LazaB

You beat PAWS in the past ? Can you describe your experience please ?

biminiblue

rothmaninc, sounds about right.

There was no way I could drink caffeine in early sobriety. At a year I was still drinking half-caf coffee and only one a day. No other caffeine. Caffeine Really Ramped UP my anxiety.

Your lingering anxiety issues sound a lot like my PTSD. Once I'm triggered it takes a lot of prayer and self-care exercises to, "come back down," and it was a lot worse in early sobriety. Ideally first of all I stop thinking about whatever-it-was that was the initial trigger to the current anxiety (the cut hand, the family being gone.) I do that through exercise, good nutrition, prayer, mindfulness, breathing exercises, staying busy with chores, watching a comedy. Whatever it takes.

An easily triggered nervous does get better, but I'm not sure if it goes away entirely. I'm at nine years sober and it sometimes hits me for a few hours - not days, though. At the most, one day. I try to be really mindful every morning to leave behind whatever bothered me yesterday if it's not something I have to actually DO, like, bills or whatever other daily life requirement. Staying in the moment is really all I or anyone can do.

LazaB

How much has your anxiety/PTSD situation improved compared to early sobriety ?

adair

Those waves of over-sensitivity and frustration do persist for quite some time, but both the magnitude and frequency do (eventually) decrease. It took awhile for me to stop reacting to the negative feelings when they hit. If I don't let myself get caught in the wave but am somehow able to step out of it as soon as I realize it's happening, the wave loses most of its punch. Though I can still have a bad day or two, things are nothing like they used to be. Looking back on my journal -- from 6 months, a year, 18 months ago -- my overall mental health has improved dramatically. My bottoms are not as bleak, and there are periods of days to weeks when I actually feel rather good.

This isn't a sprint, I wouldn't even say it's a marathon. It's more like a race to the top of the highest peaks on every continent. After a spell of not drinking when things first seem to be getting better, it's easy to think the race has been won, the mountain conquered, PAWS has been beaten and the hell is finally over. Nope. There are still six more mountains to climb. But each one gets a little easier. And though the journey is a long and arduous one, there are an increasing number of 'good weather days' to hold onto when things get rough.

Yes - been there, done that. The pain and agony is real and it's not going anywhere in a hurry. PAWS is devastating and should never be dismissed or trivialized. It absolutely boggles my mind how often I kept slipping up and starting over just to begin the cycle of suffering anew. Knock on wood, but maybe this time around things will stick?

Ha - I like thinking of PAWS as if it were a demon that had possessed me. Once I started to fight it, it definitely felt like it was its own, wholly-formed, independently thinking entity that was hell-bent on keeping me clutched captive in its talons.

Some context as to where I am in this journey - it's been almost 9 months since my last drink. The three sober attempts before that lasted 9 months, 5 months and six months. As my sober time mounts and my mind clears, so does my commitment to remain alcohol free. Onward, upward. At this point, doing anything that risks putting me back at base camp of that first peak is no longer an option.

rothmaninc

SPEN71 hang in there.... you are not alone....we can relate to you... hope that you feel better soon!!!

biminiblue

Well, past traumas and getting "over" them isn't a one-and-done thing, in my experience. They can't really be erased entirely.

I have intellectually made peace with the past, but I know that physiological changes happen in my body due to stressful things and that I have reactions at times. That's just the hand I've been dealt or just the way I was created, not sure which - probably both. I remember fears from when I was very small, even before bad things happened, so I believe some of it is just how the world and biological systems work. Fear is a protective response. Survival is the goal, and fear helps me avoid danger.

I try not to dwell on negativity. I try not to even give it voice, so I don't talk about it a lot. I don't think talking about the past is particularly helpful for me, but I do understand it may help someone else to know that their traumas and pain can be something to live through successfully. I now only have brief panicky moments that no one but me would even notice and I don't have to medicate them with any outside substances. Well, maybe a sleeve of cookies.

