Tuffgirl

Sorry to be a trigger Maggie. Did I mention how much I hate addictions? That it turns people into this? I would often wonder just how badly my stbx must feel inside to need to constantly look for ways to take me down a notch or two. How much I resented feeling like I was in some kind of competition with him. I hate addictions.

Sanity2012

I learned a long time ago, no one can tell you when it's time to leave. You have to feel it inside yourself. One day, you wake up, and realize...no more. You sound like a very smart person from the posts I have read. When that time truly comes, you will know it. Until then we play mind games with ourselves. No one ever wins those! Good Luck!

gerryP

Liz, a little back story.
My mother is boarderline personality-untreated (Noth'n wrong with her...) I would come home from school never knowing what I was going to experience (sometimes she would go weeks being ok) It was stressful on my brother and I to say the least. My Dad stayed with her to protect us as in those days 70's he would have had a hard time getting custody. In fact I don't even think Boarderline was "invented" yet. Anyway, he would hide under the bed with us when she was difficult and looking back she sucked the life out of him. he passed away 3 days after he turned 65 in 1996. Under different circumstances such as the era, he would have been better off had he left her. I know my brother and I would have been better off if we could have lived with him. When my mother went away for a vaca with a friend, it was fun at home. We had friends over, my Dad was more relaxed. our house was a great place to be.

I hope you find your way soon, whatever that way is. But you deserve to be happy. Please don't have a spouse suck the life out of you.

gerryP

There was a point to my post-

Although I knew it was bad and I felt the constant anxiety from the time I can remember, it was MY normal. I went on to marry a nut bar who isn't an alcoholic, because he represented normal to me. I thankfully got out of that before there were children. I drank to calm my ever present anxiety and it wasn't until I hit MY bottom, did I stop drinking and finally got to a place where I can spot crazy from across the block and run. Crazy used to be where I would pull up a chair to. I don't go by labels, but if I were to, I am an alcoholic. I don't drink anymore and never will because I know I can not. I also take anti anxiety medication which has helped me immeasurably. Actually-because I don't pay attention anymore, I haven't had a drink in 7 years tomorrow. I digress, this isn't about me.

lizatola

OMG: it gets worse. Almost comical but I'm fuming right now.

I wanted to clarify to him why he didn't get any last night because he acting like the victim again. I told him that the things he said certainly don't attract me to him and nothing he said made me feel any closer to him.

He retaliated by saying that a Christian woman shouldn't withhold sex from her husband so that gave him the right to look at porn and get himself off, LOL! Honestly, it's insanity. He kept making it all about sex, when really our main issue is the drinking, the denial, the lying, minimizing, etc. Oh yeah, and that's why men have affairs, too, because their wives are frigid. When I tried to explain again that his attitude isn't sex appealing he turned on me and said, "Well, YOU won't let me masturbate." ROFLOL! What the??? I don't think this subject has ever come up in conversation with him EVER before, I could care less if he gets himself off every dang night. Go for it.

So, he also justified his rapist comments by saying it's the truth because I'm a rape victim. He said if he can't talk honestly about how he feels then we shouldn't have anymore conversations. FINE WITH ME! UGH!

dancingnow

I don't make agreements anymore with my RAH. Somehow I have come to understand that these kind or arrangements with an A, even if they have been sober for a while are the quacking and just a set up to get them off the hook next time.

He locks you into something and then always gets to use it against you if you want to make a change.

Agreeing to stop drinking is the easy part. What is he going to do when the going gets rough and stopping drinking is not working?

It's funny but I think my RAH will forever resent my detachment from his recovery because in reality he can't blame me anymore. I don't know if it's possible but it would probably be worse if I let him make an agreement to me that he will not drink. He's in charge of his recovery and I like it that way. If he doesn't do what he needs to do to stay sober, he knows where I stand on this.

This is another tactic I am getting better at stepping away from. It seems that whenever I let this happen to me I feel like crap afterwards, but the times I am able to stop my RAH from shoving his thoughts about my feelings in my face and just let him know calmly how I feel and how he is mistaken in his thoughts I feel soooo much better.

IMO as someone else said, it really doesn't matter why your AH continues communicate with you the way he does. Maybe you could concentrate on how you are going to feel better about - your communication, your choices, your actions and your days.

If a conversation starts to go too far, I now put an end to it. In the past my RAH didn't like it because it didn't allow him to continue his manipulation. Now that he is a little further in his recovery, I think he realizes where he's headed although, I don't think he reflects much on it.

Also, I will never again put myself in a position to be financially dependent on my RAH. Just knowing that I am not, gives me sanity and clarity I need. It took me a while to get back to this point after staying home with my kids for a number of years, but I will never go back to that, now that my kids are older and I can manage working outside the home.

Sorry for such a long post. I see some of my RAH in your post, some when he was still active drinking, some no longer there now that he is sober and some even now still there. I am still not totally clear on who the real person my RAH is and where the "love, honor and cherish" in our marriage went off to. I am giving some time of letting go and let God as long as there is no active alcoholism in our home.

I hope you find your peace and serenity. (((HUGS))) lizatola

sesh

I think you need to stop talking to him and finally hear what he has said so far. Hear it - without analyzing it, without overthinking it, without getting emotional over it.
Just try to hear it as it was said to someone else. Than would you want to continue that conversation? Would you want to stick around any longer?

IMHO, you need to stop focusing on him, and start focusing on yourself. That is where all the answers are - inside of you, - you that is lost in the madness of someone else's alcoholism and craziness.

I believe the most harmful thing codies do is trying to fix and control everything and everyone but themselves.
You need to know that:
nothing changes if nothing changes (and that means you) and
you can't move forward unless you let go.

