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Had a talk with AH; interesting

Old 08-05-2012, 09:21 AM
  # 81 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by GettingBy View Post
Anger isnt a bad thing lizatola. Anger to me usually signifies that one of my boundaries is being violated. For me that means I need to focus on what I can do to fix the situation...

What I have learned through al-anon and here is that sitting around waiting for the offender to play nice has never gotten me anywhere.

How's your plan coming? You said you'd rather live in a car than with his drinking... What are YOU doing to put yourself in a more serene place?
Well, today I am researching new cars. I plan on trading in my Lexus for a smaller SUV and getting his name off the car(old or new, if I buy). He's leaving tonight for a trip and I will be making copies of all our important documents while he's gone. Birth certs, auto titles, loan stuff, financial documents, etc. Also, I am planning on calling a lawyer tomorrow, as well. Oh, and maybe I'll make that counseling appointment since I promised I would do that for 'US'.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:36 AM
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Liz, I can feel that it is very painful for us on the board to watch someone caught up in the cycle of abuse, as you are, and not be able to effectively help the victim out of the abusive situation. Actually 2 victims---your son is subjected to this home without a voice.

As I posted here before, I have come to see that your greatest fear is of loosing your husband. As much as you describe your dislike of his behaviors, the fear of seperating from him is even greater than the fear of staying. This fear is at the heart of all of us co-dependents. You are both tethered very tightly to each other in this dance.

I am not under any illusion that you are going to seperate from him or to make YOURSELF a focus of treatment. You are still more comfortable with him than the possibility of being without him.

My hope for you right now, is that when a force from the universe that you have no control over places you in so much pain that you have no other option---you will remember some of the ESH that has been lovingly offered to you---and that you will know where to go for help.

I strongly suggest to you that while you are still in your zone of comfort--to focus on how to secure your financial future for when you are alone with your child to care for.
The day will come when he can no longer provide for your security. I am certain that there are countless others who have faced this (on this board), including myself.

Liz, are you comfortable with thinking about this practical reality? I know it IS scarey. Very scarey.

The hope of assisting you in some way is the only reason that I continue to post to you.

dandylion.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
Well, today I am researching new cars. I plan on trading in my Lexus for a smaller SUV and getting his name off the car(old or new, if I buy). He's leaving tonight for a trip and I will be making copies of all our important documents while he's gone. Birth certs, auto titles, loan stuff, financial documents, etc. Also, I am planning on calling a lawyer tomorrow, as well.


One thing...take the original birth certificate for both you and your son and put them in a safety deposit box. You will need the originals. Leave him the copies, if you feel you must, of your son's BC, but not of your own.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:39 AM
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There you go!! You're starting exactly where I did last April. First thing I had to do was trade in the joint car and get something with only my name on it. Be careful b/c you will need your AH's signature on the title to sell the one you have now. I didn't have any discussion with my AH about the car - until I put the title under his nose and said, "Please sign this. I am trading in the SUV for a smaller more fuel efficient wagon." He had a few beers in him so he didn't ask any questions. It may have been sneaky on my part - but I did what I had to to get my plan in place.

I did not divulge any of my plan to my AH. Nothing about the car, my new job, the house I was renting. None of it. It wasn't up for discussion with him and I didn't want him accusing me later on of trying to manipulate/blackmail him into sobriety... and I obviously didn't want him trying to get in my way!!!
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by coffeeclouds View Post
My opinion is that porn in a house with kids is a problem.

I also wished my AH would die. He has health problems that drinking should have killed him. Then he didn't die.
I am not sure that I want to work on the relationship anymore. Pretty wrung out after so many years.
I felt so bad I had those thoughts, I felt like I should be praying for his everlasting soul instead of wishing him physical harm. But just thought that if he would just disappear I wouldn't have to worry for my kids safety, wouldn't have to put up with his nightmare behavior, etc. And his health is so bad. I can't believe his body still functions with what he has done to it.

I understand that wrung out feeling. I often said that I had my account withdrawn from over and over and over again for 18 years, with no deposits, ever. You can't give anymore when your tank is empty!
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
Liz, I can feel that it is very painful for us on the board to watch someone caught up in the cycle of abuse, as you are, and not be able to effectively help the victim out of the abusive situation. Actually 2 victims---your son is subjected to this home without a voice.

As I posted here before, I have come to see that your greatest fear is of loosing your husband. As much as you describe your dislike of his behaviors, the fear of seperating from him is even greater than the fear of staying. This fear is at the heart of all of us co-dependents. You are both tethered very tightly to each other in this dance.

I am not under any illusion that you are going to seperate from him or to make YOURSELF a focus of treatment. You are still more comfortable with him than the possibility of being without him.

My hope for you right now, is that when a force from the universe that you have no control over places you in so much pain that you have no other option---you will remember some of the ESH that has been lovingly offered to you---and that you will know where to go for help.

