He's not willing to look at himself. Can you see how the conversation you had was all about blaming and threatening you?
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by tjp613 View Post
Of course you are intelligent enough to realize this is the hallmark of an abuser, right? Insecurity and control. Big FAT waving scarlet RED FLAG.
Yep. He has said this exact same thing before so at least I can say he's being consistent. I haven't heard the rapist stuff yet, that was new. I see it as him manipulating me into feeling sorry for him or into NOT giving him s*x so that he can blame me for his s*xless marriage. It's easy to figure out.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
Yep. He has said this exact same thing before so at least I can say he's being consistent. I haven't heard the rapist stuff yet, that was new. I see it as him manipulating me into feeling sorry for him or into NOT giving him s*x so that he can blame me for his s*xless marriage. It's easy to figure out.
They also use it to blame you when they cheat on you.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:13 AM
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It's amazing how he felt so much better after we talked and then couldn't understand why I didn't feel any better. He was shocked that I wasn't in the mood to connect with him.
ok this makes me feel like throwing up.

Thankfully, I have given up these infuriating merry go round conversations that turn me into an emotional contortionist.

AH always felt better after and I felt worse. So sick.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:19 AM
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Sounds like the typical alcoholic circle jerk conversation.

How bout this,

Him, it scares me because things have been so tentative between us that you might find someone else, I see you are unhappy and I want this to work.

You, I am committed to this relationship, but there are just somethings that I can't have in my life anymore. But I do love you and want the best for both of us.

Ya know, expression of real feelings, not this big smoke screen, where the feelings are lost.

My x used to want to get together, ME well I can't til Sunday, I have this, this this this on these days, HIM Oh I can't Sunday, I have things to do too. Instead of have xyz on Sunday, how bout Monday. Just end of conversation.

Just ridiculous and hurtful words.

Liz, it just sounds like you AH needs so badly to do some kind of self examination, you are moving leaps and bounds ahead of him. My ex used to keep me in it by frustrating me, or not letting me express myself, I was literally upset by every conversation. It sucks.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:31 AM
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Liz if you go back to the beginning and read all of your threads you will see that nothing new was discussed and the outcome remains exactly the same. All you did was have a conversation-a verbal exchange. The exchange was you telling him how you felt about your marriage and family life and he told you he wouldn't drink again, he would still drive cars when he was out of town etc. Basically what he 'won't' do. And in the final analysis you had the same conversation about the same things as before with the same outcome. No wonder you don't feel better.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:33 AM
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AH always felt better after and I felt worse. So sick.

OMG the truth of this is shocking transform.

So very sick.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:42 AM
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Liz,
The whole comment about rape really bothered me too. It shows that he is willing to exploit you emotionally to suit his needs. THe fact that he then wanted to have sex shows he is also willing to exploit you physically.

If you think you need to go to marriage counseling in order to have your feelings about all of this validated...before you can give yourself permission to take care of your needs...then I guess that's what you should do but maybe individual counseling would be more appropriate? Just a thought.

What are you getting out of the relationship at this point?
What is your son learning about marriage and adult relationships?

You have choices.
Have you ever consulted with an attorney to learn what your options are?
Knowledge is power.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:45 AM
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He also told me that every time we have s*x he thinks I'm going to report him as a rapist to the police since I'm a former rape victim.
Jesus Christ.

This makes my skin crawl. I am also a fellow rape survivor, and if anyone said this to me, to try and manipulate my shame and heartbreak about being raped and all the stigma that it put in my lap into getting himself laid? I don't even know what I would do. It wouldn't be pretty.

Seriously, this scares me.

Have you ever read "The Gift of Fear"?
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:46 AM
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I just want to add...

For a LONG TIME, I tried to write the story my marraiges' demise in my own head before I took action. For some reason, I felt like I had to PROVE to myself, my exah, and the world that the failure of our relationship was HIS fault...and not mine. Subconsciously, I think I wanted to be able to say 'see...see how hard I tried...see how much of myself I gave up and compromised?...yep...it's all HIS fault...".

The thing is...it doesn't matter WHY the relationship is failing.
When it becomes harmful to you and your child, you don't need his permission or anyone's permission (including a marriage counselor) to walk away. I wish I had realized this sooner.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:46 AM
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The rape comment PLUS telling you you CANNOT (who the f does he think he is?!) work outside the home is outrageous and should be unacceptable as both are controlling, manipulative and abusive.

I seriously cannot wrap my mind around people accepting to live under these conditions.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:47 AM
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I see a big red flag in the needing to rent cars while on work trips.

I keep thinking about the lack of sex in your marriage, and I wonder...

does he need the car simply to go get alcohol or is it for something else he can pay for?

If he brings home some STD and gives it to you...will that be YOUR rock bottom?
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:52 AM
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What I see here is the dance between two deeply entrenched co-dependents clinging intensely to each other in the "co-dependence' dance---that goes on into perpetuity.

This is not uncommon---I have seen it sooo many times. Both partners gripe and complain and blame each other endlessly until it is practically a mantra. But, when it comes right down to it-- you couldn't seperate them from each other with power tools.

The only times that I have seen a break in the dance/pattern is when there is literally a life-altering occurance. Like death, total financial collapse, major serious health failure (mental or physical), fatal domestic violence,.....

Th other time I have seen it change is when one of the persons saw the need and committed completely to a recovery program. I have to say--sadly--that I have seen the former much more often than the latter.

I happen to work in a profession that allows me to see these kind of situations more often than many people do---But, I have also seen it personally.

AGAIN---Change happens when the pain of remaining the same becomes greater than the pain of changing.

When people are in their zone of comfort, they stay there.

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