Told AH...
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Told AH...
that he is not invited to my brother's wedding in July- at my brother's request. He wanted to talk to me today about arrangements for staying for the weekend and it provided an opportunity to tell him what I've been avoiding saying.
I felt AWFUL telling him but knew I had to. He did not believe me that it was my brother's request that he not come and told me that the only reason brother X did not want him there must be because I've poisoned my family against him. I said I was sorry he felt that way and simply said that I'd never lied to him and did not plan to start now and that no, I had not vilified him to my family.
The brother whose wedding this is is the one who works with AH and who told me on Easter that he didn't like who AH had become at work and that it was increasingly awkward to deal with their mutual colleagues bc AH keeps embarrassing himself.
So, it sucked to have to say that to AH (that he would not be joining the girls and I) and I almost wish he would have gotten angry instead of looking like a sad puppy who had just been kicked in the gut... I was prepared for angry AH but not for sad AH.
I know I "shouldn't" feel bad for AH. I'm not sure I feel bad for him as much as I am just sad for us all about the whole situation. AH has one brother who he is not close with and from the time we started dating he and my brothers (there are 4 of them) became very close. They've gone on boys weekends together, they all played on a men's league soccer team together, AH was really like a 5th brother to them and it was nice for me to have my husband be so close with my family-- it was just nice. So, while I've felt for a while like there was a strain among them all, this wedding dis-invitation kind of made it very tangible and maybe the problem is that I'm having trouble accepting that not only has AH's alcoholism ruined the marriage I wanted to have, but it's also ruined the friendship that I know meant a lot to my brothers for many years. Right now the memories I have of the 5 of them being together or any of the things my FOO did with AH and I are bittersweet-- there were many many good times and it's just sad to see what all those relationships have now become...
On a positive note, at least I took the bull by the horns and told him and did so unemotionally and simply and didn't apologize or blame myself for my brother's choice... I don't know whether I would have wanted him to join me had my brother invited him as well so in a lot of ways my brother made this an easy decision for me...
I felt AWFUL telling him but knew I had to. He did not believe me that it was my brother's request that he not come and told me that the only reason brother X did not want him there must be because I've poisoned my family against him. I said I was sorry he felt that way and simply said that I'd never lied to him and did not plan to start now and that no, I had not vilified him to my family.
The brother whose wedding this is is the one who works with AH and who told me on Easter that he didn't like who AH had become at work and that it was increasingly awkward to deal with their mutual colleagues bc AH keeps embarrassing himself.
So, it sucked to have to say that to AH (that he would not be joining the girls and I) and I almost wish he would have gotten angry instead of looking like a sad puppy who had just been kicked in the gut... I was prepared for angry AH but not for sad AH.
I know I "shouldn't" feel bad for AH. I'm not sure I feel bad for him as much as I am just sad for us all about the whole situation. AH has one brother who he is not close with and from the time we started dating he and my brothers (there are 4 of them) became very close. They've gone on boys weekends together, they all played on a men's league soccer team together, AH was really like a 5th brother to them and it was nice for me to have my husband be so close with my family-- it was just nice. So, while I've felt for a while like there was a strain among them all, this wedding dis-invitation kind of made it very tangible and maybe the problem is that I'm having trouble accepting that not only has AH's alcoholism ruined the marriage I wanted to have, but it's also ruined the friendship that I know meant a lot to my brothers for many years. Right now the memories I have of the 5 of them being together or any of the things my FOO did with AH and I are bittersweet-- there were many many good times and it's just sad to see what all those relationships have now become...
On a positive note, at least I took the bull by the horns and told him and did so unemotionally and simply and didn't apologize or blame myself for my brother's choice... I don't know whether I would have wanted him to join me had my brother invited him as well so in a lot of ways my brother made this an easy decision for me...
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Hurray for you!
You did a good job telling him and are looking at the bright side of the situation!
That is growth.
I know it hurts to see him sad and feel the loss of the relationship between him and your family.
But you are absolutely right. This is his consequence to his actions.
You are right to keep a distance from it.
You did a good job telling him and are looking at the bright side of the situation!
That is growth.
I know it hurts to see him sad and feel the loss of the relationship between him and your family.
But you are absolutely right. This is his consequence to his actions.
You are right to keep a distance from it.
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Originally Posted by nodaybut2day 
Wow WTBH...you handled that so well! I can only imagine how heart-breaking it must haven been to witness his reaction, but even so, you didn't buckle. Congrats.
EVERYTHING in me today wants to reach out to him and say I'm sorry I told him he can't come and to say that maybe I misinterpreted my brother and that it's okay for him to come... I want to do something to make it better (for me-- I don't like how I feel-- whether he's an A or not and whether I "should" care or not I DO care that he is hurting-- I am thinking about how I'd feel in that situation and it would be awful).