I strongly suggest to you that while you are still in your zone of comfort--to focus on how to secure your financial future for when you are alone with your child to care for.
The day will come when he can no longer provide for your security. I am certain that there are countless others who have faced this (on this board), including myself.

Liz, are you comfortable with thinking about this practical reality? I know it IS scarey. Very scarey.

The hope of assisting you in some way is the only reason that I continue to post to you.

dandylion.
Thank you for your honesty and thank you for caring enough to share. You are right, of course. I'm a glutton for punishment at this point and I'm choosing to stay in this position. I really do appreciate all the love I feel here and I know you guys must be terribly frustrated with me.

My ah told me the other night that I could find a new husband in a week. He said, "You're hot and fit and gentle and sweet, and you don't even know it. I see men look at you and I know they want what I have." He followed it up with more and I sat there minimizing what he said. In my own mind I pointed out to myself that it's easy to find a man, but finding a REAL trustworthy loving man may take a LONG time. And, as far as I can tell, I'm not exactly going to be healthy for a new relationship any time soon.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:32 PM
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Oh brother. Of course he thinks it's all about you finding another man. It couldn't possibly be about the fact that he is a narcissistic azzhole who psychologically abuses you and has no consideration at all for your feelings. The last thing you need is another man.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
and I know you guys must be terribly frustrated with me.
NEVER worry about this, we are all responsible for our own feelings, joy/anger/frustration/whatever. IF any of us are frustrate that is due to our own shortcomings and is nothing to do with you. please keep posting.

my best strides in finding joy in my life, came as a result of getting therapy for myself - I went to tackle my social anxiety, but ended up talking through many other things.

I have never been more content or happy than I am right now, evr in my whole life, and I heartily wish that for you.
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:10 PM
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Liz, we are all here for you and each other. Never feel guilty about what you post here even if it is just to vent. For me this forum is sanctuary. I hope it will be for you as well.

Your friend,
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:42 PM
  # 90 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by m1k3 View Post
Liz, we are all here for you and each other. Never feel guilty about what you post here even if it is just to vent. For me this forum is sanctuary. I hope it will be for you as well.

Your friend,
Thanks, Mike. I'm just feeling like I post the same dang things and I refuse to take action. I know it's got to be irritating, LOL. I'm having a crappy day today, too, so that doesn't help.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:00 PM
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Oh, gosh! You think you're irritating? I think you've forgotten your audience here: Friends and family of alcoholics.

You go ahead and take as long as you need. I'm certainly not in any rush at the moment, either.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by GettingBy View Post


There you go!! You're starting exactly where I did last April. First thing I had to do was trade in the joint car and get something with only my name on it. Be careful b/c you will need your AH's signature on the title to sell the one you have now. I didn't have any discussion with my AH about the car - until I put the title under his nose and said, "Please sign this. I am trading in the SUV for a smaller more fuel efficient wagon." He had a few beers in him so he didn't ask any questions. It may have been sneaky on my part - but I did what I had to to get my plan in place.

I did not divulge any of my plan to my AH. Nothing about the car, my new job, the house I was renting. None of it. It wasn't up for discussion with him and I didn't want him accusing me later on of trying to manipulate/blackmail him into sobriety... and I obviously didn't want him trying to get in my way!!!

Smart woman! I've begun to do some of these things too. New lease, changed the name on the bills, etc.
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:15 PM
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I HAVE A PROBLEM... really hit me. My ASon said something to that affect when we saw him 2 weeks into rehab at a 'family meeting'. "my problem"... Got me thinking and understanding his alcoholism problem. The 'real son' is awesome. I am not a spouse, rather a mom so I will always love my son and can't get to the point a spouse can, I don't think. I am sad, but things make me 'think' hard and long about what I have done for our son and how I want to live the rest of my life however long or however short it may be.
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:55 PM
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Lizatola-

I can only speak for me, but it took me five years of the alcoholic drinking, and him having an affair before I finally started to take care of myself. It takes what it takes and I was not ready one moment prior to when I was ready.

I worry for you, not because of what you posted about with change, but because so much of the energy in your life at the moment seems to be outwardly focused on him and not you. This just hits close to home for me. I thought that was what being in a relationship was about because that is what I had learned. I am learning that self-care is not selfish. What are you doing for your own self-care?

Finally anger also really helped me, and it helped to start the healing process.

I am glad you are here and sharing.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by LifeRecovery View Post
Lizatola-

I can only speak for me, but it took me five years of the alcoholic drinking, and him having an affair before I finally started to take care of myself. It takes what it takes and I was not ready one moment prior to when I was ready.

I worry for you, not because of what you posted about with change, but because so much of the energy in your life at the moment seems to be outwardly focused on him and not you. This just hits close to home for me. I thought that was what being in a relationship was about because that is what I had learned. I am learning that self-care is not selfish. What are you doing for your own self-care?

Finally anger also really helped me, and it helped to start the healing process.