I understand that just like alcohol cravings the feelings will pass and they pass faster if I do all those self-care things I mentioned.

Caramel

^ biminiblue - important post, well-put -

BettyP

So nice to come and read a bunch of new posts and really good stuff, thank you everyone. This thread continues to save me. I have had a nasty wave for the past five or six days - it's I guess not as bad as waves in the past, but it definitely knocked me off my feet like a real wave would, and I've been tumbling around in the foam like a load of laundry. Most of this wave has been significant depression, with some peaks of unexplained (non situational) anxiety. I know intellectually that it will pass, but it's so hard to be bullied by your mind for a stretch of days. Especially when you get mostly out of the woods where I am. I'd say I'm in the tail end of that third phase - I am mostly well, but I can be activated. I liked that metaphor of climbing mountains only to see six more mountains haha - it's quite true! The last two days I've been like "I'm just going to be like this forever..." - - I need to remind myself that that's the worst PAWS symptom of them all: hopelessness.
PAWS is really unfair, you guys - it's ok to sometimes say "man, I really don't deserve this s#$t." I see a lot of progress in your posts, newcomers - you're doing great! We are here for you, and that you for being here for me too :-D

spen71

wouldn’t say I beat PAWS. It got easier as time went on. I did lots of running and sleeping

rothmaninc

BettyP So nice to come and read a bunch of new posts and really good stuff, thank you everyone. This thread continues to save me. I have had a nasty wave for the past five or six days - it's I guess not as bad as waves in the past, but it definitely knocked me off my feet like a real wave would, and I've been tumbling around in the foam like a load of laundry. Most of this wave has been significant depression, with some peaks of unexplained (non situational) anxiety. I know intellectually that it will pass, but it's so hard to be bullied by your mind for a stretch of days. Especially when you get mostly out of the woods where I am. I'd say I'm in the tail end of that third phase - I am mostly well, but I can be activated. I liked that metaphor of climbing mountains only to see six more mountains haha - it's quite true! The last two days I've been like "I'm just going to be like this forever..." - - I need to remind myself that that's the worst PAWS symptom of them all: hopelessness.
PAWS is really unfair, you guys - it's ok to sometimes say "man, I really don't deserve this s#$t." I see a lot of progress in your posts, newcomers - you're doing great! We are here for you, and that you for being here for me too :-D"

How are you currently feeling?

BettyP

Hi rothmaninc - I made it out of the wave. It was a long one! a solid 10 days, which is not "normal" for my PAWS experience, but as we know there's no rhyme or reason when it comes to this stuff. I am feeling a lot better, though. I went downtown last night and had dinner in a loud, crowded restaurant - no anxiety, no weird symptoms :-)
I read something during my wave that said not to take a setback in recovery as the truth for all of your recovery, which I definitely was doing. I got sucked into a bit of a despair pit thinking that I'll never get out of this, despite evidence that I'm absolutely recovering, and I think that really piled on my depression. When the PAWS lifted, while I was still discouraged, I was better able to process that yes that was a wave, and not evidence that I'm permanently stuck that way.
Thank you so much for checking in - how are you doing??

rothmaninc

I have been battling a wave with a couple of good days being sprinkled in with mostly not so great days. This has been going on for about 3 weeks. Prior to this wave I had bundled together several good days. The lows are a bit higher, but recently I have not experienced many highs. I am not sure if others who have experienced PAWS have had the same occur. I am always grateful for others who share here. I wish more of the people who have gone through this would write what they experienced, and when (in their recovery), they experienced said. As I have written, PAWS is so, so frustrating, (at 10 months) effecting my ability to handle stress and worry. I have teenage children so many small issues effect me more than they should. Issues that should be easy to remedy, will ruminate on bad days, but be handled in a normal fashion on good days. I have days where I wake up and feel it necessary to go back to sleep for several hours, while other days I can just get up and go. I function better when there is something to look forward to, and being busy. However, It is so hard to anticipate how I will feel for the day, which makes it difficult to plan any family activities, day trips, etc. I look forward to the future and hopes that there are many more good days ahead. BettyP, I really appreciate any feedback as to where you were at 10 months, any commonalities that you may have experienced with what I have shared. I have one other question for you, or any other member here; when did you feel excited about things, hobbies, interactions, etc that you loved prior to PAWS. As an example, we were a family that loved fishing, many days I can not imagine fishing. Other days I can. I guess this is referred to as Anhedonia. As always, I appreciate any information.
THANK YOU for helping us through this most challenging situation!