Despite having the above feelings I KNOW it's co-dependency rearing its head that makes me feel this, I KNOW it's unhealthy and more importantly I WON'T act on how I feel... But it hurts to feel it.
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Yes, I know that for me, part of conquering my codependency was letting go of the notion that I could/should protect my XAH from the consequences of his own actions. I generally don't like to see people suffer and I'm so used to trying to save them from that that i don't realize that perhaps they need to go through what they are going through...
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Thank you for posting that, wanttobehealthy, I really needed the inspiration tonight. 
The only thing sadder than feeling like your own relationship is deteriorating, is watching your partner ruin his close relationships with everyone else he is close to.
I'm still stuck on trying to "save" my AP from the consequences of his actions. I'm just so scared he will become one of those faceless men on the street that have no one, and he has such a beautiful soul when he isn't drinking, I don't want that to happen to him.
But I don't want to turn such a positive post (which it is, I really admire you for how you handled that situation and hope to be in your position one day), so thank you again for posting this.
The only thing sadder than feeling like your own relationship is deteriorating, is watching your partner ruin his close relationships with everyone else he is close to.
I'm still stuck on trying to "save" my AP from the consequences of his actions. I'm just so scared he will become one of those faceless men on the street that have no one, and he has such a beautiful soul when he isn't drinking, I don't want that to happen to him.
But I don't want to turn such a positive post (which it is, I really admire you for how you handled that situation and hope to be in your position one day), so thank you again for posting this.
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I am sorry. My XH has turned out to be such a sad, depressed case. he always was, probably, but it's easy for me to feel sorry for him when I know that his life is pitiful.
It's easier to stick to my guns (emotionally - we do not really interact) when he is angry at me. Then I know why I don't live with him anymore. But when he's sad and I can see how much he's lost and for once, it seems like maybe he does too? That is hard on me.
I'm kind of struggling with this myself right now, too.
It wasn't your decision, and honestly, maybe you should direct any questions or conversations about it to your brother from now on? Take yourself out of the middle of it?
It's easier to stick to my guns (emotionally - we do not really interact) when he is angry at me. Then I know why I don't live with him anymore. But when he's sad and I can see how much he's lost and for once, it seems like maybe he does too? That is hard on me.
I'm kind of struggling with this myself right now, too.
It wasn't your decision, and honestly, maybe you should direct any questions or conversations about it to your brother from now on? Take yourself out of the middle of it?
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tinabanina- you aren't turning the post at all-- and please don't think too highly of how i handled things-- i am feeling like i'm back at square one right now. i thought that when i started making changes and taking hard steps to do things differently the feelings would not still be crummy and i'm a little caught off guard by how much it hurts still...
i completely agree that the only thing sadder than seeing your own relationship end is seeing how your partner ruins his r/ships with everyone else-- including his kids...
ndbt-like you i don't like to see anyone suffer-- whether they deserve it or not... i guess taken to an extreme that's become my own addiction, but somewhere in the middle is okay and i think that's always going to be a part of me... some of us are just born "bleeding heart liberals" (as AH has told me many a time i am!)
i completely agree that the only thing sadder than seeing your own relationship end is seeing how your partner ruins his r/ships with everyone else-- including his kids...
ndbt-like you i don't like to see anyone suffer-- whether they deserve it or not... i guess taken to an extreme that's become my own addiction, but somewhere in the middle is okay and i think that's always going to be a part of me... some of us are just born "bleeding heart liberals" (as AH has told me many a time i am!)
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You are in Alanon...
...Tina, and one of the things it teaches is you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.
Stop trying to save him. Period. Especially from the consequences of his actions. It is the single worst thing you could possibly do, and if he's going to find recovery at all you are making it take longer by doing so.
That's exactly what this post is about. Somebody not being saved from the consequences of their actions, but instead suffering them. WTBH is demonstrating this in real life by sharing this wonderful post.
You know this. Now stop "saving." It's not saving at all. It's digging the hole deeper. Stop digging.
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
P.s. If you come to a forum you are going to get advice and opinions. It's part of the deal. I want you to stay here, but you need to know if you do you are going to get advice and opinions.
Stop trying to save him. Period. Especially from the consequences of his actions. It is the single worst thing you could possibly do, and if he's going to find recovery at all you are making it take longer by doing so.
That's exactly what this post is about. Somebody not being saved from the consequences of their actions, but instead suffering them. WTBH is demonstrating this in real life by sharing this wonderful post.
You know this. Now stop "saving." It's not saving at all. It's digging the hole deeper. Stop digging.