I am glad you are here and sharing.
Thank you! Actually, I am attending 2 Al Anon meetings a week, working with a therapist and my sponsor, I play tennis weekly and work out, I'm getting busy putting lesson plans together for my son and his new school year, and I'm busy planning my fall hiking routine. I gotta back into yoga, though. Funny thing is: AH made a comment about how I was taking care of myself more and that's why he thought I was having an affair!
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:18 PM
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I am glad to hear that. It makes my system feel more settled for you.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:17 PM
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This man scares me.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:21 AM
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Leaving a relationship in which we lower our standard of living financially is very difficult. We do lose a lot, I know, I did it.
It also hurts to pull our head out of the sand. I had to do that too. Ouch.

Porn is a very debated argument. For me, I decided that my viewpoint is that it objectifies a person with a heart, objectifies a stranger. I also am very well aware of how it belittles women and keeps them in a mind-set in which they believe the best they have to offer the world to make money is essentially be a prostitute.

Sometimes, we find that we also are objectified in a legitimate marriage. That realization can hurt too. We of course want to believe that we are loved because of our heart and soul, and then we find that while that may be true, it may also be true that we are loved because of our innocence, our naiviete, our gullible nature, and how easily we are manipulated.
That doesn't mean that we aren't loved for our good traits too...we are...such as a good nature, giving, fair, honest. It may mean though that we are also loved in a somewhat sinister way...as our best traits can be used against us.
Pulling my head out of the sand was painful. It meant accepting that I was somewhat objectified. I was loved for good traits, and I loved for good traits, but in the nature of love, there is a certain element of selfishness and we may make deals with the devil. This area can be difficult to pinpoint exactly where the lines of love have crossed into the lines of selfishness.
All I can say with surety in healthy marriages is that real love isn't painful, that people respect each other along with being turned on by their physical bodies, that fairness prevails, that transparency of heart is obvious, that motives are clear, that manipulation is non-existant, that equality is understood, and that physical intimacy is not embarrassing when we look our partner in the eyes, and that that intimacy is a shared expression in which both partners are comfortable and unafraid to be transparent.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by MadeOfGlass View Post
Leaving a relationship in which we lower our standard of living financially is very difficult. We do lose a lot, I know, I did it.
It also hurts to pull our head out of the sand. I had to do that too. Ouch.

Porn is a very debated argument. For me, I decided that my viewpoint is that it objectifies a person with a heart, objectifies a stranger. I also am very well aware of how it belittles women and keeps them in a mind-set in which they believe the best they have to offer the world to make money is essentially be a prostitute.

Sometimes, we find that we also are objectified in a legitimate marriage. That realization can hurt too. We of course want to believe that we are loved because of our heart and soul, and then we find that while that may be true, it may also be true that we are loved because of our innocence, our naiviete, our gullible nature, and how easily we are manipulated.
That doesn't mean that we aren't loved for our good traits too...we are...such as a good nature, giving, fair, honest. It may mean though that we are also loved in a somewhat sinister way...as our best traits can be used against us.
Pulling my head out of the sand was painful. It meant accepting that I was somewhat objectified. I was loved for good traits, and I loved for good traits, but in the nature of love, there is a certain element of selfishness and we may make deals with the devil. This area can be difficult to pinpoint exactly where the lines of love have crossed into the lines of selfishness.
All I can say with surety in healthy marriages is that real love isn't painful, that people respect each other along with being turned on by their physical bodies, that fairness prevails, that transparency of heart is obvious, that motives are clear, that manipulation is non-existant, that equality is understood, and that physical intimacy is not embarrassing when we look our partner in the eyes, and that that intimacy is a shared expression in which both partners are comfortable and unafraid to be transparent.
Madeofglass, I want to print your post and put it on my mirror and tattoo it in my brain. I have always felt that my good naturedness and naivete were used against me, not just by AH but by others. I am actually reading a book lately called, "No More Christian Nice Girl" and it's eye opening as to how long I've lived like a doormat all in the name of being 'nice'. When in reality, I wasn't being nice, I was being afraid of conflict, afraid of turning someone down, afraid of losing a friend, etc. Fear has run my life for so long and your post reminds me that I may be nice but being gullible has been my demise emotionally. Now that I'm waking up and seeing the light, things aren't as rosy as I thought they were.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:04 AM
  # 100 (permalink)  
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When in reality, I wasn't being nice, I was being afraid of conflict, afraid of turning someone down, afraid of losing a friend, etc.
Also afraid of NOT BEING LIKED.

It is good that these realizations are coming to you now. It won't be long until you
finally say ENOUGH.

You are YOUR OWN WOMAN. You are intelligent, good looking, a compassionate
person, a teacher, and much more. You certainly are WORTHY of the respect you
are NOT getting from your AH and from others also.

I suspect as you continue to grow and change you will be picking some new friends
also.

J M H O

Love and hugs,
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