BettyP

"However, It is so hard to anticipate how I will feel for the day, which makes it difficult to plan any family activities, day trips, etc. --> I found this to be THE most frustrating part of the whole ordeal, because life is marching on whether you like or not, and there were so many events (weddings, parties, work things) that I had to cancel because I just wasn't able to get there, or had to say no to because I wasn't sure how I would feel when they actually came around.

10 months was pretty awful for me, to be honest. I felt like I clawed my way to the finish line when I got to a year, and then when I was still having PAWS after a year I went through a period of being pretty hopeless. I read somewhere (I think Benzo Buddies) someone say that between 12 and 18 months is sort of the worst because while you're not as bad as early recovery, you become convinced that you're never going to be the same person. But that does end, I promise! The anhedonia, for me, only started to lift after a year - and really more like a year and a half reliably. That was just my experience, though - you may very well turn a corner at a year. A lot of people do! But also don't feel like you're not on a normal healing pathway if you don't - I still have some gross days and I'm at a little over two and a half years, but I will say my life is INFINITELY better than it was at ten months. Your brain right now is like if you'd just had surgery and it's barely scaring over - it's still going to throb and hurt for a long time as your body does its thing.
One thing I have definitely noticed, however, is that after every wave - and especially after the bad waves - I regain some ground that I thought was gone forever. So those waves are actually your brain doing it's tinkering to fix something that was off, and when the wave recedes you'll be rewarded with a little part of yourself back :-)

adair

Yes, it does seem that the lows get higher faster than the highs get higher. Both continue to trend upwards, but in small and uneven increments.

As Betty mentioned, after each wave some ground that was lost during my drinking years is regained. My absolute bottom fills in by a foot or two and my capacity to feel content, engaged and take pleasure in things creeps forward an inch or two.

Any stress in my life greatly amplifies a wave. If I'm relatively stress-free, a wave may begin to form but will dissipate fairly quickly and pass with barely a ripple. If I'm under stress of any kind, the wave can grow and settle in for days. Trying not to react to the stressors when a wave hits helps somewhat, but depending on the circumstances it's not always easy or practical to do that.

Anhedonia definitely adds insult to injury and affects just about everything. Even when I finally stopped drinking and was working on improving my life, I couldn't even muster much excitement around that! The best thing I had done for myself in my entire life, and emotionally it brought me no real joy or satisfaction. It was just something I was doing because I had to. Crazy. In time, thankfully, anhedonia does fade and I'm more excited and inspired about my recovery and life in general than I have been in a long time.

For awhile I tried to 'fake' excitement about things and verbally talk myself up even when I wasn't feeling it. I'm not sure if that made a difference. But I do feel much better these days and hardly ever resort to faking it anymore. If there still isn't much outright joy in life, I at least find myself generally satisfied with things most of the time. Joy and pleasure will come (and there are occasional glimpses of those even now). For the moment, just feeling content and satisfied is quite the improvement over how I used to be. And I know the best is yet to come. It's just a matter of holding on tight during the bad times and leaning into the good times.