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
P.s. If you come to a forum you are going to get advice and opinions. It's part of the deal. I want you to stay here, but you need to know if you do you are going to get advice and opinions.
Originally Posted by tinabanina
Thank you for posting that, wanttobehealthy, I really needed the inspiration tonight.
The only thing sadder than feeling like your own relationship is deteriorating, is watching your partner ruin his close relationships with everyone else he is close to.
I'm still stuck on trying to "save" my AP from the consequences of his actions. I'm just so scared he will become one of those faceless men on the street that have no one, and he has such a beautiful soul when he isn't drinking, I don't want that to happen to him.
But I don't want to turn such a positive post (which it is, I really admire you for how you handled that situation and hope to be in your position one day), so thank you again for posting this.
The only thing sadder than feeling like your own relationship is deteriorating, is watching your partner ruin his close relationships with everyone else he is close to.
I'm still stuck on trying to "save" my AP from the consequences of his actions. I'm just so scared he will become one of those faceless men on the street that have no one, and he has such a beautiful soul when he isn't drinking, I don't want that to happen to him.
But I don't want to turn such a positive post (which it is, I really admire you for how you handled that situation and hope to be in your position one day), so thank you again for posting this.
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It wasn't your decision, and honestly, maybe you should direct any questions or conversations about it to your brother from now on? Take yourself out of the middle of it?
Growing up I was the cause of all problems in my parent's marriage, my family, etc... (according to my mother and my siblings played along to keep themselves safe). My brother whose wedding it is still throws this kind of crap at me when I don't tolerate his passive aggressive behavior. I know he ought to have been the one to tell AH but I decided I didn't want to deal with the wrath from him if I told him that. I guess that's enabling in a way? But since I have to go to the wedding I didn't want to deal with my entire family being pissed off at me for "making brother x uncomfortable".
Not really the healthiest move on my part but it was kind of a 'choose the better of two evils' for the purposes of self preservation. I feel much better equipped to deal with AH's reaction than I do regarding my FOO.
I'm going to keep my therapist in business for life at this rate!
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Originally Posted by Cyranoak
...and one of the things it teaches is you didnt' cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.
Stop trying to save him. Period. Especially from the consequences of his actions. It is the single worst thing you could possible do, and if he's going to find recovery at all you are making it take longer by doing so.
That's exactly what this post is about. Somebody not being saved from the consequences of their actions. WTBH is demonstrating this in real life.
You know this. Now stop "saving." It's not saving at all. It's digging the hole deeper. Stop digging.
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
P.s. If you come to a forum you are going to get advice and opinions. It's part of the deal. I want you to stay here, but you need to know if you do you are going to get advice and opinions. It's part of the deal.
Stop trying to save him. Period. Especially from the consequences of his actions. It is the single worst thing you could possible do, and if he's going to find recovery at all you are making it take longer by doing so.
That's exactly what this post is about. Somebody not being saved from the consequences of their actions. WTBH is demonstrating this in real life.
You know this. Now stop "saving." It's not saving at all. It's digging the hole deeper. Stop digging.
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
P.s. If you come to a forum you are going to get advice and opinions. It's part of the deal. I want you to stay here, but you need to know if you do you are going to get advice and opinions. It's part of the deal.
Don't get me wrong, I understand by posting here I will get advice and opinions, that's one of the biggest reasons as to why I started posting here and will continue to post here. I know the swallowing the truth is hard at the best of times... but I am SR.com because I not only want to read people's experiences, but I want (and NEED) the opinion of people who have been there or are experiencing it right now.
It is more the people that don't bother to do ANY research about the disease, that don't understand what is is truly like to be in my position but continue to rattle off advice (a lot, if not all, of the people I am close to have no experience dealing with an alcoholic, or the kind of relationship I am in with my partner).
Again, I understand it is coming from a place of concern, but getting told "you aren't doing enough... you are doing too much... his parents aren't doing enough, you should get them to help him more.. you should help him more... etc, etc.." every day is just making me frustrated.
Just one more thing (sorry, wanttobehealthy, I don't mean to ring-in on your thread), I do understand that this thread is about about not saving... which is what I am appreciating and admiring wanttobehealthy for, however if I am going to help myself, I have to start with being honest about how I am feeling and what I am doing, even if it is the wrong thing (which I know is, but old habits diehard... I'm definitely a work in progress)... but I do want to get to doing the right thing.
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Originally Posted by tinabanina
It is more the people that don't bother to do ANY research about the disease, that don't understand what is is truly like to be in my position but continue to rattle off advice (a lot, if not all, of the people I am close to have no experience dealing with an alcoholic, or the kind of relationship I am in with my partner).