IMHO what you're doing right now is trying to rationally understand something that is not rational (by the way that is definition of absurd).

I wish you well

dandylion

Dear Liz, I would like to add this to my previous response to this post.

I honestly believe, that, for you, the crucial "tipping point" will come when your husband reaches financial collapse. The "catastrophy" that provides motivation for change.

dandylion

DefofLov

Liz,

I just wanted to show support for you. I'm sorry you are going through this. My last relationship was with a "recovering" drug addict who refused to go to NA or AA.

Eventually, I just could not hear his nonsense anymore. He would ramble to me about the changes he needed to make and he was always the victim. I'm not sure what snapped in me but my mind kept floating away. Sometimes I'd be so far gone he'd finally be like..."um..hello?" And I'd realize he was talking to me and be like,"oh. You were talking to me...I'm sorry, my mind was elsewhere."

I just shut down and I felt this pull to return to myself. I needed me so badly. I kept drifting away from him and eventually I was gone. I thank my HP for pulling me away from that situation and pushing me into Al-Anon. That is the only thing I can think of that made my mind drift away during his quacking episodes. I was not trying to be rude, I just knew it was a bunch of garbage and I just couldn't listen to it anymore.

I hope my post helped in some way. I'm wishing you well and praying for you.

Love and Light,

Lily

Lulu39

My arse-hole says that too. I tell him that most women only sleep with men that they like and who treat them nicely: "I don't like you and you don't like me. If you want sex with a woman who doesn't like you, go to a brothel."

Learn2Live

AXBF's way of living (chaotic), way of thinking (dysfunctional), and way of relating (aggressive) became the way I lived my life. In my own house. He would SAY one thing, which has been explained to me by his family as "what he thinks you want to hear), and then just go about his business doing whatever he damn well pleased. No matter what I said I wanted or needed or thought. They have their own motivations and yes, hidden agendas, and my thinking, motivations, and desires just do not match up to his. It's really difficult to live with people like this. People so mired in sickness that being around them makes you sick too. Scary part is, I did not have the boundaries or assertiveness to keep that sickness out. I simply fell into that old role of mine, caretaker. Silent, quiet, accommodating good girl doormat so confused and discombobulated from the chaos of the A I could see nothing else. Not even my self.

lizatola

This is pretty much it. After last night's blow out he has decided that he's coming with us on a day trip to the mountains. I am allowing it because our son wants him to come along. It seems that he really likes to turn every conversation around to our s*x life when I'm sitting there trying to deal with his craziness and address the drinking. DUH, so stupid of me. wish me luck today.

LaTeeDa

Classic power struggle dynamics. You continue trying to get him to see things your way, he continues to try and convince you that you are wrong. And around and around and around it goes. Both people trying their best to "win." There are no winners here, only pain and suffering and madness. I was in the same power struggle with my AH for years. It only ended when I stopped trying to convince him I was right. I knew I was right and it stopped mattering whether he agreed or not.

I also thought a counselor would help me "win." He thought the same thing. Needless to say, it was a waste of time and money.

I still remember the day he told me "you can't tell me what to do, I'll drink if I want." And I told him "you're right, go ahead, and I will do what I want." And I meant it. He was speechless. And it was over for me.

L

fourmaggie

I just feel bad that we all have these memories because of the As in our life...sometimes even now(3 years later) its still raw....

i hate addictions also!!

fourmaggie

i am single...i get this SHIFT BLAMING all the time why the man have affairs...

fourmaggie

(your did sum up what my WORDS needed to say...)

LaTeeDa

Oh, and I wanted to add that I did "win" a few times. Temporarily. He quit drinking a few times. The longest was about four months. Did I get what I wanted for four months? Well, you would think so. Really what I got was angry, resentful, nasty mean AH because he hated me for "making him" stop drinking.

It's easy for me to see all this from where I sit--six years out. But, I know how hard it is from where you are. And I also know how much you want to think he is different, you are different, your relationship is different. I wanted to think that, too.

((((()))))

L

lizatola

Thanks so much for sharing, L. Yes it is hard. And, yes, I want to think our relationship is different. I have a feeling he's in angry, resentful, nasty mean land because I told him I'd separate if he continues to drink. My boundary, but I don't think HE sees it that way.

Tuffgirl

I wanted my marriage to be different too. And like others here have shared - its still very raw.

But in the end, once I started really hearing what he was saying (words AND actions) and how he acted toward everyone/thing else in his life, I had to accept that he is what anvil describes above. He was mad ALL THE TIME, it just presented itself differently based on the situation.

He also seemed to think people were angry/mean/hostile toward HIM a lot...I once said "I don't think other people really think about you much at all" and he looked most confused by that. Imagine holding the perspective that the world is a mean hostile place that one must protect himself from ALL THE TIME. No wonder he drank. I do not share that same world view.

Have you read "Under the Influence" yet? It was incredibly helpful in understanding this kind of stuff is very normal and classic to most addicts. And this thread link popped up again yesterday, also a good read: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ddicts-do.html.

Liz, I hope your situation turns out differently. I wish mine had. And like all of us here, you have your own timeframe and process, but do file this thread content away for future reference. These same folks said the same things to me last spring; it was hard to hear and I wanted to believe that my situation would be different. But in the end, these folks were right, and here I am, on the other end of it all, nodding my head and thanking the same ladies today for the same posts they left for me a year ago.

m1k3

Hi Liz. ((((hugs))))

I think one of the biggest things that helped me when I was going through similar issues was that marriage is not a mutual suicide pact.

Your friend,