BettyP

Agreed on the anhedonia affecting early recovery. So many, MANY times I was like "I didn't stop drinking just to feel like this" - - the whole idea of getting sober was to get back to living life to the fullest. Which is not a thing when you can't experience any satisfaction, joy, anticipation, etc - - I think that probably even people who don't experience the severe symptoms of PAWS like us do experience some level of anhedonia, which makes it awfully hard to stay sober when the world seems so flat and grey all the time. It does end! The first time I knew I was going to be ok was one day I cleaned and vacuumed out my car really well and felt that "job well done" satisfaction. It'll return!

Caramel

I noticed in myself an inability to feel 'excited' about something, or to 'look forward to' things.
Possibly to do with ptsd, but all I thought I felt was slight dread.

Then just before a World Cup Final game I thought, what are you thinking? and permitted myself to thoroughly be in the moment and enjoy the prospect and the experience.

BettyP

I'm unfortunately having another pretty icky wave this last week. It's hard to not second guess myself and wonder what the heck I'm doing wrong, especially after having made so many gains. I definitely feel like "poor me what have I done to deserve this?" I'm feeling depressed and I have that sense of impending doom, and weird emptiness that is a PAWS exclusive. I'm ready to be done, god! Sigh. But I will persist. I know it's just a wave. I just wonder why I'm having these lows so far out now. I've been scrolling a lot again over at Benzo Buddies for success stories from the long haulers. It helps! But I sure am discouraged lately :-(

adair

Sorry to hear you're weathering some rough seas. Though I'm still hit by episodes of depression, anxiety, difficulty concentrating, mood swings, etc, I've now established a library of activities that help me get through an episode without reacting to it much. These days I don't even label it as anything - no matter how bad it is - I just recognize I'm having an off day and reach into my bag of tricks to help me get through it until it passes. This has proven invaluable in not letting myself sink too deep and shorten the duration of a wave.

It wasn't easy getting to this point and it took many months of concentrated effort to create a mental foundation I could build on. It started with positive affirmations, even though I've always thought such things were silly and stupid. 'I am loveable, I am happy, I am free' - I didn't believe a word of it at first - all lies! - but I've finally started to believe I actually do deserve a good life and that it's worth fighting for.

I also used to look at myself in the mirror (a struggle in and of itself as I did not like looking at myself, I was too ugly as a person) and then smile. It was forced, it felt completely unnatural and looked more like a snarl than anything else, but over months it actually started to feel natural and even a brought a tinge of happiness - maybe - when I did it. Now just the act of smiling short circuits a downward spiral and helps prevent a low from deepening too much.

I then began painstakingly recultivating a sense of enjoyment and pleasure in things I used to like to do. Most recently, I've regained the ability to lose myself in a good book. It's been 10 - 15 years since I've been able to do this. When I sit down and open the pages, hours can now pass by in a blink. By the time I set the book down, I've almost completely forgotten that I'm feeling down.

As you know from this and other forums, these waves pass and there is a better tomorrow. And you have tremendous power to make that tomorrow be what you want it to be.

CBS62

Betty I am sorry you are having some bad waves. I know you are a few months ahead of me and have had some good windows. Hopefully, a window will open up soon. It is always darkest before the dawn as they say.

Adair I like your attitude and thanks for the pointers. Good stuff to try.

I am feeling pretty good except for the persistent boaty dizziness. When I have a window from that it so far is only a day here and there where my brain/vestibular system gets it right. And it is glorious to not be rocking. But it always comes back the next day.

The anhedonia is easing up. But I still feel it. Also the health anxiety is better. But I catch myself going down that rabbit hole and try to squelch it.

I am grateful that I am very functional and able to go about my day. Unlike in early PAWS where it was hard to do anything and I did not want to get out of bed.

BettyP

Thank you both so much! Adair you're so right about having that bag of tricks to get through the wave. I hadn't been using any of them - just allowing myself to spiral out and mope around - eating sugar (definitely making it worse!). It's always a cycle with an end, I have to remember that. And thank you CB - I am reminded that when I was in earlier recovery I would have done anything to be where I am right now. Still moving forward and making progress!
Thank you both so much for the support :-)