Again, I understand it is coming from a place of concern, but getting told "you aren't doing enough... you are doing too much... his parents aren't doing enough, you should get them to help him more.. you should help him more... etc, etc.." every day is just making me frustrated.
Again, I understand it is coming from a place of concern, but getting told "you aren't doing enough... you are doing too much... his parents aren't doing enough, you should get them to help him more.. you should help him more... etc, etc.." every day is just making me frustrated.
I have stopped talking to people who don't "get" alcoholism. All that happened when I did was I'd spin my wheels trying to get them to understand and be upset that they didn't. And to be fair, I didn't "get" alcoholism until recently even though I've lived with it for 10+ yrs, so how I can I expect people not dealing with it or people who choose to be in denial (hello in laws!) to "get it". I'd LOVE to have a wider group of face to face people to talk to who are already my close friends and who really "get" it... but wanting that and trying to get it from places I know I can't just makes me more miserable than I was to begin with...
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Well done!
I have similar feelings. I've been divorced for over a year now and even just this weekend I had to let go, not respond, not rescue. It was easier then in the past when I'd be so distraught wondering what to do but it still felt bad. I know I can't go down that path or I'll get lost. To not respond to someone reaching out is hard and maybe I'll be able to do it someday, but not today, and while I feel mean I realize that I have to take care of me first.
I have similar feelings. I've been divorced for over a year now and even just this weekend I had to let go, not respond, not rescue. It was easier then in the past when I'd be so distraught wondering what to do but it still felt bad. I know I can't go down that path or I'll get lost. To not respond to someone reaching out is hard and maybe I'll be able to do it someday, but not today, and while I feel mean I realize that I have to take care of me first.
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I'm still stuck on trying to "save" my AP from the consequences of his actions. I'm just so scared he will become one of those faceless men on the street that have no one, and he has such a beautiful soul when he isn't drinking, I don't want that to happen to him.
Stop trying to save him. Period. Especially from the consequences of his actions. It is the single worst thing you could possibly do, and if he's going to find recovery at all you are making it take longer by doing so.
...
You know this. Now stop "saving." It's not saving at all. It's digging the hole deeper. Stop digging.
...
You know this. Now stop "saving." It's not saving at all. It's digging the hole deeper. Stop digging.
And WTBH, good work. It's a situation that's so helpful to hear about, because it really is a situation where your AH gets to face the consequences of his actions -- and one where it's also very clear that he has a choice whether to start figuring out that maybe he's got a problem or to find someone else to blame...
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Way to go, WTBH! Its hard to be the bearer of embarrassing news, the human in me (and I won't say codie here, because I think its a human trait) did not like to hurt him with the truth.
I, too, took myself out of the middle. After a few of these awkward conversations about so and so and such and such, I started telling people "you tell him that!" and quit participating as the middle man. It has helped tremendously, plus some people haven't spoken to me since and I am grateful for that as well. Boundaries can really weed out the bad stuff!
I, too, took myself out of the middle. After a few of these awkward conversations about so and so and such and such, I started telling people "you tell him that!" and quit participating as the middle man. It has helped tremendously, plus some people haven't spoken to me since and I am grateful for that as well. Boundaries can really weed out the bad stuff!
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Originally Posted by lillamy
And WTBH, good work. It's a situation that's so helpful to hear about, because it really is a situation where your AH gets to face the consequences of his actions -- and one where it's also very clear that he has a choice whether to start figuring out that maybe he's got a problem or to find someone else to blame...
Like I said, could be BS or it could be that he is seeing the consequences of his behavior a teeny bit and not blaming anyone but himself (he did try to blame me first but I didn't "bite")...
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy
I think what made me feel a bit sadder than I might otherwise have *and maybe this was quacking, who knows?* is the fact that we took the girls to the park together yesterday afternoon (after he'd been told) and he said quietly to me as we were leaving, "you know now that I think about it, brother x has looked at me almost with a look of disgust at times and I think maybe I need to think about what I've been acting like when that's happened"...
Like I said, could be BS or it could be that he is seeing the consequences of his behavior a teeny bit and not blaming anyone but himself (he did try to blame me first but I didn't "bite")...
Like I said, could be BS or it could be that he is seeing the consequences of his behavior a teeny bit and not blaming anyone but himself (he did try to blame me first but I didn't "bite")...
If I had, I would be sunk. because I would know how awful *I* feel when I have done something wrong or inconsiderate and I hate it so much myself that I never want anyone else to experience it either.
I am a first-class rescuer, and I am very lucky that I have not been given teh chance to rescue my XH. No-contact has literally saved my life by not letting my compassionate instincts overtake my cool, removed judgment.
For this, I am truly grateful to God.
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